Never heard of spiritual or spirit baptism
What are you referring to?
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Guest, Join Papa Zoom today for some uplifting biblical encouragement! --> Daily Verses
What is the rule of faith for Christians?
- Thread starter Bible
- Start date
What are you referring to?
Only one true church founded by Christ all other are founded by men and are sects tradition of men
I said Peter is the head of the church on earth, Christ the head and king but no king administers his own kingdom and Christ ascended to heaven see more below
No James was in charge of the council but the pope approves it, that’s why a pope is never in charge of a council it’s not valid until he approves it by the authority Christ gave him matt 16:18 Christ builds hos church on peter
How do you govern the church and administer the kingdom with a confession?
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23
God always establishes order in the obedience to hierarchical authority!
Matt 23 the successors of Moses had the keys of authority (open and shut) and the power to bind and loose in the seat or chair of Moses (also called a cathedral) and Christ says they MUST be obeyed!
Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Matt 17:27 Jesus and peter are one
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Isa 2221-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18
Christ founded the church on Peter!
And the apostles!
Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
You CANNOT give the keys (jurisdictional authority) to a confession but to a person! Peter
Vs 19 I give unto thee (Peter) thou shalt bind (Peter) thou shalt loose (Peter)
Only the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors and those members of Christ by faith and baptism United with them, the communion of the saints
Jn 16:10 matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23
Jn 10:16
Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The office of apostle that has the three fold office, to teach: to govern the church: and to sanctify by the sacraments or sacred oaths (promises) of the father! Acts 2:38-39 with ez 36:25-27 Heb 8:6
Teaching authority of Peter and the apostles and their successors!
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles
1 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Jude 1: 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
The holy church does not usurp Christ’s authority, the holy church establishes it throughout the whole world, and thru all time!
The holy apostles do not usurp Christ’s kingdom, the apostles administer the kingdom for Christ who ascended to heaven!
Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...
Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Example Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him. Gen 37
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Obedience to Joseph is obedience to pharaoh!
Obedience to Peter and the Apostles is obedience to Christ!
Lk 10:16 he who hears you hears me!
How do you give jurisdictional authority to a confession? (Keys of the kingdom)
How do you give a confession the power to bind and loose?
also have to explain
Isa 22:21-22
Matt 16:18
Matt 28:19
Jn 20:21-23
Eph 2:20
Matt 23
God always establishes order in the obedience to hierarchical authority!
Matt 23 the successors of Moses had the keys of authority (open and shut) and the power to bind and loose in the seat or chair of Moses (also called a cathedral) and Christ says they MUST be obeyed!
Taken from them matt 21:43 given to Peter matt 16:18 and the apostles Matt 18:18 Jn 20:21-23 eph 2:20
Matthew 5:14-16
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.
Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
Lk 22:32
Jesus prays for Peter:
Matt 17:27 Jesus and peter are one
Jn 21:17
Peter commanded to Feed my sheep:
Isa 2221-22 prime minister called father!
Holding the keys of the kingdom under the king Lk 1:32-33 in the line of david!
Matt 16:18
Christ founded the church on Peter!
And the apostles!
Matt 16:18 eph 2:20 Jn 20:21-23
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
You CANNOT give the keys (jurisdictional authority) to a confession but to a person! Peter
Vs 19 I give unto thee (Peter) thou shalt bind (Peter) thou shalt loose (Peter)
Only the one true church founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles and their successors and those members of Christ by faith and baptism United with them, the communion of the saints
Jn 16:10 matt 16:18 18:18 Jn 20:21-23
Jn 10:16
Ephesians 5:32
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
The office of apostle that has the three fold office, to teach: to govern the church: and to sanctify by the sacraments or sacred oaths (promises) of the father! Acts 2:38-39 with ez 36:25-27 Heb 8:6
Teaching authority of Peter and the apostles and their successors!
Acts 2:42 doctrine of the apostles
1 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
Jude 1: 17 But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ;
The holy church does not usurp Christ’s authority, the holy church establishes it throughout the whole world, and thru all time!
The holy apostles do not usurp Christ’s kingdom, the apostles administer the kingdom for Christ who ascended to heaven!
Ephesians 3:21
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.
Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ...
Christ and His church are one, what Christ did the church continues to do, the church is an extension of Christ!
To attack the church is to attack Christ!
Acts 9:4
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Example Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him. Gen 37
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Obedience to Joseph is obedience to pharaoh!
Obedience to Peter and the Apostles is obedience to Christ!
Lk 10:16 he who hears you hears me!
Then you must submit and obey Christ and his ministers in his absence
Spiritual Fathers have care for our souls!
Acts 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
Jn 21:17 feed my sheep:
Heb 13:7 Remember them which have the rule over you, who have spoken unto you the word of God: whose faith follow, considering the end of their conversation.
Heb 13:17 Obey them that have the rule over you, and submit yourselves: for they care for your souls, as they that must give account, that they may do it with joy, and not with grief: for that is unprofitable for you.
