What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[Jethro Bodine]

You left out the part where Peter says just how powerful, permanent, valuable and genuine THIS faith is though:

1 Peter 1:7 (LEB) so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ,
​

I wonder why.

I'm not sure how the fact that faith is tested by trials shows us that it can never fail. I don't know how you're getting that out of the passage:
"7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:7 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

ok so all i have to do is say i am saved and then prove it by works?

Do you think the Bible does not exhort us to prove our faith by our works?
Biblical 'proving' of whether one has faith, or not, is in the context of two things: Knowing for yourself that you are saved (Philippians 2:14-15 NASB), and knowing if the person teaching you is saved and can, therefore, be trusted (1 John 2:29 NASB, Matthew 7:15-16 NASB).

 

[ezra]

Do you think the Bible does not exhort us to prove our faith by our works?
Biblical 'proving' of whether one has faith, or not, is in the context of two things: Knowing for yourself that you are saved (Philippians 2:14-15 NASB), and knowing if the person teaching you is saved and can, therefore, be trusted (1 John 2:29 NASB, Matthew 7:15-16 NASB).

what does these 3 scriptures have do with faith and works
??????? at no time have i discounted faith it has its place along with Grace your scriptures on false teachers one needs discernment unction .>>>> But ye have an UNCTION from the Holy One, and ye know all things. ( 1 John 1:1} a person can have false works and claim it to be by faith --example jim jones he was a assembly of GOD minister if i am not mistaken.

 

[JLB]

example jim jones he was a assembly of GOD minister if i am not mistaken.

Good example of becoming defiled.

The accounts vary, as to what happened, however we do know his association with "father devine" who claimed he was God the Father, was a key to his demise.

Here's one of many articles -

http://www.believermag.com/exclusives/?read=article_morris

 

[Jethro Bodine]

a person can have false works and claim it to be by faith --example jim jones he was a assembly of GOD minister if i am not mistaken.

That's my point, bro. In a church that is so dead set against 'works', as if that's the four letter word never to be uttered in the church, they wouldn't be victimized by hosers like Jim Jones if they would start heeding the Bible's teaching of how works validate the presence of faith and one's true relationship with God, the Father of righteousness.

what does these 3 scriptures have do with faith and works

The proof is in the pudding. That's what those three scriptures have to do with what you brought up about faith and works. The Bible does in fact exhort us to not only seek proof of our faith in our own lives (which you seemed to pooh-pooh?), but to also seek it in the lives of those who see fit to instruct us so we can discern if they are really speaking on behalf of righteousness and truth and should listen to them or not.

Just because the Jehovah's Witnesses that you brought up seem to be in a desperate vindication of their own personal faith, when perhaps they really don't have faith, they don't make it so proving by our works that we ourselves have saving faith is not what we are supposed to do. That's what my verses show. I have to have a scripture in my post so I'll post the references again:

Prove your own faith: Philippians 2:14-15 NASB

Prove the faith of others by what they do for the purpose of discernment: 1 John 2:29 NASB, Matthew 7:15-16 NASB

As you can easily see, it is most definately Biblical to prove your faith by what you do. The church has so distorted and misunderstood Paul's faith vs. works doctrine that any mention of 'works' immediately sets off a chorus of 'works salvation!, works salvation!'.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Let's bring this around to the OP...

If you share a gospel that is so completely faith oriented as to pooh-pooh the idea that works validate faith as being the faith that saves, and that we are to seek that validation, then you are sharing a gospel that has the potential to prepare people so as to make them as 'hay, wood, and stubble' at the coming Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NASB), meaning they will be burned up, not pass through the Judgment safely to be a crown of exultation for the servant and laborer of God who led them to the Lord.

 

[ezra]

Let's bring this around to the OP...

