What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[Jethro Bodine]

How do you take care how you build people?

It's 'how do you take care how you build people onto the foundation of Christ'.
See, the building of God looks like this:

"you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone" (Ephesians 2:19-20 NASB)

"5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5 NASB)

When a person makes a profession of faith they take their place, figuratively speaking, in the household of God described above, being stacked onto the foundation of Christ and the apostles and prophets. Peter calls us 'living stones'.

Presently this building of God is not pure. Some ministers have shared gospel messages that have put people into the building of God that are actually nothing more than 'hay, wood, and stubble', in that they are not really a person who can pass through the coming Judgement but will instead be burned in the Lake of Fire. The parable of the field by Jesus is where we see how the kingdom of God really does have false as well as true people in it, and who will be purged by fire at the Judgment (Matthew 13:36-43 NASB). Note Matthew 13:41 NASB especially...

"41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness"

In the same way, the kingdom of God in the analogy of the building of God also has people in it that are faithless "stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness" who the angels will put in the lake of fire and who won't pass through the Judgment safely. That's why "each man must be careful how he builds" (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB), because if they through sloth or doctrinal error 'build' 'stones' onto the foundation of Christ in the building and household of God that are really nothing more than hay, wood, and stubble that will get burned up at the Judgment that person will not have them around to be their "hope or joy or crown of exultation" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB) on the Day of Christ. They will lose the reward of their labor in the field and building of God. It will have been in vain (Philippians 2:16 NASB).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

God doesn't put to death believers so that they will be saved.

You are directly contradicting the Bible. Here's what the Bible says:

"5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)

"30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)

Paul very clearly says that when a believer dies because of their sin it is so they can be saved on the Day of Judgment, not condemned with the world. Why is this necessary, if there is no sin, no unbelief, no nothin' that can make it so a believer has any possibility of losing their salvation, that God has to kill them so they can be saved? You say they are already irretrievably saved and can't lose the salvation they have. But the Bible says that isn't true, because if a believer sins wantonly they will lose it, therefore, God has to discipline them so they won't.

There's no way around it, Freegrace. The Bible clearly shows us that God doesn't just discipline us to keep us in manifest fellowship with him. Paul says he does it "so (your) spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus".

 

[Jethro Bodine]

This is a total misunderstanding of v.2. The first and last phrases of v.2 are directly connected:
"by which you are saved"..."unless you believed in vain".

Paul is talking about "saving faith". Or not. To believe "in vain" means not having saving faith.

You haven't explained yet how the person who doesn't really have saving faith removes the condition to hold fast the word for those who really are saved:

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)


.

 

[JLB]

You haven't explained yet how the person who doesn't really have saving faith removes the condition to hold fast the word for those who really are saved:

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)


.

Nor has he explained how a person who believes for a while, then return's to unbelieving, yet according to him the unbelieving one is still saved.

JLB

 

[MarkT]

It's 'how do you take care how you build people onto the foundation of Christ'.
See, the building of God looks like this:

"you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone" (Ephesians 2:19-20 NASB)

"5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5 NASB)

When a person makes a profession of faith they take their place, figuratively speaking, in the household of God described above, being stacked onto the foundation of Christ and the apostles and prophets. Peter calls us 'living stones'.

Presently this building of God is not pure. Some ministers have shared gospel messages that have put people into the building of God that are actually nothing more than 'hay, wood, and stubble', in that they are not really a person who can pass through the coming Judgement but will instead be burned in the Lake of Fire. The parable of the field by Jesus is where we see how the kingdom of God really does have false as well as true people in it, and who will be purged by fire at the Judgment (Matthew 13:36-43 NASB). Note Matthew 13:41 NASB especially...

"41“The Son of Man will send forth His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness"

In the same way, the kingdom of God in the analogy of the building of God also has people in it that are faithless "stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness" who the angels will put in the lake of fire and who won't pass through the Judgment safely. That's why "each man must be careful how he builds" (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB), because if they through sloth or doctrinal error 'build' 'stones' onto the foundation of Christ in the building and household of God that are really nothing more than hay, wood, and stubble that will get burned up at the Judgment that person will not have them around to be their "hope or joy or crown of exultation" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB) on the Day of Christ. They will lose the reward of their labor in the field and building of God. It will have been in vain (Philippians 2:16 NASB).