1 Tim 1:2 Unto Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.
Gal 4:19 My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you
1 John 2
My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.
That makes Paul and John spiritual fathers, pastors of our souls!
What do you mean?
There was no PLACE where the early Christians met?
Christians just wandered about as believers?
As to the second paragraph....
Men rule churches (denominations).
Men are imperfect creatures.
It's a miracle ANY denomination has existed and is truly a sign of God's existence.
A catechumen is someone who wants to study the Catholic religion.
The word Catechism is in there if you notice.
The bible determines who is saved.....
the letters and gospels were written so that man may be saved by learning how.
A person becomes Christian when he:
1. Becomes aware of the existence of God.
2. Desires to worship that God.
3. God makes the first move by revealing Himself - and this from the beginning of time.
4. God gives the gift of faith to those that seek Him.
5. That person is now justified before God.
6. A justified person is a saved person.
7. The person is either already baptized or becomes baptized.
The Catholic church requires that a person that is not baptized and confirmed in that church to receive teaching which is
RCIA -- Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults.
If that person died they would be saved.
God makes the rules as to who is saved or not...not the CC.
Agreed 100% as to your base explanation of the major covenants.
You must be familiar with Scott Hahn....
My point remains, however. A Covenant is made with man and not with a church.
How do you understand John 10:16?
Jesus is saying that not only the Jews are His sheep,,,,but the Gentiles will be called also.
You're confirming that the Body of Christ is one....that His church is One...
NO MATTER THE DENOMINATION.
We don't have to die.
It is written..."And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?" (John 11:26)
I will live forever...with a new glorified body.
The root is instruction Lk 1:4
The church was, and the church is necessary for salvation, the church write the New Testament
Baptism is justification never “faith alone”
“Faith alone” is a condemned heresy
Christ and his church are one acts 9:4
Authority of the Apostles!
What authority does Christ have?
What power does Christ have?
What mission / ministry does Christ have?
Peter, the apostles and their successors have the same authority, power, and mission! Jn 20:21 as my father sent me, even so send I you!
The apostles are Christ’s successors!
They have authority to send others as well, apostle means one who is sent!
Therefore the apostles have authority to send more apostles or successors!
Apostolic succession!
The nations still need to be taught, disciples still need to be baptized and the church the new covenant kingdom of christ still needs to be governed!
Hebrews 3:1
Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
Christ is an apostle, and has authority to send other apostles, the apostles also have this authority, so the apostles continue down thru the centuries as Christ promised! Matt 28:19-20
Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22
Moral authority:
(Teaching)
Necessity of being taught by Christ:
Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.
Jurisdictional authority:
(Governing / administering)
Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.
Spiritual authority:
(Life of Grace)
Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments
The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4
Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42
Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20
Lk 10:16
He who hears you hears me...
John 13:20
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13
The teaching of Peter and the apostles and successors is the teaching of Christ!
You have provided all the answers to your questions in your own post.
(My point is that the church is the covenant, we are united in Christ thru baptism in the new covenant church)
No there is only one church founded by Christ on Peter matt 16:18 all others are sects found by the tradition of men
You have turned Peter into a false idol to be worshipped and credited with the creation of a new church.
How?
Only God may be worshiped
Christ is the only one who has authority to found a church and no man
Peter is only prime minister
He governs the church
He administers the kingdom under christ
Read Isa 22:21-22
Jn 1:5 apart from me you can do nothing
Ephesians 5:24
Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ…
You are throwing gas on the fire.
"He governs the church."
"He administers the kingdom under Christ."
That is idolatry.
Peter is awaiting the resurrection from a grave.
Example of Joseph under pharaoh administers the kingdom and his brothers obeyed and submitted to him. Gen 37
Gen 37:7 For, behold, we were binding sheaves in the field, and, lo, my sheaf arose, and also stood upright; and, behold, your sheaves stood round about, and made obeisance to my sheaf.
8 And his brethren said to him, Shalt thou indeed reign over us? or shalt thou indeed have dominion over us? And they hated him yet the more for his dreams, and for his words.
9 And he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me.
Obedience to Joseph is obedience to pharaoh!
Obedience to Peter and the Apostles is obedience to Christ!
Peter was a servant.
That is all.
Soul sleep really?
No I am referring to peter when he was alive and his valid successors
Do the apostles have the ministry of reconciliation or only Christ?
The church is a royal kingdom which demands obedience to hierarchical authority or there will be no order only chaos and spiritual anarchy
Not familiar with the term "soul sleep", but it is as Martha told Jesus concerning Lazarus..."Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day." (John 11:24)
Scripturally speaking, it would seem that James was pre-eminent among the apostles.
Having the final word in Acts 15 and Acts 21.
Paul also refers to him prominently in Gal 1 and 2.
By assigning Peter some arguable title, you omit the actual "rock" the real church was founded on.
That being that Jesus was the Son of God.
As it is written..."He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." (Matt 16:15-18)