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What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

You are directly contradicting the Bible. Here's what the Bible says:

"5I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus." (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB)

"30For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep. 31But if we judged ourselves rightly, we would not be judged. 32But when we are judged, we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned along with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:30-32 NASB)


Paul very clearly says that when a believer dies because of their sin it is so they can be saved on the Day of Judgment, not condemned with the world. Why is this necessary, if there is no sin, no unbelief, no nothin' that can make it so a believer has any possibility of losing their salvation, that God has to kill them so they can be saved? You say they are already irretrievably saved and can't lose the salvation they have.
I say it because the Bible says it.

However, let's examine the phrase "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" in 1 Cor 5:5. First, this is the ONLY verse in the NT that speaks of one's "spirit being saved". Yet, the saving of one's "soul/life" is common.

Second, the verb "sozo" is often used in the NT refer to being healed or being healthy: Matt 9:21-22, Mark 5:23, 28, 34, 6:56, 10:52, Luke 7:50, 8:36, 48, 50, 17:19, 18:42, Acts 4:9, 14:9, James 5:15.

It is therefore Paul's desire that this man's spirit be healthy in the day of the Lord, which is a reference to the Bema. iow, Paul wanted this man to respond to church discipline, plus the discipline of being under Satan's suffering. If he does respond to this form of discipline, he WILL be "healthy" at the Bema, which is the point of discipline in the first place.

It's always a problem when every use of "saved" is taken as eternal soul salvation.

But the Bible says that isn't true, because if a believer sins wantonly they will lose it, therefore, God has to discipline them so they won't.
No where does the Bible say that salvation can be lost.

There's no way around it, Freegrace.
I just gave the correct understanding of the passage. Heb 12 teaches about God's chastisement and its purpose. And that idea fits 1 Cor 5:5 perfectly. LOS cannot be the meaning, because of all the verses that teach ES.
 
Nor has he explained how a person who believes for a while, then return's to unbelieving, yet according to him the unbelieving one is still saved.
JLB
Please read my posts before making such an absurd claim.

The Bible SAYS that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The Bible SAYS that eternal life is a gift of God
The Bible NEVER SAYS that eternal life is excluded from God's irrevocable gifts.

That's why one stays saved.
 
You haven't explained yet how the person who doesn't really have saving faith removes the condition to hold fast the word for those who really are saved:

"you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB).
There is no need for such an absurd explanation.

One who isn't saved isn't an issue in 1 Cor 15:2. The key is to understand the first and last phrases:
"you are saved"..."unless you believed in vain".

If one is saved, then they POSSESS (hold fast) the word.

I've explained this many times. So quit making these absurd claims.
 
I said this:
"Why would anyone ignore the fact that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable, and that the Bible NEVER excludes the gift of eternal life from being irrevocable."
Wonderful.
Now explain why a sinning person who is saved has to die so they can be saved on the day of Christ (1 Corinthians 5:5 NASB).
See post #401. I laid it out all nice and clear.
 
Yes, to restore fellowship after becoming "impure" through personal sin. Please note the context of ch 1 of 1 Jn. It's about fellowship, not relationship.

So what your teaching is people can sin, and be disobedient by practicing the works of the flesh, and it's not really sin anymore, but "personal sin"?

Here is some context -

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 1:9-2:3

Knowing Him is eternal life.

This is how we know that we know Him... if we keep His commandments.

If we live a sinful life, we are not keeping His commandments, and there do not know Him.

If we do sin, then we confess our sin, and are cleansed.

Your whole doctrine validates and promotes sin, so that people are comfortable practicing sin.

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2;6-8

Those Christians who live in sin and disobedience to the Spirit of God within them, and obey unrighteousness will receive from God the just payment for their deeds... Eternal Death.

Those Christians who overcome, and by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh, who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; will receive eternal life.

This is called fruit unto holiness, and in the end it brings forth everlasting life... in which those who are slaves of God produce the fruit of the kingdom of God.

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23


JLB
 
"Why would anyone ignore the fact that eternal life is a gift of God, and that God's gifts are irrevocable, and that the Bible NEVER excludes the gift of eternal life from being irrevocable."


The bible never states that eternal live is an irrevocable gift.

Here is what you are claiming.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

And what's so sad, is you teach this a sound doctrine.

JLB
 
Please read my posts before making such an absurd claim.

The Bible SAYS that God's gifts are irrevocable.
The Bible SAYS that eternal life is a gift of God
The Bible NEVER SAYS that eternal life is excluded from God's irrevocable gifts.

That's why one stays saved.

The bible never says eternal life is irrevocable.

That's the absurdity of what you say.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
 
He can't do any more. He has done what he has done. Others are building on the foundation he laid there. His exhortation is toother ministers who build on the foundation of Christ he laid there at Corinth:

I don't think Paul was exhorting the church at Corinth to build with people. That's the point. How would they understand that? We are people? Exhorting the church to build with wisdom, knowledge and understanding would make sense.
 