When Paul uses words like 'the wisdom of God' and 'imparting spiritual truth', we know he is not talking about people being burned up, and when he says a man's work, he is not talking about the man. That's not to say a man can not have wood in his heart. For example, 'the instruction of idols is but wood!' Jer. 10:8 So the instruction is wood.

Paul said the man's work, likening the work to building a house, may be burned, that is, his house may burn down to the foundation if he builds with wood (the instruction of idols). But he says the man himself is saved. And Paul warns each man who builds on the doctrine/instruction of Christ to take care.

Now if anyone is wood, it would be the false teacher. Yet Paul said he is saved. So wood in this case is false doctrine/instruction. The doctrine/instruction is burned, but the man is saved, but only through fire.

My question was how can you take care how you build people on the foundation? You say stones are built by this slothful false minister of the word that are not stones but wood, and hay and stubble, and this minster loses people? Why would you think the false minister would not be burned as well? How can it be the false minister gets into heaven and the people he taught are burned?

 

[MarkT]

Let's say Paul laboured to bring the gospel to the Corinthians and they believed. Some then fall away and are lost. So he loses people. What more could Paul do to take care what people he builds with? To ensure he doesn't build with wood?

Paul building with wood. I don't think so. But anyways....

Are people wood and hay and gold and precious stones to begin with? If they are wood, then they would fall away and be burned regardless.

But if the people are wood, how would it count as a loss? Why would Paul want them around as a reward? I can see losing a precious stone might count as a loss. But wood?

Anyways, 1 Cor. 3:10-15 is not about people. Paul said let each man take care how he builds on the foundation he laid. Sounds like a personal house to me.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's say Paul laboured to bring the gospel to the Corinthians and they believed. Some then fall away and are lost. So he loses people. What more could Paul do to take care what people he builds with? To ensure he doesn't build with wood?

He can't do any more. He has done what he has done. Others are building on the foundation he laid there. His exhortation is to other ministers who build on the foundation of Christ he laid there at Corinth:

"10 like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work." (1 Corinthians 3:10,12-13 NASB).

If somebody comes along and adds people to the church, the building and household of God (Ephesians 2:19-20 NASB) but adds people who in reality aren't going to make it through the Judgment because the message they heard did not prepare them for the Judgment, or makes those already in the building of God now unprepared for the Day of Judgment, that work of adding people to the kingdom is likened as to building with hay, wood, and stubble, meaning it will not be able to withstand the coming Judgment by fire. There is no reward for that kind of work accomplished. It doesn't survive the fire of "the day", the day Christ judges mankind.

Paul building with wood. I don't think so. But anyways....

Right. Paul didn't do that. He's warning others not to do that. But obviously, the warning applies to him too. He also must run his ministerial race in such as a way as to gain the prize, meaning he also must labor at the task of adding people to the kingdom in such a way that will win the prize. He talks about that in 1 Corinthians 9:19-27 NASB. Here's a snippet:

"Run in such a way that you may win. 25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (for the prize--vs.24)." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NASB)

But if the people are wood, how would it count as a loss?

Because the people you minister to here who will then be with you on the other side are your reward:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

But if those who you ministered to didn't really get saved, or failed to hold fast the word, they will be like hay, wood, and stubble in the Judgment and will be burned up, not pass through it safely like precious gems and metals can pass through fire, and so they will not be on the other side of the Judgment for them to your reward. There is no reward for people made of wood. So don't build the building with that kind of people. If you do your labor will have been in vain because you won't have the people you ministered to as your reward for your labor in the field and building of God:

"prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory (in you) because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB)

Why would Paul want them around as a reward? I can see losing a precious stone might count as a loss. But wood?

The point is there is no reward in the kingdom to come for adding people to that kingdom of God who, figuratively speaking, will be as hay, wood, and stubble at the Judgment and will be burned up. Only people, figuratively speaking, made of material that can survive fire (gems, precious metals) will emerge on the other side of the Judgment to be the reward for the worker's labor in the building of God. That's why Paul tells us that everyone and anyone who labors in the building of God should be careful how he builds, so he can receive the reward for his work accomplished in the building of God. If he builds with wood he will have no reward for his labor because the reward for that labor--the people he ministers to--will get burned up in the Judgment and won't be with him for them to be his reward.

