Whats up with all the self righteous here?

[John the Baptist]

Am I reading the above post correctly? Are we told we are to judge with righteous judgement? That's what John 7:24 appears to be saying. 8-)

****
What does your calling tell you? :wink:

We do know the difference between open seen & documented sin & what we are not able to judge, huh? (ones human brain with their real motives)

Hay, that is for the forum readers & 'me'! :fadein:

 

[Nikki]

We'll, if this is soma... I'm sad to say but that's the end of the road...
Usually, I'm a pretty trusting guy... and it gets me in trouble because I want to believe those around me and I want to trust my fellow Christian.

But then there comes a time where I need to heed scripture... and I recall reading that there will be blemishes among us, those who seek to corrupt us through lies and deceit. If this is Soma, then my heart goes out to you that you will get right with God and stop this deceitfull foolishness.

You see, Saul was God's annointed and thus, David respected God enough not to cause harm, for he knew Saul would bring destruction upon himself.., and Saul sought the power of the Lord, and through that seeking, he turned and got lost in what the purpose of God's commandments were for... And he became foolish and didn't wait for Samual to come and present the offering...

Soma, narrow is the gate that leads to life, but wide is the gate of destruction. Take care of your walk with the Lord and the Lord will take care of your needs. Wander from the instructions of the Lord, and you heap destruction upon yourself. Do not be as the tax collector and if you are, do not be suprised on how you are treated...

Peace.

Jeff

Good post. Right now, I'm having a hard time believing that he has a girlfriend in the hospital. What if that's a lie too? Everytime he gets caught lying or just being plain ignorant, he goes into pity party and saying he's sorry, but his girlfriend is sick....blah, blah, blah.

I'm done with him. I think the best thing we could all do it put him on ignore.

*******
Hi Vic, John here:
Posted: Sun Dec 11, 2005 7:43 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That wouldn't be a "judgement" post, would it?
_________________
"When the final line is over
It's certain that the curtain's gonna fall
I can hide inside Your sweet sweet love
For ever more"

You tell me? :wink: ---John

Call it what you want. I'm not perfect. But I DO know when I have the right to be mad at someone that has deceived me MANY times. Soma would be THAT person. I also have the right to believe that he's full of lies because that is what he has proven to us MANY times in the past. He is beginning to remind me of the boy who cried wolf.

If he IS telling the truth about his girlfriend, then I feel bad for her. I have prayed many prayers for her AND Soma.

Call me judgemental if you want.

 

[greyfeather]

What others think of you realy dosen't matter or shouldn't bother anyone who is truly a child of God. As Paul said in 1 Corintians 4: 3 - 5........

1 Let a man so account of us, as of the ministers of Christ, and stewards of the mysteries of God.

2 Moreover it is required in stewards, that a man be found faithful.

3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged of you, or of man's judgment: yea, I judge not mine own self.

4 For I know nothing by myself; yet am I not hereby justified: but he that judgeth me is the Lord.

5 Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.


We also can see in Matthew what Jesus says about forgiveness or rather how many times we are to forgive a brother/sister. Matthew 18:21-22......

21 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22 Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.



Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi John,
I don't think it's bad to be judgmental, keeping in mind that I also will be judged in the manner in which I judge.

That being said, if I have lied or deceived anyone purposfully, I would expect to be called on it and I would expect my brother or sister in Christ to set me straight. Why? Because I want to be right with God and as God has discplined me, it has been for my own good.

You know what though, I really find it ironic that when we are disciplined by our bretherin, we kick, bite and cry "it's not fair"... Life's not fair and that's just a part of being in this world. But you know what? When we take our last breath on this earth, we can reflect back on how meaningless it all was...

God Bless

Jeff

 

[John the Baptist]

John here:
I am guessing, but Saul said that he was by far the worse than most. I am not guessing about what he said, but about if he were or not?
Anyway, Christ did not execute Saul the murderer (Paul) did He?

