What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"What is absolutely clear is that eternal life is a gift of God. And that God's gifts are irrevocable. Rom 6:23, 11:29"

No, its not clear, and doesn't exist, which is why you refuse to write out the scripture, and the context.

What makes not "writing out the Scripture" not make my statement not true?

I gave the verses that prove my statement.

I said this: What is absolutely clear is that eternal life is a gift of God. This is Rom 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So, what in my statement isn't either clear or what Rom 6:23 also SAYS?

Then, I said this: God's gifts are irrevocable. This is Rom 11:29 - for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

So, what in my statement isn't either clear or what Rom 11:29 also SAYS?

It seems to me that both Rom 6:23 and 11:29 are being ignored by LOS doctrine. There is nothing in either context that removes the clear meaning of each verse that eternal life is irrevocable.

This has been pointed out to you, but you continue to ignore that the whole scripture and the context that are needed to insure we are rightly dividing the word, and applying the contextual support, that we may both learn and teach sound doctrine.

Here is what Romans 6:22-23 says.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

Nothing here changes anything that I've said. How does v.22 support that notion that eternal life isn't irrevocable?

Paul points out that the end result of a life whose fruit is unto holiness is everlasting life, having become a slave to God.

This interpretation is in direct contrast to what Jesus said in Jn 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Now, let's follow the red words: he who believes HAS eternal life. Have I said anything different than that? Jesus said these words, yet your statement implies that one doesn't HAVE eternal life until the end of their life. How does your statement agree with Jesus'? I don't see how.

Then he warns... the wages of sin, a sinful lifestyle [a life of practicing sin], is death.

One needs to understand the various meanings of "death" and quit defaulting to "spiritual/eternal death" every time the word comes up. Until that occurs, one will not be able to understand verses where "death" means anything other than "spiritual/eternal death".

Then he says... but the gift of God is eternal life IN Christ Jesus.

Yes he does. And I've NEVER ignored that very important FACT. In FACT, I've supported that with Eph 1:13,14, 4:30, 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.

When a person believes, they are sealed with the Holy Spirit, and placed IN Christ. And that seal is FOR the day of redemption.

AND, there are NO verses teaching that this seal can be broken for any reason. Yet LOS doctrine teaches that there are many things that can break this seal so that God's promise and guarantee will NOT come to pass.

We can not expect to have eternal life apart from Christ, who is the source of eternal life.

And I've never said otherwise.

This is easily understood from a reading of the previous verse.... But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

Jesus told us that when one believes, they HAVE (present tense) eternal life. His teaching is FAR different than yours.

However, when we go back just a little further, this understanding is further expounded for all who are willing to read and believe what Paul said.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

All these verses are about how one lives their lives. They either obey God, or their own sin nature, which leads to loss of fellowship.

 

[FreeGrace]

from JLB:

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

You is clear as it refers to the Christians whom Paul was addressing.

What continues to be misunderstood is how Paul was using "death" here. No one has proven that he meant spiritual death, and I submit that he couldn't have said that because he SAID that eternal life is a gift of God, and then he SAID that God's gifts are irrevocable.

[edited]

Those who practice sin, and become a slave to sin, will in the end receive the wages of eternal death.

Those who practice righteousness, and become a slave unto God, will in the end receive everlasting life, which is a gift from God.

Nope. This passage certainly does NOT teach that.

If one receives eternal life on the basis of "practicing righteousness", then one is saved on the basis of their own lifestyle. That is not grace and I cannot understand why that is not clearly understood by all.

Doesn't Eph 2:8-9 clearly teach differently than your conclusion here? Those verses say that we are saved by grace through faith, and NOT of ourselves. It is NOT of works, lest anyone should boast.

Paul taught totally different than your views. In fact, they are in opposition to your views.

Here are both scriptures, you keep referring to and try to put half of one together with half of the other, to attempt to form your doctrine.