Anyways, 1 Cor. 3:10-15 is not about people. Paul said let each man take care how he builds on the foundation he laid. Sounds like a personal house to me.

I recognize that application. But Paul alludes to so many other Biblical passages that it makes it clear that he is talking about the workman's labor in the entire household and building and field of God, not his or anyone else's own personal building and field of God.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

My question was how can you take care how you build people on the foundation? You say stones are built by this slothful false minister of the word that are not stones but wood, and hay and stubble, and this minster loses people? Why would you think the false minister would not be burned as well? How can it be the false minister gets into heaven and the people he taught are burned?

The minister who is himself false will get burned up and destroyed in the fire too (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB). But the true minister who is simply too lazy or unmotivated or undisciplined to run his ministerial race with zeal and the determination to win the prize will simply fail to win the prize (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NASB). He himself will be saved, but only his own skin is saved. He failed to build in such a way so as to win the prize for his effort meaning he brings nothing with him into the kingdom to be that reward for him. He slips through safely but only as one with the fires of Judgment licking at his feet. Everyone else he might of have had with him having been burned off in that fire.

 

[chessman]

Please point out what you see from the scripture.

Please use the actual language and words from the scripture itself to validate your belief.


JLB

Luke 8:12 (LEB) and those beside the path are the ones who have heard. Then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved. ​

I believe it is clear this soil heard The Word and even had The Word in their heart, yet did not have the Gospel belief which is necessary for their salvation. Nor did they have what is necessary to bear any fruit.

I believe it is clear that you directly contradicted Jesus' interpretation of this soil by the following statement:

These by the wayside, never received the seed into their heart.... as they never believed.

As my previous posted pointed out your Biblical contradiction as well.

Directly contradicts Jesus' interpretation here:

Luke 8:11-12 (LEB) Now the parable means this: the seed is the word of God, and those beside the path are the ones who have heard. Then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they may not believe and be saved.

The Devil takes it FROM their heart. He doesn't prohibit The Word from entering their hearts.

Luke 8:13 (LEB) And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away. ​

I belive it is clear that Jesus doesn't say (one way or the other) if this rock were ever saved to begin with. Yes they believed with joy. But as they were tested, they fell away from their joyful belief. It would be an assumption to claim they were saved by having merely heard the seed (The Word) as lot's of people hear The Gospel yet it does not penetrate into their hardened spirit. Their spirts are as hard as a rock. A prosperity gospel believer, comes to mind.

Similarly, Jesus doesn't say anything about the salvation of either of the next two soil types. Thus, it is impossible to claim that He does, Biblically speaking.

The only thing we know for sure from this parable is only the last soil type produces any fruit and that the first soil type were not saved.

 

[chessman]

Are you purposely ignoring the fact that John says the person who is obviously a child of the devil, as seen to us, is not saved?

No, neither purposely nor unpurposely.

You are trying to make a connection between bearing no fruit and being saved that John clearly says does not exist.

No, I merely pointed out that it seems to me that you are looking at fruitfulness (bearing fruit) legalistically.

It just seems to me that you are looking at fruitfulness legalistically

I'm glad to see you do not personally believe there is a connection between bearing no fruit and being saved. That's correct. Bearing no fruit means a person does not bear fruit. It doesn't mean they do not bear salvation.

And that is what fruitless branches and fields have to look forward to--being destroyed, not lovingly pruned back.

Okay then. Are you using destroyed here in the sense of being unsaved??? I guess not since you just said John clearly says there's no connection.

 

[FreeGrace]

I posted and do post scripture when I share.

My comment was misunderstood. You've been asked numerous times to quote Scripture that actually says that one can lose their salvation. That has not yet been provided. None of the Scriptures that have been posted say anything about losing salvation. The only way one might think any of those verses are about losing salvation is by assumption.

Looks like you are down to just making up lies about me and attacking me, instead of letting the scriptures speak for themselves.

If I've made up any lie about any of your posts, please specify the post #. Or just quit making these absurd claims.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.

Clearly the ones by the wayside were unbelieving, because the devil snatched the seed from their lest they should believe and be saved.

This isn't in debate. Of course they never believed. Jesus was quite clear about that.

13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Those on the rock, did believe... for awhile, then fell away.
This group returned to unbelieving.
Are you saying these in this second group are still saved, even though the returned to unbelieving?

Why does this question keep popping up? It's been answered ad nauseum.

