Bible Study what is your angel theory ?

[Brother Mike]

I said I went to heaven because I thought it would get me attention. When I made the claims that I did, I had never read the Bible. People have profited from lies, and continue to. -Alex Malarkey

Colton Burpo Stands by his story. What does heaven look like through the revelation of a child? Certainly a kids perspective may not be as one of us describing Heaven and all the things we might see.

Paul talks about going.

I don't think it's that big a deal for someone to visit Heaven, certainly no big deal to God. We will all see it in a very short time anyway. Just a breath and we are out of here.

Jesse Duplantis went to heaven. The Lord took him and showed him around. No doubt in my mind.

Whatever the case we do have scriptures, and can compare.

 

[Sparkey]

In His preface to an endtime discussion, Jesus cautions us (Matthew 24:4) “Take heed that no man deceive you.”

2 Corinthians 11:14 “an angel of light.”
1 Timothy 4:1 “doctrines of devils.”
Genesis 3:4-5 The first doctrine the devil taught was that knowledge would make us like God.
Heb 8:1 "With regard to things that are sacrificed to idols:" Knowledge puffeth uppeth (makes one arrogant). Love builds up.
1 Pet 1:12 Angels have curiosity (don't know all things)
2 Corinthians 11:3 As “the serpent beguiled Eve,” so Satan continues to mislead even good people “through his subtlety.”
Matthew 24:24 All can be deceived by the “great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.”
Heb 2:9 Angels can't suffer death.
2 Pet 2:10 Angels are called "authorities" and "glorious ones" by Peter who says that false teachers blaspheme them due to ignorance.

This is a crucial understanding and as such we need to give it due attention: 2 Peter Chapter 2

Paul may have had the Tenth Chapter of Daniel in mind as he wrote Ephesians 6, especially the familiar Scripture: Eph 6:12

 

[Butch5]

It doesn't? Ok, then we are obviously coming to different presumptions and will not be able to agree on much about this. To me, it seems obvious that to be created in the image of God has a lot to do with being a spiritual being. One wouldn't say hey lets make a vehicle in the image of a Ford SuperDuty pickup truck...and then make a Ford Pinto and say hey this is it based on it moves as a vehicle or has the Ford logo on it.

If we was created in the image of God, then what's so hard to fathom in that, God is a spiritual being, so His creation (man) was also spiritual beings. As far as Jesus being fully man...That does not matter. He was still not of this world and neither are we.

John 18:36
36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence./

Actually I may be getting ahead of myself lol. In John 17 we get the meat of it and see that...well, a question first brother. Do you agree that God is a spiritual being? Presumably so. Just want to make sure that we're on the same page there.
Flesh beings (humankind) are of the world. Spiritual beings are of the spiritual realm (kingdom realm i.e. "Heaven") Once we willingly receive the Lord's wonderful gift to us, we are reborn, we are in Christ and Christ is in us, and we are not of the world. No one ever sees an outward appearance change when one becomes a Christian. That's because it all happens to our spirit man. We're not made into a spiritual being at that point, nor will it happen when Jesus returns. We always have been spiritual beings. We just don't know it and have been deceived. Live for the spirit! Learn to live as a spiritual being.

John 17: 14-21
14 I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

15 I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.

16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

17 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

18 As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world.

19 And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me./

This isn't something that happens after we die in the flesh. The Lord wants us to live in heaven on the earth. He said that the kingdom of heaven is at hand, meaning as close as the air you breath. He's torn down the veil. We have access to the spiritual realm. ...Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven... sound familiar?! As mature Christians, He wants and needs us to understand our identity and to receive it. Seek Him out and go to Him, in His spiritual realm

We've been waiting for God for thousands of years. Sometimes He does come and make an appearance. Well, guess what? God is waiting on us too! What's that scripture about boldly approaching the throne? What's that mean? Is that after all is said and done and we go to heaven that we do this? I don't think so brother. I think it's now. I believe that we are able to do this because we are spiritual beings. Faith enough to cross the barrier, approach the throne, and fall in a quivering heap and say, reporting for duty sir, what would you have me to do?

