What is the 'work' that may or may not get burned up in 1 Corinthians 3:8-16?

[JLB]

It is a shame that believers read about the good tree producing good fruit and yet, for the most part, they utterly FAIL to assess the other side of the coin, personally, thinking they don't think, say or do evil. Yes, that is a shame. And a deception.

What the deception seems to be is claiming that a good tree produces bad fruit.

“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.

A person is either a good tree or a bad tree.

A person is either a vessel of dishonor or a vessel of honor.

Not both.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21


JLB

 

[smaller]

What the deception seems to be is claiming that a good tree produces bad fruit.

“Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit.

A person is either a good tree or a bad tree.

Sorry, there is no such individual that exists or has ever existed other than God Himself in the flesh, that doesn't have sin dwelling in their flesh and evil present with them, just as Paul lays on himself in Romans 7.

Sin is bad fruit. No one is sinless. Everyone has an evil conscience.

Though this may seem fairly clear and obvious to a handful of believers, for the most part believers just don't care to hear of the reality of evil present with us or our own sin.

So, the majority of believers will read of the good tree and the bad tree and they will never consider the bad applies to them, even though it quite obviously does.

Jesus said we will live by every Word of God, not just the Words we happen to like while we discard His Words that we don't care to hear of because we quite falsely think they don't apply when they ALL APPLY. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Paul essentially says the same thing, that ALL scripture applies to US. Not just the stuff we happen to like better.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

 

[JLB]

Sorry, there is no such individual that exists or has ever existed other than God Himself in the flesh, that doesn't have sin dwelling in their flesh and evil present with them, just as Paul lays on himself in Romans 7.

Sin is bad fruit. No one is sinless. Everyone has an evil conscience.

Though this may seem fairly clear and obvious to a handful of believers, for the most part believers just don't care to hear of the reality of evil present with us or our own sin.

So, the majority of believers will read of the good tree and the bad tree and they will never consider the bad applies to them, even though it quite obviously does.

Jesus said we will live by every Word of God, not just the Words we happen to like while we discard His Words that we don't care to hear of because we quite falsely think they don't apply when they ALL APPLY. Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4.

Who said sinless?

33 “Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else make the tree bad and its fruit bad; for a tree is known by its fruit. 34 Brood of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak good things? For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks. 35 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth good things, and an evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth evil things. 36 But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment. 37 For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12:33-37

Are you saying John the Baptist was evil, and he only brought forth evil things?

Likewise, we are either a vessel for honor, or a vessel for dishonor.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor. 21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter,he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work. 2 Timothy 2:20-21

What you teach is that we "have" both a vessel of dishonor and a vessel of honor within us.

That's not what Paul teaches.

...if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor



I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. Galatians 5:16


JLB

 

[MarkT]

I kind of have a hard time, generally speaking, with any believer who can not discern the situations we have been planted in here on earth. Believers are NOT only good. Never have been, and never will be, in the flesh.

Hebrews 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Believers hearts do have evil. Paul said evil was in fact present with him. Romans 7:21.

Paul gave us a "working" example of his own internal evil conscience in operations in Romans 7:7-13.

It will always be disingenuous to say that these things don't apply to us if they applied to Paul, or that Jesus will NOT judge these things.

That judgment will be had as Paul described in 1 Cor. 3. And there will be "loss" at that seat for all. I suspect we will be quite happy with that loss as well.

It is a shame that believers read about the good tree producing good fruit and yet, for the most part, they utterly FAIL to assess the other side of the coin, personally, thinking they don't think, say or do evil. Yes, that is a shame. And a deception.

We are not only not only good, we are not good at all. Even Jesus was prevented from saying he was good. Mark 10:18

If you're right smaller, then you will receive a reward, and I'll be the first to congratulate you.

 

[smaller]

Who said sinless?

JLB

Nobody will convince me that this is only "good fruit."

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

The good fruit that Paul DOES demonstrate in this is 'honesty.'

 

[smaller]

We are not only not only good, we are not good at all. Even Jesus was prevented from saying he was good. Mark 10:18

If you're right smaller, then you will receive a reward, and I'll be the first to congratulate you.

Well thanks man. Just so you know I don't condemn any believer for the present reality we ALL have, understanding that God has planted us ALL with evil present in order to come to know Gods Mercy in Christ Jesus. Romans 11:32. Or the conditions of fact that we are ALL likewise planted in found in 1 Cor. 15, which again no one will convince me are only good works or only good fruit:

42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.