Now: This is a 'forum', and one of the very best that there is. It is not a church, is it??? If it is, then I agree that it has separate responsibilities.

Being a forum, it has the world on board. Surely one cannot be thinking that all here are Christians???? In the world are seen non Christians, but the Word of God say's that these ones are the world?? the Revelation 17:1-5 folks, and the Matthew 7:21-23 ones +???

OK: Does God go through the world, or these professed ones of the world and execute them? Or did He silence satan or his helpers? And surely if Saul was not a 'helper' of satan, who is?? Now, if Christ had 'removed' Saul, some of you folk would not have had a Paul to confuse you! :wink: 2 Peter 3:16

Even with saying that, I think that 'Christians' are warned of God, that we are not to get involved with [mind] reading of ones motives that are inside the mind & heart of anyone. Or any one who claims to be Christian.

A church is another thing. But even then, the responsibility for these ones is seen only for the judging for their membership. And that too is only for the judging of open repeated unrepentant known sin.

I personally find this simple to understand. Yet, it seems that it is hard for forum members to see??? And it is becoming apparent that the more mod's that any forum gets, the more confused the site becomes into thinking that they are all now to be in unity as a new organized 'fold'?? :o

And then it loses its God Blessed effectiveness, & is good for nothing but censor & 'pill/ups'! See Matthew 5:13, context? See the preceding verses? Matthew 5:11-12.

 

[stovebolts]

Hey John, Thanks for your reply.

Here's my delima... perhaps I define the Church with too broad of a brush. Let me explain.

Very, (emphasis on Very) very simply put, I believe that salvation is a simple matter of accepting Christ and obeying His word. I beleive that if you have accepted Christ as your savior, then I am obligated to call you brother and I should rejoice in our brotherhood. Now, I'm not sure about others, but I call Soma brother because he has professed the Jesus is the Son of God.

Now, the salvation through Christ is not inclusive to any particular sect. In other words, God will save those he chooses to save. I am a simple worker in the field as those around me. So, here is my delima...

If Soma has purposfully deceived his brothers and sisters in Christ, he needs to repent. It is not for me to judge wether or not he is right with God, for only God knows his heart, but it is right for me to call him out if he is purposfully being deceptive. Would you not agree on this?

Look as Simon the socerer. He was not excluded from the kingdom, but he was set straight. Now, do I do this with my authority? Do I repremend Soma so that I can bolster my own ego? Do I build myself up by tearing him down? Heaven forbid if I do for that is not the purpose that God has intended.

Yes John, this is a forum and there are many children of God here as well as children of Satan, but there is also much hope, friendships and great works being done. More than once my salt has lost it's flavor and I'm sure that I have been trampled many a time. Soma has declared himself as a child of God, I am not to judge him any other way for if he were not claiming to be a child of God, the church would have no authority over him and it is my hope that his walk with our Lord will grow and he can experience the great things that God can do in his life.

So John, with humilty toward my brother, know that I do not seek to bolster myself and I do not see you as bolstering yourself. Let me ask you, how do you see this whole situation and how do you think it should be handled?

Much regard,
Jeff

 

[John the Baptist]

Hey John, Thanks for your reply.

Here's my delima... perhaps I define the Church with too broad of a brush. Let me explain.

****
John here:
Hi, let me start by saying that I do not like to reply to personal replys. The reason being that it is usally taken personal! : There are but very few that I can relate to here, that, that is not the case. In other words I group posted teaching with or against scripture. (not persons)

OK: The 'delima brush'? :wink: This is where we are at opposite ends. A couple verses come into mind, in John 10:16 Christ Himself tells us of 'other sheep I have that are not of this fold' that He must bring! Surely He is not in these folds, or why must He bring them into HIS 'VIRGIN' FOLD. Here is where we ('i') get in trouble with a person thinking that I am talking of them personally. Christ (not me per/say) informs us that these are His 'sincere sheep' that are in yoked membership with other wrong folds.

