What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[Jethro Bodine]

Read the Proverbs. The spiritual language Paul uses in Cor. 3:10-15 is unmistakeable.

And Jesus said, “Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust consume and where thieves break in and steal, but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust consumes and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. Mt. 6:19-21

This is our work, to store up his word.

Our obedience to the moral commands of God are certainly works and has it's own reward, but that is not the work that Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB.

If you want to have the specific reward of people in the kingdom because of your ministry duties then be careful how you build!

 

[JLB]

Why yes, I think he did. Yet, I notice you left off "in the Lord" from the verse. Didn't you just get through claiming that was a ... what's the word I'm looking for??? Oh yea, misquote!

Not at all. Here is my quote from post # 53

Paul's reward is that his work, the people, stand the test of the fire, and are not burned up like hay or stubble, showing that he built with Christ.

It couldn't be any more plain.

They are His work.

...Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1


JLB

8 Now he who plants and he who waters are one, and each one will receive his own reward according to his own labor.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:8-17



Here is something very simple to read: If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.


If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.

God will destroy him.


JLB

 

[JLB]

That's not a quote. It's a reference. There's a difference.



[edited]

Pop quiz based on the study of this verse:

1. The wages of sin are death. True/False statement? T

2. The gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. True or False statement? T

3. Eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord is a gift of God's. True or False statement? T

4. Eternal Life is a gift of God's. True or False statement? T

How do you answer 4? F?

#4 False.

Eternal life is a gift of God in Christ Jesus.

You are placed in Christ as a gift from God, when you believe/obey the Gospel.

You are warned that you must remain in Christ, or be thrown into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


Eternal life is IN Christ Jesus our Lord.

Those who are "in" Christ, must also abide in Him.

Those who don't abide in Him are gathered up and thrown into the fire and burned.

Those who are burned in the fire, are certainly not saved.

Those who defile the Temple, God will destroy.


Pop Quiz: Will God destroy those who defile His Temple?


JLB

 

[MarkT]

Our obedience to the moral commands of God are certainly works and has it's own reward, but that is not the work that Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB).

If you want to have the specific reward of people in the kingdom because of your ministry duties then be careful how you build!

I disagree with your work.

The language of Proverbs 3:13-15 is unmistakeable in Paul's teaching "Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver and precious stones
Proverbs 3:13-15Revised Standard Version (RSV)
13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
and the man who gets understanding,
14 for the gain from it is better than gain from silver
and its profit better than gold.
15 She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

The gospel rests on the foundation of Jesus Christ and him crucified. To build on the foundation you have to know the gospel; you have to be attentive to the teachings of our Lord.

 

[JLB]

I disagree with your work.

The language of Proverbs 3:13-15 is unmistakeable in Paul's teaching "Now if any one builds on the foundation with gold, silver and precious stones
Proverbs 3:13-15Revised Standard Version (RSV)
13 Happy is the man who finds wisdom,
and the man who gets understanding,
14 for the gain from it is better than gain from silver
and its profit better than gold.
15 She is more precious than jewels,
and nothing you desire can compare with her.

The gospel rests on the foundation of Jesus Christ and him crucified. To build on the foundation you have to know the gospel; you have to be attentive to the teachings of our Lord.

I love Proverbs, and this one in particular concerning wisdom, and how it correlates to what Paul said about building in our topic scripture from 1 Corinthians, as well as the type, from the Old Testament about Bezalel, and the wisdom and understanding he was given to build the tabernacle, which is a type of Christ.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17

and again


Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. 3 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 to design artistic works, to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, 5 in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship.

6 “And I, indeed I, have appointed with him Aholiab the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan; and I have put wisdom in the hearts of all the gifted artisans, that they may make all that I have commanded you: 7 the tabernacle of meeting, the ark of the Testimony and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furniture of the tabernacle— 8 the table and its utensils, the pure gold lampstand with all its utensils, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the laver and its base— 10 the garments of ministry, the holy garments for Aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, to minister as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and sweet incense for the holy place. According to all that I have commanded you they shall do.” Exodus 31:1-11


The Spirit of wisdom, knowledge and understanding, which is the Spirit of Christ, is what the silver and gold and precious things refer to concerning building people up into the Temple of God.