We are spiritual beings on a human mission. Not human beings on a spiritual mission.

Hi Edward,

Other than inference what leads you to the conclusion that being made in the image of God means being a spiritual being. There are a lot of qualities of God that He could be referring to. God is love, man could be made in that image. God has the ability to reason between right and wrong, made could be made in that image. There are a lot of qualities that man could be made after. What evidence is that the this statement refers to man being a spiritual being?

 

[williamt]

or do you believe that angels are special ? 2 wings 4 wings 6 wings .......... they are specially created? diffrent from other spiritual beings aka normal spirits ? i think the bible talks about them seraphim churbim ?

Curious as to whether you can provide Scripture stating that Cherubim or Seraphim are indeed angels?

God bless,
William

 

[Malachi]

="thesaintman, post: 1073558, member: 7652]
well i believe god created everyone equal in spirit realm ...maybe im wrong`?

Unfortunately, you are wrong.

God did NOT create everyone equal in the spirit realm. And we don't really need any "angel theories". There are a lot of people claiming to have gone to Heaven and returned, or claiming to have seen all kinds of visions and apparitions. We would be wise to generally ignore them. The only reliable source of information about the spirit world is the Holy Bible.

In the spirit realm, there are both angels and archangels (which are chief angels). And within the ranks of angels there are various levels of power and authority. Thus we read about thrones, dominions, principalities and powers (Col 1:16). This indicates that there are hierarchies within the hosts of angels (both on the good as well as on the evil side).

And human beings will always be distinct from angels, because while they were created "a little lower than the angels", they will also "judge angels". In Christ, the position of the saints is well above the angels, who are "ministering spirits" for the saints.

 

[williamt]

There are a lot of people claiming to have gone to Heaven and returned, or claiming to have seen all kinds of visions and apparitions. We would be wise to generally ignore them.

I agree, Hebrews 1:1; 9:27. I think keywords to emphasis regarding these "Near death Experiences" are to emphasize "Near". Regarding Hebrews 9:27 man is appointed to die once.

God bless,
William

 

[Edward]

Hi Edward,

Other than inference what leads you to the conclusion that being made in the image of God means being a spiritual being. There are a lot of qualities of God that He could be referring to. God is love, man could be made in that image. God has the ability to reason between right and wrong, made could be made in that image. There are a lot of qualities that man could be made after. What evidence is that the this statement refers to man being a spiritual being?

G'day to you Butch. Here you go...You Are a Spirit Being.
Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:26)/

God is a Spirit Being. Jesus even said so. He would know. After all, He spent all of Eternity Past with God. That makes Him an authority on what God is. Here is what Jesus said.

John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”/

God is a Spirit. Grab ahold of that. This means all human beings are first and foremost spirits, not bodies.On the inside of every living human body there is a human spirit.That is the real person, the one created in the image of God.
It is through the spirit of man that God communicates with us. God does not communicate with humans through their souls because He does not live in the soulical realm.God does not communicate with humans through their bodies because He does not live in the physical realm.God is a Spirit and He lives in the spirit realm.This is why He communicates with humans through their human spirits.

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,/

So, let’s get this right. God is a Spirit, therefore, man is a spirit. The spirit of man – the real person. That makes sense, doesn't it? It may not come right out and say "man is a spiritual being" but it does say everything except that. All of the scriptures all point the same direction and (to me at least) make it fairly obvious that we are spiritual beings. And then there's the other scriptures that say live for the spirit. That is significant brother. It doesn't say live for the body or live for the soul but live for the spirit. Why would it instruct us in that manner if we were not spiritual beings? Why is it, that they hide the knowledge of spirits and label any teachings about the spirit realm occult from us?
Because we're spiritual beings and if we learn how to live for the spirit and function as spiritual beings...that they would not be able to exert control over us. We wouldn't need them.

Clear as mud?

