What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

Nobody is saved from Hell by anything other than the fact that God saves them Hell. The Father has gracoiusly chosen to save people that truly come to believe in the foundational doctrine Paul taught there on his first visit (Jesus Christ and Him crucified).

God saves those who believe/obey the Gospel, and shows they believe by producing it's fruit.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

This is the point Jethro has made over and over from 1 Corinthians 15.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.


Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24


This is the biblical proof that we know Him, which is eternal life. John 17:3

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

 

[JLB]

lol. Seriously? And LOS doctrine has NO SUCH VERSE in the Bible about losing one's salvation.

But OPAS is true. Once eternal life is possessed, the possessor is always saved. LOS doctrine has not proven otherwise.

Where's the scripture for your opinion?


JLB

 

[chessman]

God saves those who believe/obey the Gospel, and shows they believe by producing it's fruit.

Are you going to answer my question of clarification toward your interpretation of 1 Cor 3:17? If you are not going to answer, I will stop asking.

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:14-17



JLB

Do you think by the word "destroy" in the underlined portion of this verse, Paul means destroy=sentence someone to Hell?

 

[Eugene]

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Who are the "They?" It certainly isn't God.

My understanding here is that the verse you are applying to Salvation is actually speaking of spiritual fruit that should be displayed of us in Christ. Yeah, just be known as a Christian and the world is ever ready to crucify us.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance . . .

 

[FreeGrace]

God saves those who believe/obey the Gospel, and shows they believe by producing it's fruit.

God saves those who believe, regardless of whether they bear fruit or not. 1 Cor 1:21 does not mention "bearing fruit" as any criteria: "For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not come to know God, God was well-pleased through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe."

Just follow the colored words to see who God is pleased to save. No other criteria. Not to mention the list of 22 verses that also identify ONLY belief in Christ as criteria for salvation/eternal life.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 1 John 2:24

The basic subject of 1 John is fellowship, not relationship with God. To "abide" is about fellowship, not relationship.

This is the point Jethro has made over and over from 1 Corinthians 15.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.

I'll repeat what I told him: the point of v.2 is found in the FIRST and LAST phrase in that verse:
"by which also you are saved" and "unless you believed in vain". That's Paul's point. The "holding fast" is NOT a requirement for either getting or staying saved, and the verse does NOT say or teach that.

People are saved unless they believe in vain. That's Paul's point and that's exactly what he wrote.

What does it mean to 'believe in vain'? It means to believe for any reason other than for salvation. The Greek word means "without reason". To believe without reason means to believe without any purpose. Which is in vain. And doesn't save.

Would you agree that believing in Christ for improved wealth would be "in vain"? Yes or no.

Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us. 1 John 3:24

Fellowship is the context, not relationship.

This is the biblical proof that we know Him, which is eternal life. John 17:3

This attempt to "mix and match" verses only shows the weakness of the argument. In Jn 17:3, John uses "know Him" to mean believe in Him for salvation. The entire gospel of John is about believing in Christ for eternal life, or salvation.

But John's purpose in his first epistle is about fellowship, which he specifically mentions 4 times in the first chapter.

I cannot imagine why LOS doctrine is so resistant to the teaching about fellowship.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

Sure. Keeping His commandments is evidence that we know Him.

But...what about legalistic and moral and self-righteous people who follow the commands of the Bible yet believe that by their own actions they will be saved, rather than by the death of Christ on the cross for their own sins? Do they "know Him"? No, they do not.

So, one's actions are totally INSUFFICIENT to save them. But your doctrine says they are.

Paul taught that we are saved by grace through faith, not by works. Eph 2:8,9.

And there are no verses that teach that we are kept by works either.

Bottom line, imo, LOS doctrine has not backed up its claims from Scripture.

 

[FreeGrace]

Where's the scripture for your opinion?
JLB

I'm glad for this question. The answer is found in the OP of the thread "ES vs LOS". Though closed, the OP is easily accessed.

btw, all this discussion about ES vs LOS is off topic for this thread, which is about the meaning of 1 Cor 3:14,15 and works that are burned up.