The hay and stubble refer to the vain wisdom of this world, that is demonic, and not according to the pattern of Christ.


Example from the Old Testament concerning things that defile the building of God.

Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. 3 And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke, saying:

‘By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy;
And before all the people I must be glorified.’”
So Aaron held his peace.
Leviticus 10:1-3

Granted, this is not the fire that is referred to on the Day of Judgement but is a type.

Just as important it is good for us to consider this scripture, in light of the things we are discussing in this study.

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:28-31

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.



JLB

 

[MarkT]

I love Proverbs, and this one in particular concerning wisdom, and how it correlates to what Paul said about building in our topic scripture from 1 Corinthians, as well as the type, from the Old Testament about Bezalel, and the wisdom and understanding he was given to build the tabernacle, which is a type of Christ.

9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17

and again


Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 “See, I have called by name Bezalel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah. 3 And I have filled him with the Spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship, 4 to design artistic works, to work in gold, in silver, in bronze, 5 in cutting jewels for setting, in carving wood, and to work in all manner of workmanship.

6 “And I, indeed I, have appointed with him Aholiab the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan; and I have put wisdom in the hearts of all the gifted artisans, that they may make all that I have commanded you: 7 the tabernacle of meeting, the ark of the Testimony and the mercy seat that is on it, and all the furniture of the tabernacle— 8 the table and its utensils, the pure gold lampstand with all its utensils, the altar of incense, 9 the altar of burnt offering with all its utensils, and the laver and its base— 10 the garments of ministry, the holy garments for Aaron the priest and the garments of his sons, to minister as priests, 11 and the anointing oil and sweet incense for the holy place. According to all that I have commanded you they shall do.” Exodus 31:1-11


The Spirit of wisdom, knowledge and understanding, which is the Spirit of Christ, is what the silver and gold and precious things refer to concerning building people up into the Temple of God.

The hay and stubble refer to the vain wisdom of this world, that is demonic, and not according to the pattern of Christ.


Example from the Old Testament concerning things that defile the building of God.

Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them. 2 So fire went out from the Lord and devoured them, and they died before the Lord. 3 And Moses said to Aaron, “This is what the Lord spoke, saying:

‘By those who come near Me I must be regarded as holy;
And before all the people I must be glorified.’”
So Aaron held his peace.
Leviticus 10:1-3

Granted, this is not the fire that is referred to on the Day of Judgement but is a type.

Just as important it is good for us to consider this scripture, in light of the things we are discussing in this study.

28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,”says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. Hebrews 10:28-31

The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life, to one away from the snares of death. Proverbs 14:27

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.



JLB

The point is he is using spiritual language to impart spiritual wisdom to those who possess the Spirit.

Paul laid a foundation like a builder first lays a foundation before he begins to build on the foundation. The foundation he laid was Jesus Christ and him crucified. Paul and Apollos were fellow workers for God, and Paul said each worker shall receive his wages according to his labour. Each one had his job to do. Paul laid the foundation. Apollos watered the church.

Re. 1 Cor. 3:10-15 It's like building a house. If a man builds with wisdom, knowledge and understanding, his house will survive, and he will receive a reward. If he builds with wood, hay and stubble, his house will burn down, but only down to the foundation. The foundation is saved, and if the foundation is saved, the man will be saved, but only as through fire, which means the fire of judgment.

So the house is the work that is built on the foundation, and this work is work we do in spirit when we read the Bible. Today we have the Bible, so we are building on the foundation of Jesus Christ and him crucified all the time. Our understanding is always growing as we are being conformed to the image of his Son.
Romans 8:29
For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the first-born among many brethren.

 

[JLB]

The point is he is using spiritual language to impart spiritual wisdom to those who possess the Spirit.

The point is He is teaching from the Spirit, the message of Christ and His words, and not the defiling words of Heresy and false doctrine.

To the same Corinthians he wrote... since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.
1 Corinthians 13:3


It is the Spirit of Christ flowing from Paul and imparting His life to those who he is building.


Keep your heart with all diligence, For out of it spring the issues of life. Proverbs 4:23

Remember what Jesus taught about defilement flowing out from a persons heart and defiling someone.

20 And He said, “What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. 21 For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, 22 thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lewdness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. 23 All these evil things come from within and defile a man.” Mark 7:20-23

Christ must be formed within us, and have cleansed us from within, before we can minister Him to others.

