What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[Jethro Bodine]

Also, they are examples of God's divine discipline which resulted in their physical deaths, which Paul makes note of in 1 Cor 11:30 - "many of you are weak, sickly and a number of you have died".

If believers are OSAS, why is it necessary that God put believers to death "so that we will not be condemned along with the world" (1 Corinthians 11:32 NASB), and "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:4 NASB)? If it were true that they were already irretrievably saved (OSAS) it would not be necessary to put them to death so that they will be saved.

 

[ezra]

Yes pruning does produce healthy new growth ripe for bearing fruit.

I like the way Bruce started out his book by pointing out that this is part of Jesus' farwell discourse. It's the message He left them with on how to live and produce fruit in the process. He tells this story to The 11 Disciples whom He'd just washed their feet, after dismissing Judas of course.

THAT AND HIS BOOK JABEZ VERY GOOD BOOKS.

 

[MarkT]

You misunderstand. If a branch or field has ANY fruit of the Spirit, it is not subject to the burning at the Final Judgment. Instead, it will be pruned back to make it more fruitful, in this age. It is the branch or field that does not bear the fruit of the Spirit that is burned up in the end:

"7For ground that drinks the rain which often falls on it and brings forth vegetation useful to those for whose sake it is also tilled, receives a blessing from God; 8but if it yields thorns and thistles, it is worthless and close to being cursed, and it ends up being burned." (Hebrews 6:7-8 NASB)

And that is what fruitless branches and fields have to look forward to--being destroyed, not lovingly pruned back. They are fruitless because they do not have the faith in Christ that produces that fruit. And faith is what you have to have to be kept by the power of God for the Day of Judgment and the salvation that is to be revealed at that time (1 Peter 1:4-5 NASB). And so it is for that reason that fruitless branches and fields are burned up at the Judgment, not saved.

So, if we plant the field of God, or build the building of God, with people who end up being fruitless (faithless), they will burned up at the Final Judgment. That's why we have to be careful how we build (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB). There is no reward in the kingdom of God of people for the worker in the field and building of God of people (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB) who don't make it through to the other side to be that reward, but instead get burned up in the Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:14-15 NASB). And if the worker himself is responsible for the people in the field and building of God being fruitless/faithless, and as a result destroyed, they themselves will be destroyed (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB).

Teachers of OSAS ought to be aware of this. If a person's particular brand of OSAS that they teach is that a believer can turn to the law, or to Allah, and away from Christ for justification and they will still be saved, and some believers then do that thinking they will still be saved, the one who brought that teaching may well be the very one's whom God will destroy for destroying his temple. God warned us, folks. I'm not judging anyone. I don't know who God holds responsible for doing that, and who he does not. I'm not the Judge. But that hardly means God isn't going to judge anybody at all for destroying his temple.

How do you take care how you build people? It's nonsense. So if someone falls away from Jesus, then Jesus is destroyed? Jesus should have been destroyed because Judas betrayed him? Guess Jesus didn't take care.

Back to the drawing board Jethro.

 

[ezra]

If believers are OSAS, why is it necessary that God put believers to death "so that we will not be condemned along with the world" (1 Corinthians 11:32 NASB), and "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:4 NASB)? If it were true that they were already irretrievably saved (OSAS) it would not be necessary to put them to death so that they will be saved.

your confusing me do you believe in osas or not

 

[JLB]

I see the following:

1. I see a fundamental problem with establishing LOS doctrine by using a parable that Jesus left open to interpretation with respect to the soils' salvation state. Yes, Jesus interpreted portions of this parable, but He never (not once) said the soils were saved then lost their salvation. If Jesus had interpreted this parable and stated "soils 1,2, and 3 were saved for awhile but lost their salvation' you'd have a Biblical point. But He didn't interpret this parable that way. You do. But He could have if that would have been His point.

2. I see desperation from the LOS group to try and add personal interpretation that Jesus never gave for this parable or the one about the wheat and tares seed or the branches burning metaphor. If you cannot find LOS Texts that directly say that you loose your salvation for doing X,Y, Z then it makes your case look extremely weak to do so using uniterpreted parable/metaphor (uninterpreted in the way you do) in the first place. For something so vitally important as loosing your salvation, you'd think Jesus would have given a Truly, Truly you will loose Eternal Life if you do x, y, z

3. I see great amounts of inconsistency within your additions to Jesus' interpretation.
The purpose of the parable was/is to teach that it is necessary to have the right ingredients (The Word-Jesus, Word enriched cultivated soil-saved people, water and sunlight-Holy Spirit supplied by the root) in order to bear fruit. Lack any of these ingredients=no fruit. It's not about three ways to loose your salvation.

