What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

Observation #2: One person who doesn't believe OSAS says OSAS teaches people to 'live like Hell'. Yet another person that doesn't believe OSAS says OSAS brings crowds and money into the church. Which is it?

Both.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. 2 timothy 4:3-4

 

[Jethro Bodine]

How many people who 'live like Hell' crowd into and give lots of money to the churches?

Wow! You never heard of the primo example of this--the prosperity gospel?

They teach people to be greedy for worldly gain, and doing that pads the coffers of those churches to overflowing. People will in fact support a church that tickles their ears (2 Timothy 4:3 NASB).

(Okay, JLB beat me to it. )

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Both.

My very first answer in my mind to his question, too.

 

[ezra]

But...we're not saved by "abiding in Him", but by placing our trust in Him to save us. I believe that the concept of "abiding" is about fellowship with Christ, not obtaining or maintaining our relationship to Him.

hold up once again your missing the point no we are not saved by abiding in that is to say i am with jesus and he is with me. we must be born again.. for a person that makes a profession of Christ they must be abiding in him . he is the true vine we are the branches and the branches that produces fruit .has to get the strength the stuff that produces the fruit (the spirit) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. " Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. " so yes if we are saved we are abiding in him the moment we get saved we are grafted into the true vine . a branch can not survive on its own or produce fruit with out being attached /abiding

 

[chessman]

Wow! You never heard of the primo example of this--the prosperity gospel?

They teach people to be greedy for worldly gain, and doing that pads the coffers of those churches to overflowing. People will in fact support a church that tickles their ears (2 Timothy 4:3 NASB).

Well, I have heard the term 'prosperity gospel' and 'word of faith' and 'name it and claim it' but I don't know much about what they teach honestly. Are you suggesting they teach OSAS? Someone like Joel Osteen? I never read/listened to him but I did just visit his website. I didn't find anything OSAS or LOS one way or the other. I did find the donate button though.

Do you have a specific example of someone that teaches OSAS , yet you'd call a prosperity gospel teacher too? He's the only one I know of. I just don't run in those circles.

 

[ezra]

Oh, if I only had time to post all my thoughts in this forum.
I have lots to say and one of the things I've wanted to say is OSAS has found such a warm place in the church because it brings in the crowds, which in turn raises revenue. I'm not bashing you. I'm just making an observation. I know you aren't personally responsible for what has happened in the church. You, like me, have simply received what our forefathers have passed down to us through our seminaries.

you hit part of it ( the problem ) head on in some cases not teaching what true eternal security is about can produce 1. false belief 2. a state of Luke warmness . i was pastor of a small southern baptist church yes me being general baptist. the very thing that leaves a bad taste in those who worship the southern baptist name (same with general baptist ) the church was trying to grow God gave me messages i had never preached. i preached a know so salvation we could be secure in Christ etc. guess what a woman found out i was ordained gen baptist.. slam the brakes on you can,t preach here .. why?
because i did not have the southern baptist name tag. might i add this was the former pastor daughter. i classify her as Jezebel. folks study the word but only apply what they want. had the carnal minds left things alone. i would have joined the southern baptist. carnality is killing the church they play the famous theme song i did it my way... i heard a preacher say i am glad i am saved and can,t loose it. in other words thank God i am not like those who do.. i have known many who do not believe in osas .they live a very Godly life. the problem is not so much the doctrines but the people :amen

 

[ezra]

Unfortunately for OSAS, a darnel was never a part in the Temple.

yes and Unfortunately we have took time to show scriptures showing we can be secure in christ. call it osas being secure it does not matter. yet YOU continue to deny scriptures very Unfortunately denying scripture is sad.

 

[FreeGrace]

I don't think it's not well known that 'easy believism' brings in the crowds. That's one reason why the great purging of the kingdom of God at the end of the age will be so necessary:

Please define what is meant by "easy believism", recalling what Jesus said here:
28 “Come to Me, all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest.
29 “Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
30 “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”

 

[FreeGrace]

... all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.
Revelation 21:8b

So then, did Jesus Christ not die for all sins? Is Rev 21 a list of the sins for which He didn't die for?

Recall what Paul taught:
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins

 

[FreeGrace]

Observation #2: One person who doesn't believe OSAS says OSAS teaches people to 'live like Hell'. Yet another person that doesn't believe OSAS says OSAS brings crowds and money into the church. Which is it?

How many people who 'live like Hell' crowd into and give lots of money to the churches?

It certainly seems these claimers are 2.

