What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[ezra]

You see, the true church is made of precious materials, not hay, wood, and stubble. If ministers of the gospel do not teach, preach, and encourage, so as to build people on the foundation of the Building of God made of precious stones and metals then what they built will be purged away in the final cleansing of God's kingdom and they will have run their ministerial race in vain and will have nothing to exult over in the life to come:

agreed hay wood stubble are things that perish in the fire our works done in Christ name are gold silver precious stone to give you a honest answer to your question--->"
What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?" imo that would depend on the motives of the works.. lets say you do something because you felt led of GOD to do so. if its truly of GOD it will stand the fire. if you do it claim it in jesus name but is for self gain vain glory selfish motives it will burn up. that is as close i will try to get. i give you this answer because in times past. you have been decent in your replies :amen

 

[JLB]

works done in Christ name are gold silver precious stone

In Christ's name?

Just because someone claims to be teaching in Christ's Name, does not mean it is silver, gold or precious stone, or even of Christ for that matter.

For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. Matthew 24;5



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So, let's just take it at face value. If people are works, and what's being evaluated is "silver, gold, gems" and "wood, hay, stubble", it seems we have "valuable people" and worthless people".

Yes.

I guess someone who thinks the works are people needs to explain what is meant by "silver gold, gems" and "wood, hay, stubble".

How did you miss the explanation?
If you're not going to listen to the people you're debating with is there any point in continuing?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes.

No. The Bible does not teach that we are accountable for the actions of others. 2 Cor 5:10 is quite clear.

 

[JLB]

No. The Bible does not teach that we are accountable for the actions of others. 2 Cor 5:10 is quite clear.

The Bible does teach we are accountable for what we build with, 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 is clear about this.

What we build with determines if the work will burn or not. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 is clear about this.

Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

The Bible does teach we are accountable for what we build with, 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 is clear about this.

The argument seems to be that we are accountable for how others act in regards to what we preach. What have I missed here?

And your comment completely agrees with my answer as to what "work" refers to in 1 Cor 3:14,15.

What we are to build with, which is our "work", is the power of the Holy Spirit, NOT our energy of the flesh.

What we build with is not "people", but the power source: Holy Spirit or energy of the flesh. One needs power in order to build. And we have a choice.

Is this disagreeabe from a biblical perspective?

What we build with determines if the work will burn or not.

Which is exactly what I've said. If we build with the power of the Holy Spirit, we will be rewarded for that work.

But, otoh, if we build with the energy of the flesh, that work will not be rewarded, but will be burned up. Yet, we will be saved. Which contradicts your view that believers who do not bear fruit will end up in hell.

 

[FreeGrace]

From post #127, which seems to have been missed, and was addressed to JLB:

Paul also wrote this: "set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2 Cor 1:22

What does this verse teach? Please answer.

What does he mean by the seal of ownership, being His Holy Spirit, being a deposit, which guarantees what is to come?

What is "to come"?

What is a guarantee?

These are important questions. And the Bible says this about all verses:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;" 2 Tim 3:16

So, if 2 Cor 1:22 isn't profitable for teaching, which category is it profitable for?

If it is profitable for teaching, what does it teach?

Paul told Timothy this about "approved workmen": Be diligent (by study) to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15

I would appreciate an answer regarding what 2 Cor 1:22 is teaching, if it is teaching anything. Or what other category of profitability does it fit, if not teaching?

 

[JLB]

The argument seems to be that we are accountable for how others act in regards to what we preach. What have I missed here?

And your comment completely agrees with my answer as to what "work" refers to in 1 Cor 3:14,15.

What we are to build with, which is our "work", is the power of the Holy Spirit, NOT our energy of the flesh.

What we build with is not "people", but the power source: Holy Spirit or energy of the flesh. One needs power in order to build. And we have a choice.

Is this disagreeabe from a biblical perspective?


Which is exactly what I've said. If we build with the power of the Holy Spirit, we will be rewarded for that work.

But, otoh, if we build with the energy of the flesh, that work will not be rewarded, but will be burned up. Yet, we will be saved. Which contradicts your view that believers who do not bear fruit will end up in hell.

Unfortunately, you have not addressed the plain words of scripture.

Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

People who defile other people in the Temple, God will destroy.

18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:18-23


Here is the principle of defilement from Jesus.


What comes out of a person's heart, evil thoughts, adulteries, fornication's, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.... is what defiles those around us, especially those we are connect to in relationship.


Paul warns of this in his teaching that uses leaven as an example.

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.


6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:6-13

Two paragraphs later, we see what the end result of those who defile with sexual immorality, idolatry...

