What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection?

[John 8:32]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Here's the difficulty. I pointed out to Jesus' Words identifying the components of every parable, and included the observation of that missing VITAL component in the dissection you put up, associating that with the rich man.

So, I'll ask you once again, who is the rich man?

You see there is a rule that is proven with these examples, that being even when it's right in front of some people's eyes they still can't see it, and are therefore not meant to see it. Beating someone over the head with the obvious is not my piece of cake.

Just as the supposed passive observer who just hit this thread can't see it and won't address the identical matter.

s

Hmmm, I don't know, again I ask for your verse by verse enlightenment.

 

[smaller]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Hmmm, I don't know, again I ask for your verse by verse enlightenment.

I'd suggest you read Jesus' Words previously cited about understanding all parables and then get back to me if you agree with Him.

s

 

[John 8:32]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

I'd suggest you read Jesus' Words previously cited about understanding all parables and then get back to me if you agree with Him.

s

Shall I beg? What is your verse by verse explanation of the parable?

 

[smaller]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Shall I beg?

No, but if you want to share you'll have to bother to read what I already posted.

The dissection you put up has been floating around the web for at least 10 years. I pointed out the one vital missing component and you haven't even bothered to figure it out when it was laid at your feet.

Proverbs 28:11
The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.

So, go find what Jesus said.

s

 

[John 8:32]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

No, but if you want to share you'll have to bother to read what I already posted.

The dissection you put up has been floating around the web for at least 10 years. I pointed out the one vital missing component and you haven't even bothered to figure it out when it was laid at your feet.

Proverbs 28:11
The rich man is wise in his own conceit; but the poor that hath understanding searcheth him out.

So, go find what Jesus said.

s

Frankly, I give up. I do not know of another way to ask for your explanation so that I can understand this parable.

 

[for_his_glory]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.†(Frederic Bastiat)

And yes, I am a Christian. The selections available here were sectarian Christians only, and I am not a sectarian of any sort.


Hmm! Does Universalism come to mind here? Explains so much to me know.

Claude Frédéric Bastiat (29 June 1801 – 24 December 1850) was a French classical liberal theorist born of Unitarian parents.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

 

[smaller]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Frankly, I give up. I do not know of another way to ask for your explanation so that I can understand this parable.

If you can't be bothered to read the posts I put up already on this matter, what is the point?

The parable speaks directly to IMMEDIATE LIFE after DEATH. But it is in parable form and 'all parables' MUST contain the components that Jesus Himself provided by HIS WORDS. If a parable dissection does not so contain those components, they are FALSE, period. Your dissection has a LARGE MISSING COMPONENT.

What is that missing component?

s

 

[smaller]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

“When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves in the course of time a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.” (Frederic Bastiat)

And yes, I am a Christian. The selections available here were sectarian Christians only, and I am not a sectarian of any sort.


Hmm! Does Universalism come to mind here? Explains so much to me know.

Claude Fr̩d̩ric Bastiat (29 June 1801 Р24 December 1850) was a French classical liberal theorist born of Unitarian parents.

Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

What? You think you had an A HA moment? I think the commentary of Bastiat fits our present national/worldly dilemma quite succinctly. Doesn't mean anything more than that.

And fwiw, I believe that the wicked will ALL be in the Lake of Fire PERMANENTLY and FOREVER because THE WORD says so, just so ya know.

Thanks for the chuckle though.

s

 

[for_his_glory]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

What? You think you had an A HA moment? I think the commentary of Bastiat fits our present national/worldly dilemma quite succinctly. Doesn't mean anything more than that.

And fwiw, I believe that the wicked will ALL be in the Lake of Fire PERMANENTLY and FOREVER because THE WORD says so, just so ya know.

Thanks for the chuckle though.

s

Never said you were and never said you're weren't, but just wondering why you would follow the liberal beliefs of someone who is and also why you can not explain the parable John 8:32 is asking you to explain.

 

[smaller]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Never said you were and never said you're weren't, but just wondering why you would follow the liberal beliefs of someone who is and also why you can not explain the parable John 8:32 is asking you to explain.

