What is your definition of a true Christian

[Free]

God is not real hung up on our description of his ontological nature anymore than my wife would be hung up on my description of her respiratory system. He was us to know him - entirely different idea.

Hmm...either God is or isn't a trinity; either we worship him as such or we don't; either we know him or we don't. And your history is off. The idea of the Trinity was around by at least mid second century (with roots earlier than that) but was accepted by Constantine at the Council of Nicaea in 325ish AD.

 

[thehayesman]

Yeah, my professor of christian doctrines stressed that only in understanding God as the Trinity could our doctrine be right. I still don't understand the concept, and I don't think it's changed my view of God much. However, on a corporate level, I could see how a small change might make a big difference for many people.

 

[TruthMiner]

God is not real hung up on our description of his ontological nature anymore than my wife would be hung up on my description of her respiratory system. He was us to know him - entirely different idea.

Hmm...either God is or isn't a trinity; either we worship him as such or we don't; either we know him or we don't. And your history is off. The idea of the Trinity was around by at least mid second century (with roots earlier than that) but was accepted by Constantine at the Council of Nicaea in 325ish AD.

You don't know your history very well. Firstly, Nicea wasn't even about "the Trinity." It was a Christological issue, not a Trinitarian issue.

Secondly, if the Trinity was a second century development, it would be rather odd to claim this idea is a necessity of salvation.

Thirdly, the mid second century provides no evidence of a Triune God.... although I expect you read some quotes that you thought conveyed such a thing.

Fourthly, your first point begs the question.

Fifthly, anyone who knows anything about the history of this issue also knows that Arianism almost won the day by 360 A.D. This could not occur if your notions had any merit. However, Theodosius was an Athanasian, he banished every bishop that was not Athanasian, and then called a council the next year. If you can't imagine then how that council was a forgone conclusion and charade then there is not much one can do to convince you of anything. I guess we can always pretend Theodosius was guided by God can't we?

 

[Heidi]

So without the trinity, then worshiping Christ is then putting other gods before the one true God, is it not? :o That's what the Muslims accuse us of.

Jesus himself said "For the Father is greater than I." Do you believe him? If so, then how can you worship Christ if the trinity isn't present without putting him before God? :o

Jesus tells us in John 14:20, "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me and I am in you." We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the trinity because we have no access to the Father without knowing Christ through the Holy Spirit. Yes indeed, understanding the trinity is necessary for salvation!

 

[thessalonian]

True Christians hold to the Trinity and that Christ was divine. You cannot be a true Christian with a false view of God.

I'm looking in scripture to see if I can find it . . . wait . . . here it is.

In the gospel according to Thessalonian. "Unless you believe in the Trinity and that Jesus is God, you cannot enter the kingdom of God."

Thess, I know God and he knows me. I am in Christ and He is in me. The same Spirit that raised Christ from the dead dwells in me. And I will let Jesus be the judge of whether or not that is so. Because that is the authority the Father has given the Son.

I knew I would stir up a hornets nest with that one. Either I am worshipping a false God or you are. You cannot make up whatever nature of God you want and say you are worshipping the true God. The Trinitarian God is not the gospel according to thessalonian. It is 2000 years of Christian exegesis and the authority of Christ's Church which must count for something, since he does say "The Church is the pillar and support of the truth". Everyone wants to make up their own God these days. Some on this board even have Jesus not being God. It's sad. Nope, I don't need to please you. If you are not trinitarian you are not Christian. I will leave God as your judge but facts are facts. If someone asks you if you know Jack and you say, ya, he's 3 feet tall, hairy, and climbs trees you know a Jack but you don't know Jack. You don't know the one true Jack who is a bricklayer from Boston. Sorry.

God will be your judge as to whether your incorrect knowledge of him is out of pride, willful ignorance, or you simply do not know. But you can't say you know Christ if you do not know who he is in relation to the trinity.

 

[Georges]

So without the trinity, then worshiping Christ is then putting other gods before the one true God, is it not?

Yup....

:o That's what the Muslims accuse us of.

Jesus himself said "For the Father is greater than I." Do you believe him?

Yup...

If so, then how can you worship Christ if the trinity isn't present without putting him before God? :o

Good question.....things that make you go hmmmmm.

Jesus tells us in John 14:20, "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me and I am in you." We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the trinity because we have no access to the Father without knowing Christ through the Holy Spirit.

Huh? If I'm a trinitarian.....and I read the verse you quoted, "I am in my Father" as being the same as the father. Then you have to take the same line of thought and quote the rest of the verse "you are in me, and I am in you" as meaning we too are God.....

That would make Trinitarians.....Polytarians...cause "we are all God"....

If A = B and B = C, then A must equal C.......If God = Christ, and Christ = Us....then God must equal Us.

Yes indeed, understanding the trinity is necessary for salvation!

If you are a trinitarian.....If not. then you don't have to believe (or understand) the trinity to be saved.....and besides...nobody can explain a co equa trinity enough for anyone to understand it...

 

[TruthMiner]

So without the trinity, then worshiping Christ is then putting other gods before the one true God, is it not? :o That's what the Muslims accuse us of.

Jesus himself said "For the Father is greater than I." Do you believe him? If so, then how can you worship Christ if the trinity isn't present without putting him before God? :o

That doesn't make any sense.

Jesus tells us in John 14:20, "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me and I am in you." We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the trinity because we have no access to the Father without knowing Christ through the Holy Spirit. Yes indeed, understanding the trinity is necessary for salvation!

Neither does that.

How about I say something like this: We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the Father alone is the only true God. Yes, understanding the trinity is false is necessary for salvation. If you were born again Heidi, you would know this.