Now, when Christ is not there, who is?? Or why Must Christ bring then out if He were there?? Compare Revelation 18:4 & Revelation 3:9. Surely My Master would not want me to paint these all as Christian [FOLDS], would He? No, it is not possible and still be Led of Him! Romans 8:14.

But, you seem to be saying that all the saved make up this fold. But that is neither Everlasting Gospel or Eternal Covenant. Revelation 14:6 & Hebrews 13:20. Can one toss out Christ's Words of Matthew 18:15-18 & Matthew 16:18-19 just because Rome perverts the Master's WORDS??
Also, Christ's OWN of John 1:11 had no non/Virgin doctrine. It was Christ that was rejected. Matthew 23:38.

So, this is where we are seen in seperate (so far) unstandings. Let me use good old Mich. street talk for clarification? :wink: What I am always saying, is that the fold's of Revelation 17:5 are the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH. (that is again the Word of God & also the compilars caps) Yet, CHRIST also states that HE HAS HIS PEOPLE YOKED INSIDE OF THIS MESS! Revelation 18:4.
This is the Everlasting Gospel's Present Truth Message! Revelation 14:6-10.

Now: For another remark on your question about this site, and how I see censorship? (if I got the question right?)
You are asking about a poster?? and as I see it, the one could be one of several people even. I do not know that perhaps you & Vic + several others here, are not even the same person??? Seriously, I do not know. I had a post on another site that even had my 'personal' data for a posting that I had not posted. (who had access to that?)

But, regardless. There is no one here that can read a persons motives! There is no one here that know who might be the next Saul (Paul) in being Converted. And I for one personally believe that there are not any Christians that would want to read any ones mind??? But some here it seems, even talk about the what 'IF' it was such, and such, about a [person]?? See Genesis 49:17.

So: I am a Freedom Believing Born Again Christian. But, do you know this, and just because I say so?? And, how do you know who I am??
What is being said by me, is that unless a post is open documented sin, and then is unrepentant, it will be seen so by sincere Christians. And again, this is a forum, not a church. And God Himself did let satan & Cain live on in the earth, not in the Sanctuary from O.T. to N.T.

If perhaps this is not understood by you? Ask Vic to clarify it for understanding!

--John
*****

Very, (emphasis on Very) very simply put, I believe that salvation is a simple matter of accepting Christ and obeying His word. I beleive that if you have accepted Christ as your savior, then I am obligated to call you brother and I should rejoice in our brotherhood. Now, I'm not sure about others, but I call Soma brother because he has professed the Jesus is the Son of God.

Now, the salvation through Christ is not inclusive to any particular sect. In other words, God will save those he chooses to save. I am a simple worker in the field as those around me. So, here is my delima...

If Soma has purposfully deceived his brothers and sisters in Christ, he needs to repent. It is not for me to judge wether or not he is right with God, for only God knows his heart, but it is right for me to call him out if he is purposfully being deceptive. Would you not agree on this?

Look as Simon the socerer. He was not excluded from the kingdom, but he was set straight. Now, do I do this with my authority? Do I repremend Soma so that I can bolster my own ego? Do I build myself up by tearing him down? Heaven forbid if I do for that is not the purpose that God has intended.

Yes John, this is a forum and there are many children of God here as well as children of Satan, but there is also much hope, friendships and great works being done. More than once my salt has lost it's flavor and I'm sure that I have been trampled many a time. Soma has declared himself as a child of God, I am not to judge him any other way for if he were not claiming to be a child of God, the church would have no authority over him and it is my hope that his walk with our Lord will grow and he can experience the great things that God can do in his life.

So John, with humilty toward my brother, know that I do not seek to bolster myself and I do not see you as bolstering yourself. Let me ask you, how do you see this whole situation and how do you think it should be handled?

Much regard,
Jeff

 

[stovebolts]

Well John,
I suppose I know what you mean. Don’t fret, I’m war torn and don’t take things as personally as I used too… I suppose it’s from hanging around too long in Apologetics. Regardless, rest assured that I am not Vic, nor is Vic I. That being said, I understand your point. How are we to know?