Right. Paul didn't do that. He's warning others not to do that. But obviously, the warning applies to him too. He also must run his ministerial race in such as a way as to gain the prize, meaning he also must labor at the task of adding people to the kingdom in such a way that will win the prize. He talks about that in 1 Corinthians 9:19-27 NASB. Here's a snippet:

"Run in such a way that you may win. 25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (for the prize--vs.24)." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NASB)

Well, how would Paul know in advance whether he is building with wood or not? And what can Paul and others do to prevent it? You're saying Paul didn't build with wood. How do you know that?
 
"Run in such a way that you may win. 25Everyone who competes in the games exercises self-control in all things. They then do it to receive a perishable wreath, but we an imperishable. 26Therefore I run in such a way, as not without aim; I box in such a way, as not beating the air; 27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified (for the prize--vs.24)." (1 Corinthians 9:24-27 NASB)

Here he is talking about discipling his body to make it obey him. He is not talking about adding people to the kingdom.
 
Because the people you minister to here who will then be with you on the other side are your reward:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming?" (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

But if those who you ministered to didn't really get saved, or failed to hold fast the word, they will be like hay, wood, and stubble in the Judgment and will be burned up, not pass through it safely like precious gems and metals can pass through fire, and so they will not be on the other side of the Judgment for them to your reward. There is no reward for people made of wood. So don't build the building with that kind of people. If you do your labor will have been in vain because you won't have the people you ministered to as your reward for your labor in the field and building of God:

"prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory (in you) because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB)

That might certainly be rewarding, But I don't see anywhere in the gospel or in the Scriptures where people are the reward. Paul talks about receiving our inheritance as the reward. Col. 3:24 To be the sons of God. To get a better seat at the table; that could be the reward. Paul doesn't say. He says,'a reward'. Perhaps more knowledge, more wisdom, more understanding.
 
The point is there is no reward in the kingdom to come for adding people to that kingdom of God who, figuratively speaking, will be as hay, wood, and stubble at the Judgment and will be burned up. Only people, figuratively speaking, made of material that can survive fire (gems, precious metals) will emerge on the other side of the Judgment to be the reward for the worker's labor in the building of God. That's why Paul tells us that everyone and anyone who labors in the building of God should be careful how he builds, so he can receive the reward for his work accomplished in the building of God. If he builds with wood he will have no reward for his labor because the reward for that labor--the people he ministers to--will get burned up in the Judgment and won't be with him for them to be his reward.

You don't think adding people to the kingdom is God's work? God draws people to his Son. John 6:44, John 6:45 People hear the voice of the Shepherd and they follow him.

I understand blessed are the feet of the messenger, which would include Paul and others, but it is God who gives growth if by growth you mean growing the church in numbers.
 
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So what your teaching is people can sin, and be disobedient by practicing the works of the flesh, and it's not really sin anymore, but "personal sin"?
What in the world are you talking about??? All sin is personal. Please prove this insinuation that there are sins that are not personal, or are only impersonal.

Here is some context -

9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His word is not in us.
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. 2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.
3 Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 1:9-2:3
Correct, this is just "some context". Certainly not ALL of the context, which has been conveniently ignored.

1 Jn 1:3-8
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.
5 This is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is Light, and in Him there is no darkness at all.
6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth;
7 but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us.

So, go ahead and claim that none of these verses are in context with v.9. Or, claim that fellowship has nothing to do with the first chapter of 1 John.

It seems to me more and more that the concept of "fellowship" has no place in LOS doctrine. I sure haven't seen any explanations that include fellowship in posts.

Your whole doctrine validates and promotes sin, so that people are comfortable practicing sin.
This is absurd and nonsense. Those who actually read my posts know that the Bible is clear about God's chastisement for rebellious children, including weakness, sickness and physical death. And not the "quick and painless" kind of death either, but by the hand of Satan, per 1 Cor 5:5. Just ask Job how well Satan understands how to make humans suffer.

Why these points of mine continue to be dismissed or ignored is puzzling. It seems to me that some just do not want to learn what the Bible teaches.

who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2;6-8
By now, there is no excuse for repeating this passage, as it's been thoroughly explained and your view of it has been completely debunked. Just read Rom 3:20 to know what Paul actually taught about "continuance in doing good".

"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." I think there is agreement that "by continuance of doing good" could be understood as doing "the works of the Law".

Yet, Paul was clear: NO ONE will be justified by the works of the Law. What part of "no one" or "no flesh" isn't real clear here?

Those Christians who live in sin and disobedience to the Spirit of God within them, and obey unrighteousness will receive from God the just payment for their deeds... Eternal Death.
This opinion continues to be unsubstantiated. Scripture doesn't teach what is claimed.

Those Christians who overcome, and by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the flesh, who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; will receive eternal life.
Good luck in continuance in doing good. Paul not only wrote Rom 3:20, which refutes any notion that anyone CAN "continue to do good", but he also wrote this:
"as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one;" Rom 3:10

This is called fruit unto holiness, and in the end it brings forth everlasting life.
The Bible disagrees with this statement. The Bible tells us that WHEN one believes, they HAVE eternal life.
John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."
 