Well heaven forbid we'd make observations of the rampant criminal illegal activity in our government at nearly any level and pray for honesty and transparency in in this country! Liberal. Puke.

If you think you can read perhaps you can run the little drill that I put to John 8:32?

When it's plain as day and people don't deal with it, I presume either ignorance or intentional bypass.

I can't help either condition. Sorry.

s

 

[YTENZ10]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

So we will then be waiting, whether in the grave or with Jesus, for an incorruptible physical body? What are we going to be allowed to do in our eternal existence besides sin, obviously? And, yes, I've heard some think that instead of eternal fire for the wicked will instesd be permanent annihilation.

 

[Dude-Dastic]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

When you die, you don't go to either heaven or hell. You're dead.

When God made Adam, He first made his body from the dust of the earth. Afterward, He breathed the breath of life in his nostrils, and Adam became a living soul (Gen. 2:7). A "living soul" is a living being, and in order to be a living being you must have a body and the breath of life. You cannot be alive unless you have both.

Body + Breath = Life

Body - Breath = Death

If you look closely, death is the reversal of the creation process. The body without the spirit, or breath of life, is dead (James. 2:26). When a person dies, the breath of life is the first to go; it returns to God (Eccl. 12:7) regardless if the person is righteous or not. Soon thereafter, the body returns to the ground.

God told man that he would die should he eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:16, 17). Throughout the Bible, God makes is very clear that death is real (Ezek. 18:4, 20; Rom. 6:23), and when you're dead everything about you ceases to exist (Eccl. 9:5, 6). A dead person only exists in the mind of God and in the mind of his family and friends. (The latter only lasts until those with the memories die themselves.) You do not exist anywhere else. You don't exist at all when you're dead.

The resurrection is a testament to the awesome power of God. It doesn't matter how long a person's been dead or how scattered his remains are or how disintegrated his body is -- He can call that person back into existence just as he was before he died. This Christ will do for all the righteous when He returns, albeit with some improvements (1 Thess. 4:16, 17; 1 Cor. 15:51-53). After the righteous are resurrected, then and only then are we taken to heaven. We DO NOT go to heaven before then.

Going to heaven at death makes little sense. I mean, if a man can die and go to heaven, then what purpose is there of a resurrection? It would be completely unnecessary to raise anyone from the dead and bring them to heaven if they're already there. And if a man can die and go to heaven, then we Christians ought to be wishing for death every day. Death means an express ticket to heaven; no need to wait until Jesus returns. In that case, dead is better; death would be worth more than life.

 

[Hitch]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

When you did, you don't go to either heaven or hell. You're dead.

When God made Adam, He first made his body from the dust of the earth. Afterward, He breathed the breath of life in his nostrils, and Adam became a living soul (Gen. 2:7). A "living soul" is a living being, and in order to be a living being you must have a body and the breath of life. You cannot be alive unless you have both.

Body + Breath = Life

Body - Breath = Death

If you look closely, death is the reversal of the creation process. The body without the spirit, or breath of life, is dead (James. 2:26). When a person dies, the breath of life is the first to go; it returns to God (Eccl. 12:7) regardless if the person is righteous or not. Soon thereafter, the body returns to the ground.

God told man that he would die should he eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:16, 17). Throughout the Bible, God makes is very clear that death is real (Ezek. 18:4, 20; Rom. 6:23), and when you're dead everything about you ceases to exist (Eccl. 9:5, 6). A dead person only exists in the mind of God and in the mind of his family and friends. (The latter only lasts until those with the memories die themselves.) You do not exist anywhere else. You don't exist at all when you're dead.

The resurrection is a testament to the awesome power of God. It doesn't matter how long a person's been dead or how scattered his remains are or how disintegrated his body is -- He can call that person back into existence just as he was before he died. This Christ will do for all the righteous when He returns, albeit with some improvements (1 Thess. 4:16, 17; 1 Cor. 15:51-53). After the righteous are resurrected, then and only then are we taken to heaven. We DO NOT go to heaven before then.