The Bible SAYS that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The Bible SAYS that eternal life is a gift of God.
The Bible NEVER SAID that eternal life was excluded from God's irrevocable gifts.

Therefore...one who has believed continues to have eternal life, and continues to be saved. And will face the discipline of God, which may be quite severe. They will not "get away" with anything, which seems to be the greatest fear among the LOS followers.

Are you saying they were never saved?
JLB

They believed, therefore, they are saved. And those who believe HAVE eternal life, according to Jesus in John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

I will assume that the meaning of the present tense "has" is well understood by all.

And Jesus also promised that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH, in John 10:28.

Please address any of my points here that are incorrect. Specifically.

 

[FreeGrace]

Christ died for us.

For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. Romans 6:10


14 For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died; 15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves, but for Him who died for them and rose again. 2 Corinthians 5:14-15


Christ died for all people, not for all sins.

I see. So, your view contradicts the clear words of Scripture then. Because 1 Cor 15:3 actually says that Christ died for our sins. "For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures,"

Of course He died on our behalf, but His purpose was to pay for our sins. That's why He went to the cross.

If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us...
JLB

Yes, to restore fellowship after becoming "impure" through personal sin. Please note the context of ch 1 of 1 Jn. It's about fellowship, not relationship.

 

[JLB]

I believe it is clear this soil heard The Word and even had The Word in their heart, yet did not have the Gospel belief which is necessary for their salvation. Nor did they have what is necessary to bear any fruit.

Ok

I believe it is clear that you directly contradicted Jesus' interpretation of this soil by the following statement:

These by the wayside, never received the seed into their heart.... as they never believed.

The seed was sown in their heart, because they heard the word.

They did not understand, and therefore did not believe... IOW the seed did not penetrate into ground, but just laying on top of the hard packed, well traveled ground, exposed to be eaten, rather than into the ground and covered where it could germinate.

19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received [4687] the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives [2983] it with joy; Matthew 13:19-20

These by the wayside heard the word, but didn't take hold of it, as it never sprouted from a root system.

It seems you are trying to build a case on the word "receive".



Strong's G2983 - lambanō

1. to take
   
   1. to take with the hand, lay hold of, any person or thing in order to use it
      
      1. to take up a thing to be carried
         
         
      2. to take upon one's self
         
   2. to take in order to carry away
      
      1. without the notion of violence, i,e to remove, take away
         
   3. to take what is one's own, to take to one's self, to make one's own
      
      1. to claim, procure, for one's self
         
         1. to associate with one's self as companion, attendant
            
      2. of that which when taken is not let go, to seize, to lay hold of, apprehend
         
         
      3. to take by craft (our catch, used of hunters, fisherman, etc.), to circumvent one by fraud
         
         
      4. to take to one's self, lay hold upon, take possession of, i.e. to appropriate to one's self
         
         
      5. catch at, reach after, strive to obtain
         
         
      6. to take a thing due, to collect, gather (tribute)
         
   4. to take
      
      1. to admit, receive
         
         
      2. to receive what is offered
         
         
      3. not to refuse or reject
         
         
      4. to receive a person, give him access to one's self,
         
         1. to regard any one's power, rank, external circumstances, and on that account to do some injustice or neglect something
            
   5. to take, to choose, select
      
      
   6. to take beginning, to prove anything, to make a trial of, to experience
      
2. to receive (what is given), to gain, get, obtain, to get back
   

Strong's G4687 - speirō

1. to sow, scatter, seed
2. metaph. of proverbial sayings
   

JLB

 

[chessman]

He can't do any more. He has done what he has done.

The letters of 1st and 2nd Corinthians is chock full of Paul doing more.

 

[FreeGrace]

Most everything you post is half verse's taken out of context.

Please show how that is any kind of issue with my views. We already know how context is ignored when we see the verse about "enduring to the end" in your posts.

But, to your point, how does your claim prove anything? And since the claim is ambiguous anyway, "most everything" could mean almost anything. So give me a real example of what is being charged, and how any of it was taken out of context.

When the scripture and the context is written and expounded upon, you simply reply can't answer, so you say "that's silly", when the scriptures and their context are shown.

How absurd! I've given answers to EVERY ONE of your "interpretations" of the verses in your posts.

The truth is that there have been NO responses in your posts of my interpretations.