Is this a denial that eternal life is a gift of God? Rom 6:23
Is this a denial that God's gifts are irrevocable? Rom 11:29
Is this a denial that Jesus taught that those who believe HAVE in the present tense eternal life? Jn 5:24
Is this a denial that those who are given eternal life will never perish? John 10:28

Please address these questions, because from what all that has been posted, it seems to me that these 4 verses are being denied.

I don't understand how LOS doctrine can square with these verses.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 6:29

Both verses speak of God's gifts. The first one describes eternal life as a gift of God. The second one tells us that God's gifts are irrevocable.

And, there are NO verses that teach that Paul excluded the gift of eternal life from the gifts that are irrevocable.

A reading of the context, of both Romans 11 and Romans 6 must be taken into consideration.

Here are some points we must consider from just these scriptures, as well.

• It is both the gifts and calling that Paul says are irrevocable.
• the gift of eternal life is "in" Christ Jesus our Lord.
• Irrevocable in it's original form must be taken into consideration, as it's meaning is different that the modern term.
• The wages of sin is death, and must be reconciled together with the gift of God of eternal life in Christ, in context.

JLB

The first point refutes LOS doctrine. God's gifts are irrevocable. Eternal life is one of God's gifts.
The second point tells us who HAS the gift of eternal life; which is those who have believed and have been placed IN CHRIST, according to Eph 1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise

It's very clear; having believed, the believer is sealed IN HIM. Done deal.

LOS doctrine cannot provide any verse that teaches that this seal can be broken FOR ANY REASON.

The third point is false because the word "irrevocable" is found in Greek lexicons, along with "unrepented of".
The fourth point is irrelevant because of misunderstanding of the word "death". It has NOT been proven that Paul was referring to spiritual/eternal death.

I believe that points 3 and 4 are just excuses to not accept what is clearly stated: eternal life is a gift of God and God's gifts are irrevocable, proving that eternal life is irrevocable.

Unless LOS doctrine can point to any verse that teaches that Paul never included the gift of eternal life as irrevocable gifts of God, AND that the sealing with the Holy Spirit can be broken FOR ANY REASON, there is no reason for me to accept LOS doctrine.

I have shown from Scripture that the Bible teaches the opposite. No one can lose salvation. No verse says so.

 

[chessman]

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

God will destroy him... is crystal clear.

• The work, as Paul has stated is the people. Are you not my work in the Lord?

Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1​

​

On your view are the saved people of Corith Paul's or God's? You keep posting v3:17 as if it somehow proves your case here. It doesn't. It proves you're case is wrong. The Holy people belong to God, not Paul. Clear as day. And Paul is well aware of that fact. Paul doesn't make them holy, God does.

That's what happens when you take a Scripture like 1 cor 9:1 out of it's intended context and insert it just any ole where you like. There are two different discussions going on in chapter 3 versus chapter 9. Chapter 9 is Paul telling them they are his occupation/work, not that they belong to him. He'd already told them they belong to God.

Also, is it your view that when Paul said "God will destroy him" in 3:17 that what Paul really meant (but didn't say) was that God would 'de-save him and send him to Hell' or something to that effect? You do realize that the word destroy doesn't mean to de-save and/or sentence someone to Hell, right?

 

[FreeGrace]

it's good for us to read and apply scripture in it's context.

That is my sincere hope.

These verse's were spoken to His disciples, who heard His Voice, and followed Him throughout Israel... they knew Him.

Judas Iscariot is a good example of believing and following Him for a while.

Actually, not. There is no verse that indicates that he ever believed in Jesus as Messiah. He was an opportunist to the core.

In fact, consider John 6:64 - “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

This is quite clear: Jesus knew from the beginning who didn't believe and who would betray Him.

So, why betrayed Him? Judas. In the same breath, Jesus mentioned those who "didn't believe" and would "betray Him". Judas fits that statement.

Those who believe are given eternal life.