Although I am war torn, I have not lost my hope nor have I lost my trust for what others say. Call me a glutton for punishment, but when somebody tells me something, I’m more apt to believe them, than to be cynical of them.

Which brings me to this, Jesus accepts us where were at, yet he demands obedience which requires change. While it is true that I am not without error, I believe that I am in the process of being molded by God to do His work. If this be true, then would it be safe to say that God is working within his fold in the same manner? And if this also be true, would it be safe to say that we are all at different stages within our walk with God? Now, please know that I am speaking from within the fold, but if God is truly omnipresent, then wouldn’t he also be working outside of his fold as well?

St. Augustine said it best: (Translated and commentary by John K. Ryan)

How shall I call upon my God, my God and my Lord, since, in truth, when I call upon him, I call him into myself?
What place is there within me where my God can come? How can God come into me, God who made heaven and earth? (Psalm 144:3 Psalm 146:5) O Lord my God, is there anything in me that can contain you? In truth, can heaven and earth, which you have made and in which you have made me, contain you? Or because without you whatever is would not be, does it hold that whatever exists contains you? Since I do not indeed exist, and yet would not be unless you were in me, why do I beg that you come to me? I am not now in hell, yet you are even there. For “if I descended into hell, you are present†(James 4:6, 1 Peter 5:5, Proverbs 3:34) Therefore, my God, I would not be, I would in no wise be, unless you were in me. Or rather, I would not be unless I were in you, “from whom, by whom, and in whom are all things.†(“Our hearts are restless until it rests in you.†Sums up Augustine’s whole teaching on man’s relationship to God. It is perhaps the most quoted in in the confessions.) Even so, O Lord, even so. To what place do I call you, since I am in you? Or from what place can you come to me? Where can I go beyond heaven and earth, so that there you may come to me, my God, who have said, “I fill heaven and earth?†(Romans 10:14)

So you see John, you are correct. How do we know who is Saul that might be transformed into a Paul for He alone is the Shepherd.

 

[Vic C.]

You are asking about a poster?? and as I see it, the one could be one of several people even. I do not know that perhaps you & Vic + several others here, are not even the same person???

:o What is that supposed to mean? Can you not determine the differences or similarities in posting styles? Also, most already know this, but let t be known that Mods and Admins especially, have the ability to check the details and IP addresses of members.

8-)

 

[John the Baptist]

Which brings me to this, Jesus accepts us where were at, yet he demands obedience which requires change. While it is true that I am not without error, I believe that I am in the process of being molded by God to do His work. If this be true, then would it be safe to say that God is working within his fold in the same manner? And if this also be true, would it be safe to say that we are all at different stages within our walk with God? Now, please know that I am speaking from within the fold, but if God is truly omnipresent, then wouldn’t he also be working outside of his fold as well?

*****
OK:
Just a couple thoughts for a short reply. You ask: "If this be true, then would it be safe to say that God is working within the fold in the same manner?

There are the Broadway ones of Matthew 7:13-14. They even are cited as quite the ones! see Matthew 7:21-22. Then when Christ's Virgin 'fold' of Matthew 23:38 became DESOLATE of Christ, who took over this True fold. Was it safe to think that God was working with then? Who was? Who took over when Christ was rejected? See Revelation 3:9. Was God working in this fold?? Then you read in Revelation 17:1-5 with the compliers Caps! THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH. True or false? I surely would not suggest that any person attend these folds.

Now: Be sure to understand me. Surely Christ has His 'Sheep' still inside of yoked false folds. And some of Christ's sincere ones are still there, and many have died while in membership doing the very best that they knew & were convicted of. Yet, this is our day! Look around in daily documentation!! And it is the 'folds' that are Christ/less. If that is not so, why does He tell us in John 10:16 about having 'other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring'. If He were in these folds, why must He bring them to a fold where He is at??? Surely Christ is not doing as you ask, working in the 'fold'.