Going to heaven at death makes little sense. I mean, if a man can die and go to heaven, then what purpose is there of a resurrection? It would be completely unnecessary to raise anyone from the dead and bring them to heaven if they're already there. And if a man can die and go to heaven, then we Christians ought to be wishing for death every day. Death means an express ticket to heaven; no need to wait until Jesus returns. In that case, dead is better; death would be worth more than life.

I suggest a closer look at the Apocalypse.

 

[Dude-Dastic]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

I suggest a closer look at the Apocalypse.

Revelation 6:9, 10 mentions souls crying out from under the altar. This cry was figurative, like the cry of Abel's blood (Gen. 4:10). Here, the word "soul" refers to living beings.

 

[Hitch]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Revelation 6:9, 10 mentions souls crying out from under the altar. This cry was figurative, like the cry of Abel's blood (Gen. 4:10). Here, the word "soul" refers to living beings.

How did you come up with that ?

 

[John 8:32]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

I suggest a closer look at the Apocalypse.

What could you glean from that? It was all over and done before 75 AD.

 

[Hitch]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

What could you glean from that? It was all over and done before 75 AD.

I dont think you could get anything from it J.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

No one ever talks about what Heaven will be like before the resurrection of our bodies. If we will be just spirits without a physical body until it's resurrected, how will we be able to, for example, eat in the current Heaven? I don't think we can do what we can now without a body, so we will have to wait until then to enjoy a better existence in the New Heaven which will come to Earth as the New Jerusalem? What will we be able to do in the meantime after death? And why must both heavens be so different from what we now know in this life except for sin? I've heard of some things that people enjoy now won't likely be there. Sin I can understand won't be there, of course. Yet why would God make anything good here to just discard or even replace it after this life?

You will not have existence in heaven. Nor will you experiencw anything whilst dead, you will sleep. You will know nothing until the day you are awoken.

That pretty much answers all your questions.

 

[thethinkingrebel]

When you die, you don't go to either heaven or hell. You're dead.

When God made Adam, He first made his body from the dust of the earth. Afterward, He breathed the breath of life in his nostrils, and Adam became a living soul (Gen. 2:7). A "living soul" is a living being, and in order to be a living being you must have a body and the breath of life. You cannot be alive unless you have both.

Body + Breath = Life

Body - Breath = Death

If you look closely, death is the reversal of the creation process. The body without the spirit, or breath of life, is dead (James. 2:26). When a person dies, the breath of life is the first to go; it returns to God (Eccl. 12:7) regardless if the person is righteous or not. Soon thereafter, the body returns to the ground.

God told man that he would die should he eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil (Gen. 2:16, 17). Throughout the Bible, God makes is very clear that death is real (Ezek. 18:4, 20; Rom. 6:23), and when you're dead everything about you ceases to exist (Eccl. 9:5, 6). A dead person only exists in the mind of God and in the mind of his family and friends. (The latter only lasts until those with the memories die themselves.) You do not exist anywhere else. You don't exist at all when you're dead.

The resurrection is a testament to the awesome power of God. It doesn't matter how long a person's been dead or how scattered his remains are or how disintegrated his body is -- He can call that person back into existence just as he was before he died. This Christ will do for all the righteous when He returns, albeit with some improvements (1 Thess. 4:16, 17; 1 Cor. 15:51-53). After the righteous are resurrected, then and only then are we taken to heaven. We DO NOT go to heaven before then.

Going to heaven at death makes little sense. I mean, if a man can die and go to heaven, then what purpose is there of a resurrection? It would be completely unnecessary to raise anyone from the dead and bring them to heaven if they're already there. And if a man can die and go to heaven, then we Christians ought to be wishing for death every day. Death means an express ticket to heaven; no need to wait until Jesus returns. In that case, dead is better; death would be worth more than life.

Well said bro!

 

[reba]

Re: What type of existence will we have in the present Heaven before the Resurrection

Not a lot of Scripture backing for the statements made.....