 

[Butch5]

G'day to you Butch. Here you go...You Are a Spirit Being.
Genesis 1:26
“And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” (Genesis 1:26)/

God is a Spirit Being. Jesus even said so. He would know. After all, He spent all of Eternity Past with God. That makes Him an authority on what God is. Here is what Jesus said.

John 4:24
“God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”/

God is a Spirit. Grab ahold of that. This means all human beings are first and foremost spirits, not bodies.On the inside of every living human body there is a human spirit.That is the real person, the one created in the image of God.
It is through the spirit of man that God communicates with us. God does not communicate with humans through their souls because He does not live in the soulical realm.God does not communicate with humans through their bodies because He does not live in the physical realm.God is a Spirit and He lives in the spirit realm.This is why He communicates with humans through their human spirits.

Romans 8:16
16 The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,/

So, let’s get this right. God is a Spirit, therefore, man is a spirit. The spirit of man – the real person. That makes sense, doesn't it? It may not come right out and say "man is a spiritual being" but it does say everything except that. All of the scriptures all point the same direction and (to me at least) make it fairly obvious that we are spiritual beings. And then there's the other scriptures that say live for the spirit. That is significant brother. It doesn't say live for the body or live for the soul but live for the spirit. Why would it instruct us in that manner if we were not spiritual beings? Why is it, that they hide the knowledge of spirits and label any teachings about the spirit realm occult from us?
Because we're spiritual beings and if we learn how to live for the spirit and function as spiritual beings...that they would not be able to exert control over us. We wouldn't need them.

Clear as mud?

Hi Edward,

You posted the same passage. When God said, "let us make man in our image" He could have been referring to any of the qualities that He possesses. I don't see anything that would indicate "spirit" as one of those qualities. You quoted Romans 8:16 which speaks of "our" spirit. The wording itself precludes man as the spirit that Paul is speaking of. Notice he says, "our." The word our indicates something we own or that is in our possession. For instance, when I say, "our house" I am not saying I am a house, or when I say, "our car" I am not saying I am a car . These are things that either I own or am in possession of. If man was truly a spirit then to properly address them Paul would have needed to say, "you". Let's look at another example,

18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. (Gal 6:18 KJV)

Here Paul speaks of "your" spirit. Notice that he uses the word "your" and not "you're". Here is a general definition of your.

1. belonging to or associated with the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
   "what is your name?"
2. belonging to or associated with any person in general.
   "the sight is enough to break your heart"

We also have examples from the Scriptures.

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: (Act 2:17 KJV)

We know that the Father and the Holy Spirit are different persons and we know that it was the Holy Spirit that was poured out on the day of pentacost, yet the Holy Spirit is called the "My Spirit" by the Father. The Holy Spirit belongs to the Father. By using the phrase "My Spirit" the Father is not saying that He is the Holy Spirit.

I agree that there is a spirit in man and that God communicates with that spirit, however, I submit that that spirit is not man. I don't belive you'll find anything in Scripture that speaks of a "human spirit".

 

[Edward]

Hi Edward,

You posted the same passage. When God said, "let us make man in our image" He could have been referring to any of the qualities that He possesses. I don't see anything that would indicate "spirit" as one of those qualities. You quoted Romans 8:16 which speaks of "our" spirit. The wording itself precludes man as the spirit that Paul is speaking of. Notice he says, "our." The word our indicates something we own or that is in our possession. For instance, when I say, "our house" I am not saying I am a house, or when I say, "our car" I am not saying I am a car . These are things that either I own or am in possession of. If man was truly a spirit then to properly address them Paul would have needed to say, "you". Let's look at another example,

18 Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen. (Gal 6:18 KJV)..

Hey thanks for the response brother. God is a spirit, right? (John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth./)

What are we talking about there? God's Primary quality. To want to make another being in your (God's) image the core constituents that make up God would have to be adhered to. That's a spirit being because He's a spirit.

"Our spirit" is correct wording because even if it does belong to God, we are in possession of it as one aspect of our "Triune" being (Body-soul-spirit). So to refer to our spirit as opposed to our soul or body...is correct and indicates a form of the possessive. Since we have three constituents, to refer to "our spirit" would be no different than saying our body.