It is who were are on the inside that flows from our hearts, and is imparted to others.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

#4 False.

Eternal life is a gift of God in Christ Jesus.

You are placed in Christ as a gift from God, when you believe/obey the Gospel.

You are warned that you must remain in Christ, or be thrown into the fire and burned.

Here is the hangup. No person has any ability to remove themselves from God's seal, which is the Holy Spirit. Nor does any believer haveany ability to break that seal. It is only assumption to come to that conclusion.

Those who are placed IN Christ cannot be "removed from Him". Period. There are no verses that teach such a thing. The verses that are routinely used by LOS doctrine for that idea are actually about being in or out of fellowship.

For some inexplicable reason, LOS doctrine seems to have no place for the concept of having fellowship with God or Christ by one's behavior, in spite of the numerous verses about fellowship.

I wish someone would explain to me how and where "fellowship" does fit into LOS doctrine, if indeed it does.

 

[MarkT]

The point is He is teaching from the Spirit, the message of Christ and His words, and not the defiling words of Heresy and false doctrine.

To the same Corinthians he wrote... since you seek a proof of Christ speaking in me, who is not weak toward you, but mighty in you.
1 Corinthians 13:3


It is the Spirit of Christ flowing from Paul and imparting His life to those who he is building.

The teaching Paul gives us 1 Cor. 3:10-15 is taught by the Spirit. The issue is what he is saying when he says he laid the foundation, and another man builds on it. Did he say the Spirit is building on the foundation, or did he say another man is building on the foundation? He said another man. Right? And then he said let each man take care how he builds on it. There's one foundation and we are building on it. So your understanding is different than mine, but we are both building on the same foundation. Like I said, we are all building on the foundation today with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding God gives us. Each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it (our house) will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If we have built our house with wood and hay and stubble, the Day will disclose it.

 

[JLB]

Here is the hangup. No person has any ability to remove themselves from God's seal, which is the Holy Spirit. Nor does any believer haveany ability to break that seal. It is only assumption to come to that conclusion.

Those who are placed IN Christ cannot be "removed from Him". Period. There are no verses that teach such a thing. The verses that are routinely used by LOS doctrine for that idea are actually about being in or out of fellowship.

For some inexplicable reason, LOS doctrine seems to have no place for the concept of having fellowship with God or Christ by one's behavior, in spite of the numerous verses about fellowship.

I wish someone would explain to me how and where "fellowship" does fit into LOS doctrine, if indeed it does.

Those who defile the Temple, God will destroy.

How does this fit into your doctrine?


JLB

 

[JLB]

The teaching Paul gives us 1 Cor. 3:10-15 is taught by the Spirit. The issue is what he is saying when he says he laid the foundation, and another man builds on it. Did he say the Spirit is building on the foundation, or did he say another man is building on the foundation? He said another man. Right? And then he said let each man take care how he builds on it. There's one foundation and we are building on it. So your understanding is different than mine, but we are both building on the same foundation. Like I said, we are all building on the foundation today with the wisdom, knowledge and understanding God gives us. Each man's work will become manifest; for the Day will disclose it, because it (our house) will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test what sort of work each one has done. If we have built our house with wood and hay and stubble, the Day will disclose it.

The work that Paul describes are people, in which if they defile the Temple, God will destroy.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building...
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:9,16-17

The scripture says plainly, God will destroy him... not God will destroy "it".


God bless you.


JLB

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I wish someone would explain to me how and where "fellowship" does fit into LOS doctrine, if indeed it does.

Start a thread about it.
Just because it not used in the non-OSAS argument to prove that argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the beliefs of one who is non-OSAS. It's another topic, that's all.

 

[MarkT]

Our obedience to the moral commands of God are certainly works and has it's own reward, but that is not the work that Paul is talking about in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB.

If you want to have the specific reward of people in the kingdom because of your ministry duties then be careful how you build!

We don't build people. We give them food and water, and God gives growth. Unless you mean build up, encourage, strengthen. Re. rewards, I would say eternal life is a reward, a better seat at the table is a reward.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who defile the Temple, God will destroy.