4. I see inconsistency when you say:

Do you have anything to share from the actual scripture and the language used by Jesus, now that you have stated your opinion?

Please point out what you see from the scripture.

Please use the actual language and words from the scripture itself to validate your belief.

Here, I have expounded upon the truth's from the actual scripture, and the language used.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.Luke 8:12

Jesus said... lest they should believe and be saved.

The devil snatch away the seed, before it could be received into the ground, grow a root system, and sprout up, which Jesus associated with believing.... as he said lest they believe, and be saved.

These by the wayside, never received the seed into their heart.... as they never believed.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13


The second group did believe, and did receive the word and was joyful at receiving the seed.

Jesus said the key to being said was to believe. These folks believed... for a while, then fell away.

The problem came when the sun came up, and things began to "heat up", which represented persecution and tribulation, because of the seed, the message of the kingdom.

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.
Matthew 13:20-21


Jesus plainly said... Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13

These in this group never did produce fruit, [because they no longer believed, and therefore no longer did they abide, but fell away from the faith, under persecution.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Just like Judas took money FROM the money bag.

Do you believe Christians who steal are no longer saved?

Is that the point you are making?

 

[JLB]

This is a faulty assumption, not based on anything in the Bible. But please provide any verse that teaches that one must continue in faith in order to stay or be saved.

I see, so you believe that a person who believes the Gospel is saved, but a person who doesn't believe the Gospel is not saved.

So a person who believes for a while, the returns to unbelieving is still saved?


JLB

 

[ezra]

So a person who believes for a while, the returns to unbelieving is still saved?

they never was saved parable of the sower those that fell upon the good ground

 

[JLB]

I proved from Scripture that He died for OUR sins. Paul said so in 1 Cor 15:3.

You didn't prove anything that I have already said.

Jesus died for people, so they can be reconciled to God, because they have their sins forgiven.

21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

If you continue in the faith, and are not moved away from the hope of the Gospel... you are reconciled.

The same thing Paul teaches us from 1 Corinthians 15.

Let's look at the context , which you have repeatedly ignored because you never post the scripture, but only the scripture tag.

The context is where the truth is.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:1-8

Just like we are taught to continue in the faith and not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel [which is Salvation], so also Paul teaches us in 1 Corinthians 15, that we are to [continue] to hold fast what we first heard and received BY WHICH WE ARE SAVED.


Learn to read and post the context, and stop quoting a partial scripture, then tagging it with a scripture reference as if that is all the whole scripture says.


JLB

 

[JLB]

they never was saved parable of the sower those that fell upon the good ground

I didn't understand what you said here, could you rephrase?


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

You misunderstand. If a branch or field has ANY fruit of the Spirit, it is not subject to the burning at the Final Judgment.

In fact, there are no verses that teach that one must bear fruit or burn. If that were true, salvation is by works, which is totally against the teaching of Scripture, that one is saved by grace, through faith. Not of works.

 

[FreeGrace]

If believers are OSAS, why is it necessary that God put believers to death "so that we will not be condemned along with the world" (1 Corinthians 11:32 NASB), and "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:4 NASB)? If it were true that they were already irretrievably saved (OSAS) it would not be necessary to put them to death so that they will be saved.

God doesn't put to death believers so that they will be saved. He kills them (like He did to King Saul - 1 Chron 10:13,14) as a form of discipline. And those believers also lose reward (no inheritance) in eternity.

How does spending, oh, let's say an eternity, without any reward or inheritance sound? Inviting, or not so much?

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you have anything to share from the actual scripture and the language used by Jesus, now that you have stated your opinion?

No kidding! The very same thing has been asked of you many times. And none are provided. Those that have been provided have been shown easily to NOT be teaching LOS.

Please use the actual language and words from the scripture itself to validate your belief.

Another great statement that applies directly to LOS doctrine.

Here, I have expounded upon the truth's from the actual scripture, and the language used.

Well, maybe I've just been asleep at the switch. Please provide a clear and unambiguous verse that warns one of the potential for loss of salvation.

Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.Luke 8:12

http://biblia.com/bible/kjv1900/Luke 8.12
The verse is clear that this particular soil never believed. Did Jesus say that they did, like He did about the second soil? No.

Jesus said... lest they should believe and be saved.

Right. The phrase "lest they should believe" is a very clear statement about their NEVER having believed.

These by the wayside, never received the seed into their heart.... as they never believed.

Sure.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

So, where would one look to find the words "lose salvation" or anything that means that?

Jesus plainly said... Those who endure to the end will be saved. Matthew 24:13

Please check out the context; 7 year Tribulation. Whatever it means only applies to those in the Tribulation.

