What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

So it seems you're saying that we build people (the work) with silver, gold, precious things, or hay, wood and stubble then. That sure sounds like man made idols to me.

It doesn't surprise me at all, what may seem true or not to you.

Never the less, Paul plainly says -

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 1 Corinthians 3:9

Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1



JLB

 

[ezra]

The work itself is people. This is an undeniable fact of scripture.

What we build with is silver, gold and precious things, or hay, wood and stubble.

For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, you are God’s building. 10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it. 11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13 each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. 14 If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. 15 If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you? 17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are. 1 Corinthians 3:9-17


and again

Am I not an apostle? Am I not free? Have I not seen Jesus Christ our Lord? Are you not my work in the Lord? 1 Corinthians 9:1


Here is the plain words of scripture.

If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him.


JLB

you believe what you want and i will believe what i want .i was not writing to paper to be graded . it was about our works and works follow salvation. we can either do it his way or our way. our works will be tried by fire. good thing is i dont have to prove nothing to any one in here . i am not going to make humteen post on who is right and who is wrong

 

[JLB]

it was about our works and works follow salvation.

I guess you have missed the point of the OP.

What is the "work" that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians...

Answer the work is people.

Are you not my work, in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 9:1


JLB

 

[ezra]

I guess you have missed the point of the OP.

What is the "work" that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians...

Answer the work is people.

Are you not my work, in the Lord.
1 Corinthians 9:1


JLB

no its you that missed MY point.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So it seems you're saying that we build people (the work) with silver, gold, precious things, or hay, wood and stubble then. That sure sounds like man made idols to me.

If you think the "gold, silver, precious stones" built on the foundation of Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:12 NASB sounds like man made idols to you, then surely this sounds like man made idols to you also...
10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper." (21:10-11 Revelation NASB)

You see, the true church is made of precious materials, not hay, wood, and stubble. If ministers of the gospel do not teach, preach, and encourage, so as to build people on the foundation of the Building of God made of precious stones and metals then what they built will be purged away in the final cleansing of God's kingdom and they will have run their ministerial race in vain and will have nothing to exult over in the life to come:

"prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:15-16 NASB)

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

So if the minister of God's truth wants to have a reward in the kingdom of God his message needs to include an exhortation for his hearers to "prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God...holding fast the word of life" Philippians 2:16 NASB., not discarding it and as a result not being able to pass through the judgment with you (assuming you yourself held fast the word of life). For "each man must be careful how he builds on it (that is, on Christ, the foundation of the building of God). If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. " (1 Corinthians 3:10, 14 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

 

[FreeGrace]

Can a Christian who reverts to the law of Moses, after being saved by grace, through false teaching [hay, stubble, wood] cause a person to "turn away" from God to another Gospel.

Yes. But, so??

Absolutely yes, this is exactly what Paul battled against, and called it another Gospel.

Those same Christians who were saved by grace, then who were taught that they must also keep the law of Moses and become circumcised, are said to have fallen from grace, as Christ no longer profits you.

The profitting isn't about staying saved. It's about the blessings of fellowship.

When a believer is out of fellowship, the blessings cease.

Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing.3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. Galatians 5:2-4

Exactly.

Those who were saved by grace and turn to the law and become circumcised, then turn around and teach other Christians this wicked doctrine and now cursed, and are now obligated to keep all the law, having turned to another Gospel.

OK.

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed. Galatians 1:6-9

Here is how Jesus defined what it means to be cursed:
‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41
Cursed = cast into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels
JLB

Words have meaning within contexts, NOT across different contexts.

But, MORE importantly, this is the word that Paul used in Gal 1:9 - anathema. This is the word Jesus used in Matt 25:41 - kataraomai

So attempting to make two DIFFERENT words mean the SAME THING is false.

However, we know that Paul taught eternal security from Romans, in that he described eternal security as a gift of God and then wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable. Paul wouldn't contradict himself.

Furthermore, he wouldn't contradict the words of Jesus, where Jesus taught that when one believes, they HAVE eternal life, and that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Paul also wrote this: "set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come." 2 Cor 1:22

What does this verse teach? Please answer.