If you share a gospel that is so completely faith oriented as to pooh-pooh the idea that works validate faith as being the faith that saves, and that we are to seek that validation, then you are sharing a gospel that has the potential to prepare people so as to make them as 'hay, wood, and stubble' at the coming Judgment (1 Corinthians 3:12-15 NASB), meaning they will be burned up, not pass through the Judgment safely to be a crown of exultation for the servant and laborer of God who led them to the Lord.

hey there i got your pooh pooh actually the o.p was about what works would be burnt up this is the bema seat of Christ. where we are judged for our works not our salvation

 

[ezra]

That's my point, bro. In a church that is so dead set against 'works', as if that's the four letter word never to be uttered in the church, they wouldn't be victimized by hosers like Jim Jones if they would start heeding the Bible's teaching of how works validate the presence of faith and one's true relationship with God, the Father of righteousness.


The proof is in the pudding. That's what those three scriptures have to do with what you brought up about faith and works. The Bible does in fact exhort us to not only seek proof of our faith in our own lives (which you seemed to pooh-pooh?), but to also seek it in the lives of those who see fit to instruct us so we can discern if they are really speaking on behalf of righteousness and truth and should listen to them or not.

Just because the Jehovah's Witnesses that you brought up seem to be in a desperate vindication of their own personal faith, when perhaps they really don't have faith, they don't make it so proving by our works that we ourselves have saving faith is not what we are supposed to do. That's what my verses show. I have to have a scripture in my post so I'll post the references again:

Prove your own faith: Philippians 2:14-15 NASB

Prove the faith of others by what they do for the purpose of discernment: 1 John 2:29 NASB, Matthew 7:15-16 NASB

As you can easily see, it is most definately Biblical to prove your faith by what you do. The church has so distorted and misunderstood Paul's faith vs. works doctrine that any mention of 'works' immediately sets off a chorus of 'works salvation!, works salvation!'.

once again you missed it you put the cart before the horse. we are to examine our self if we are in the faith. works follow salvation the cart would represent us symbolically speaking.. the Horse is doing the work which could represent Christ- GRACE . so to sum it all up james says faith works . please do not take my words out on context .thank you

 

[chessman]

I'm not sure how the fact that faith is tested by trials shows us that it can never fail. I don't know how you're getting that out of the passage:
"7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:7 NASB)

Faith Tested? Yes!
Found to result in praise? Yes!
Found to result in glory? Yes!
Found to result in honor? Yes!

1 Peter 1:4 (LEB) into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you ​

Found to be imperishable? Yes!
Found to be undefiled? Yes!
Found to be unfading? Yes!
Reserved in Heaven for you/me? Yes!

 

[JLB]

Faith Tested? Yes!
Found to result in praise? Yes!
Found to result in glory? Yes!
Found to result in honor? Yes!

1 Peter 1:4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you

Found to be imperishable? Yes!
Found to be undefiled? Yes!
Found to be unfading? Yes!
Reserved in Heaven for you/me? Yes!

If that pertains to you, then amen!

It may not necessarily pertain to everyone. oh me!


JLB

 

[ezra]

If that pertains to you, then amen!

It may not necessarily pertain to everyone. oh me!


JLB

serious have you ever went to bed and woke up lost your salvation? if not 1 Peter 1:4 is for you.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

once again you missed it you put the cart before the horse. we are to examine our self if we are in the faith.

Nope, didn't miss it. That's exactly what I've been saying.

 

[chessman]

If that pertains to you, then amen!

Of course it pertains to me. Same God that saved them, saved me.

1 Peter 1:3 (LEB) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ​

 

[MarkT]

But I explained to you that you improperly and without context suddenly changed the context of 'each man' midstream in verse 10 to now mean the individual Corinthian laboring in himself.

"...like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another (Apollos--original context) is building on it. But each man (now suddenly you say this means the Corinthian believer himself) must be careful how he builds on it. " (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB)

You broke the context of the passage by improperly switching the laborer(s) in the passage to the individual believers themselves.

I disagree. There is no change in my view, because Paul's message is to the entire church. He wasn't writing to Apollos to tell him to take care. He was writing to the church and to each man to take care how he builds on the foundation.