See, I can make up things out of the blue too.

 

[Klee shay]

How about I say something like this: We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the Father alone is the only true God.

Sorry if I've read between the lines incorrectly TruthMiner, but are you saying that the Father alone isn't the only true God?

 

[TruthMiner]

How about I say something like this: We cannot be born again of the Holy Spirit without understanding the Father alone is the only true God.

Sorry if I've read between the lines incorrectly TruthMiner, but are you saying that the Father alone isn't the only true God?

NO.

 

[Klee shay]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. :D

 

[Klee shay]

Okay. Thanks for clarifying. :D

 

[Ryan Collins]

A person that did according to Romans 10:9-13 and lives like Romans 1:16

 

[mutzrein]

Heidi: Yes indeed, understanding the trinity is necessary for salvation!

Free: Hmm...either God is or isn't a trinity; either we worship him as such or we don't; either we know him or we don't.

Thessalonian: True Christians hold to the Trinity and that Christ was divine. You cannot be a true Christian with a false view of God.

Heidi, Free, Thessalonian and anyone else who believes I need to ‘accept’ the doctrine of the trinity in order to be a Christian. You have a problem. You claim to be Christians because you believe this doctrine. And therefore you are saying that I am not a Christian because I don’t believe it.

Now scripture speaks of two kinds of righteousness.
The righteousness that comes by faith in Christ.
The other is a righteousness that man believes he can attain by what he does and by what he believes is right, according to his own definition of right and wrong.

Now immediately I hear someone saying to others that they cannot inherit the kingdom of God or cannot be saved unless they believe this or that doctrine, I reflect on what scripture says about the righteousness that comes by faith.

And it is found in Romans 10:6-7 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.)

Do you know what this says? It says that when you say in your heart that someone is going to heaven or someone is going to hell, you are standing in the place of judgement which is reserved for Christ alone.

So you see, this is your problem. By judging another – by saying that a man or woman cannot be a Christian (and therefore is going to hell) you are putting yourself in Christ’s judgement seat. And you are also demonstrating the righteousness that is not of faith.

 

[AVBunyan]

Amazing - started out trying to find out what a true Christian is (which in my opinion most missed by a mile) and now there is a discussion over the trinity! :o :-?

My opinioni??? Most of you better find out what a true Christian is before you start discussing other doctrines.

 

[ChristineES]

So many varied responses. This is funny. We are all Christians on this board (except for the agnostics and athiests who visit), and people cannot even agree on what a True Christian is.
:o

 

[Novum]

So many varied responses. This is funny. We are all Christians on this board (except for the agnostics and athiests who visit), and people cannot even agree on what a True Christian is.
:o

There is no shortage of debate over this topic, that's for sure. Before we take a stab at defining "true christian", perhaps we could begin with defining "christian".

There are over a billion christians in this world and they represent a wide cross-section of beliefs. Some don't believe in heaven, hell, or the divinity of Jesus. Some do. Some go to church and don't believe in god.

With such a wide variety of beliefs represented, the only logical definition we can give for the word is that a Christian is anyone who identifies himself or herself as such.

I will also submit that it is logically impossible to define "True Christian", because each of these billion different people will have their own idea what a True Christian ought to be. Therefore, because of the No True Scotsman logical fallacy, we have to conclude that it is meaningless to speak of "True Christians".

 

[TruthMiner]

Heidi, Free, Thessalonian and anyone else who believes I need to ‘accept’ the doctrine of the trinity in order to be a Christian. You have a problem. You claim to be Christians because you believe this doctrine. And therefore you are saying that I am not a Christian because I don’t believe it.

What exactly DO you believe on that matter? Just a sentence or two is fine.

 

[mutzrein]

Heidi, Free, Thessalonian and anyone else who believes I need to ‘accept’ the doctrine of the trinity in order to be a Christian. You have a problem. You claim to be Christians because you believe this doctrine. And therefore you are saying that I am not a Christian because I don’t believe it.

What exactly DO you believe on that matter? Just a sentence or two is fine.

Pertaining to what a Christian is or in regard to the Trinity?

 

[John the Baptist]

I read these threads, I find them fascinating and I do learn from them.

I am interested, in what different people define as a true Christian.

My definition: A person who believes in Christ and obeys His commandments.

Going to Church every Sunday does not necessarily mean a person is a true Christian. Shouting out praises to God in public also does not mean necessarily mean someone is a true Christian.

******
John here:
I believe that it is any fully surrendered Born Again person that lives by the power of God to Mature as the Godhead requires, to be safe to save for all of eternity. Nahum 1:9 As one is Led of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8:14) he will either advance one way or the other as he follows or does not follow. Mankind is either 'IN' Christ or out of Christ, (Romans 8:1) and it is his choice to follow or not to follow!

At Conversion a True Agape Love is given. This Love is the reason for being a Real Christian! The MOTIVE, if you will? The Love is not a MATURE PRINCIPLE at Conversion, as it was not so at Adam's Creation. Perfect, yet not fully Mature. And see some of us in Revelation 3:16-17 with 'some' Love that identifies the subjects final question!

The 'definition of a true Christian' then?
Finds them in Obedience to how much 'Light' the Godhead has given them. And the forward walk is required for their Maturity! See Philippians 4:13 & 2 Corinthians 12:9 for the provisions given to these ones by the Godhead!

 

[gingercat]

There is no shortage of debate over this topic, that's for sure. Before we take a stab at defining "true christian", perhaps we could begin with defining "christian".

we have to conclude that it is meaningless to speak of "True Christians".

Christians are followers of Christ. They believe everything in the Bible and strive to obey everything what Jesus teaches which is in the New Testament. period! Not just part of it, everything!