 

[FreeGrace]

I see, so you believe that a person who believes the Gospel is saved, but a person who doesn't believe the Gospel is not saved.

So a person who believes for a while, the returns to unbelieving is still saved?JLB

Yes, because the Bible teaches that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable. And Paul never excluded the gift of eternal life from being irrevocable.

Further, Jesus said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

There's no getting around these facts.

If ceasing to believe results in ceasing to be saved, the Bible would very clearly and unambiguously state that warning. But there is no such warning.

I'm not moved by assumptions or opinions, but what God's Word actually says.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"I proved from Scripture that He died for OUR sins. Paul said so in 1 Cor 15:3."

You didn't prove anything that I have already said.

Amazing! I agree with this statement! I wasn't trying to prove anything you already said. I REFUTED what you stated. Which was this: Christ died for people. But 1 Cor 15:3 says unambiguously that "Christ died for our sins". Which was my claim.

Jesus died for people, so they can be reconciled to God, because they have their sins forgiven.

Once again, I ask for any verse that says what is claimed here. 1 Cor 15:3 refutes this claim quite directly. Christ died for OUR SINS. And being forgiven is based on faith in Christ, as I showed from Acts 10:43.

Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that He was seen by Cephas, then by the twelve. 6 After that He was seen by over five hundred brethren at once, of whom the greater part remain to the present, but some have fallen asleep. 7 After that He was seen by James, then by all the apostles. 8 Then last of all He was seen by me also, as by one born out of due time. 1 Corinthians 15:1-8

I find it rather interesting of what is being claimed when the very verse that refutes your claim is quoted.

Just like we are taught to continue in the faith and not be moved away from the hope of the Gospel [which is Salvation], so also Paul teaches us in 1 Corinthians 15, that we are to [continue] to hold fast what we first heard and received BY WHICH WE ARE SAVED.

This is a total misunderstanding of v.2. The first and last phrases of v.2 are directly connected:
"by which you are saved"..."unless you believed in vain".

Paul is talking about "saving faith". Or not. To believe "in vain" means not having saving faith.

Learn to read and post the context, and stop quoting a partial scripture, then tagging it with a scripture reference as if that is all the whole scripture says.
JLB

I'll respectfully ask the very same from yourself. Learn to read the verses.

btw, there is nothing in any of the verses that I've quoted in which the context means something opposite of my views. And no one has shown otherwise.

So, if there is any disagreement with my views and the verses I use to support my views, please START showing how the context refutes my views.

 

[JLB]

No kidding! The very same thing has been asked of you many times. And none are provided. Those that have been provided have been shown easily to NOT be teaching LOS.

I posted and do post scripture when I share.

Looks like you are down to just making up lies about me and attacking me, instead of letting the scriptures speak for themselves.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.


Clearly the ones by the wayside were unbelieving, because the devil snatched the seed from their lest they should believe and be saved.


13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those on the rock, did believe... for awhile, then fell away.

This group returned to unbelieving.

Are you saying these in this second group are still saved, even though the returned to unbelieving?

or

Are you saying they were never saved?



JLB

 

[JLB]

Amazing! I agree with this statement! I wasn't trying to prove anything you already said. I REFUTED what you stated. Which was this: Christ died for people. But 1 Cor 15:3 says unambiguously that "Christ died for our sins". Which was my claim.

Christ died for us.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Romans 6:10


14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15


Christ died for all people, not for all sins.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us...


JLB

 

[JLB]

I'll respectfully ask the very same from yourself. Learn to read the verses.

btw, there is nothing in any of the verses that I've quoted in which the context means something opposite of my views. And no one has shown otherwise.

So, if there is any disagreement with my views and the verses I use to support my views, please START showing how the context refutes my views.

Most everything you post is half verse's taken out of context.

When the scripture and the context is written and expounded upon, you simply reply can't answer, so you say "that's silly", when the scriptures and their context are shown.

So, where would one look to find the words "lose salvation" or anything that means that?

From the context of His teaching...

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


Jesus used the word saved, in association with the Gospel message being preached.



JLB

 

[ezra]

I didn't understand what you said here, could you rephrase?


JLB

they was never saved the parable of the seeds the seed that fell upon the good ground stuck and produced . this thread is like beating a dead horse no use

 

[Jethro Bodine]

your confusing me do you believe in osas or not

Of course I'm non-OSAS. That's why I agree that it may be necessary for God to put a person on their death bed "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB). But if OSAS is true there is no need to do that so that they'll be saved on the Day of Christ because OSAS says they are already irrevocably saved. In OSAS there is no sin or absence of faith that can make it so God has to do something to you in order for your spirit to be saved on the Day of Christ.