Paul said Paul and Apollos are just workers in God's field (to resolve the conflict of who is greater). What then is Apollos? What is Paul? 1 Cor. 3:5 Neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God gives the growth. 1 Cor. 3:7 That's what Paul is talking about. Paul and Apollos are just fellow workers in God's field. But Paul puts the focus on God, saying neither the one who plants nor he who waters are anything, but only God gives the growth. God gives growth. This is about growing in the knowledge of God. The gospel isn't about men and who is greater. (so don't boast of men 1 Cor. 3:21) It's about hearing and understanding the word of God so that each man grows in the vine. The admonition is to each man to build with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding God assigns him. (See the parable of the talents Mt. 25:14-30) Gold, silver and precious stones represent wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

The second point is what is suggested by 'a foundation' and building on it. A foundation suggests a house, and I already said it is a spiritual house. The spiritual house is built by wisdom, and it is established by understanding. 'By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24:3-4

 

[ezra]

I disagree. There is no change in my view, because Paul's message is to the entire church. He wasn't writing to Apollos to tell him to take care. He was writing to the church and to each man to take care how he builds on the foundation.

Paul said Paul and Apollos are just workers in God's field (to resolve the conflict of who is greater). What then is Apollos? What is Paul? 1 Cor. 3:5 Neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God gives the growth. 1 Cor. 3:7 That's what Paul is talking about. Paul and Apollos are just fellow workers in God's field. But Paul puts the focus on God, saying neither the one who plants nor he who waters are anything, but only God gives the growth. God gives growth. This is about growing in the knowledge of God. The gospel isn't about men and who is greater. (so don't boast of men 1 Cor. 3:21) It's about hearing and understanding the word of God so that each man grows in the vine. The admonition is to each man to build with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding God assigns him. (See the parable of the talents Mt. 25:14-30) Gold, silver and precious stones represent wisdom, knowledge and understanding.

The second point is what is suggested by 'a foundation' and building on it. A foundation suggests a house, and I already said it is a spiritual house. The spiritual house is built by wisdom, and it is established by understanding. 'By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established' Proverbs 24:3

AMEN good point !:amen

 

[JLB]

Of course it pertains to me. Same God that saved them, saved me.

1 Peter 1:3 (LEB) Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, ​

If you will continue, to read just a few more verses, you will see the context.

Here, I will will post them here for you to see for yourself...

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, 6 in which you rejoice greatly, although now for a short time, if necessary, you are distressed by various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom, although you have not seen, you love; in whom now you believe, although you do not see him, and you rejoice greatly with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls. 1 Peter 1:3-9 LEB


The Goal, the end result of of our faith, is to obtain in reality, the salvation of our soul.

For now we have salvation by faith, which is the "hope" of salvation.

Faith is the unseen substance of what we are hoping for; the evidence of things not seen, ie; not yet obtained.

Paul said this way in his letter to the Romans:

For in hope we were saved, but hope that is seen is not hope, for who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we await it eagerly with patient endurance. Romans 8:24-25 LEB


So to ask, can a born again Spirit filled Christian can lose their salvation, is not an applicable question at all, since a born again Spirit filled Christian, hasn't yet obtained the reality of salvation, by salvation by faith, in which we have the hope of salvation.

The proper question is: Can a born again , Spirit filled Christian, lose their faith in Jesus Christ?

The answer is a resounding - YES!


JLB

 

[JLB]

serious have you ever went to bed and woke up lost your salvation? if not 1 Peter 1:4 is for you.

I never have, and never will.

Salvation comes at the end of our faith, as it is the goal, or end result of a life of faith.

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to his great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 4 into an inheritance imperishable and undefiled and unfading, reserved in heaven for you 5 who are being protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time, 6 in which you rejoice greatly, although now for a short time, if necessary, you are distressed by various trials, 7 so that the genuineness of your faith, more valuable than gold that is passing away, but is tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom, although you have not seen, you love; in whom now you believe, although you do not see him, and you rejoice greatly with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 obtaining the goal of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:3-9 LEB


and again

22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23


The end result of a life that bears fruit unto holiness is everlasting life.

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:16

You and I are the slave of the one we obey, whether sin which leads to death, or obedience that leads to righteousness.