...
I agree that there is a spirit in man and that God communicates with that spirit, however, I submit that that spirit is not man. I don't believe you'll find anything in Scripture that speaks of a "human spirit".

That's because there is no such thing as a "human spirit", unless you're talking about ardor or courage, etc..We're not even humans with a spirit & soul. We're spiritual beings with a soul that host a flesh body as a temporary dwelling.

If we have no spirit then what's meant by worship Him in spirit and in truth?

 

[Butch5]

Hey thanks for the response brother. God is a spirit, right? (John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth./)

What are we talking about there? God's Primary quality. To want to make another being in your (God's) image the core constituents that make up God would have to be adhered to. That's a spirit being because He's a spirit.

But you haven't supplied any evidence, that's my point. The Scriptures don't define the phrase for us. Any claims we make are speculation.

"Our spirit" is correct wording because even if it does belong to God, we are in possession of it as one aspect of our "Triune" being (Body-soul-spirit). So to refer to our spirit as opposed to our soul or body...is correct and indicates a form of the possessive. Since we have three constituents, to refer to "our spirit" would be no different than saying our body.

I disagree that we are a triune being as Gen 2 says that the body and the breath/spirit became something else, a soul. Your argument is that man is a spiritual being yet the Scriptures use possessives when speaking of the spirit. Someone has to possess the spirit.

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. (Job 32:8 KJV)
The word spirit is Ruach and the word inspiration is Neshamah. The passage says, But there is a breath in man: and the breath of the almighty gives him understanding. In Gen 2 it is the Neshamah of life that God breathed into the man. Notice in the passage the spirit and man are two different things.

That's because there is no such thing as a "human spirit", unless you're talking about ardor or courage, etc..We're not even humans with a spirit & soul. We're spiritual beings with a soul that host a flesh body as a temporary dwelling.

If we have no spirit then what's meant by worship Him in spirit and in truth?

If the body is a temporary dwelling what is the purpose of the resurrection and why is Christ now in the flesh rather than a spirit?

Worshiping in spirit doesn't require that one be a spirit. One worships in a church but that doesn't make them a church. The passage says they will worship Him in spirit and in truth. If that requires one to a spirit it would also require one to be truth. Are Christians truth? Jesus said that He was the truth. I would submit that worshiping in spirit simply means to worship according to the spirit, the way God intended to be worshiped without the man made rituals the Jews had imposed

 

[Edward]

But you haven't supplied any evidence, that's my point. The Scriptures don't define the phrase for us. Any claims we make are speculation.



I disagree that we are a triune being as Gen 2 says that the body and the breath/spirit became something else, a soul. Your argument is that man is a spiritual being yet the Scriptures use possessives when speaking of the spirit. Someone has to possess the spirit.

8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding. (Job 32:8 KJV)
The word spirit is Ruach and the word inspiration is Neshamah. The passage says, But there is a breath in man: and the breath of the almighty gives him understanding. In Gen 2 it is the Neshamah of life that God breathed into the man. Notice in the passage the spirit and man are two different things.



If the body is a temporary dwelling what is the purpose of the resurrection and why is Christ now in the flesh rather than a spirit?

Worshiping in spirit doesn't require that one be a spirit. One worships in a church but that doesn't make them a church. The passage says they will worship Him in spirit and in truth. If that requires one to a spirit it would also require one to be truth. Are Christians truth? Jesus said that He was the truth. I would submit that worshiping in spirit simply means to worship according to the spirit, the way God intended to be worshiped without the man made rituals the Jews had imposed

I'm guessing that we just disagree on interpretation then brother. It seems like a given to me. God is a trinity, or triune being and so are we. Created in His image as a triune being.

 

[eddif]

Hey thanks for the response brother. God is a spirit, right? (John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth./)

What are we talking about there? God's Primary quality. To want to make another being in your (God's) image the core constituents that make up God would have to be adhered to. That's a spirit being because He's a spirit.

