What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

Are you thinking of Num 20:8 where God said to Moses: "Speak ye unto the ROCK before their eyes; and it shall give forth HIS water."

Yes.

Now please answer the question.

What was it that the Lord asked Moses to do, and what was it Moses did, that caused the Lord to say these words to him.,.,

Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel...


Here is the context -

7 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 8 “Take the rod; you and your brother Aaron gather the congregation together. Speak to the rock before their eyes, and it will yield its water; thus you shall bring water for them out of the rock, and give drink to the congregation and their animals.” 9 So Moses took the rod from before the Lord as He commanded him.

10 And Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock; and he said to them, “Hear now, you rebels! Must we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 Then Moses lifted his hand and struck the rock twice with his rod; and water came out abundantly, and the congregation and their animals drank.

12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”

13 This was the water of Meribah, because the children of Israel contended with the Lord, and He was hallowed among them.
Deuteronomy 20:7-13



JLB

 

[ezra]

I don't know. God knows how to judge a person in that regard. I sure don't.

and that is the exact answer i was looking for the pan of salvation is secure for those truly Born again... what happens if a person falls away returns back.. i dunno

 

[ezra]

In another thread, I point out that the Galatians show us that God is not legalistic about when he turns the ex-believer over to his sin of unbelief. How do we know that? Because the Galatians have turned to the law for justification (Galatians 5:4 NASB), yet Paul beckons to them to return to Christ. At what point does God say, "enough is enough", and turns the ex-believer who refuses God's correction over to his unbelief? I don't know. God knows how to judge a person in that regard. I sure don't.

As for Moses, even if he did, for argument's sake, turn back to Egypt in his heart, or his words and actions, the Galatians show us God's mercy in dealing with the ex-believer. But as JLB has pointed out in this or another thread, the author of Hebrew's testimony of Moses is this:

"the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant" (Hebrews 3:4 NASB)

That does not describe someone who rejected, or had contempt for, the promises made to Abraham.

appreciate your honesty i could not have asked for a better answer

 

[Jethro Bodine]

appreciate your honesty i could not have asked for a better answer

I think you misunderstand.
God knows WHEN to condemn the ex-believer. We don't.
The grace of God is not that he saves ex-believers despite their unbelief. His grace is that he gives them space to come back to Him. That is no guarantee that they will. See the difference?

Look at this:

"10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain." (Galatians 4:10-11 NASB)

Paul does not know when, let alone if, the Galatians will come back to Jesus. These words show us that Paul does not believe they are OSASed. He does not know if his labor among them has been in vain or not. He does not know if they'll come back to the grace of justification in Christ....and if they do, when that will happen. There is no knowing of OSAS in his words to the Galatians. None.

 

[ezra]

I think you misunderstand.

nope you said God did you didnt. i realize the security of our salvation leaves a bad taste in some folks.. but its there in scripture what you and others are thinking it allows us to live how we want...WRONG Romans 8:
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
31 What shall we then say to these things? If God be for us, who can be against us?
32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?
does it not say no man can pluck out of the fathers hand? this has nothing to do with osa it has more to do with pos those who are truly saved will be saved.. have you ever felt like at any time of your life since being saved. you lost your salvation. ? have you ever went to be saved and woke up lost? trust me its OK to say we are secure in Christ. it's not a license to sin. i have never preached you can or can not lose your salivation.

its a lot like marriage you get out of it what you put into it.. there a lot that got married but never put any thing into it.. . just like Christ we build a relationship by our faith he blesses by his grace.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

nope you said God did you didnt.

I'm telling you straight up. Go back and read my words.
I said God knows when to condemn the ex-believer, not us.
I in no way said, or was even suggesting that God knows when/if to save a person who has stopped believing in him and doesn't come back to him.

 

[ezra]

I'm telling you straight up. Go back and read my words.
I said God knows when to condemn the ex-believer, not us.
I in no way said, or was even suggesting that God knows when/if to save a person who has stopped believing in him and doesn't come back to him.

SO your ejecting the sovereignty of God all knowing i can see by reading you must live in fear of being lost again. when in reality its a matter of faith .thats all

 

[Jethro Bodine]

SO your ejecting the sovereignty of God

You destroy the entire gospel by saying there will be unbelievers in the coming kingdom. It denies everything Christ died for.

i can see by reading you must live in fear of being lost again.

I don't. Why? Because I have faith. Faith is what secures the grace of salvation--"grace...TRHOUGH faith" (Ephesians 2:8 NASB). It's when you DON'T have faith that you need to fear for your salvation.

when in reality its a matter of faith

That's what I've been saying! LOL!
That's what non-OSAS is ALL about--you are saved as long as you have faith!

But so many of you are saying it's NOT a matter of faith and that you are still saved without faith.

 

[ezra]

You destroy the entire gospel by saying there will be unbelievers in the coming kingdom. It denies everything Christ died for.

not sure where you got that... hers a clue i am neither non osas or osas i just know where my security is in scripture if i sin and i do i have to confess my sin and i also have to walk in the light as he is the Light { you are saved as long as you have faith!} lets hope you dont lose your faith because he has given every man the measure of faith. Romans 12;3 For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith. ya know we was having a adult post until this point..............>But so many of you are saying it's NOT a matter of faith and that you are still saved without faith. im going bed tired of showing you scripture that prove my point..its you who keeps bringing in osas not me..