What does he mean by the seal of ownership, being His Holy Spirit, being a deposit, which guarantees what is to come?

What is "to come"?

What is a guarantee?

These are important questions. And the Bible says this about all verses:
"All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;" 2 Tim 3:16

So, if 2 Cor 1:22 isn't profitable for teaching, which category is it profitable for?

If it is profitable for teaching, what does it teach?

Paul told Timothy this about "approved workmen": Be diligent (by study) to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth. 2Tim 2:15

Those who present themselves approved to God do accurately handle to word of truth and can answer these questions.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this, in reference to the claim that the "work" of 1 Cor 3:14 is people:
"So it seems you're saying that we build people (the work) with silver, gold, precious things, or hay, wood and stubble then. That sure sounds like man made idols to me."

If you think the "gold, silver, precious stones" built on the foundation of Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:12 NASB sounds like man made idols to you, then surely this sounds like man made idols to you also...
10And he carried me away in the Spirit to a great and high mountain, and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, 11having the glory of God. Her brilliance was like a very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper." (21:10-11 Revelation NASB)

No, it doesn't. Not even close. Very unfortunately that anyone would think so.

You see, the true church is made of precious materials, not hay, wood, and stubble.

The 2 categories of "building materials" refers to work (effort) done by the power of the Holy Spirit or by one's own energy of the flesh. It's that simple. All works done in the flesh will be burned up, and not rewarded. Only works done in the power of the Holy Spirit will be rewarded.

If this is refutable, please proceed.

 

[FreeGrace]

So if the minister of God's truth wants to have a reward in the kingdom of God his message needs to include an exhortation for his hearers to "prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God...holding fast the word of life" Philippians 2:16 NASB., not discarding it and as a result not being able to pass through the judgment with you (assuming you yourself held fast the word of life).

No, the Word of God teaches that the believer is rewarded for what he himself does, not what others do. The claim that one will be rewarded on the basis of exhorting others to "prove themselves". 2 Cor 5:10 - For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

However, one will be either rewarded or lose reward based on WHAT they exhort or teach others. The Bible does not teach both ES and LOS. That is impossible. They are mutually exclusive. The clarity of Scripture shows that ES is biblical, not LOS, which is based on assumption, and a lot of it.

For "each man must be careful how he builds on it (that is, on Christ, the foundation of the building of God). If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. " (1 Corinthians 3:10, 14 NASB bold and parenthesis mine)

Exactly. And the next verse teaches us what happens to any work done in the flesh; it will be burned up. Yet, the believer will be saved.

1 Cor 3:15 directly refutes the LOS claim that believers who don't bear fruit will be cast into the lake of fire.

 

[iLOVE]

If the Believer is not under "The Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2)," all works are done in vain and will burn.

 

[JLB]

However, we know that Paul taught eternal security from Romans, in that he described eternal security as a gift of God and then wrote that God's gifts are irrevocable. Paul wouldn't contradict himself.

It's clear Paul never taught never taught eternal security, because there is no such phrase in the bible as "eternal security".

There is no such scripture as "eternal security is a gift from God', as this is a man made doctrine.


Paul didn't contradict himself because Paul never taught "eternal security", as the phrase doesn't appear in the bible.

Here is what Paul taught about eternal life:

2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:2-11

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

This is as plain as it gets, and is repeated throughout Paul's writings in Romans, as well as all his letters.

• For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Those who practice sin, will be recompensed with death.
Those who produce the fruit of holiness will in the end receive eternal life.


Context of Romans 6:23:

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?


It is those who become a slave of God, and have their fruit unto holiness, that will in the end receive everlasting life.
Those who practice a life of sin, will receive [eternal] death.

Key Phrase:

you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;



JLB

 

[JLB]

Words have meaning within contexts, NOT across different contexts.

But, MORE importantly, this is the word that Paul used in Gal 1:9 - anathema. This is the word Jesus used in Matt 25:41 - kataraomai

So attempting to make two DIFFERENT words mean the SAME THING is false.