We who believe will ALL be putting OFF dishonor, corruption, weakness and the natural body and along with it the evil present with us and the evil conscience. None of these are good fruit or good works. They are conditions of our planting here.

Looking forward to the swallowing up in HIS LIFE, of the "last enemy" which is death.

 

[FreeGrace]

So my question is whose angels?

Does the Bible answer that? No.

 

[FreeGrace]

Yes angels are sons of God, and are part of God's kingdom, with God as their Father, yet can indeed be cast down to hell.

Well, that's the ONLY point. Yes, Part of angelic creation rebelled against God and were judged by God to the lake of fire, which was created FOR them.

However, your attempt to equate angels who rebel with human believers, also called sons, or children of God, to being cast into the lake of fire, fails on a number of levels.

First, angels were never in a position of needing salvation, receiving it, and then losing it.
Second, no angel has been born again (Jn 3:3), given a new nature (2 Cor 5:17).
Third, Jesus very plainly taught that those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life, and WILL NOT come into judgment, and WILL NEVER PERISH.

Your theology claims the opposite; that those who have believed MAY come into judgment and WILL PERISH.

Just because God is our Father, doesn't mean were are somehow "immune" from coming under His judgement and being sentenced to hell, if we live in disobedience or unbelief, after having known the way of righteousness and been a partaker of the Holy Spirit.

I strongly disagree with your assessment because of what Jesus plainly taught:
John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

The issue couldn't be more clear than this: those to whom Jesus gives eternal life will never perish.

How long i

And nothing quoted from any other part of Scripture refuted or contradicts what Jesus taught. Nothing.

 

[JLB]

Well, that's the ONLY point. Yes, Part of angelic creation rebelled against God and were judged by God to the lake of fire, which was created FOR them.

That's not the sons of God that were disobedient during the days of Noah.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

These sons of God were cast down to hell and are there now, awaiting judgement.

JLB

 

[JLB]

I strongly disagree with your assessment because of what Jesus plainly taught:
John 5:24 - “Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
John 10:28 - and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand.

The issue couldn't be more clear than this: those to whom Jesus gives eternal life will never perish.

How long i

And nothing quoted from any other part of Scripture refuted or contradicts what Jesus taught. Nothing.

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

Those who are in Christ, for a while then are removed from Christ, no longer have the eternal life they once had when they were in Christ.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

Eternal life is in Christ Jesus.

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

Just as the branch is connected in the Vine, and must remain in the Vine in order to receive the sustaining life from the Vine, so also we must remain connected to Christ, in order to continually receive the eternal life that is in Him.

Those who are joined to the Lord are one Spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

A person must be one Spirit with the Lord, and continue to be one Spirit with Him, so as to be in Him, and receive the eternal life that is in Him.

That is the definition of eternal life; knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

This is Covenant Relationship.

Christ gives us Himself, as He is the gift we are given, that in Him we have eternal life.

Your belief is that it's impossible for a person to be in Christ, and never be "broken off", as a branch is broken off from the tree, or "removed" from Him, as a branch is removed from the Vine.

The scriptures teach us that some can indeed be broken off, through unbelief.

19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” 20 Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. 22 Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. Romans 11:19-22

and again

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away;
John 15:1-2



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

That's not the sons of God that were disobedient during the days of Noah.

For if God did not spare the angels who sinned, but cast them down to hell and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved for judgment; and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 2 Peter 2:4-5

These sons of God were cast down to hell and are there now, awaiting judgement.

JLB

Yep, the very same angels. The Greek word for "hell" is "sheol", where all human souls went after physical death before the resurrection of Jesus Christ. The believers went to "Abraham's bosom", also known as "Paradise" and unbelievers went to "torments", but both are located in Sheol. There is also a third compartment for the disobedient angels who sinned per Genesis 6 and are still there, awaiting the final judgment, the lake of fire, where they will spend eternity.

After Jesus rose from the dead, He brought all those residing in Paradise with Him to heaven, where they are awaiting the first resurrection.

So all that's left in Sheol (hell) are unbelievers in torments, and angels, in their own compartment.

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

That's NOT what I showed that Jesus said about eternal life. Those who believe in Him HAVE eternal life and will NOT come into judgment/condemnation. Jn 5:24. Then, in Jn 10:28 He said that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

Think about it for a minute: Jn 10:28 has no "conditions" on it at all. It therefore does NOT depend on what man does after getting eternal life for getting into heaven. Jesus Himself SAID that those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH.

That verse dashes the theology of loss of salvation.