Then we come down to our time. With the FATAL eternal life or eternal death question of Revelation 18:4 To come out of her [my people]. For they are partakers of her documented open sins if they continue on with support & membership, and they will receive of her plagues. Eternally lost in other words. Obadiah 1:16

No, it would be quite a stretch for 'me' to call any fold a Christian one when it has false doctrines seen in them that have never changed, along with open sin daily documented, or thinking that Christ would be in that fold! See Joshua 7:12's last part of the verse.

And outside a fold? That is another bibical subject! :wink:

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

Quote:
You are asking about a poster?? and as I see it, the one could be one of several people even. I do not know that perhaps you & Vic + several others here, are not even the same person???

What is that supposed to mean? Can you not determine the differences or similarities in posting styles? Quote:
You are asking about a poster?? and as I see it, the one could be one of several people even. I do not know that perhaps you & Vic + several others here, are not even the same person???

Also, most already know this, but let it be known that Mods and Admins especially, have the ability to check the details and IP addresses of members.


Hi, naw, I have said over and over that I learned years ago before becoming a Christian even, that the best thing to do is tell the truth & I
would never need to remember what I said. I think that is was mom that taught me that? :wink:

Anyway: It was quite a while before I even found out that you were a he. :o

Since becoming a Christian years ago & you ask the question of 'can you not determine differences or similarities in posting styles?' let me say yes to that as far as the post goes. GOOD OR BAD :fadein: Truth or error. But as far as the person posting goes??? I never ever try to read the mind & motive! Now, would I baptise one that would not accept Christs orders of Matthew 28:20? Not even a possibility.

OK: about the mod's. I was quite sure that, that was the way that it worked on the other forum that I frequented in the past. And as I said, a good [posting] friend got upset that I posted up something that was never posted by me. I suspected that the 'upper' ones must have did the post, but who could be sure?

And here on this site? surely you do not believe that it can be any more secure than a church fold do you??? If satan can & does get into the 'leadership' of Gods Virgin fold, what means does one have to keep him from any forum site??? One might be surprised who are their real friends?

Anyhow: That is what I mean. :fadein:
---John

PS: Quote: "Also, most already know this, but let it be known that Mods and Admins especially, have the ability to check the details and IP addresses of members." Should this not scare some of us??? (o' by the way, I ran the spell check? OK? :wink

 

[Vic C.]

Hi, naw, I have said over and over that I learned years ago before becoming a Christian even, that the best thing to do is tell the truth & I
would never need to remember what I said. I think that is was mom that taught me that?

Anyway: It was quite a while before I even found out that you were a he.

LOL! : : YOU are not the only one who was confused. Even with changing my username from vicjr to Vic and removing Rebecca St. James photo from my signature, some still got it wrong. :o :wink:

PS: Quote: "Also, most already know this, but let it be known that Mods and Admins especially, have the ability to check the details and IP addresses of members." Should this not scare some of us??? (o' by the way, I ran the spell check? OK?

Oh really? Did I pass the audition? : And no, it should not scare anyone. It's as useful, if not moreso, as caller ID on your telephone. 8-)

 

[bibleberean]

What?! You aren't a woman? :o

That was Rebeca St. James?

I am shocked and disappointed!

Who are you really?

: : : : : : :

 

[stovebolts]

Hey Vic.. Nice emoticon! (or are you my other personality LOL) Vicâ€ÂYesâ€Â, Jeff, “Noâ€Â. Vic “Blue†Jeff “Redâ€Â… Viff Say, ‘Me confused’ LOL

Well John, I must say…and I hope you hear me correctly and that I have heard you correctly.

Reading your posts and the way you have threaded scripture, I don’t think that we will agree on doctrine in the same manner. I am not persecuting you, I am just saying that I don’t see scripture the way you do. Here’s why.