Yes hell also has more than one Greek word to express it's meaning.

Which hell would you prefer?

Hell - Strong's G1067 - geenna -

But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.


Hell - Strong's G86 - hadēs -

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:22-24


Hell - Strong's G5020 - tartaroō

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4


Likewise, so does the word cursed.

Which one would you like? My guess would be none.

Strong's G1944 - epikataratos - accursed, execrable, exposed to divine vengeance, lying under God's curse

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Strong's G2672 - kataraomai - to curse, doom, imprecate evil upon

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41


Strong's G331 - anathema - a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, and if an animal, to be slain; therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction

1. a curse
2. a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes
   

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.


The accursed that Paul speaks of for preaching another Gospel, so that it leads people to turn away from Christ, is described as:
a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes, which being the direst of woes is: Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


So again, there are different expressions and meanings for hell, as well as cursed and accursed, none of which is good, and lead to the same result...

Worst of all woes = Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:


JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

It's clear Paul never taught never taught eternal security, because there is no such phrase in the bible as "eternal security".

Oh, come on. Let's be serious. OSAS is just another way of referring to eternal security. So, if one has believed in Christ for salvation, they are eternally secure.

I continue to be amazed at this tactic of claiming "no such phrase" or "Rom 11:29 doesn't mention the words eternal life". Esp when LOS doctrine can't cite any verses that out and out teach that one's salvation can be lost for any reason. Isn't that kind of hypocritical? Sure seems that way to me.

There is no such scripture as "eternal security is a gift from God', as this is a man made doctrine.

Well, let's review what the Bible does teach then.
1. Eternal life is a gift of God, per Rom 6:23.
2. When one believes, they HAVE eternal life, per Jn 5:24.
3. Jesus promised that those He gives eternal life to (believers) will never perish, per Jn 10:28.
4. God's gifts are irrevocable, per Rom 11:29.
5. Since #1 is true, then #4 means that eternal life is irrevocable.

So, there is nothing "man made" in eternal security, or OSAS.

What I believe to be totally made up by man is the idea that one's salvation can be revoked, removed, taken away, lost, or forfeited. I hope I didn't leave out any buzz words to describe becoming unsaved.

So far, there hasn't been any verses that teach plainly that salvation or eternal life can be lost for any reason.

Paul didn't contradict himself because Paul never taught "eternal security", as the phrase doesn't appear in the bible.

The concept is crystal clear. What is far less than crystal clear is the notion that salvation can be lost.

Here is what Paul taught about eternal life:

2 But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3 And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you despise the riches of His goodness, forbearance, and longsuffering, not knowing that the goodness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But in accordance with your hardness and your impenitent heart you are treasuring up for yourself wrath in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:7 eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality; 8 but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, 9 tribulation and anguish, on every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek; 10 but glory, honor, and peace to everyone who works what is good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
Romans 2:2-11

I'll take your lead here and respond by pointing out that there is nothing here about 'loss of eternal life'. If I missed something, please point out the words about eternal life being lost.

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,

This is as plain as it gets, and is repeated throughout Paul's writings in Romans, as well as all his letters.

Just as plain, but seems to be missed or avoided every time, is what else Paul wrote and taught:
"because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Rom 3:20

If "works of the Law" means something different than "by patient continuance in doing good", please clarify.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23
Those who practice sin, will be recompensed with death.
Those who produce the fruit of holiness will in the end receive eternal life.

This sounds very much like sinning leads to eternal death, while bearing fruit is rewarded with eternal life. Have I missed anything?

If sin is an issue that leads to eternal death, why did Christ die on the cross for sins? Whose sins? What sins?

Context of Romans 6:23:

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? 17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. 18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. 19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. 21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. 22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:15-23

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

It is those who become a slave of God, and have their fruit unto holiness, that will in the end receive everlasting life.
Those who practice a life of sin, will receive [eternal] death.

Key Phrase:

you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
JLB

Just please answer my questions. Your views are most confusing, and seem to contradict what Scriptures teach.

Here they are again:
This sounds very much like sinning leads to eternal death, while bearing fruit is rewarded with eternal life. Have I missed anything?