How does this fit into your doctrine?JLB

I always look to the Greek word to understand the meaning for any particular text.
phtheirō

1) to corrupt, to destroy
1a) in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or “destroyed” when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties
1b) to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide
1c) to be destroyed, to perish
1d) in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave

I reject #1, 1a, 1b, or 1d as coming from God. The only meaning that makes sense is 1c, which is a referral of physical death. So 1 Cor 3:17 refers to the "sin unto death" as noted in 1 Jn 5:16, and referred to in 1 Cor 11:30.

Does LOS doctrine have any room for God's discipline which includes physical death, or does God's discipline only involve sending His own children to the lake of fire?

I find it interesting that there was no discussion or evidence from your response about humans having any ability or power to take themselves out of being "in Christ".

So, why does LOS doctrine believe such a thing?

 

[FreeGrace]

Start a thread about it.
Just because it not used in the non-OSAS argument to prove that argument doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the beliefs of one who is non-OSAS. It's another topic, that's all.

Well, in another thread, currently closed, the issue came up repeatedly as an explanation of various LOS verses being about loss of fellowship rather than LOS, but none from the LOS side made any effort to explain how LOS doctrine views fellowship in any way. So it has been relevant already.

 

[FreeGrace]

We don't build people. We give them food and water, and God gives growth. Unless you mean build up, encourage, strengthen. Re. rewards, I would say eternal life is a reward, a better seat at the table is a reward.

If eternal life is a reward, then your view must be that it is earned. Is that correct?

 

[JLB]

I always look to the Greek word to understand the meaning for any particular text.
phtheirō

1) to corrupt, to destroy
1a) in the opinion of the Jews, the temple was corrupted or “destroyed” when anyone defiled or in the slightest degree damaged anything in it, or if its guardians neglected their duties
1b) to lead away a Christian church from that state of knowledge and holiness in which it ought to abide
1c) to be destroyed, to perish
1d) in an ethical sense, to corrupt, deprave

I reject #1, 1a, 1b, or 1d as coming from God. The only meaning that makes sense is 1c, which is a referral of physical death. So 1 Cor 3:17 refers to the "sin unto death" as noted in 1 Jn 5:16, and referred to in 1 Cor 11:30.

Does LOS doctrine have any room for God's discipline which includes physical death, or does God's discipline only involve sending His own children to the lake of fire?


So, why does LOS doctrine believe such a thing?

So you think Paul is using the word destroyed here, to mean physical death, which would mean that the fire also would be a physical fire that test's the work.


Please show use a scripture where people were thrown into a physical fire and burned to death, in the New Testament scriptures.

I find it interesting that there was no discussion or evidence from your response about humans having any ability or power to take themselves out of being "in Christ".

We are warned to remain [abide] in Christ, or be thrown into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15;6


Those who are unfruitful, God Himself takes away.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. John 15:1-4


JLB

 

[ezrider]

Isaiah 40:3-8
The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord,
make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
Every valley shall be exalted,
and every mountain and hill shall be made low:
and the crooked shall be made straight,
and the rough places plain:
And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed,
and all flesh shall see it together:
for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
The voice said, Cry.
And he said, What shall I cry?
All flesh is grass,
and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
because the spirit of the Lord bloweth upon it:
surely the people is grass.
The grass withereth, the flower fadeth:
but the word of our God shall stand for ever.

 

[MarkT]

The work that Paul describes are people, in which if they defile the Temple, God will destroy.


For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building...
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:9,16-17

The scripture says plainly, God will destroy him... not God will destroy "it".


God bless you.


JLB

But 1 Cor.3:10-15 is about the gospel and interpreting spiritual truths. That's the work that will become manifest; whether it is gold or silver or precious stone, or wood and hay and stubble. When Paul says the work will be destroyed, he is not saying the man will be destroyed, rather he says the man will be saved, but he will suffer loss.

 

[MarkT]

I think Paul is teaching more than one spiritual truth in this chapter. I can see at least three spiritual truths in this chapter, maybe four. When he says, 'you are God's building', 1 Cor. 3:9 RSV, he is speaking of the church. When he says, "If anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him." 1 Cor. 3:17 RSV, he is speaking of the destruction of the body. In 1 Cor. 6:19 RSV, he says, "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit" in the way Jesus taught - 'destroy this temple', when he was speaking of his body. John 2:19-21