Yes, and eternal life is a gift of God, AND God's gifts (no exceptions) are irrevocable. There has been NO evidence from Scripture that any of God's gifts aren't irrevocable.

Those who believe for a while, then longer believe, have disqualified themselves for the required believing to receive eternal life, since they no longer believe. see Like 8:12-13

This may be your opinion, but there are no verses that state this. But apparently LOS doctrine thinks there are verses that state this, so what are those verses? Please don't cite or quote Luke 8:13, because is SAYS NOTHING about disqualifying oneself from receiving eternal life by ceasing to believe.

Furthermore, your statement "have disqualified themselves for the required believing to receive eternal life" is false from the start because Jesus taught in Jn 5:24 that those who believe HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

And your statement is in relation to Luke 8:13, where those who have believed cease to believe. They have ALREADY received the gift of eternal life, which is irrevocable, and Jesus promises that those who He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

So, ceasing to believe doesn't change one's saved status.

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you.27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. John 10:25-29

The qualification of those who are given eternal life, and will never perish.

The qualification for receiving eternal life in THAT context is found in v.9: those who enter through the door (Christ) are saved. Jesus used a metaphor that He is the door to the sheep, and all who enter through Him, the door, will be saved.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish;

Except this is NOT the qualification for receiving eternal life. v.9 defines the qualification for being saved.

Those who know Him have eternal life.
Those who know Him for a while have eternal life for a while.

Please either cite or quote ANY verse that speaks of having eternal life FOR A WHILE.

Those who believe are saved.
Those who believe for a while, are saved for a while.

Please either cite or quote ANY verse that speaks of being saved FOR A WHILE.

Unless there are verses that actually speak of having eternal life for a while or being saved for a while, I wouldn't make that assumption.

If there are any verses that do speak of those, then I will accept it.

 

[MarkT]

"...each will receive his own reward according to his own labor. 9For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:8-16 NASB)

Let's take this puppy apart and discern what each builder's work is that Paul says may or may not get burned up when the quality of that work is tested by fire. Lot's of questions to ask in this tiny piece of scripture.

What is God's building that God's fellow workers work on?
What is it's foundation?
Who laid it there in Corinth?
Who is building on it?
What is the fire that will test the quality of each man's work on the building, and what is the 'day' that reveals the outcome of the testing by fire?

The church is God's building. Paul called Apollos his fellow worker. Paul planted. Apollos watered.
The foundation of the house is the doctrine of Christ.
Paul laid the doctrine of Christ.
Each man builds on it.
The fire is the wrath of God. For our God is a consuming fire. Heb. 12:29

 

[JLB]

This is quite clear: Jesus knew from the beginning who didn't believe and who would betray Him.

Do you believe it requires more than to believe, to be saved?

Judas heard Jesus Voice, and believed because he followed Jesus and became one of the twelve disciples.

This is irrefutable.

Later on after 3 1/2 years of following Jesus and being one of the twelve, he betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.


He believed for awhile, then fell away.


Case Closed.

What makes not "writing out the Scripture" not make my statement not true?

I gave the verses that prove my statement.

That's just it, you didn't give the two verses, as I wrote what the verses actually said, which wasn't what you said.

You said eternal life is an irrevocable gift. Romans 6:23 Romans 11:29

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 6:29

You took some words from each and disregarded the rest, and spliced the words you chose to use from one scripture, together with the words you choose to use from another scripture, to form a sentence that is not found in scripture.

Then you quote this man made phrase that you made up, as if it was scripture.

If you want to discuss scripture from the bible and it's context then great,

It you want to try and uses this man made spliced together phrase to compare with scripture, their is no comparison.

Here is what Romans 6:22-23 says.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

Paul points out that the end result of a life whose fruit is unto holiness is everlasting life, having become a slave to God.

Then he warns... the wages of sin, a sinful lifestyle [a life of practicing sin], is death.

Then he says... but the gift of God is eternal life IN Christ Jesus.

We can not expect to have eternal life apart from Christ, who is the source of eternal life.