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes hell also has more than one Greek word to express it's meaning.

Which hell would you prefer?

Hell - Strong's G1067 - geenna -

But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.

Hell - Strong's G86 - hadēs -

22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23 and in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. Luke 16:22-24

Hell - Strong's G5020 - tartaroō

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; 2 Peter 2:4

Likewise, so does the word cursed.

Which one would you like? My guess would be none.

Strong's G1944 - epikataratos - accursed, execrable, exposed to divine vengeance, lying under God's curse

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”

Strong's G2672 - kataraomai - to curse, doom, imprecate evil upon

“Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: Matthew 25:41

Strong's G331 - anathema - a thing devoted to God without hope of being redeemed, and if an animal, to be slain; therefore a person or thing doomed to destruction

1. 
   
   
   • a curse
   • a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes

6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed.

The accursed that Paul speaks of for preaching another Gospel, so that it leads people to turn away from Christ, is described as:
a man accursed, devoted to the direst of woes, which being the direst of woes is: Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:

So again, there are different expressions and meanings for hell, as well as cursed and accursed, none of which is good, and lead to the same result...

Worst of all woes = Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:JLB

What is trying to be proved here?

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I said this, in reference to the claim that the "work" of 1 Cor 3:14 is people:
"So it seems you're saying that we build people (the work) with silver, gold, precious things, or hay, wood and stubble then. That sure sounds like man made idols to me."
No, it doesn't. Not even close. Very unfortunately that anyone would think so.

So how is it then that the suggestion that the people who are precious stones and metals built on the foundation of Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB is to you "like man made idols", but the same description of the glory of God's building being as "very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper" in Revelation 21:10-11 is "not even close" to be being like man made idols, even though it's the same description? Explain this duplicity.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

No, the Word of God teaches that the believer is rewarded for what he himself does, not what others do.

Then explain what reward Paul loses in the day of Christ if the saved Philippians do not prove themselves to be children of God holding fast the word of life:

"14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16 NASB)

However, one will be either rewarded or lose reward based on WHAT they exhort or teach others.

The above passage says Paul's reward is based on whether or not they hold fast the word of life, not based on what he exhorted or taught. So explain where you get this idea that it is WHAT he teaches and exhorts them that determines his reward. I see in plain words that it is whether or not they hold fast the word of life being that which determines his reward.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

LOS doctrine can't cite any verses that out and out teach that one's salvation can be lost for any reason.

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold mine)

"14Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16 NASB bold mine)

Not holding fast the word that is preached will cause presently saved people to not be saved, and rob the one who shared the word with them the reward of them holding fast that word. Why? Because they won't be there in the kingdom with the speaker for him/her to exult in:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB bold mine)

They themselves--the speaker--will be saved, of course. But if those he speaks to don't hold fast that which they heard and received and were saved by they will not also pass through the Judgment safely with the speaker and cannot, therefore, be a reward for the speaker on the other side.

Based on these plain passages, how is it that 'holding fast' can not be a requisite for being saved on the Day of Wrath, and that the minister of the gospel's reward is not based on if they hold fast that word? The above scriptures speak very plainly and clearly to the truth about this matter.

 

[FreeGrace]

So how is it then that the suggestion that the people who are precious stones and metals built on the foundation of Christ in 1 Corinthians 3:8-15 NASB is to you "like man made idols", but the same description of the glory of God's building being as "very costly stone, as a stone of crystal-clear jasper" in Revelation 21:10-11 is "not even close" to be being like man made idols, even though it's the same description? Explain this duplicity.

Well, I strongly disagree with the idea that the works in 1 Cor 3 are even about people. I don't believe the claim has been defended at all.

So, let's just take it at face value. If people are works, and what's being evaluated is "silver, gold, gems" and "wood, hay, stubble", it seems we have "valuable people" and worthless people".

I guess someone who thinks the works are people needs to explain what is meant by "silver gold, gems" and "wood, hay, stubble".

I believe Paul was making a distinction between energy of the flesh, which will be burned at the Judgment Seat, vs works done in the power of the Spirit, which will be rewarded.

