What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

Okay. Thanks. Since none of theses definitions means to 'de-save' or to 'send to Hell' or something similar, I really do not see your point of posting it as if the verse somehow says;
If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will send this one to Hell.

It just seemed to me like you thought it meant that since you posted it multiple times to try to prove God sends previously saved people to Hell.

Paul uses the word in the sense that means wounding someone's weak conscience later in the same letter.

1 Corinthians 8:11-12 (LEB) For the one who is weak—the brother for whom Christ died—is destroyed by your knowledge. Now if you sin in this way against the brothers and wound their conscience, which is weak, you sin against Christ. ​

I just said they were people who were destroyed by God.

Can you show a scripture that refers to how God will destroy these people who defile His Temple.

Here's a scripture that shows us Jesus sentenced His servants, who were faithful for a while and were promoted, then became unfaithful and mistreated His people, and were....


45 “Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his master made ruler over his household, to give them food in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master, when he comes, will find so doing.47 Assuredly, I say to you that he will make him ruler over all his goods.48 But if that evil servant says in his heart, ‘My master is delaying his coming,’49 and begins to beat his fellow servants, and to eat and drink with the drunkards, 50 the master of that servant will come on a day when he is not looking for him and at an hour that he is not aware of, 51 and will cut him in two and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 24:45-51

Do you know what this phrase is a reference to? ...There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Do you know why they will be weeping and gnashing there teeth?

So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, 50 and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:49-50




JLB

 

[ezra]

This passage says... kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...

It is through our faith, we are kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Those who don't continue in the faith, no longer continue in the power of God to be kept.

Faithless people are not promised this, people who have faith are promised to be kept by the power of god unto salvation.

Those who depart from the faith, no longer have faith, and they are no longer kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

Those who continue in the faith are secure, as they are kept by the power of God unto salvation.





JLB

very well i expected nothing less hope you dont lose your salvation tonight.. you missed my point.

 

[JLB]

very well i expected nothing less hope you dont lose your salvation tonight.. you missed my point.

Sorry I missed your point.

When you get a chance, tell me what your point is.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

5 Who are " kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time."

So how is this verse true if you take out the 'through faith' part? It isn't of course. It says we are kept by the power of God 'through faith', not through unbelief. If you stop believing in Christ you will not have the power of God to keep you that comes through that faith.

24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy

We know from the whole counsel of scripture that we are kept from falling through our faith, not through our unbelief.

. might i add the scripture on the works tried by fire is just that ! " our works " are either wood hay stubble or gold silver precious stone. this particular scripture is teaching our works will be judged/tried by fire. if they are pure and true they will survive . if they are self motivated they will burn up . have a good evening

You, like a lot of other people, automatically think 'works of the law'--you know, good deeds and all--when you hear the word 'works'. And so you automatically apply that single understanding to this 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 passage. But we can see from the many Biblical references that Paul is alluding to in the passage that he is not talking about 'works', as in the works of righteousness a person does, but rather the actual manifest thing that the minister of the gospel accomplishes through his labor in the building and field of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

but if you insist on trying to live by the law be my guest

There is this profound misunderstanding in the Protestant church today that can't comprehend that works are required in salvation not as the thing you do to gain your salvation, but are what the Bible says will accompany the person who is genuinely saved:

"7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned.
9But, beloved, we are convinced of better things concerning you, and things that accompany salvation, though we are speaking in this way. 10For God is not unjust so as to forget your work and the love which you have shown toward His name, in having ministered and in still ministering to the saints." (Hebrews 6:7-10 NASB)

...but the church says works do NOT have to accompany salvation, because to say that would be to say that salvation is by works. Not true at all when one understands that works are the evidence of salvation, but the church is convinced you do not have to have that evidence because, once again, that would amount to a works salvation. Hardly true.

John said people who act unrighteously are not saved, while people who do act righteously are saved (1 John 3:9-10 NASB). That doesn't mean that righteous actions earn salvation. It means salvation works righteous lives in saved people and so is the evidence that a person is saved, while the lack of that evidence shows they are not saved. This is the truth that the church at large does not understand. This misunderstanding of Paul's works vs. faith teaching is what gives energy to false doctrines like OSAS.

 

[ezra]

You, like a lot of other people, automatically think 'works of the law'

who you talking to????? 9 And be found in him, not having " mine own righteousness, which is of the law, " but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

 

[chessman]

Can you show a scripture that refers to how God will destroy these people who defile His Temple.

Sure. I use what Paul does:

1 Corinthians 4:5 (LEB) Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God. ​

He (Jesus) will, on The Day of Fire, purge from within Christians every false thing we've built up in our hearts, the false doctrine, false thoughts, false teachings, and non-spiritual works we've done by enlightening the hidden darkness they/we have within us. Every work we've ever done that was not sent from God, not spiritually discerned, in the first place is burnt up. They were/are merely human constructs. Thus, we come out of this (God's) 'destruction' a'smoking (or as Paul says, "as through fire", 3:15). God knows our hearts.