 

[JLB]

" If you don't believe Jesus is the Christ who died for you that your sins would be forgiven then you are still in your sins. " unbelief :

Yes sir.

i asked at what point and is there any certain sin that can cause a born again person to no longer be saved? your using speculation .. looking for specific

Specifically: any sin that is not forgiven, due to the person has turned from Christ, and no longer believes in Jesus Christ and His work on the cross for the forgiveness of sins.

Any sin.

Here is one verse that speaks to this:

4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit,5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Hebrews 6:4-6

The context is of Jews who turn away from Christ under persecution, which the author establishes for us in Chapter 3.

12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14

This is the same word that Jesus used in the parable of the Sower.

But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:13

It is a turning away from Christ, while under persecution of tribulation.


Those who do this have no more sacrifice for sin, since the have abandoned their belief in Christ, and returned to unbelieving.


JLB

 

[Eugene]

As for Moses, even if he did, for argument's sake, turn back to Egypt in his heart, or his words and actions, the Galatians show us God's mercy in dealing with the ex-believer. But as JLB has pointed out in this or another thread, the author of Hebrew's testimony of Moses is this:

"the builder of all things is God. 5Now Moses was faithful in all His house as a servant" (Hebrews 3:4 NASB)

That does not describe someone who rejected, or had contempt for, the promises made to Abraham.

All grace and grace alone Jethro Bodine. Saved by grace, kept by grace, and eternally with God by grace.
I imagine we'd have to compare King David when God spoke of him in:
1 Ki 15:5 Because David did that which was right in the eyes of the LORD, and turned not aside from any thing that he commanded him all the days of his life, save only in the matter of Uriah the Hittite.

There was consequence.

Psa 51:12 Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation; and uphold me with thy free spirit.
And
1 Chr 28:3 But God said unto me, Thou shalt not build an house for my name, because thou hast been a man of war, and hast shed blood.

 

[Eugene]

12 Then the Lord spoke to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe Me, to hallow Me in the eyes of the children of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land which I have given them.”

Don't forget Moses was also killed by God for that also according to Deut 32:50-52. Could Moses after committing a sin unto death then inherit the kingdom of God? He was denied his reward of entering the promised land, and he was killed. If Moses had repented, and confessed his sin, was God showing grace unto him where He wouldn't for us? JLB, I'm through with this thread. Thanks.

 

[JLB]

If Moses had repented, and confessed his sin, was God showing grace unto him where He wouldn't for us?

I guess you have misunderstood my position in this thread.

I have always said God is gracious to forgive us, and cleanse us of our unrighteousness... if we confess out sin.

That is what we are supposed to do, repent and confess our sins.


What those other folks are teaching, is once you believe, the all your sins past present and future have been forgiven, their is no need to confess your sin, to be forgiven.

Furthermore they believe you can become a homosexual, blaspheme the Holy Spirit, or renounce Jesus Christ as Lord, and confess Allah as Lord, murder, rape and lie continually and never confess or repent of your sins for the rest of your life, and still be saved on the Day of Judgement... because once you are saved, you are always saved.

That is what these folks are teaching us.

Is that your position?



JLB

 

[GodsGrace]

Actually, it is you that is misunderstanding Jesus' use of the vinedresser metaphor. Have you ever cultivated grape vines? In order to maximize their fruit production you have to prune/cut and burn not just the branches that are not producing fruit but also the ones that are. That way they produce even more fruit next year.

Hi Chessman,
I hate to get in the middle of this grape discussion BUT
I HAVE grown grapes and Jethro Bodine is right.

You cut back a branch to give more strength to the entire plant starting from the root.
It makes the entire plant be more fruitful.
Jesus meant this in the sense that we are to be taught to be fruitful.
The branch is still LIVING, but needs pruning so it could become BETTER and
be more fruitful in the future.

When a branch is DEAD, you have to CUT IT OFF since it will NEVER produce fruit again.
Someone who is not producing fruit in the Kingdom of God is either not saved, or has backsliden or whatever you want to call it. They are no longer saved and PART OF THE PLANT. They are DEAD, just like a branch could be dead.

Wondering

 

[Eugene]

I have always said God is gracious to forgive us, and cleanse us of our unrighteousness... if we confess out sin.

If that was the case with Moses, do you think God would have gone ahead and killed him as He did in Deut 32:50-52? He must not have confessed huh?

What those other folks are teaching, is once you believe, the all your sins past present and future have been forgiven, their is no need to confess your sin, to be forgiven.

Furthermore they believe you can become a homosexual, blaspheme the Holy Spirit, or renounce Jesus Christ as Lord, and confess Allah as Lord, murder, rape and lie continually and never confess or repent of your sins for the rest of your life, and still be saved on the Day of Judgement... because once you are saved, you are always saved.

That is what these folks are teaching us.

Is that your position?

