What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[FreeGrace]

The sin that isn't forgiven.

If a person is an unbeliever, they don't believe in Jesus Christ, for the forgiveness of their sins.

If a person believes for a while, then no longer believes anymore, then how does his sin get forgiven?
JLB

Christ died for OUR sins. That's Paul's evangelistic message to the Corinthians, when they were unbelievers, and what they believed when they believed.

The Bible says so. 1 Cor 15:11 - Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"But this is what the Bible SAYS:
The gifts of God are irrevocable. Rom 11:29
Eternal life is a gift of God. Rom 6:23"

Let's see what those verse's say.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. Romans 11:29
Nope, these verse's say more than what you claim.

I never said that they didn't. But you've never shown how what else they say changes anything I've said, and it seems there is unwillingness to explain your point, whatever it is.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

This is what you are asking people to do, to receive your version of the scripture.

I'm not asking anyone to do anything. By citing these verses, I fully expect that reasonable people will actually see what each verse says in totality. [edited]

If we can strike and splice two different scriptures together, by ignoring part of one, and 99% of the other, the anyone could make a mockery of the bible, having it say what they want.[//QUOTE]
I've never done that, as everyone well knows.

But, let's examine what is SAID in both verses: "gift of God" in 6:23 and "gifts of God" in 11:29. So they are directly connected by the subject of God's gifts.

6:23 is singular, and 11:29 is plural. Why? Because Paul described 3 specific gifts of God before he wrote 11:29. And 6:23 is one of them, which is eternal life. So eternal life is included in 11:29, and no one has shown otherwise.

Example:
For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

It's by taking in the whole scripture and surrounding context, together with the rest of the scriptures that we find the whole truth.

Lining out "for the gifts and the calling of God are" in 11:29 is dishonest, as I've never excluded the FACT that 11:29 mentions the gifts of God. In fact, it is precisely because 11:29 mentions "gifts of God" that it is directly related and connected to 6:23.

We are not to try and build a doctrine off off one scripture, let alone a part of a scripture, and a part of another scripture, "spliced together".
JLB

Your claims are preposterous. And unsubstantiated.

 

[FreeGrace]

Is your soul. spirit or flesh?
JLB

The soul and spirit are immaterial. Flesh is material. Is there any difference?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

If one is saved, then they POSSESS (hold fast) the word.

Yes, "you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Of course, if a person didn't really believe in the first place (your interpretation of "unless you believed in vain") makes the "if you hold fast the word" part irrelevant to them. What you haven't explained is how just because some people may not have really believed Paul's message in the first place makes it so holding fast the word is not a condition for those who did really believe the message and got saved.

We don't need to talk about those who didn't really believe Paul's gospel. The 'if' condition for saved people remaining saved is obviously irrelevant to them. Explain to us how "you are saved, if you hold fast the word" (vs. 2) is not a condition for those who really are saved people just because there may be some among them who did not really believe.

In keeping with this thread, if someone comes along with the message that saved people don't have to hold fast the word that they believed and were saved by in order to be saved now, and they then stop holding fast the word by which they were saved by, then that person who brought that message will have no reward for their labor in the kingdom because those people who did not hold fast the word will not pass through the fires of Judgment for them to be that reward for them there (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB).

And worse, that person who brought that message would be tearing down the temple of God thereby subjecting themselves to destruction (1 Corinthians 3:17 NASB). I would hope that all you people who are telling saved Christians that you don't have to continue to believe to continue to be saved know the very dangerous outcome for those who bear such a message.

 

[JLB]

The soul and spirit are immaterial. Flesh is material. Is there any difference?

It was you who were attempting to discredit the verse that says , "his spirit would be saved", and not his soul, to which I asked, and continue to ask you: Is the soul spirit of flesh?

However, let's examine the phrase "so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus" in 1 Cor 5:5. First, this is the ONLY verse in the NT that speaks of one's "spirit being saved". Yet, the saving of one's "soul/life" is common.

Your insinuation that Paul meant some other type of salvation, rather than the salvation of the soul that comes at the end, when Jesus returns, is comical.

We are saved at the end, when the Lord will render to each one according to their deeds:

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
• but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

Eternal life comes at the end, to those who have the fruit unto holiness, as a slave unto God:

• you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23

and again

6 In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith,being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory,9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:6-9

and again

He who endure's to the end shall be saved. Matthew 24:13 [Matthew 13:20-21 same context of tribulation and persecution.]