Those who bear fruit unto holiness and become a slave to obedience, by choosing to put to death the deeds of the flesh, will live.

12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13

Obeying the Spirit of God within, and being led by the Spirit, we are to become a slave unto God, unto righteousness, rather than presenting our members as slaves to our sinful flesh, and the desires thereof, we must make the choice, to obey God, and His righteous life that flows from within, whereby we bear fruit unto holiness... and the end, everlasting life.



JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

There is no change in my view, because Paul's message is to the entire church. He wasn't writing to Apollos to tell him to take care.

I already pointed out that he wasn't writing to Apollos. We know that from this: "6Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively applied to myself and Apollos for your sakes" (1 Corinthians 4:6 NASB)

He was writing to the church and to each man to take care how he builds on the foundation.

It's interesting that you can't see that how you interpret the passage makes it so the reward in regard to Paul and Apollos is what they do for the Corinthians (not themselves) while the reward for the individual Corinthian is what they do for themselves. That's the disparity of context your interpretation creates that you're ignoring.

The second point is what is suggested by 'a foundation' and building on it. A foundation suggests a house, and I already said it is a spiritual house.

The scriptures are so crystal clear on the description of that spiritual house where Christ is the foundation:

"19 So then you are no longer strangers and aliens, but you are fellow citizens with the saints, and are of God’s household, 20 (you) having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Christ Jesus Himself being the corner stone" (Ephesians 2:19-20 NASB)

"5 you also, as living stones, are being built up as a spiritual house for a holy priesthood" (1 Peter 2:5 NASB)

These scriptures fit the context of 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB perfectly, while your's do not. Your interpretation has individual buildings being built on the foundation, while the scriptures that directly describe Christ as the foundation describe a single unified building of God being built on the foundation of Christ.

The 'you' in the passage is plural in that regard and is consistent with the rest of scripture about the description of the foundation of Christ. You making the 'you' to mean individual separate people working on themselves as if they are separate buildings on the foundation of Christ is inconsistent with the Bible's description of the foundation of Christ and what's built on it.

The spiritual house is built by wisdom, and it is established by understanding. 'By wisdom a house is built, and by understanding it is established; by knowledge the rooms are filled with all precious and pleasant riches. Proverbs 24:3-4

Wisdom and understanding are the tools with which the building of God (singular) is built. That's why Paul says each man should be careful how he builds (1 Corinthians 3:10 NASB), so that he builds in such a way that builds something that gets the reward for that labor. The false apostles among them were using false doctrine and the ways and wisdom of the world to build them up in the building of God into that which can not and will not withstand the coming Judgment of fire when the kingdom of God is purged of "all stumbling blocks, and those who commit lawlessness", and who will be thrown "into the furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:41-42 NASB).

By foolishly looking to men themselves for wisdom, instead of God himself, and dividing themselves up under those men, as the Corinthians were doing, they set themselves up to be victims of that false teaching and, as a result, be those who are purged out of the field and building of God at the final Judgment of fire. And those workers who build those kind of people not able to withstand fire into the one building of God whose foundation is Christ, because of weak doctrine or sloth, will have no reward for that labor in the building of God, and will have the added danger of being destroyed themselves for what they did.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Faith Tested? Yes!
Found to result in praise? Yes!
Found to result in glory? Yes!
Found to result in honor? Yes!

4to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, 5who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 6In this you greatly rejoice, even though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been distressed by various trials,7so that the proof of your faith, being more precious than gold which is perishable, even though tested by fire, may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:4-7 NASB)

According to the passage, how is faith tested?
What is the proof of the faith that secures the promise of salvation?

What's Peter's point if a person still has the promise of the coming salvation if he doesn't have faith anymore, and he doesn't pass the test to see if he has that faith?

 

[ezra]

I never have, and never will.

Salvation comes at the end of our faith, as it is the goal, or end result of a life of faith.

well i finally got your attention.. you just agreed with me our salvation is secure in Christ . how much faith does it take to keep our salvation ?