 

[FreeGrace]

hold up once again your missing the point no we are not saved by abiding in that is to say i am with jesus and he is with me. we must be born again.. for a person that makes a profession of Christ they must be abiding in him . he is the true vine we are the branches and the branches that produces fruit .has to get the strength the stuff that produces the fruit (the spirit) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. " Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. " so yes if we are saved we are abiding in him the moment we get saved we are grafted into the true vine . a branch can not survive on its own or produce fruit with out being attached /abiding

My understanding of "abiding" is fellowship. Believers are commanded to be "filled with the Spirit". I believe that is what abiding is about. Believers aren't always filled with the Spirit. We see that in the NT in both a positive and negative light. There are a number of verses that state that someone "was filled with the Spirit" and then did some action. Implication is that one isn't always.

From the negative aspect, neither Simon the sorcerer nor Ananias and Saphira were filled with the Spirit.

While many might claim they were never saved in the first place, the Bible directly says that Simon himself believed. I won't argue that. As for A & S, they were clearly part of the close knit congregation. At that time in history, it seems quite unlikely that any unbelievers would want to be part of the group called "Christians".

Also, they are examples of God's divine discipline which resulted in their physical deaths, which Paul makes note of in 1 Cor 11:30 - "many of you are weak, sickly and a number of you have died".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Well, I have heard the term 'prosperity gospel' and 'word of faith' and 'name it and claim it' but I don't know much about what they teach honestly. Are you suggesting they teach OSAS?

No. That wasn't the point. I was using them and their doctrine as an example I was sure you'd know about--how a teaching that teaches people to be ungodly (greedy in this case) is popular because of that teaching, just as OSAS is popular because it takes the burden off of people to examine their works to make sure they have the Holy Spirit in salvation, because as OSAS insists, works have nothing to do with salvation, or else that would be a works gospel.

My unsaved son told me about the time a young 'Christian' sat with him at a local bar getting drunk with him because he believed it had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether he was now saved, or would be saved at the Judgment. That's ultimately what OSAS does: It teaches people that what they do has no affect on their salvation, because works play no role in salvation, and that if they did think they do, that would be a works salvation, which we all know is 'another' gospel. Even them knowing that their obedience determines whether or not they experience God's manifest presence and love and fellowship in their lives seems not to be enough to get OSASer's serious about overcoming sin in their lives--I'm speaking generally of the church, of course.

On the other hand, in denominations like the Church of Christ, you will find very, very dedicated, sincere, Spirit led people who love and obey the Lord. And I don't think it's any accident that they nurture that kind of relationship with God because they know that fruitless branches and fields are ultimately unbelieving branches and fields (the lack of fruit being the evidence of that unbelief--Hebrews 6:7-9 NASB) and, as a result, will not be spared on the Day of Judgment. That's NOT a works salvation. To think it is is to misunderstand Paul's faith vs. works doctrine. And that misunderstanding is very widespread in the church today. It causes people to think that to make obedience a necessary part of the saved person's life is to somehow think that's nothing more than a works gospel that can not save. When in fact it is very much a part of the true gospel--works being the expected and obligatory evidence that one has been justified by faith apart from works--in the same way that getting wet is the expected and obligatory proof and evidence of being in the pool.

Many OSASer's will condemn themselves and their hearers by believing that their lack of fruit (when that is the case) has nothing to do with whether they are saved. Teachers who build people onto the foundation of Christ and the prophets and Apostles with that message will be building people likened to hay, wood, and stubble onto the foundation and into the building of God (if they live according to that message) , people who will be burned up at the Judgment, not pass through the Judgment to be a reward for the people who ministered the true gospel to them (1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NASB, 1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

yes and Unfortunately we have took time to show scriptures showing we can be secure in christ.

Non-OSASer's know and believe one can be secure in Christ, too. Faith is how one secures the sure promise of salvation and eternal life that can never fail or let us down. His promise is the most sure thing in all the universe. Have faith and you do indeed have that promise as your own and nobody can take it away from you...unless there is someone bigger than God's power that can make the promise of no effect for those of us who have secured that power through our faith (1 Peter 1: 4-5 NASB).

 

[ezra]

My understanding of "abiding" is fellowship. Believers are commanded to be "filled with the Spirit". I believe that is what abiding is about. Believers aren't always filled with the Spirit. We see that in the NT in both a positive and negative light. There are a number of verses that state that someone "was filled with the Spirit" and then did some action. Implication is that one isn't always.

From the negative aspect, neither Simon the sorcerer nor Ananias and Saphira were filled with the Spirit.