My position is this: please read it.
Salvation with Security – 1, 2, 3
http://www.christianforums.net/Fell...ds/salvation-with-security-parts-1-2-3.52236/

 

[chessman]

Look at this:

"10You observe days and months and seasons and years. 11I fear for you, that perhaps I have labored over you in vain." (Galatians 4:10-11 NASB)

Paul does not know when, let alone if, the Galatians will come back to Jesus

This Scripture doesn't say Paul feared God would condemn them to Hell. It simply says "I fear for you". Nor does Paul himself condemn them to Hell. It says perhaps I have labored over you in vain. Perhaps he did. Perhaps not.

Nor does Paul condemn Saint Peter or Barnabas to Hell for acting like a Jew (Gal 2:11-13) after becoming a Christian. But he does rebuked them for their actions. Nor does Paul condemn gentile Christians to Hell for acting like a Jew by getting circumcised (Gal 5:2-6) after they've already been set free from that yoke of slavary. But he does rebuke them for their actions.

In fact, Paul just got through telling them in the Scripture you left out:

Galatians 5:1 (LEB) For freedom Christ has set us free. Stand firm, therefore, and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. ​

Paul doesn't say 'perhaps Christ has set us free'. He says Christ HAS set us free. Yes, he tells them to stand firm in that freedom and DO NOT be subject again to a yoke of slavery (like circumcision).

Then Paul says Circumcision means nothing:

Galatians 5:6 (LEB). For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but faith working through love. ​

Paul doesn't say that for a Gentile Christian, getting circumcised (severing your foreskin) means you're going to Hell. But he does rebuke them using the strong language of "estranged fom Christ" in regard of there action of becoming circuncised after becoming a Christian. Just as he did with Peter.

 

[chessman]

Hi Chessman,
I hate to get in the middle of this grape discussion BUT
I HAVE grown grapes and Jethro Bodine is right.

Jethro is right about a lot of things but both you and he have missed my point.

You cut back a branch to give more strength to the entire plant starting from the root.
It makes the entire plant be more fruitful.

Yes and you throw what's cut back in a pile to burn.

When a branch is DEAD, you have to CUT IT OFF since it will NEVER produce fruit again.

The illustration Jesus used was cutting off a living branch that was fruitless (which happens sometimes too) not a dead branch. But eitherway (dead or fruitless) you throw it in a pile and burn it with the prunings. That's my point.

Jesus meant this in the sense that we are to be taught to be fruitful.

Yes, I agree. His point about burning them was NOT meant to teach de-salvation.

 

[GodsGrace]

Jethro is right about a lot of things but both you and he have missed my point.

Yes and you throw what's cut back in a pile to burn.

The illustration Jesus used was cutting off a living branch that was fruitless (which happens sometimes too) not a dead branch. But eitherway (dead or fruitless) you throw it in a pile and burn it with the prunings. That's my point.

Yes, I agree. His point about burning them was NOT meant to teach de-salvation.

Two points:

WHY would God cut off a living branch??
A living branch produces some fruit.

Here's what Jethro Bodine stated:
Jethro Bodine said: ↑
You misunderstand. If a branch or field has ANY fruit of the Spirit, it is not subject to the burning

If a branch has any fruit on it, it is CUT BACK so that it will become stronger and produce more fruit.
It is NOT burned.
John 15:2

Jesus is the vine and if we are part of the vine we will be able to produce good fruit.
John 15:5a

If anyone does NOT abide in Christ, he cannot bear fruit
John 15:5b
And the branch is cut down and burned
John 15:6

John's point is precisely to teach "de-salvation".
I'd say that if something is BURNED, it's condemned.
If a person is condemned, he is not saved.

We are to ABIDE in Christ
John 15:6 If one DOES NOT ABIDE (live with) with Jesus, he is gathered up, like a dead branch, and cast into the fire and burned.

Seems very clear to me.

Wondering

 

[JLB]

If that was the case with Moses, do you think God would have gone ahead and killed him as He did in Deut 32:50-52? He must not have confessed huh?

Yes, I do.

To whom much is given, much is expected.

Moses walked with God, and was given great authority and power to work miracles signs and wonders in the presence of the Pharoah and the children of Israel.

Moses met with the Lord, and heard His Voice.

Moses felt confident and bold enough in his relationship with the Lord, to tell Him to repent, when He wanted to wipe the children of Israel and start over with Moses.

This confidence comes from knowing the Lord intimately as a Friend and confidant.

Therefore much was expected from him.

JLB

 

[MarkT]

I've been posting it repeatedly. Here it is again:
"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19-20 NASB)

How do you interpret this to mean people are the reward? Paul is writing to the church of the Thessalonians, expressing his hope and joy in them and them being his crown of boasting. You can argue Paul is calling them his work. But then, in that sense, in 1 Cor.3: 10-15, Paul is telling his 'work' to take care.

The 'work', so to speak, is being admonished to build on the foundation of Jesus Christ with something, and I think he means spiritual truth. So he says, 'Let each man take care how he builds on it', it being the rock or foundation or truth that Jesus was the Christ, the Son of God.

Anyways, it doesn't say anything about people being the reward.