First, I don’t think that your context is correct. Rather, I think you create your own context by grabbing verses here and grabbing verses there to paint a picture that agrees with what you are saying. Thankfully, this is not apologetics so I’m not out to debate you in this matter. First, I’m burned out with apologetics and secondly, I’ve other area’s that I feel warrant my time. Please, do not take this the wrong way… it is simply not my calling at the moment.

But this I must say and please correct me if I have viewed this incorrectly. It appears that you have built more of a case to divide, than to reconcile. Have I missed something here? Am I wrong in how I am reading your words? If so, please let me know so that I will not think wrongly of what you are saying and have a false view of your character.

I believe that when we rebuke, it is for the glory of the individual that they return to God. Now, to put that in context with the topic, we have an individual that argued a case and didn’t like the results. Then, it appears that the individual perhaps created a new account on this forum to purposefully deceive its viewers and members. Is this a doctrinal error or is it a practical, moral error according to both ones basic conscious and biblical standards?

So, what is it John? Is this one outside the fold? Is he a blemish among the flock? Tell us, are we to treat him as a tax collector and if so, exactly how was a tax collector treated? (I think they were just avoided and nobody went out of their way to pay them any mind). Tell me John, when we judge the writing of one who clearly does wrong in the site of not only the Lord, but the ones around him, are we, as son’s of God to judge and condemn him? Keep in mind here John, that we too, will be judged in the manner that we judge others.

So, here is my proposal John and please, I expect you to show me where I err, for that is what we as brothers who profess Christ as our Lord are told to do. John, can you tell what is in my heart? Can you honestly tell what’s in yours? If the answer is no, then who is authorized? I contend that it is our Lord Jesus that is authorized, a descendent of David who’s God is the God of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham, whom is also the same God I serve.

Did Jacob sin and would you consider him a righteous man in the days of his youth? Did he not plainly deceive those around him? Did he not wrestle with God? Did God not do great and wonderful things in his lifetime and for the generations to come? Yes, Jacob was a sinner and deceived his own father purposefully and his brother wanted to kill him. Soma is a confessed Christian and we are to correct him where we know how in the manner that we know and in this, it is to build him up although for him, I am sure he feels torn down. Sometimes, I believe that in some cases, one needs to tear down the wall, before the pasture can be realized...for blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Do some think that we are being self righteous? Maybe some are and those, God will say that he never knew them, for like the Pharisees who distort their faces when they fast, certainly their reward is in this lifetime and they will not inherit the kingdom of God, nor will the lovers of lies, adulterers, and fornicators be allowed inside the gates of the great city.

So the cry of the gospel should become louder and louder, Repent, for the Day of the Lord is at hand! Repent of your ways for our God is a gracious God, a God of mercy and grace who is slow to anger and just in His judgment. His ways are not our ways and our ways are not His ways for He sent his only Son to make atonement for the redemption of the world that he himself created for his own glorious purpose. So, in summary, I believe that we are to call the lost unto the Lords salvation and build the brotherhood up to be strong in the Lord and everything we do, we need to do that those around us might be built up as we ourselves are built up in Christ… For our days are numbered and in the end, it would be sad to be said that we divided the flock and lost a child of the lord for our own glory and our own reward. That being said, doctrine needs to be sound, but where milk is required, meat should not be forced down ones throat.

Peace be with you and please know that I am not offended by you nor is there any malice in my tone. I speak to you in this letter calmly as two friends discussing a topic over a nice cup of coffee. I hope this finds you well.

 

[stovebolts]

John,

After posting, and finding that there were additions to the thread, I got to thinking. In your own style, are you simply stating fact that there are those outside the fold that actively seek to deceive the fold? Are you simply calling out a reminder for the edification of those who do not realize or have knowledge of this?

You see, this is a problem in this form of communication… it is too easy to misunderstand anothers words based on our own understandings. This is why I like to understand ones personality, it helps to set the tone of their words.

If I have misunderstood the direction of your words, I ask that you forgive me through understanding how I viewed what you were writing for surely, we are to be aware and cautious of those who purposefully and willingly deceive. In that, I believe I am in full agreement with the cautions you have put forth. Is this a correct perspective on what you have stated?