Those who are in Christ, for a while then are removed from Christ, no longer have the eternal life they once had when they were in Christ.

Except your opinion is not even close to what Jesus Himself SAID about eternal life. And is in total disagreement with what Jesus promised in john 10:28.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6

There is nothing in this passage about eternal life, or hell, or the lake of fire, as much as you'd wished there was.

Instead, the passage is about FRUIT PRODUCTION, not salvation. These are not the same thing. There is no fruit production until one is saved. Only the saved CAN produce fruit.

Yet, whether one does produce fruit or not, Jesus said this: "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

I really don't know how this simple and direct promise by Jesus can be so misunderstood.

Eternal life is in Christ Jesus.

Yes, it is. And those He gives eternal life WILL NEVER PERISH. But your theology disagrees with this promise of Jesus. Why is that?

For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:23

For your theology to be legit, there must be at least 1 verse that teaches that eternal life can be removed, or that the believer's sealing with the Holy Spirit can be broken.

[edited]

Paul refuted any notion of eternal life being removed in Romans, where he taught that God's gifts are irrevocable, and that eternal life is a gift of God.

And Paul refuted any notion of the sealing with the Holy Spirit being broken BEFORE the day of redemption in Eph 1:13 and 14 and 4:30, which is re-emphasized in 2 Cor 1:22 and 5:5.

[edited]

Christ gives us Himself, as He is the gift we are given, that in Him we have eternal life.

Jesus said this: "and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Your belief is that it's impossible for a person to be in Christ, and never be "broken off", as a branch is broken off from the tree, or "removed" from Him, as a branch is removed from the Vine.

My belief is that the metaphor in John 15 and Romans 11 have been sorely misunderstood.

The scriptures teach us that some can indeed be broken off, through unbelief.

Yes, they certainly ARE broken off of being in service for God. That would be shocking for Jews to be told in that time period.

It seems you love quoting some of what Jesus said, but ignore other things He said. And nothing He said contradicts anything else He said.

John 10:28 refutes ALL notions of loss of salvation. Or Jesus was not telling the truth. A totally blasphemous idea. But that's where the theology of loss of salvation leads.

 

[Sinthesis]

Apparently Salvation is like Schrödinger's cat. You won't really know if you're alive until you know. So until then you have faith and believe. Yet some are deceived in their belief.

Mat 7:21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 - Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 - And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.​

 

[JLB]

That's NOT what I showed that Jesus said about eternal life.

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

• The definition the bible uses, for eternal life is knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

• This same John expounds on this principle in his other writings.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

• John also clarifies to those who claim otherwise.

He who says, “I know Him,”[I have eternal life] and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

• That's why Paul, makes it so easy to understand and know the truth about eternal life.

Paul defines the two types of Christian's that will be judged by the Lord, on the Day of Judgement.

...who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


JLB

 

[bcbsr]

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

• The definition the bible uses, for eternal life is knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

• This same John expounds on this principle in his other writings.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3

• John also clarifies to those who claim otherwise.

He who says, “I know Him,”[I have eternal life] and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4

• That's why Paul, makes it so easy to understand and know the truth about eternal life.

Paul defines the two types of Christian's that will be judged by the Lord, on the Day of Judgement.

...who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath,
Romans 2:6-8

eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;


JLB

Rom 2:7 is talking about the righteousness of the law. A principle that you salvation by works Neo-Circumcision types have put your faith in. Paul says, "there is no one who does good, not even one." Rom 3:12 So you don't qualify to obtain the righteousness spoken of in Rom 2:7

But Paul goes on to say, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24 That's the good news, but you Neo-Circumcision types reject the grace of God and opt for a performance based righteousness. The phrase "God "will give to each person according to what he has done." Rom 2:6 speaks nothing of forgivness of sins inherent in the New Covenant, but rather the curse of the Law. "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10 Such is the fate of the Neo-Circumcision apostates.

 

[OzSpen]

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

• The definition the bible uses, for eternal life is knowing Him.

And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

• This same John expounds on this principle in his other writings.

Now by this we know that we know Him, if we keep His commandments. 1 John 2:3
JLB

JLB,

I'll respond only to the first 2 verses. You seem to be missing an important element of the Greek language in understanding 'they may know' (John 17:3) and 'we may know Him' (1 John 2:3).

• 'they may know' (John 17:3) is the third person plural, Greek present subjunctive, ginwskwsin, which means 'they may continue to know' as it expresses continuous action.
• 'we may know' (1 John 2:3) is the first person plural, Greek present subjunctive, ginwskomen, meaning 'we many continue to know'.