20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

JLB

 

[chessman]

You misunderstand. If a branch or field has ANY fruit of the Spirit, it is not subject to the burning

Actually, it is you that is misunderstanding Jesus' use of the vinedresser metaphor. Have you ever cultivated grape vines? In order to maximize their fruit production you have to prune/cut and burn not just the branches that are not producing fruit but also the ones that are. That way they produce even more fruit next year.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Actually, it is you that is misunderstanding Jesus' use of the vinedresser metaphor. [...] In order to maximize their fruit production you have to prune/cut and burn not just the branches that are not producing fruit but also the ones that are.

You're still misunderstanding.
Fruitful branches are cut BACK.
Fruitless branches are cut OFF.

"2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away..."
"...every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit."
(John 15:2 NASB)

 

[Eugene]

Were you aware that believe and obey are synonymous?

JLB, I do not see that the two words Believe & Obey are synonymous; do you have scriptural reference material?

Num 20:12 And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed (Strong’s H539) me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore ye shall not bring this congregation into the land which I have given them.

The KJV translates Strongs H539 in the following manner: believe (44x), assurance (1x),faithful (20x), sure (11x), established (7x), trust (5x), verified (3x), stedfast (2x), continuance (2x),father (2x), bring up (4x), nurse (2x), be nursed (1x), surely be (1x), stand fast (1x), fail (1x), trusty (1x)

Gen 27:8 Now therefore, my son, obey (Strong’s H8085) my voice according to that which I command thee.

The KJV translates Strongs H8085 in the following manner: hear (785x), hearken (196x),obey (81x), publish (17x), understand (9x), obedient (8x), diligently (8x), shew (6x), sound (3x),declare (3x), discern (2x), noise (2x), perceive (2x), tell (2x), reported (2x), misc (33x).

 

[Eugene]

Moses made a single mistake in the order God gave Him.

If Moses didn't "believe" in God, then he would have never have struck the Rock to begin with.

Why would you equate making a mistake in performing a task, is the same thing as unbelief toward Christ and the Gospel?

JLB, I cannot answer for God other than what He said in Num 20:12. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel. Moses was killed as the result according to Deut 32:50-51. . . . die in the mount whither thou goest up . .

 

[JLB]

JLB, I cannot answer for God other than what He said in Num 20:12. And the LORD spake unto Moses and Aaron, Because ye believed me not, to sanctify me in the eyes of the children of Israel. Moses was killed as the result according to Deut 32:50-51. . . . die in the mount whither thou goest up . .

Yes Moses died and was gathered to his people.

That's a reference to Abraham's Bosom.

That is not a reference to the pit, or Sheol or Hell.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

Let's examine the language from one of Paul's letter's.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21

Focus on this phrase -

...of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

JLB, would you include the following scripture as “Those who practice such things” :
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation (or judgment). Have you ever found you exceeding a speed limit set by the powers ordained of God, or did you exercise the benefits of 1 Jn 1:9 to not be sent to mount Nebo as Moses was (Deut 32:50)? If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath (Damnation?), but also for conscience sake.

May I ask what denomination of church you attend that teaches what you do?

 

[Eugene]

Yes Moses died and was gathered to his people.

That's a reference to Abraham's Bosom.

That is not a reference to the pit, or Sheol or Hell.

JLB

And you think being cut off, or other sins unto death are? Can you show me one that was sent to hell for not believing god after they were saved? What do you think of King Saul even to the point of God no longer answering him? Did he go to hell or Abraham's bosom?
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. (The witch of Endor)



Scripture please.

 

[ezra]

Maybe you didn't read these words...

The sin that isn't forgiven.

Maybe you did read these words, but did understand their meaning.

If you don't believe Jesus is the Christ who died for you that your sins would be forgiven then you are still in your sins.

That covers any and all sin.

If you believe Jesus died for you that your sins would be forgiven, but then later on hold unforgiveness toward a person then it's possible for God to re-instate the penalty for your sins.


JLB

 

[ezra]

Maybe you didn't read these words...

The sin that isn't forgiven.

Maybe you did read these words, but did understand their meaning.

If you don't believe Jesus is the Christ who died for you that your sins would be forgiven then you are still in your sins.

That covers any and all sin.

If you believe Jesus died for you that your sins would be forgiven, but then later on hold unforgiveness toward a person then it's possible for God to re-instate the penalty for your sins.


JLB

" If you don't believe Jesus is the Christ who died for you that your sins would be forgiven then you are still in your sins. " unbelief : that could be for atheist most lost do believe Jesus is the Christ who died for them. your still tiptoeing . i asked at what point and is there any certain sin that can cause a born again person to no longer be saved? your using speculation .. looking for specific

 

[ezra]

Not my words at all. Because of what Moses did, God said that Moses did not believe Him in Num 20:12, and also to die because Moses trespassed against God among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah-Kadesh. Not only did Moses not get to enter the promised land of Canaan, God put him to death. Sounds pretty serious to me; could we say a sin unto death?