 

[MarkT]

How can this be the foundation spoken of in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15? The hay, wood, and stubble are not a different foundation in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 as it is in Matthew 7:24-27. Paul even points out that there can be no other foundation in the context of what he's talking about (vs. 11), so we know he's not referring to the foundation of obeying the will of God vs. the foundation of not obeying the will of God that Jesus talks about in Matthew, but something built on the one foundation, Jesus the Christ.

“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”Mt. 7:24-27

Jesus' teaching in Mt. 7:24-27 is an instructive teaching, not the foundation, but it is related to what we are talking about re. building on the foundation with wisdom, knowledge and insight. So if a man truly believes Jesus was the Christ, and he died for the forgiveness of sin, he will keep his teachings. I brought forth this teaching as an example of a teaching built on the foundation. Jesus said build your house on the rock, the rock being the word of God, the LORD being our Rock. Ps. 18:2, 18:31, 18:46, 42:9 If you do his word, your house will survive. If you don't do his word, your house will collapse. Now what does he mean by house? I said it is a spiritual house. What I'm saying is when we keep his sayings, we are in effect building a spiritual house. Actually God makes the house for his word, and we are his word, his sons, if we keep his teachings and his commandments.

 

[JLB]

Who are the "They?" It certainly isn't God.

He has angels who are assigned to do that.


The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42


JLB

 

[ezra]

“Every one then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house upon the rock; 25 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat upon that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. 26 And every one who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house upon the sand; 27 and the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell; and great was the fall of it.”Mt. 7:24-27

Jesus' teaching in Mt. 7:24-27 is an instructive teaching, not the foundation, but it is related to what we are talking about re. building on the foundation with wisdom, knowledge and insight. So if a man truly believes Jesus was the Christ, and he died for the forgiveness of sin, he will keep his teachings. I brought forth this teaching as an example of a teaching built on the foundation. Jesus said build your house on the rock, the rock being the word of God, the LORD being our Rock. Ps. 18:2, 18:31, 18:46, 42:9 If you do his word, your house will survive. If you don't do his word, your house will collapse. Now what does he mean by house? I said it is a spiritual house. What I'm saying is when we keep his sayings, we are in effect building a spiritual house. Actually God makes the house for his word, and we are his word, his sons, if we keep his teachings and his commandments.

i agree

 

[JLB]

I'm glad for this question. The answer is found in the OP of the thread "ES vs LOS". Though closed, the OP is easily accessed.

btw, all this discussion about ES vs LOS is off topic for this thread, which is about the meaning of 1 Cor 3:14,15 and works that are burned up.

I'll take that as a "you have no scripture", and therefore your comment is meaningless.


OSAS is not found in scripture.

 

[ezra]

I'll take that as a "you have no scripture", and therefore your comment is meaningless.


OSAS is not found in scripture.

neither is your theory its all a matter of how you or any one else interpret scriptures. i can show you many scriptures that shows the security of our salvation and yes i can also show others scriptures that leans toward walking away ..

 

[JLB]

Are you going to answer my question of clarification toward your interpretation of 1 Cor 3:17? If you are not going to answer, I will stop asking.

I'm sorry, if I missed it.

Please keep asking if I miss a post and fail to address.

14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire. 16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.
1 Corinthians 3:14-17

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.

I believe God will destroy those who defile his Temple.

What specifically do you want me to clarify about this verse?

Here's how the Strong's defines defile:

Strong's G5351 - phtheirō
to corrupt, to destroy

1. in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or "destroyed" when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties
2. to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide
3. to be destroyed, to perish
4. in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave
   

Here's how Paul used this word in his letter to the Ephesians.

17 This I say, therefore, and testify in the Lord, that you should no longer walk as the rest of the Gentiles walk, in the futility of their mind,18 having their understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God, because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart; 19 who, being past feeling, have given themselves over to lewdness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.
20 But you have not so learned Christ, 21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught by Him, as the truth is in Jesus: 22 that you put off, concerning your former conduct, the old man which grows corrupt [defiled] according to the deceitful lusts, 23 and be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and that you put on the new man which was created according to God, in true righteousness and holiness. Ephesians 4:17-24


Paul warns these Ephesians, as he warned the Corinthians and Galatians, that because of these things the wrath of God comes upon these sons of disobedience; do not partakers with them.

But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know, that no fornicator, unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God. 6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Ephesians 5:3-7


Paul warns them that they will have no place in God's Kingdom if they live as the unsaved Gentiles, by practicing these works of the flesh.


