When does a believer receive eternal life?

[JLB]

I said:
"Please provide the teaching that Jesus only died for sins before salvation, since that seems to be your view. Although it's difficult to know for sure, since questions are generally not answered."

Which has been rather difficult to pin down.


So, what exactly did Jesus die for on the cross?

Please explain Acts 10:43 - All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.”

Esp the red words.

Nothing yet about future sins.

 

[JLB]

You've been answered from Hebrews. Believing what the Bible says is up each one of us.

Nothing in Hebrews about future sins.

 

[JLB]

This question keeps popping up, in spite of the clear words of Jesus, who said: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."

Can you die Freegrace?

Until you have been raised from the dead with a body that can not die anymore then you can still die.

Now we all who believe have the hope of eternal life, which means we have salvation by faith in Christ Jesus and will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith.

Here are the scriptures:


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

And again


that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7


And again


In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9

 

[Papa Zoom]

Is it of no relevance to anyone on this thread that none of the early church fathers believed OSAS? None. There are a hundred reasonably scholarly sites on the Internet that make this point. It is beyond dispute. Even some Calivinistic scholars recognize that the doctrine is traceable to Calvin's misreading of Augustine. It is fine to sling Bible verses back and forth, but the reality is that no one - no one - in the first 1500 years of Christianity saw the OSAS doctrine in the verses that the OSAS folks now seem to find so clear as to be beyond dispute. Does this not concern anyone?

It also occurs to me that the "OSAS verses" still make sense if OSNAS is true, but the OSNAS verses do not make sense if OSAS is true. The OSNAS folks recognize that salvation must begin with an act of belief and repentance, so the "OSAS verses" are not foreign to OSNAS theology. But the reverse is not true - the verses indicating we must continue in belief (and the many early Christian writings to the same effect) are difficult to fit into an OSAS theology.

Even if I had spent my entire life in Campus Crusade and the Southern Baptist Church and thus were emotionally and theologically committed to OSAS, I think I'd be a little more humble about my position. Those who don't accept OSAS and persist in their OSNAS "delusion" are lost because they don't hold the OSAS position - really? This frankly strikes me as what Hermit was suggesting in his post #171: "When you are insane, you don't know you are insane, because you are insane."

I do find that relevant. And it is a concern. At least a curiosity. I have read a few books and blogs on OSAS and find there are several flavors of the issue. Kinda like the book on 4 views of hell, there's differing views amongst the OSAS crowd. Some arguments tug me to the left, some to the right. One verse seems negated by another verse. And on and on. I find this endless argument very tiring.

 

[ezra]

I do find that relevant. And it is a concern. At least a curiosity. I have read a few books and blogs on OSAS and find there are several flavors of the issue. Kinda like the book on 4 views of hell, there's differing views amongst the OSAS crowd. Some arguments tug me to the left, some to the right. One verse seems negated by another verse. And on and on. I find this endless argument very tiring.

this will end up a dead end neither side will coincide

 

[gr8grace3]

Yes we see those who desire to have their ears tickled with what you want to hear.

Living in sin and immorality, practicing the works of the flesh, and thinking their is no need to confess your sin or repent because you have embraced the doctrine of OSAS.


12 Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. 13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. 14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. Romans 8:12-14

For if you live according to the flesh you will die;


JLB

FreeGrace and I have said this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over........We had better confess our sin 1 John 1:9, walk in the Spirit, be filled with the Spirit and live in His plan for our lives. If we don't, the consequences are eternal and miserable.............it just isn't loss of salvation.

This is why NO ONE can prove loss of salvation from scripture.

And it is SIMPLE to prove eternal security............" They will NEVER perish." John 10:28.

If believers continually live in the flesh............you bet they can die physically before their time, lose eternal rewards,lose out on glorifying Christ, shrink away in shame at His coming, suffer divine discipline, have a pile of ashes at His evaluation of them, and enter the kingdom as if through fire........But many/most believers are working hard and believe brothers and sisters should FRY if they don't "measure up."

 

[FreeGrace]

John 10:28 is half of a statement, which is the result of meeting the condition of verse 27.

Wrong on both counts.

v.28 is a FULL statement of FACT. And v.27 isn't a requirement for never perishing. Receiving eternal life is. The wording is crystal clear.

My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.
And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. John 10:27-28

Many sentences begin with "and". This is one example. And v.28 has 2 complete statements. Both of which teach eternal security.

Once the condition is met which will be Judged on the Day of Judgement according to each persons deeds, then a person will receive eternal life or not.

The only condition that Jesus SAID in v.28 about never perishing was to be given eternal life by Him. The words are very clear.

28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice 29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. John 5:28-29

Please stop trying to pit Scripture against Scripture. These verses don't "trump" John 10:28 in any way.