While many might claim they were never saved in the first place, the Bible directly says that Simon himself believed. I won't argue that. As for A & S, they were clearly part of the close knit congregation. At that time in history, it seems quite unlikely that any unbelievers would want to be part of the group called "Christians".

Also, they are examples of God's divine discipline which resulted in their physical deaths, which Paul makes note of in 1 Cor 11:30 - "many of you are weak, sickly and a number of you have died".

fellowship is a word that could be used lets look at the scriptures
John 15King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 {Abide in me}, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.

8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.

10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and that your joy might be full.

i am providing this link as i agree with what it says http://www.gotquestions.org/true-vine.html

to abide one must be connected can a cluster of grapes live not connected to the main vine? to have a relationship you have to abide live in him {
Webster's 1828 Dictionary
Abider
ABI'DER, noun One who dwells or continues.}
ABI'DE, verb intransitive pert. and part. abode.

abada, to be, or exist, to continue; W. bod, to be; to dwell, rest, continue, stand firm, or be stationary for anytime indefinitely. Class Bd. No 7.]

1. To rest, or dwell. Genesis 29:19.

2. To tarry or stay for a short time. Genesis 24:55.

3. To continue permanently or in the same state; to be firm and immovable. Psalms 119:90.

4. To remain, to continue. Acts 27:31. Ecclesiastes 8:15.

the last part of verse 5 says for without me ye can do nothing. who is me ? the true vine who is the true vine? Jesus he talks about the branches not producing fruit... what is the fruit? the fruit of the spirit produced by the spirit. so the only way we can have the fruit of the spirit is have the spirit which we get the moment of salvation . . love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, kindness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22–23) while we may not show it externally all though people should see something in us.. so in closing a person who has no fruit never was saved. please note only God knows who is real has fruit and who is fake no fruit. we are to be fruit bearer's not fruit inspectors . which is a bad habit of all of us. also there are those who say this proves we can be removed from the vine after being saved .
that not how i read it. take 2 sorry i close in preaching at least 3 times lol if you get a chance to read a book called secrets of the vine .it is a very good book. my last point that i failed to post. a branch removed can be a type pruning -in the book i mentioned it talks of a man who buys a vineyard and hires a vine dresser first thing he does he walks up cuts a big vine /branches full of big grapes. behind this cluster of big grapes was small grapes trying to produce .but chocked out by the bigger grapes.. sometimes God will remove something from us . so we can grow in another area.... :amen

 

[ezra]

Non-OSASer's know and believe one can be secure in Christ, too. Faith is how one secures the sure promise of salvation and eternal life that can never fail or let us down. His promise is the most sure thing in all the universe. Have faith and you do indeed have that promise as your own and nobody can take it away from you...unless there is someone bigger than God's power that can make the promise of no effect for those of us who have secured that power through our faith (1 Peter 1: 4-5 NASB).

yes they do but they will never us the word eternal security or osas for years i was afraid to say the word eternal life . thinking i was agreeing with osas. do i believe in eternal security like southern bapt or independent do ? probably not i just know where my security is and its not in a denom belief:amen

 

[chessman]

Unfortunately for OSAS, a darnel was never a part in the Temple.

Nor were they ever even implied to be once-saved people in Jesus' seed sower parable either.

What's unfortunate is that JB implied they (the tares) were once saved people by:

It helps us understand how there are 'people' in God's kingdom that will be removed from his kingdom at the end of the age.

When in reality all you have to do is go read the text that he left out and it says right there they were never a good seed to begin with.
He even called them 'brethren'.

That which is burned away are false brethren in the kingdom.

Stubble!

the Bible does use is the analogy of the branch (in Christ) that bears no fruit and which is then cut out (of Christ) and burned (John 15:1-11 NASB). I'm not posting that passage to start a detailed discussion about that. I posted it because I have to have a scriptu

Okay, the details don't support your case anyway. You'd have to make a Biblical case that x amount of fruit bearing each year is necessary to maintain your salvation to even get started. Then you'd have to show that burning pruning and clipings each year by a farmer was somehow meant to represent Final Judgment.

 

[MarkT]

At least not a legitimate part of the temple, the building, the field of God:

"41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness" (Matthew 13:41 NASB)

All the parts of God's building and field composed of hay, wood, and stubble will be burned up at the last and great Judgment. That's why we need to be careful how we build on God's building. If we build the building of God with people which are false (or become false) and can not withstand the coming Judgment they will be burned away from the building of God and we will have no reward for our labor in the building of God. Our work completed will be found to be perishable and will be burned up.