Therefore, 'this is [present tense of verb to be] eternal life' (John 17:3) is only for those who continue to know Jesus. It is not for those who once believed and believe no longer.

Oz

 

[OzSpen]

Rom 2:7 is talking about the righteousness of the law. A principle that you salvation by works Neo-Circumcision types have put your faith in. Paul says, "there is no one who does good, not even one." Rom 3:12 So you don't qualify to obtain the righteousness spoken of in Rom 2:7

But Paul goes on to say, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24 That's the good news, but you Neo-Circumcision types reject the grace of God and opt for a performance based righteousness. The phrase "God "will give to each person according to what he has done." Rom 2:6 speaks nothing of forgivness of sins inherent in the New Covenant, but rather the curse of the Law. "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10 Such is the fate of the Neo-Circumcision apostates.

BCBSR,

On your website you provide this definition of neo-Circumcision: 'One could argue the majority of sects, denominations of Institutional Christianity, and indeed the majority of alleged "Christians" of these last two millenia have been of the Neo-Circumcision variety, varying between one another only by shades'.

So, are you saying that you are the only true Christians? This sounds awfully elitist and doctrinaire!

On your BCBSR website you have this statement against neo-Circumcision people:

To distinguish the gospel of the Neo-Circumcision, consider the scriptural Gospel of salvation.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24
The only condition mentioned here is to hear the word and believe it. And notice that upon doing so it is as if the judgement day has past for that individual. (Implying Eternal Security)​

There is no implication of eternal security in John 5:24. There is a statement of Perseverance of the Saints in John 5:24 because of the continuous action of the Greek verbs, 'hears', 'believes', and 'has'. Whoever 'hears ... and believes' uses the Greek akouwn kai pisteuwn. Both are present tense participles, so the meaning is to continue hearing and to continue believing. Christian believers are not those who once heard and once believed and thus are eternally secure. They are people who continue to believe; they persevere in their faith.

The person who continues to hear and continues to believe 'has eternal life'. 'Has' is the Greek, echei, i.e. present tense indicative mood from echw. This means 'continue to have' eternal life.

The present tense verbs of John 5:24 confirm the biblical teaching that those who continue to hear the Word and continue to believe in Jesus continue to have eternal life. That's the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, not eternal security.
Oz

 

[FreeGrace]

Those who abide in Christ have eternal life.

Those who are "in Christ", as in sealed with the Holy Spirit, per Eph 1:13 and 14, have eternal life. And the sealing is FOR the day of redemption. Therefore, eternal security.

Romans 2:6-8
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
JLB

So, one gets into heaven by "doing good"?

What ever happened to Christ's sacrifice to pay the sin penalty (1 Pet 2:24) and believing in him for eternal life (Jn 3:15,16,5:24,6:40,47)?

No one will ever get into heaven based on "doing good".

 

[FreeGrace]

Rom 2:7 is talking about the righteousness of the law. A principle that you salvation by works Neo-Circumcision types have put your faith in. Paul says, "there is no one who does good, not even one." Rom 3:12 So you don't qualify to obtain the righteousness spoken of in Rom 2:7

But Paul goes on to say, "Therefore no one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of sin. But now a righteousness from God, apart from law, has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify. This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus." Rom 3:20-24 That's the good news, but you Neo-Circumcision types reject the grace of God and opt for a performance based righteousness. The phrase "God "will give to each person according to what he has done." Rom 2:6 speaks nothing of forgivness of sins inherent in the New Covenant, but rather the curse of the Law. "All who rely on observing the law are under a curse, for it is written: "Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law."" Gal 3:10 Such is the fate of the Neo-Circumcision apostates.

 

[FreeGrace]

The present tense verbs of John 5:24 confirm the biblical teaching that those who continue to hear the Word and continue to believe in Jesus continue to have eternal life. That's the doctrine of the Perseverance of the Saints, not eternal security. Oz

Then why did Jesus use the aorist tense in Luke 8:12? And Paul in Acts 16:31 in his answer to the jailer?

And in Rom 10:10 regarding salvation?

What is also interesting is that Jesus used the present tense for 'believe' in Luke 8:13 and then added "for a while". So I don't think we can hang our hats on the present tense in the sense that you've explained.

Furthermore, we know from Eph 1:13 and 14 that those who believe have been sealed with the Holy Spirit, and we know for what purpose they are sealed. For the day of redemption. That is eternal security.

If those 2 verses don't teach eternal security, what do they teach?