1 Corinthians 3:20 (LEB) and again, “The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.” ...
1 Corinthians 4:5 (LEB) Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God.
​

Paul tells us in the next few statements exactly what he means by using this language of a testing/purging fire and destruction of anything defyling God's temple (us, not someone else) with man-made doctrine and foolish thoughts. He's emphasizing his original point made back in v3:4 all the way through 4:5 then tells us why he did so in the next few verses (4:6-7). Paul uses three different illustrative examples in-between; 1) infants, 2) a field growing by God's power and 3) a building being built by either things from God or things from man. Only things from God remain in us after The Day. But his overall point here is they've not been maturing as they should have. The entire discourse can be categorized into three categories: 1) The problem he's addressing 2) The life application through 2 illustrative examples and 3) The ultimate solution.

The problem:

1 Corinthians 3:1 (LEB) And I, brothers, was not able to speak to you as to spiritual people, but as to fleshly people, as to infants in Christ.
1 Corinthians 3:4 (LEB) For whenever anyone says, “I am with Paul,” and another, “I am with Apollos,” are you not merely human? ​

The ultimate solution:

4:5,
3:13 (LEB) the work of each one will become evident. For the day will reveal it, because it will be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the work of each one, of what sort it is.
3:17 (LEB) If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy this one. For God’s temple is holy, which you are.​

The Life Application (in this age):

1 Corinthians 4:6-7 (LEB) Now I have applied these things, brothers, to myself and Apollos for your sake, in order that in us you may learn not to go beyond what is written, lest someone be inflated with pride on behalf of one person against the other. For who concedes you superiority? And what do you have that you did not receive? But if indeed you received it, why do you boast as if you did not receive it?
1 Corinthians 3:10 According to the grace of God given to me, like a skilled master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building upon it. But each one must direct his attention to how he is building upon it.
1 Corinthians 3:18 (LEB) Let no one deceive himself. If anyone thinks himself to be wise among you in this age, let him become a fool, in order that he may become wise.
1 Corinthians 3:21-22 (LEB) So then, let no one boast in people. For all things are yours, whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas or the world or life or death or things present or things to come, all things are yours, ​

 

[JLB]

Can you show a scripture that refers to how God will destroy these people who defile His Temple.

Sure. I use what Paul does:

1 Corinthians 4:5 (LEB) Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God.

Where in the scripture you quoted does it refer to, how God will destroy those who defile His Temple?


JLB

 

[JLB]

who you talking to????? 9 And be found in him, not having " mine own righteousness, which is of the law, " but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

You just made his point.


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

I'll take that as a "you have no scripture", and therefore your comment is meaningless.


OSAS is not found in scripture.

In fact, since "you have no Scripture", "therefore your comment is meaningless".

What is not found in Scripture is the teaching that salvation can be lost.

But since going to the OP in another thread doesn't apparently appeal, I'll share just one of the points that prove that the Bible teaches eternal security.

Fourth, Paul stated that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, or "whether we are asleep or awake, we will be together with Him" in 1 Thess 5:10. The context begins in v.4 and contrasts believers with unbelievers, or day with night, or being alert with being asleep or sober with drunkeness.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Analysis of this passage:
v.4 tells us that believers are "not in darkness"
v.5 differentiates believers (sons of light and day) with unbelievers (not of night or darkness).
v.6 encourages believers to not live like unbelievers (not sleep as others do, but be alert and sober).
v.7 describes unbelievers and what they do.
v.8 explains that "since we are of the day" (believers), we need to be sober.
v.9 explains the destiny of the believer - not destined for wrath but for salvation
v.10 says that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, we will live together with Him.

Now, if my explanation is incorrect, please explain what each of the verses say and mean.

I do have Scripture to back up my beliefs. So, if I'm wrong about what 1 Thess 5:4-10 teaches, please show how I am wrong.

But don't make the mistake of erroneously claiming that I don't have Scripture that supports my views.

 

[ezra]

You just made his point.


JLB

and we wonder why the lost enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season . they see the church fighting on whose doctrine is the right teaching .gaps are being created in the Body and Satan is dropping seeds filling in the gap. no wonder the Body of Christ is divided thank you for proving my point

 

[chessman]

Can you show a scripture that refers to how God will destroy these people who defile His Temple.

Where in the scripture you quoted does it refer to, how God will destroy those who defile His Temple?

JLB

Here:

1 Corinthians 4:5 Therefore do not judge anything before the time, until the Lord should come, who will both enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts, and then praise will come to each one from God. ​

When Jesus "enlighten the hidden things of darkness and will reveal the counsels of hearts" He well be "destroying" the things that have defiled the temple (us).

Said another way by this verse here:

1 Corinthians 3:15 (LEB) If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, but he himself will be saved, but so as through fire.​

Destroying a defiled temple=burning up the fleshly work within=enlightening the hidden things of darkness. Three different ways to describe what Jesus will do to us on The Day.

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm sorry, if I missed it.

Please keep asking if I miss a post and fail to address.

Will that work for all posters who ask questions?

 

[FreeGrace]

ezra said: ↑
neither is your theory its all a matter of how you or any one else interpret scriptures. i can show you many scriptures that shows the security of our salvation and yes i can also show others scriptures that leans toward walking away ..