"Our spirit" is correct wording because even if it does belong to God, we are in possession of it as one aspect of our "Triune" being (Body-soul-spirit). So to refer to our spirit as opposed to our soul or body...is correct and indicates a form of the possessive. Since we have three constituents, to refer to "our spirit" would be no different than saying our body.



That's because there is no such thing as a "human spirit", unless you're talking about ardor or courage, etc..We're not even humans with a spirit & soul. We're spiritual beings with a soul that host a flesh body as a temporary dwelling.

If we have no spirit then what's meant by worship Him in spirit and in truth?

Edward
God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit
Jesus was the fullness of the godhead bodily.
To make God totally spirit pushes things.

Romans 7:25
I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Your statement "Since we have three constituents, to refer to "our spirit" would be no different than saying our body."

Man was made in the I mage of God and not like God fully. Man was a living soul till Pentecost. At Pentecost the new birth became a reality."

Now back go angels
Ezekiel 28:13
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Satan ,IMHO, used the serpent to tempt Eve. What is the angel like? Lucifer was behind the scene tempting Eve to become like God.

Adam was a living soul lower than the angels. Adam's imagery was physical, IMHO. You know the body structure (natural pacemaker etc.).

The spirit of the mind .
Ephesians 4:23
And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
Jude 1:20
But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,

IMHO, the Holy Spirit entered man at Pentecost. Man became a living soul at creation, and filled with the spirit later.

Angels had the glorious appearance at their creation. IMHO, man did not .

Maybe I gave some reference to scripture .

eddif

 

[Butch5]

I'm guessing that we just disagree on interpretation then brother. It seems like a given to me. God is a trinity, or triune being and so are we. Created in His image as a triune being.

OK!

 

[eddif]

Butch5
IMHO, Elihu is not a good person to quote. Elihu condemns Job as self righteous when God has declared Job righteous. God is working with Job (although you have to look at the big picture). Elihu sounds so good at times, but notice that he is not even referred to by God or man. When we get to Job 32:8 we can discuss Elihu statements (in the Job study). Complex statements made by Elihu.

Honestly I thought of Elihu as wonderful for years. The accuser of the brothern was what finally showed me part of his nature.

eddif

 

[Butch5]

Butch5
IMHO, Elihu is not a good person to quote. Elihu condemns Job as self righteous when God has declared Job righteous. God is working with Job (although you have to look at the big picture). Elihu sounds so good at times, but notice that he is not even referred to by God or man. When we get to Job 32:8 we can discuss Elihu statements (in the Job study). Complex statements made by Elihu.

Honestly I thought of Elihu as wonderful for years. The accuser of the brothern was what finally showed me part of his nature.

eddif

Hi eddif,

I just posted it because it is consistent with the rest of Scripture. There were others that I could have chosen from. I was just trying to make the point that the spirit and the man were not the same.

 

[eddif]

Hi eddif,

I just posted it because it is consistent with the rest of Scripture. There were others that I could have chosen from. I was just trying to make the point that the spirit and the man were not the same.

But there is a breath in man: and the breath of the almighty gives him understanding.

At the time Elihu spoke there was no Holy Spirit in man to understand. Daniel had to ask God for the answer to dreams and visions. I realize some thought man could do spiritual things. Prophets at times could manifest spirituals, but sons and daughters (man) had to wait till Pentecost.

What are the other scriptures?

There are scriptures that prophesied of the coming day. After Pentecost yes.

eddif

 

[Butch5]

At the time Elihu spoke there was no Holy Spirit in man to understand. Daniel had to ask God for the answer to dreams and visions. I realize some thought man could do spiritual things. Prophets at times could manifest spirituals, but sons and daughters (man) had to wait till Pentecost.

What are the other scriptures?

There are scriptures that prophesied of the coming day. After Pentecost yes.

eddif

I'm not sure how the Holy Spirit bears on the issue.

2 Blessed is the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit there is no guile. (Psa 32:2 KJV)

8 There is no man that hath power over the spirit to retain the spirit; neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war; neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it. (Ecc 8:8 KJV)