This is easily understood from a reading of the previous verse.... But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness,and the end, everlasting life.

However, when we go back just a little further, this understanding is further expounded for all who are willing to read and believe what Paul said.

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedienceleading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in humanterms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessnessleading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.

20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

...you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


You is clear as it refers to the Christians whom Paul was addressing.

Those who practice sin, and become a slave to sin, will in the end receive the wages of eternal death.

Those who practice righteousness, and become a slave unto God, will in the end receive everlasting life, which is a gift from God.


Here are both scriptures, you keep referring to and try to put half of one together with half of the other, to attempt to form your doctrine.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 6:29


A reading of the context, of both Romans 11 and Romans 6 must be taken into consideration.

Here are some points we must consider from just these scriptures, as well.

• It is both the gifts and calling that Paul says are irrevocable.
• the gift of eternal life is "in" Christ Jesus our Lord.
• Irrevocable in it's original form must be taken into consideration, as it's meaning is different that the modern term.
• The wages of sin is death, and must be reconciled together with the gift of God of eternal life in Christ, in context.

JLB

 

[JLB]

The foundation of the building is the doctrine of Christ.

God will destroy those who defile His Temple.

His Temple are people.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

The RSV says If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. 1 Cor. 3:17 The body is the temple of the Spirit. If any one destroys the temple, God will destroy him.

 

[MarkT]

God will destroy those who defile His Temple.

His Temple is people.



JLB

Where does it say his temple is people?

 

[JLB]

Where does it say his temple is people?

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:14-17



JLB

 

[JLB]

The RSV says If any one destroys God's temple, God will destroy him. 1 Cor. 3:17 The body is the temple of the Spirit. If any one destroys the temple, God will destroy him.

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. KJV

 

[MarkT]

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:14-17



JLB

JLB This is the passage we are discussing. You can't just post it without any understanding. My understanding is that each man, each member of the church, is a temple if the Spirit of God dwells in him.

Paul said,
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 1 Cor. 6:19

What do you think Paul is saying?

Where does it say his temple is people?

 

[JLB]

JLB This is the passage we are discussing. You can't just post it without any understanding. My understanding is that each man, each member of the church, is a temple if the Spirit of God dwells in him.

Paul said,
1 Corinthians 6:19
Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, which you have from God? You are not your own; 1 Cor. 6:19

What do you think Paul is saying?

Where does it say his temple is people?

It's very simple.

An individual person is a [part of the] Temple, and is being built into the collective whole Temple of God.

19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. Ephesians 2:19-22


Peter describes this as "living stones" being built into a spiritual house.

... you also, as living stones, are being built up a spiritual house, a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 1 Peter 2:5


Please don't disregard what is plainly written, in the scripture reference text of the OP.

... If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.

It doesn't say God will destroy "it".

It says God will destroy him.

"him"refers to a person, who is a "part" of the whole collective Temple that is being being added to as each person who comes to Christ is fitted into place.


JLB

 

[chessman]

Judas Iscariot is a good example of believing and following Him for a while.

JLB

John 6:64, 70-71 (LEB) But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was who would betray him. ...
Jesus replied to them, “Did I not choose you, the twelve, and one of you is the devil?” Now he was speaking about Judas son of Simon Iscariot, because this one—one of the twelve—was going to betray him.
​

Judas heard Jesus Voice, and believed because he followed Jesus and became one of the twelve disciples. ...He believed for awhile, then fell away.

Case Closed

JLB

Jesus and John present a different case than your closed case.

 

[ezra]

17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are. KJV

why do you keep reposting this same scripture ?

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you believe it requires more than to believe, to be saved?

According to the following verses, no.

Salvation:

Mark 16:16
16 " He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved; but he who has disbelieved shall be condemned.

Luke 8:12
12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved.

Acts 4:12
12 "And there is salvation in no one else; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must be saved."

Acts 11:14
14 and he will speak words to you by which you will be saved, you and all your household.'