The bible never states that eternal live is an irrevocable gift.
One is free to believe anything they desire to believe. But this is what the Bible SAYS:
The gifts of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
Eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23
There are NO VERSES that exclude the gift of eternal life from irrevocable gifts.

Therefore my statement is completely biblical and true.

Here is what you are claiming.
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
So, please explain how the lined through words change anything I have claimed. I do not see how that is possible. But please try anyway.

Further, by citing and quoting the full verse, I've NOT denied what has been lined through. It is only your imagination that assumes that I have denied the lined through words.

But I'm waiting for an explanation of how the lined out words change anything at all.

And what's so sad, is you teach this a sound doctrine.
JLB
What I claim is biblical and I've proven it repeatedly. Sound doctrine is biblical. Unsound doctrine is unbiblical, which is LOS doctrine.

What is actually sad is that the claims of LOS doctrine are based solely on assumption, without any substance to support its claims.
 
Here he is talking about discipling his body to make it obey him.
Yes....disciplining his body to obey him in a way so as to run the race to win the prize, not run in a slothful or coerced way that does not win the prize. He even explains how he disciplines his body in regard to Jews so he can win as many as possible (1 Corinthians 9:19-20 NASB). I hope you are hovering over the Bible links that I'm posting that support what I'm saying. It saves time for me not to post every single one of them.

You're saying Paul didn't build with wood. How do you know that?
"the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved" (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

Paul himself says the Corinthians are indeed saved. So we know they did not get built by Paul into material like hay, wood, and stubble that will get burned up at the Judgment......that is as long as they hold fast the word:
"if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

I don't think Paul was exhorting the church at Corinth to build with people. That's the point. How would they understand that? We are people? Exhorting the church to build with wisdom, knowledge and understanding would make sense.
Wisdom makes sense in the context of building up the temple of God insofar as what wisdom they use in discerning the ministers of the word that labor among them. By warning them to have the wisdom to follow Christ and not segregate themselves according to various popular or charismatic teachers that work in their part of God's field and building, Paul is helping them to discern who is building them up in preparation for the coming Judgment, and who is not. The 'false angels of light' teachers among them boasted of themselves, while Paul and his entourage did not. By not dividing themselves under various teachers, but under Christ alone, they show mature wisdom, and then ensure that they get built up into that which can survive the coming Judgment.

That might certainly be rewarding, But I don't see anywhere in the gospel or in the Scriptures where people are the reward.
I've been posting it repeatedly. Here it is again:
"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 NASB)

I don't think Paul was exhorting the church at Corinth to build with people.
Right. He's explaining how anybody who labors in their part of God's field and building needs to be careful how they build for fear of them not being properly built up into that which can survive the coming Judgment. In so doing so he's sharing the mature wisdom of being careful to discern who is building them up into mere hay, wood, and stubble that will get burned up, and who is building them up into that which can withstand fire.
 
Yes....disciplining his body to obey him in a way so as to run the race to win the prize, not run in a slothful or coerced way that does not win the prize. He even explains how he disciplines his body in regard to Jews so he can win as many as possible (1 Corinthians 9:19-20 NASB). I hope you are hovering over the Bible links that I'm posting that support what I'm saying. It saves time for me not to post every single one of them.

Paul doesn't say to win them for himself as if they are the prize. He says he has made himself a slave to all men to win them for the gospel so he can share in the blessings of the gospel.

Regarding the prize, he says the prize is an imperishable wreath. 1 Cor. 3:25, suggesting an eternal inheritance. And he calls the inheritance the reward for serving the Lord - 'Whatever your task, work heartily, as serving the Lord and not men, knowing that from the Lord you will receive the inheritance as your reward; you are serving the Lord Christ. Col. 3:24

Regarding his body he says he subjects his body to make it obey him, lest after preaching to others to exercise self control he himself should be disqualified.

In all this, I don't see anything about people being the work that gets burned or the reward that is received that Paul is talking about in 1 Cor. 3:10-15
 
"the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved" (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB)

Paul himself says the Corinthians are indeed saved. So we know they did not get built by Paul into material like hay, wood, and stubble that will get burned up at the Judgment......that is as long as they hold fast the word:
"if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Oh. So if Paul said, 'You are saved', everyone hearing him is saved.

And now they are built into material rather than being material Paul built with. Yet Paul said, "It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father’s wife. 2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you." 1 Cor. 5:1-2

Looks like Paul built with wood, at least in this case.
 
i am to the point of losing all interest in this thread. i have many times posted my view on the security of our salvation . i have showed scriptures etc.. . i am not about to attempt to change any body mind . i stand where i stand by studying scriptures. i have compared general baptist teaching and southern baptist . these are the 2 main streams on either osas or los . here is my question at what point or what sin will cause us to lose our salvation and be eternally damned .. this is something we must think about when passing judgment . yes we are all guilty of it... something to ponder all have sinned and come short.. so have we ever reached the point of danger had we died at that moment . would you or we committed this sin? Be honest :amen:thinking
 
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