In kind regard,
Jeff

 

[bibleberean]

What?! You aren't a woman? :o

That was Rebeca St. James?

I am shocked and disappointed!

Who are you really?

: : : : : : :

Seriously,

I have seen a picture of brother Vic.

You can't look more like a man than this brute!

No one is going to wonder what gender he is! :angel:

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi, John here. We have a good discussion going :fadein:. But look at all of our other remarks posted. They had seemed to be clear??

Finally your [POSTING] say's this..
" You see, this is a problem in this form of communication… it is too easy to misunderstand anothers words based on our own understandings. This is why I like to understand ones personality, it helps to set the tone of their words.

(me here: you still do not understand that the only thing that WE can understand is [to know] for sure of [open sin] by any of mankind! not ever that of ones 'motive & mind reading')

If I have misunderstood the direction of your words, I ask that you forgive me through understanding how I viewed what you were writing for surely, we are to be aware and cautious of those who purposefully and willingly deceive. In that, I believe I am in full agreement with the cautions you have put forth. Is this a correct perspective on what you have stated?

In kind regard,
Jeff

John here:
I try to be open as sunlight, but it seems that even then I spin my wheels. It seems that this topic has turned from this other 'person' to me as a person??
Let me just add that if any one wants to talk about a persons suspposedly [open sin] the forums are no place for it. (as far as a judgement of ones motives)
I have always discouraged emails to me at home for internet 'folks' talk. Again see Genesis 49:17. But I do leave open personal correspondence that are not forum related & about people.

That is not to clear??? :wink: Well then, this guy that some here seen to define even with a 'perhaps', of being a liar, is what was on some peoples mind I think?? Surely this is not anything that I care to verify as being truthful! And if it is or was even, then what, censor or ban him??? This seems to be the issue??
Well, once again, that is up to you'ins, but it is not my kind of belief, that of forced religion.

And yes, I understand that I will hear from others that dis/agree with my concept of a forum that has begin to sounds like they are changing to a church mentality. Matthew 18:15-18 Now, ask yourself in reading this scripture of Christ's again, do you think that this forum or, any other one, can bind or loose anything on earth and in heaven?????

---John

 

[John the Baptist]

Hi. : John here.
On your other 'posting' it say's this:
"
Well John, I must say…and I hope you hear me correctly and that I have heard you correctly.

Reading your posts and the way you have threaded scripture, I don’t think that we will agree on doctrine in the same manner. I am not persecuting you, I am just saying that I don’t see scripture the way you do. Here’s why.

First, I don’t think that your context is correct. Rather, I think you create your own context by grabbing verses here and grabbing verses there to paint a picture that agrees with what you are saying."

John here: Surely I agree that you are in the thinking with most of the worlds professed ones. Most are found here in Revelation 17:1-5 & the Masters Words of Matthew 7:22. Now, I am not saying that that is you, but I am agreeing with your posted message! (OK? understood?)

And again you are starting to make me feel that I am defending myself? And I am not.
It is true that Christ's Inspired Words need none of your 'posts' mocking in saying that He is grabbing verses here and grabbing verses there to paint a picture that he is saying is true. (slight truthful alteration :wink

But this is exactly the way that the Word of God teaches its own hermeneutics! It needs none of what is uninspired man stuff.
First we see 2 Timothy 3:16 telling us that ALL scripture is Inspired, and is to be used for ... DOCTRINE! Seems that this is N.T. inclusive! OK?

Then we see in Matthew 4:4 the Words of the Master Himself. "... but by EVERY WORD THAT PROCEEDETH OUT OF THE MOUTH OF GOD." That to seems very clear, & 66 bk. inclusive!

Then By Inspiration of 1 Corinthians 14:32 N.T. we again see His Work ('Holy Spirit) through Paul [documenting].. "And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets." I think that you understand that the Holy Spirt is telling the universe that the writers of THE BOOK do not contradict each others pen?