How is my view unbiblical, or doesn't fit the passage?

 

[FreeGrace]

Then explain what reward Paul loses in the day of Christ if the saved Philippians do not prove themselves to be children of God holding fast the word of life:

"14 Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15 so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16 NASB)

I don't believe it will be Paul who loses any rewards for the failures of anyone in Philippi. They themselves will lose rewards based on their own failures.

So I can't answer your question.

The above passage says Paul's reward is based on whether or not they hold fast the word of life, not based on what he exhorted or taught. So explain where you get this idea that it is WHAT he teaches and exhorts them that determines his reward. I see in plain words that it is whether or not they hold fast the word of life being that which determines his reward.

Again, I strongly disagree with your interpretation of the passage.

Why would God hold any person accountable for the actions of others? How does that make any sense?

2 Cor 5:10 clearly teaches that we are responsible for our own actions, not the actions of others.
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may be recompensed for his deeds in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

I believe that is plenty clear enough.

Paul will be rewarded for his faithfulness in preaching truth. How others took his teaching is their own issue.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"LOS doctrine can't cite any verses that out and out teach that one's salvation can be lost for any reason."

"1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand, 2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain." (1 Corinthians 15:1-2 NASB bold mine)

Been over this many times. And it clearly does NOT say that one's salvation can be lost. The issue about "you are saved" isn't about "if you hold fast", but at the end of the verse, "unless you believed in vain", which in the original Greek meant "without reason".

iow, saving faith MUST include the purpose of believing in Christ. and it can't be for receiving life's "improvements", like a new car, better job, better wife, etc, etc, etc. You know, all the things that the "health and wealth preachers" preach on TV.

For faith to be saving, one MUST HAVE the correct object, which is Jesus Christ, the Son of God. And one MUST HAVE the correct purpose, which is salvation, or eternal life.

iow, when one believes in Christ FOR eternal life, that is saving faith.

"14Do all things without grumbling or disputing; 15so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, 16holding fast the word of life, so that in the day of Christ I will have reason to glory because I did not run in vain nor toil in vain." (Philippians 2:14-16 NASB bold mine)

Not holding fast the word that is preached will cause presently saved people to not be saved, and rob the one who shared the word with them the reward of them holding fast that word. Why? Because they won't be there in the kingdom with the speaker for him/her to exult in:

"19For who is our hope or joy or crown of exultation? Is it not even you, in the presence of our Lord Jesus at His coming? 20For you are our glory and joy." (1 Thessalonians 2:19 NASB bold mine)

They themselves--the speaker--will be saved, of course. But if those he speaks to don't hold fast that which they heard and received and were saved by they will not also pass through the Judgment safely with the speaker and cannot, therefore, be a reward for the speaker on the other side.

Based on these plain passages, how is it that 'holding fast' can not be a requisite for being saved on the Day of Wrath, and that the minister of the gospel's reward is not based on if they hold fast that word?

I love answering this question. The REASON it CANNOT be a requisite for being saved is because when one believes, they HAVE eternal life (Jn 5:24), and WILL NEVER PERISH (Jn 10:28). And eternal life is a gift of God (Rom 6:23) and God's gifts are irrevocable (Rom 11:29).

That's why it cannot be a requisite for being saved. The only requisite for being saved is to believe in Jesus Christ for salvation/eternal life. There is no other.

The above scriptures speak very plainly and clearly to the truth about this matter.

Phil 2:14-16 is about Paul being able to glory in the success of others who held fast. But that doesn't mean he will be rewarded for what others do. 2 Cor 5:10 refutes that idea totally.

And 1 Cor 15:2 is about being saved "unless you have believed without reason".

Those who succumb to those TV preachers about 'believe in Jesus and you'll have better health" have believed in Him "in vain" or without reason.

iow, there is NO REASON to believe in Jesus for better health. Why? Because the Bible never teaches such nonsense.

iow, it would be 'in vain' to believe in Jesus for better health. Or any other reason EXCEPT for eternal life.

That is the only reason to believe in Christ in order to be saved.