So, let's clear this up and see who really gives answers. I'll repost my understanding (interpretation) of 1 Thess 5:4-10:

Paul stated that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, or "whether we are asleep or awake, we will be together with Him" in 1 Thess 5:10. The context begins in v.4 and contrasts believers with unbelievers, or day with night, or being alert with being asleep or sober with drunkeness.

4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day would overtake you like a thief;
5 for you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness;
6 so then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be alert and sober.
7 For those who sleep do their sleeping at night, and those who get drunk get drunk at night.
8 But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
9 For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.

Analysis of this passage:
v.4 tells us that believers are "not in darkness"
v.5 differentiates believers (sons of light and day) with unbelievers (not of night or darkness).
v.6 encourages believers to not live like unbelievers (not sleep as others do, but be alert and sober).
v.7 describes unbelievers and what they do.
v.8 explains that "since we are of the day" (believers), we need to be sober.
v.9 explains the destiny of the believer - not destined for wrath but for salvation
v.10 says that regardless of the believer's lifestyle, we will live together with Him.

OK, please address each verse, as I just did, and explain how and why my explanation is incorrect, if you disagree with any of it. If, otoh, there is nothing to disagree with, then there won't be any reason to respond to my interpretation.

So, I'll take no response as agreement with my interpretation.

From the context of His teaching...

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. Luke 8:12


Jesus used the word saved, in association with the Gospel message being preached.
JLB

Not really. Read a bit more carefully. The word "saved" is in association with "believe". No one is saved by the preaching of the gospel. While necessary so that one can be saved, the preaching doesn't save anyone. It's only when one believes the gospel being preached that they are saved.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I'm glad to see you do not personally believe there is a connection between bearing no fruit and being saved. That's correct.

I didn't say that. If I said that I'd be in direct contradiction with the Bible. What I said was ANY fruit bearing is the sign of being saved.
Your problem is you are viewing fruitfulness as works X, Y, and Z, when bearing the fruit of the Spirit is about being changed in character--beng a new creation. He explained that to the legalistic Galatians who were grasping for literal obediences of the law:

"15For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation." (Galatians 6:15 NASB)

Having the Holy Spirit is like being pregnant. You aren't partially pregnant. You either are or are you aren't. But all along the way are the growing signs of the new life that is in you, until finally, on the last day that new life emerges in it's unhindered fullness.

"19 My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you" (Galatians 4:19 NASB)

But people who simply never show any of the signs of that growing life inside of them are....well...not pregnant. It's that simple. Barren women are under a curse.

 

[FreeGrace]

Of course I'm non-OSAS. That's why I agree that it may be necessary for God to put a person on their death bed "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB). But if OSAS is true there is no need to do that so that they'll be saved on the Day of Christ because OSAS says they are already irrevocably saved.

Why would anyone ignore the fact that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable, and that the Bible NEVER excludes the gift of eternal life from being irrevocable.

The issue is SOOOOO important that if this gift could be revoked, lost, forfeited, or any other word indicating that one who has believed may still end up in hell, the Bible certainly would have made that crystal clear.

Yet, LOS doctrine is forced to make huge assumptions about verses that are anything but clear about losing salvation. In fact, all of the verses quoted by LOS doctrine can and HAVE BEEN shown to be teaching something else, and NOT teaching LOS.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why would anyone ignore the fact that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable, and that the Bible NEVER excludes the gift of eternal life from being irrevocable.

Wonderful.
Now explain why a sinning person who is saved has to die so they can be saved on the day of Christ (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB).

 

[JLB]

Luke 8:13 (LEB) And those on the rock are those who receive the word with joy when they hear it, and these do not have enough root, who believe for a time and in a time of testing fall away.
I belive it is clear that Jesus doesn't say (one way or the other) if this rock were ever saved to begin with.

OK, so you don't know whether they were saved or not.

According to what you believe, and what OSAS teaches, is there something more to being saved, than believing?

If so, then please tell me, what more it is someone must do to be saved, than believe?

Please keep in mind that the previous verse says... lest the believe and be saved.




JLB

 

[JLB]

Similarly, Jesus doesn't say anything about the salvation of either of the next two soil types. Thus, it is impossible to claim that He does, Biblically speaking.

I see, so when Jesus said... believe and be saved, in association with hearing the Gospel, He really didn't mean salvation by faith, but something else?



JLB