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10


6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7


Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Unfortunately, you have not addressed the plain words of scripture.

A simple question: where does the Bible specifically teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others?

Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

People who defile other people in the Temple, God will destroy.

18 So He said to them, “Are you thus without understanding also? Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, 19 because it does not enter his heart but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?”20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:18-23

Here is the principle of defilement from Jesus.

What comes out of a person's heart, evil thoughts, adulteries, fornication's, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness.... is what defiles those around us, especially those we are connect to in relationship.

Paul warns of this in his teaching that uses leaven as an example.

But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person.

6 Your glorying is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, nor with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner—not even to eat with such a person. 12 For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13 But those who are outside God judges. Therefore “put away from yourselves the evil person.” 1 Corinthians 5:6-13

Two paragraphs later, we see what the end result of those who defile with sexual immorality, idolatry...

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them. Ephesians 5:6-7

Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy. 1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17JLB

OK, none of these verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others. So, which verse or verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others.

And, would it be possible to address my question from post #147? It would help me better understand your views.

 

[ezra]

A simple question: where does the Bible specifically teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others?


OK, none of these verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others. So, which verse or verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others.

" accountable for the actions of others. " it don,t we have to answer for us 2 Corinthians 5:10 .For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.. some have the religious bug so bad they are religious

 

[ezra]

A simple question: where does the Bible specifically teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others?


OK, none of these verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others. So, which verse or verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others.

" accountable for the actions of others. " it don,t we have to answer for us 2 Corinthians 5:10 .For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.. some have the religious bug so bad they are religious

The argument seems to be that we are accountable for how others act in regards to what we preach. What have I missed here?

And your comment completely agrees with my answer as to what "work" refers to in 1 Cor 3:14,15.

What we are to build with, which is our "work", is the power of the Holy Spirit, NOT our energy of the flesh.

What we build with is not "people", but the power source: Holy Spirit or energy of the flesh. One needs power in order to build. And we have a choice.

Is this disagreeabe from a biblical perspective?


Which is exactly what I've said. If we build with the power of the Holy Spirit, we will be rewarded for that work.

But, otoh, if we build with the energy of the flesh, that work will not be rewarded, but will be burned up. Yet, we will be saved. Which contradicts your view that believers who do not bear fruit will end up in hell.

agreed

 

[Jethro Bodine]

A simple question: where does the Bible specifically teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others?

You don't even understand the argument.
The argument is, the minister of the gospel who has nothing to show for his labor in the field/building of God because of sloth, or an incorrect message that can't save, will not have any crown of work completed as the result of his labor for him to exult in at the resurrection:

"we are your reason to be proud as you also are ours, in the day of our Lord Jesus." (2 Corinthians 1:14 NASB)

"19 For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? " (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

"15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB)

"8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward." (2 John 1:8 KJV)

Even if you insist that 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB isn't about all that, it's undeniable from the passages above that other people, if they make it through the final fiery Judgement, will indeed be your crown and glory, and you theirs. It's impossible to honestly make those passages 'go away'. It's a fact.

Now that isn't the only reward there is waiting for the believer at the end of the age, but it clearly is one of them, unless, of course, your work fails to make it through the Judgment and gets burned up instead. Then you will have no work, no people, to be your crown in the next life. Pretty simple stuff, plainly spelled out in our Bibles, but, yeah, I know, it's not taught in our churches, so people automatically resist it ahead of time and have a hard time believing what they are reading with their own eyes in their very own Bible.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

OK, none of these verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others. So, which verse or verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others.

So, hopefully now, you can see this is not about being accountable for other people. It's about having the reward of their presence in the kingdom with you after the final fiery Judgment that purges away all the false brethren. If those you minister to make it, you get the reward of their presence in the kingdom (2 Corinthians 1:14 NASB, 1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB, Philippians 2:15-16 NASB, 2 John 1:8 KJV).

If they don't make it, having been burned up in the fire, you lose the reward of your labor in the building of God--them:
"14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss..." (1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The Bible does teach we are accountable for what we build with, 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 is clear about this.

What we build with determines if the work will burn or not. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17 is clear about this.

Yes, we are accountable to be true to the word of the gospel, and not be slothful in being faithful to whatever trust we have been given in regard to laboring in the building and field of God (1 Corinthians 4:2 NASB).

EDIT

All the minister is accountable to is that he "Run in such a way that you may win" and "as not without aim" and "box in such a way, as not beating the air", "so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (for the prize)" (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 selected, parenthesis mine).

 

[JLB]

A simple question: where does the Bible specifically teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others?


OK, none of these verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others. So, which verse or verses teach that believers are accountable for the actions of others.