JLB

 

[JLB]

neither is your theory its all a matter of how you or any one else interpret scriptures. i can show you many scriptures that shows the security of our salvation and yes i can also show others scriptures that leans toward walking away ..

Please show me one, I would love to see the security of our salvation, from the scriptures.


JLB

 

[JLB]

God saves those who believe, regardless of whether they bear fruit or not.

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


End of your unbiblical theory.


JLB

 

[JLB]

The basic subject of 1 John is fellowship, not relationship with God. To "abide" is about fellowship, not relationship.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.1 John 2:3

Knowing Him is the definition of eternal life.

Keeping His commandments is HOW we know that we know Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

If you don't know Him, then you don't have eternal life.

in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and on those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Thessalonians 1:8


JLB

 

[Eugene]

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Matthew 13:41-42

The KJV & New International bibles interpret "They" as "Men" in Jn 15:6.
JLB, it appears to me you use another set of scripture out of context to say that children of God can be tares instead of good seed. Prior to this it was our fruit you called us into judgment for. E.g., a child of God with severe illness is experiencing trials beyond their present faith, is not at peace (A fruit of the Spirit), and they are destined for the lake of fire?

You quoted Mat 13:37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
Mat 13:38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
Mat 13:39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Mat 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
Mat 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
Mat 13:44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field. Jesus dying on the cross for us is proof of that very purchase.

 

[chessman]

Here's how the Strong's defines defile:

Strong's G5351 - phtheirō
to corrupt, to destroy

1. in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or "destroyed" when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties
2. to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide
3. to be destroyed, to perish
4. in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave

Okay. Thanks. Since none of theses definitions means to 'de-save' or to 'send to Hell' or something similar, I really do not see your point of posting it as if the verse somehow says;
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will send this one to Hell.

It just seemed to me like you thought it meant that since you posted it multiple times to try to prove God sends previously saved people to Hell.

Paul uses the word in the sense that means wounding someone's weak conscience later in the same letter.

1 Corinthians 8:11-12 (LEB) For the one who is weak—the brother for whom Christ died—is destroyed by your knowledge. Now if you sin in this way against the brothers and wound their conscience, which is weak, you sin against Christ. ​

 

[ezra]

Please show me one, I would love to see the security of our salvation, from the scriptures.


JLB

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and " undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,"

5 Who are " kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."
jude
24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,
so tell me do you worry about losing your salvation ? did you not note peter said KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD -through faith.

are you really that insecure about your salvation? no body is saying its a license to sin. like the old mckameys song do you know how it feels? i hope it was ok to post 2 scriptures .i go to bed saved and wake up saved .but if you insist on trying to live by the law be my guest . might i add the scripture on the works tried by fire is just that ! " our works " are either wood hay stubble or gold silver precious stone. this particular scripture is teaching our works will be judged/tried by fire. if they are pure and true they will survive . if they are self motivated they will burn up . have a good evening

 

[JLB]

The KJV & New International bibles interpret "They" as "Men" in Jn 15:6.
JLB, it appears to me you use another set of scripture out of context to say that children of God can be tares instead of good seed. Prior to this it was our fruit you called us into judgment for. E.g., a child of God with severe illness is experiencing trials beyond their present faith, is not at peace (A fruit of the Spirit), and they are destined for the lake of fire?

You asked me specifically who "they" were.

I gave you my answer.

This is a biblical example of who does the gathering up, and throw them into the fire.

The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:41-42

This is an example who the "they" are.

It is the work of angels to gather up the wicked and cast them into the fire.

That's who the "they" are in John 15:6, who gather up those who don't produce fruit.

6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

47 “Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea and gathered some of every kind, 48 which, when it was full, they drew to shore; and they sat down and gathered the good into vessels, but threw the bad away. 49 So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”. Matthew 13:47-50



JLB

 

[JLB]

5 Who are " kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

This passage says... kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...

It is through our faith, we are kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Those who don't continue in the faith, no longer continue in the power of God to be kept.

Faithless people are not promised this, people who have faith are promised to be kept by the power of god unto salvation.

Those who depart from the faith, no longer have faith, and they are no longer kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

Those who continue in the faith are secure, as they are kept by the power of God unto salvation.





JLB