Please show me one, I would love to see the security of our salvation, from the scriptures.
JLB

Great!! Here's another point:

Second, every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a pledge with a view to the redemption of God's own possession (believers - Eph 1:14).

And, this sealing is for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).

1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Now, if this sealing with the Holy Spirit, which is a mark of God's own possession, can be broken, please direct me to any verses that specifically mentions this specific seal and how it can be broken before the day of redemption.

Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"God saves those who believe, regardless of whether they bear fruit or not."

15 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6


End of your unbiblical theory.
JLB

Waiting for your analysis of 1 Thess 5:4-10.

 

[FreeGrace]

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments.1 John 2:3

Knowing Him is the definition of eternal life.

Keeping His commandments is HOW we know that we know Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

If you don't know Him, then you don't have eternal life.

Just one "slight" problem with this analysis. Those who have believed and later cease to believe, still know Him. Is your claim here a suggestion that those who cease to believe, like the second soil of the parable, simply forgot who He is??

What would one base that on, exactly?

 

[ezra]

ezra said: ↑
neither is your theory its all a matter of how you or any one else interpret scriptures. i can show you many scriptures that shows the security of our salvation and yes i can also show others scriptures that leans toward walking away ..

Great!! Here's another point:

Second, every believer is sealed with the Holy Spirit when they believe (Eph 1:13). This sealing is a pledge with a view to the redemption of God's own possession (believers - Eph 1:14).

And, this sealing is for the day of redemption (Eph 4:30).

1:13 - In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise
1:14 - who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.
4:30 - Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.

Now, if this sealing with the Holy Spirit, which is a mark of God's own possession, can be broken, please direct me to any verses that specifically mentions this specific seal and how it can be broken before the day of redemption.

Thanks.

i do firmly believe %100 in the security of our salvation. for those who are truly saved. we all sin we all do things that are wrong,but there has to be some conviction . when we sin and we will either sin of omission or commission and our heart is pricked. we should call out 1. ask for help 2. ask forgiveness . some will call it osas eternal security . i just know i am secure in Christ by abiding in him and him in me. where i draw the line at would be of this example a man and woman living together with out marriage and seeing no need to be married. granted our s.r citizens chose to live together rather than marriage . they can still have the relationship and not live together or sleep in separate rooms. . continuing in sin like its no big deal. raises red flags. besides i had rather leave this life knowing that i did try that not put forth a effort and still think i was saved. i believe in a know so salvation

 

[Jethro Bodine]

who you talking to????? 9 And be found in him, not having " mine own righteousness, which is of the law, " but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

You.
I understand the propensity to automatically think of our personal obedience to God when we hear the word 'work', but Paul is talking about work actually completed in ministry in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB. I didn't see it at first, either. Years later after becoming a Christian the fact that 'you' is plural in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NASB opened up a whole bunch of revelation for me in this letter to the Corinthians. The context is the plurality of believers at Corinth and them being the 'work' of the ministers who labor in them. It isn't about our personal obedience, our 'works of righteousness'.

Consider that when you 'test' what someone has built, you do not go to the person. You go to that which they built. The thing that gets tested at the end of the age is what you've been working on, not you. Our personal Judgement at the end is another thing altogether.

I led a Bible study once and I brought in one of my son's school projects made out of popsicle sticks. I set it on a chair in the middle of our class and I said I built it and I asked that it be tested. Not a single person approached me to test what I built. They all knew rightly to go to that which I built to test what I did. Then I explained to them how we misunderstand the passage by saying God will test us personally when what we have done gets tested.

 

[ezra]

I said this:
"God saves those who believe, regardless of whether they bear fruit or not."

Waiting for your analysis of 1 Thess 5:4-10.

no fruit No root .

 

[ezra]

You.
I understand the propensity to automatically think of our personal obedience to God when we hear the word 'work', but Paul is talking about work actually completed in ministry in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB. I didn't see it at first, either. Years later after becoming a Christian the fact that 'you' is plural in 1 Corinthians 3:16-17 NASB opened up a whole bunch of revelation for me in this letter to the Corinthians. The context is the plurality of believers at Corinth and them being the 'work' of the ministers who labor in them. It isn't about our personal obedience, our 'works of righteousness'.

Consider that when you 'test' someone's work, you do not go to the person. You go to that which they built. The thing that gets tested at the end of the age is what you've been working on, not you. Our personal Judgement at the end is another thing altogether.

God does the testing with fire not us -----{ our personal obedience to God .....them being the 'work' of the ministers who labor in them. It isn't about our personal obedience, our 'works of righteousness'. } sorry to say this but it is personal obedience to God when it comes to the ministry. i am a minister and when God directs me to a message or do something .it is a work and a personal obedience to God . what good would our faith be if we didnt use it? the judgement seat is 1. the bema seat we give account of good and bad--- Christian judgement . the great white throne judgment is for the lost if one is in this line {figuratively speaking } it is do not pass go or collect $200.00 it is the final judgement depart from me.