And, would it be possible to address my question from post #147? It would help me better understand your views.

1 Corinthians isn't about believers being accountable for other's actions.

You have no answer for this plain scripture, so you just ask an irrelevant question, that doesn't pertain to the thread of the topic.


Those who are the temple of God, and who defile the Temple, God will destroy.
1 Corinthians 3:17 is clear about this.
If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17

People who defile other people in the Temple, God will destroy.

People who are adulterers, spread adultery among those whom they are around.

This defilement comes from within their heart and defiles those whom they are in relationship with.

Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump? 1 Corinthians 5:6

Do not be deceived: “Evil company corrupts good habits.” 1 Corinthians 15:33

9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 1 Corinthians 6:9-10

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:17


Over and over and over and over, Paul warns these Corinthians about their immoral behavior, warning them that God will end up destroying them if they don't repent.

The scripture that teaches us as plain as day... God will destroy those who defile the Temple.

Now all there is left to discuss is how God will destroy those who defile His Temple, which Temple you are.




JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

EDIT
I know one thing, if I were to teach others that they could abandon their faith in Christ and begin to rely on the law, or Allah, or whatever for justification, and that they would still be saved I would certainly not have the reward of those who followed that message with me in heaven as a reward for me. Add to that, it would probably get me destroyed because I destroyed the temple of God.

"17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB)

 

[ezra]

I know one thing, if I were to teach others that they could abandon their faith in Christ and begin to rely on the law, or Allah, or whatever for justification, and that they would still be saved I would certainly not have the reward of those who followed that message with me in heaven as a reward for me. Add to that, it would probably get me destroyed because I destroyed the temple of God.

"17If any man destroys the temple of God, God will destroy him, for the temple of God is holy, and that is what you are." (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB)

the security of our salvation is scripture .the big kick against osa is those who continue in the sinful lifestyle . you have those who take osa to the extreme .which osa was never to be that way. it was to put your faith and trust in God . then you have those who are almost legalistic in nature. that any thing that is sin you do will send you to hell. they are the see no evil do no evil speak no evil or you will go to hell. fact is God will judge the secrets of our heart by Christ. as Christians we are told to confess our sins.. ( our job) we are to walk in the Light as he si the Light. if we fail to do the above when we sin chances are we never was saved. of course this will meet opposition.but so be it

 

[JLB]

.the big kick against osa is those who continue in the sinful lifestyle .

Amen.

as Christians we are told to confess our sins.. ( our job) we are to walk in the Light as he si the Light.

Amen.

if we fail to do the above when we sin chances are we never was saved.

Those who have never repented and asked Jesus to forgive their sins, were never saved.

However, if a person who was saved at one time, then turned to a life of sin, does need to come back to God and confess their sins, and be forgiven and cleansed. Sometimes this may even happen on the death bed, for God is not willing that any should perish, and desires all to be saved.

God has given us a way out, that we should believe on His Son, and to hold fast to what we first heard when we were saved.


Unfortunately their are some who get saved and baptized, and even lead many souls into the kingdom, but become bitter and hard hearted, because they blame God for the loss of a child, or a wife who ran off with the deacon, and they turn from God and never come back, and end up dying in their sins, even cursing God on their death bed.


Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

the security of our salvation is scripture

Yes, salvation is secure for those who believe. I agree completely. The matter of whether or not a believer can stop believing is the only real issue worthy of discussion in OSAS.

Although I don't think the 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB passage is a strong non-OSAS passage (other than the 'destroying' part), I do think that Paul is suggesting that even though he lay a good foundation of the gospel that got people saved, he's saying if someone comes along and adds false converts, or leads true converts astray, through a polluted or weakly delivered gospel message, they will not have those people with them at the final Judgment so as to be a reward for him who built those 'rooms' of perishable hay, wood, and stubble onto the foundation he originally laid there.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Unfortunately their are some who get saved and baptized, and even lead many souls into the kingdom, but become bitter and hard hearted, because they blame God for the loss of a child, or a wife who ran off with the deacon, and they turn from God and never come back, and end up dying in their sins, even cursing God on their death bed.

They are those of the second type of soil in the Parable of the sower:

"20“The one on whom seed was sown on the rocky places, this is the man who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21yet he has no firm root in himself, but is only temporary, and when affliction or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he falls away." (Matthew 13:20-21 NASB italics in original, bold mine)

I know somebody personally who did this. Not even their supernatural gift of speaking in tongues was enough proof in the reality of God and the gospel to keep them in the faith. I share that humbly, for perhaps I have my own breaking point(?), but by God's grace haven't come up against it yet. For now I'm strong in the faith and because of that remain saved.