Not believing Jesus is the only means of salvation is what the world is guilty of described in parts of Romans Chapters one, two, and three. The immoral man refuses to believe even though God made Him known to them, the moral man trusts in their natural good works toward others, and the religious man trusts in the law. All are condemned without Christ and the problem you're experiencing is attempting to mix apples and oranges as it were by trying to assign the judgment of the wicked to the righteousness we have in Christ if we we are born of God.

No, I do not believe Moses is in hell; he was seen with Elias (Elijah) talking to Jesus in Mat 17:3 on what has become as the mount of transfiguration.

amen

 

[JLB]

JLB, I do not see that the two words Believe & Obey are synonymous;

That would certainly explain your perspective.

Before I show you the scriptures, where believe is synonymous with obey, let me ask you a question.

What was it that the Lord asked Moses to do, and what was it Moses did, that caused the Lord to say these words to him.,.,

Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel...


JLB

 

[Eugene]

That would certainly explain your perspective.

Before I show you the scriptures, where believe is synonymous with obey, let me ask you a question.

What was it that the Lord asked Moses to do, and what was it Moses did, that caused the Lord to say these words to him.,.,

Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel...


JLB

Are you thinking of Num 20:8 where God said to Moses: "Speak ye unto the ROCK before their eyes; and it shall give forth HIS water."

 

[Jethro Bodine]

i asked at what point and is there any certain sin that can cause a born again person to no longer be saved? your using speculation .. looking for specific

In another thread, I point out that the Galatians show us that God is not legalistic about when he turns the ex-believer over to his sin of unbelief. How do we know that? Because the Galatians have turned to the law for justification (Galatians 5:4 NASB), yet Paul beckons to them to return to Christ. At what point does God say, "enough is enough", and turns the ex-believer who refuses God's correction over to his unbelief? I don't know. God knows how to judge a person in that regard. I sure don't.

As for Moses, even if he did, for argument's sake, turn back to Egypt in his heart, or his words and actions, the Galatians show us God's mercy in dealing with the ex-believer. But as JLB has pointed out in this or another thread, the author of Hebrew's testimony of Moses is this:

"the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant" (Hebrews 3:4 NASB)

That does not describe someone who rejected, or had contempt for, the promises made to Abraham.

 

[JLB]

JLB, would you include the following scripture as “Those who practice such things” :
Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation (or judgment). Have you ever found you exceeding a speed limit set by the powers ordained of God, or did you exercise the benefits of 1 Jn 1:9 to not be sent to mount Nebo as Moses was (Deut 32:50)? If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Rom 13:5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath (Damnation?), but also for conscience sake.

May I ask what denomination of church you attend that teaches what you do?

Those who practice such things in the context of the scripture I quoted.

19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

Paul list's them for you... and adds, and the like.

Those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Do you know what, will not inherit the kingdom of God means?

It means rejected from being are part of God's Kingdom, and sentenced to the everlasting fires of hell, along with the devil and his angels.




JLB

 

[JLB]

And you think being cut off, or other sins unto death are? Can you show me one that was sent to hell for not believing god after they were saved? What do you think of King Saul even to the point of God no longer answering him? Did he go to hell or Abraham's bosom?
1Sa 28:6 And when Saul enquired of the LORD, the LORD answered him not, neither by dreams, nor by Urim, nor by prophets.
1Sa 28:7 Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, there is a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. (The witch of Endor)



Scripture please.

What specifically do you want scripture for, as I don't understand the point you are trying to make.

I stated the phrase "gathered to your people" is a reference to [Where Abraham is; A place of blessing], indicating he went on to be with Abraham in paradise, not hell.

48 Then the Lord spoke to Moses that very same day, saying: 49 “Go up this mountain of the Abarim, Mount Nebo, which is in the land of Moab, across from Jericho; view the land of Canaan, which I give to the children of Israel as a possession; 50 and die on the mountain which you ascend, and be gathered to your people, just as Aaron your brother died on Mount Hor and was gathered to his people; 51 because you trespassed against Me among the children of Israel at the waters of Meribah Kadesh, in the Wilderness of Zin, because you did not hallow Me in the midst of the children of Israel. D


Then Abraham breathed his last and died in a good old age, an old man and full of years, and was gathered to his people.
Genesis 25:8

We know from the New Testament it came to be known as Abraham's Bosom.

What do you think of King Saul even to the point of God no longer answering him? Did he go to hell or Abraham's bosom?

Saul went to Abraham's Bosom.



JLB