God's building is a spiritual structure, apostles, prophets, teachers, etc. It's a house for the word of God, a house for teaching and instruction in the word of God. Jesus said, 'Seek and you will find'. Mt. 7:7-8, so to me 1 Cor. 3:10-15 is about seeking and finding the truth. If our work results in finding the knowledge of God, and we build with it, then our house will survive, and we will be rewarded. If our work results in wood, hay and stubble, and we build with it, we will suffer loss and our house will fall. So everything you think you know, everything you believe, is on the line. If we are successful, the fire will test the work to see if it is gold, silver and precious stones. If it is, our work will be rewarded. If it isn't, the work will be burned, the man will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire. I would say if the foundation is genuine, the man will be saved.

 

[chessman]

OSAS is popular because it takes the burden off of people to examine their works

Okay, if you think so. I think it's popular because it makes Biblical sense. But whatever. People have lots of twisted views.

I can see your point here, at least, about this potential effect from OSAS. I have listened and read Christian news reports about how rampant in prisons and gangs there is such a 'Christian'. They do teach this type of thing. But, they never set foot in the door of a church and they certainly don't give there money to churches. Nor do they make Scriptural arguments for their views.

a young 'Christian' sat with him at a local bar getting drunk with him because he believed it had absolutely no bearing whatsoever on whether he was now saved, or would be saved at the Judgment.

Okay (not that I think sitting at a bar getting drunk gets you un-saved either) and I don't know the guy but I bet you a nickel if you asked him to tell you Paul's Gospel, he'd say Paul who? He might know TuPac's Gangsta Gospel by heart, but couldn't tell you Saint Pauls for another shot.

What i don't understand though is why you think this type of twisted doctrine would make people want to fill churchs (hungover I guess on Sunday Morning AND out in time for some some NFL and a bit more of the hair of the dog) or certainly not give their party money away to anybody except their drug dealers.

It makes zero sense.

 

[JLB]

yes and Unfortunately we have took time to show scriptures showing we can be secure in christ. call it osas being secure it does not matter. yet YOU continue to deny scriptures very Unfortunately denying scripture is sad.

What scriptures have I denied, specifically?

God knows I have taken the time and effort to give you a response from the scriptures, to only have you give me some condescending logical fallacy remark in response.

Here's the latest example from post # 282

I commented on the scripture you gave, and posted the language from that scripture, to engage with you in an honest attempt to find some common understanding.

Here's my response, in which I showed a scripture from Paul that said it was possible for people to depart from the faith... and warned that in the latter days they would, giving heed to doctrines of demons.

This passage says... kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation...

It is through our faith, we are kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Those who don't continue in the faith, no longer continue in the power of God to be kept.

Faithless people are not promised this, people who have faith are promised to be kept by the power of god unto salvation.

Those who depart from the faith, no longer have faith, and they are no longer kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons. 1 Timothy 4:1

Those who continue in the faith are secure, as they are kept by the power of God unto salvation.

Then you, not being able to answer the plain and clear point from the scripture I posted, that says some will depart from the faith...

You just choose to make a condescending remark, because a person really can depart from the faith, in which they no longer have the faith that Paul's says, is the very thing through which we are kept by the power of God.

How can God's power keep us, if we no longer have the faith, through which we are kept by God's power?

very well i expected nothing less hope you dont lose your salvation tonight.. you missed my point.

Now you want to tell me that I'm denying the scriptures? 2


Can you answer my question, from the language of the the very scripture you posted, that you claim shows we are secure in salvation?


How can we be kept by the power of God unto salvation, if we no longer have faith in Jesus Christ?




JLB

 

[JLB]

So then, did Jesus Christ not die for all sins? Is Rev 21 a list of the sins for which He didn't die for?

Recall what Paul taught:
When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins

Jesus died so we can have the forgiveness of sins.

Jesus didn't did for sins, He died so that people could be reconciled back to God, by being forgiven of their sins, through obeying the Gospel.

I know this, if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you will not be forgiven in this age, or the age to come.

If we sin, after we are saved by faith, then we can come to Him and confess our sin and be forgiven.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:9


What the hyper Grace theology teaches, is Jesus died for all sin, and there is no need to confess sin, because Jesus died for all sin.

That would mean the world is saved, because Jesus died for all sin.


Knowing Him is eternal life. John 17:3 ... this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

The proof that we know Him is: Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:3-4


People who live an unrighteous, sinful lifestyle of practicing the works of the flesh, and disobedience will lose there place in God's Kingdom, and partake of God's wrath.


....who will render to each one according to his deeds

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8



JLB