That is quite an 'doctrinal' study seen here already for what you say is 'my' personal false way of studying. Yet, notice what the devil did when he confronted the Master in Matthew 4:6? He used the promise of protection for God's children taken from Psalm 91:11 ! Did Christ say as you, that, that is not the way to study My Word?? See Matthew 4:7 NO! Christ quoted the CONDITION for all of His Promises from the O.T. Deuteronomy 6:16. It seems that Christ at least believed (as the devil knew) that man cannot live by bread alone, BUT BY EVERY WORD OF THE BOOK!

OK: Just one more for the Bible being its own hermeneutics. Over in Isaiah 28 we see abouts drunkards. You do know what a spiritual drunkard is do you not?? Compare the Wine of Babylon? Revelation 17:1-2. Well, perhaps this is over (or under mine, huh :wink ones head, but lets try it??

We can see in Isaiah 28:7-13 the '.. the priest and the prophet have erred [through strong drink], ... they err in vision, they stumble in judgement. For [all tables] are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is [no place clean]. (Compare Revelation. 17:1-5 here again!)

NOW pay attention for what to do!

"Whom shall HE (GOD!) teach knowledge? and whom shall HE make to understand [DOCTRINE]? (read 2 Timothy 3:16 again) Them that are [weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breast.] (do you remember Paul in Hebrews 5:11-14?)

For precept [must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, HEAR A LITTLE, AND THERE A LITTLE.]" ???????Can you understand this!

It works like putting a puzzle together. Surely you use a Bible Commentary? Why do you do that?

Case in point: The Tim. verses tell us how to understand doctrine. So one looks for pieces of a puzzling doctrine to them?, say a doctrine about the serpent in the Garden of Eden?? And in Revelation 12 they find one piece of the doctrinal puzzle. They find many names for this serpent, to build the doctrinal picture of that puzzle. Not always does scripture use the serpent as satan, but usually it refers to him as either 'satan', 'serpent', a 'wonder in heaven', 'his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth', and 'the dragon'. (+ others)

One first finds the serpent where? in Gen.-Rev. All of this truth can be studied in Isaiah 14:12-14, Ezekiel 28:13-17. Yes, and there are many many more verses scattered all through the Word of God. Try the one of Revelation 3:9!! Synagogue of who?

I apologize to you for not putting any confidence [at all] in all of the Ph.D's of humanity, seeing that most believe it seems, as you do??? Any way, the ones of Rev. 17 are full of these ones who hardly believe in unity on anything other than Daniel 7:25's Babylonian Junk food. :

---John

 

[stovebolts]

Hi John,
Yes, I have been enjoying the conversation. I hope that I can turn that frown from your face, for I do not want to put you in a position where you feel like you are defending yourself. Please, relax and accept my style of writing. I will try not to put you on the defensive. Again, if we were sitting across from each other with a cup of coffee, I believe you would hear the tone in my voice, which is very relaxed and not condeming toward you.

John, I understand why you don't like to get personal. Most around here don't. But I say that we have to have a personal relationship with God, for it to have any meaning in our lives. What's wrong with trying to get to know sombody on the forum and grow in Christ through fellowship?

Anyway, I'll try and respect your wishes. You've written a lot and it will take me time to get all that you've written. If we do not see eye to eye on scripture, does it mean that we can't edify one another? I am not above learning more about scripture for I am far from deeply knowledgable in all aspects of scripture.

For now, I've got to get back out to the garage and finish putting the snow blower back together after welding it back together... breaks over... Maybe I'll have time later tonight to post a decent reply. If not, maybe tomorrow and if not tommorow, I'll try on Monday.

Peace be with you.

Jeff

 

[stovebolts]

John,
Just wanted to get back with you. Sorry for loosing the flow of our conversation. The week kinda got away from me while trying to get everything done before the holidays.

Wishing you the best ever in Christ, our saviour. May God bless you and yours.

Jeff