Acts 16:31
They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."

Rom 10:9, 10
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

Rom 1:16
16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God;

2 Tim 3:15
15 and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

1 Peter 1:5
5 who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Peter 1:9 obtaining as the outcome of your faith the salvation of your souls.

2 Thess 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.
Eternal Life:

John 3:15-16
15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. 16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

John 3:36
36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 5:24
24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

John 6:40
40 "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord

1 Tim 1:16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life.

Gal 3:22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

1 John 5:13
These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Judas heard Jesus Voice, and believed because he followed Jesus and became one of the twelve disciples.

He followed because he was an opportunist.

Later on after 3 1/2 years of following Jesus and being one of the twelve, he betrayed Jesus for 30 pieces of silver.

He believed for awhile, then fell away.

This is an assumption, not based on any facts. I presented a verse that included Judas himself in which the verse spoke about those disciples who DID NOT BELIEVE.

Case Closed.

Yes, the facts do speak for themselves. John 6:64 says: “But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who it was that would betray Him.

In the same verse we find "who they were who did not believe" and "who it was that would betray Him".

There is no reason to think that Judas ever believed.

You said eternal life is an irrevocable gift. Romans 6:23 Romans 11:29

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 6:29

You took some words from each and disregarded the rest, and spliced the words you chose to use from one scripture, together with the words you choose to use from another scripture, to form a sentence that is not found in scripture.

IF eternal life is a gift of God, and IF God's gifts are irrevocable, THEN eternal life is irrevocable.

What LOS doctrine has failed to provide is any evidence from Paul that he excluded the gift of eternal life from the gifts that are irrevocable. Case closed for lack of evidence.

Where did Paul unambiguously exclude the gift of eternal life from the gifts of God that are irrevocable?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The foundation of the house is the doctrine of Christ.
Paul laid the doctrine of Christ.

In the analogy of the building (1 Corinthians 3:9 NASB), the foundation is Christ himself (1 Corinthians 3:11 NASB), and the apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20 NASB). Built on top of that are the rest of us (1 Peter 2:5 NASB, Ephesians 2:21-22 NASB). Paul is using an analogy here which is explained for us in the scriptures themselves. What Paul says fits perfectly with that analogy. The analogy of wisdom being that which is built on the foundation of the learning about Christ may fit, but it does not fit well with the context.

Since the explanation I offer is fully and directly supported by scripture there is no reason to reject it. But I know that is difficult when centuries of theologians have been teaching and passing down their popular interpretation of the passage in our seminaries, propagating it in the church. And most (and I do mean most) Christians simply do not read their Bible to know of the better fitting meaning of the analogy that is explained right in the Bible itself, and almost without exception in cases like this insist on staying with what they have been taught. I think there is this subconscious fear in the church of thinking that the leadership of the church has gotten some things wrong. We should not be surprised at this at all. The history of Israel should teach us how very, very possible that is for that to happen in God's household. But if every Christian read their Bible's they would eventually know this.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

why do you keep reposting this same scripture ?

How is a believer who is supposedly OSAS going to escape this fact if he tears down the temple of God, the building of God, by teaching false doctrine that leads believers stacked on the foundation of Christ, like rooms in a multi-story building, away into something that will condemn them on the day of Christ?

 

[JLB]

Do you believe it requires more than to believe, to be saved?

According to the following verses, no.

So then you agree that the people in this verse were saved, when they believed?

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Where did Paul unambiguously exclude the gift of eternal life from the gifts of God that are irrevocable?

1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB
"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain."

A person never having believed for real in the first place (if that's how you interpret 'unless you believed in vain') doesn't change the fact that, for the one who really does believe, they are (presently) saved IF they (presently) hold fast the word he preached to them.

The author of Hebrews, and John say the same thing. To say that ex-believers are still holding fast the word they heard and so still have the gift of salvation/ eternal life completely and utterly contradicts the passage above.