If John 28 was the only verse in the Bible then you would be all set, but since it's not then your theology lacks reconciliation of all Jesus said.
JLB

How many times does Jesus have to make a statement of FACT before it will be believed?

The answer is only ONCE. Please quit trying to squirm around John 10:28 and the FACT that once given eternal life, the recipient shall never perish. That is a fact, stated by Jesus.

To disagree with this FACT is to disagree with the Savior.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"This is a agricultural metaphor that speaks of having to be in fellowship in order to produce fruit."

Tell that to Jesus on the Day of Judgement.
It's scripture.

I won't have to. He already knows what He said.

otoh, be prepared to answer why His statement about recipients of eternal life has not been believed. I'm sure He'll ask.

 

[FreeGrace]

Nothing yet about future sins.

Has been given, and repeated rejected. That's not on me.

 

[FreeGrace]

Nothing in Hebrews about future sins.

His sacrifice "once for all" means exactly that. And no one, including yourself has shown otherwise.

 

[FreeGrace]

Now we all who believe have the hope of eternal life, which means we have salvation by faith in Christ Jesus and will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith.

Which occurred the MOMENT on believes, because Jesus said whoever believes HAS eternal life.

 

[FreeGrace]

I do find that relevant. And it is a concern. At least a curiosity. I have read a few books and blogs on OSAS and find there are several flavors of the issue. Kinda like the book on 4 views of hell, there's differing views amongst the OSAS crowd. Some arguments tug me to the left, some to the right. One verse seems negated by another verse. And on and on. I find this endless argument very tiring.

The same is found among the conditional security crowd. Seems losing salvation can be from a number of things:
1. ceasing to believe
2. unrepentant sin
3. specific sins
4. etc

ps: love your new avatar!

 

[JLB]

Which occurred the MOMENT on believes, because Jesus said whoever believes HAS eternal life.

No scripture just opinion.

Now we all who believe have the hope of eternal life, which means we have salvation by faith in Christ Jesus and will receive the salvation of our soul at the end of our faith.

Here are the scriptures:


And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

And again


that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. Titus 3:7


And again


In this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by various trials, 7 that the genuineness of your faith, being much more precious than gold that perishes, though it is tested by fire, may be found to praise, honor, and glory at the revelation of Jesus Christ, 8 whom having not seen you love. Though now you do not see Him, yet believing, you rejoice with joy inexpressible and full of glory, 9 receiving the end of your faith—the salvation of your souls.
1 Peter 1:6-9

 

[gr8grace3]

I do find that relevant. And it is a concern. At least a curiosity. I have read a few books and blogs on OSAS and find there are several flavors of the issue. Kinda like the book on 4 views of hell, there's differing views amongst the OSAS crowd. Some arguments tug me to the left, some to the right. One verse seems negated by another verse. And on and on. I find this endless argument very tiring.

It is contending for His truth. Loss of salvation is a direct assault on The Lord Jesus Christ's character,integrity and virtue. I find the endless assault on His character and nature very degrading and shameful to my Lord And Savior.

New American Standard Bible
'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

 

[JLB]

His sacrifice "once for all" means exactly that. And no one, including yourself has shown otherwise.

It's up to you to prove what you claim from the scriptures.

Post the scripture that says Jesus died for our future sins.


JLB

 

[JLB]

It is contending for His truth. Loss of salvation is a direct assault on The Lord Jesus Christ's character,integrity and virtue. I find the endless assault on His character and nature very degrading and shameful to my Lord And Savior.

New American Standard Bible
'So because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of My mouth.

Not only that, but those that do not overcome will be blotted out of the book of Life.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5



JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

Not only that, but those that do not overcome will be blotted out of the book of Life.

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5



JLB

It does NOT say, " those that do not overcome will be blotted out of the book of life." Those are your words.

I

 

[JLB]

I said this:
"This is a agricultural metaphor that speaks of having to be in fellowship in order to produce fruit."

I won't have to. He already knows what He said.

otoh, be prepared to answer why His statement about recipients of eternal life has not been believed. I'm sure He'll ask.

“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me.
5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:1-6


Those who do not remain in Him, are cast out as a branch.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6

• Anyone refers to people who are in Him. No metaphor
• Abide refers to remain connected in Him. No metaphor
• they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. No metaphor

Why would you teach God's people that they do not need to remain joined to Him?




JLB

 

[JLB]

It does NOT say, " those that do not overcome will be blotted out of the book of life." Those are your words.

I

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5

• Only people who overcome are not blotted out of the Book of Life.

JLB

 

[gr8grace3]

He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels. Revelation 3:5

• Only people who overcome are not blotted out of the Book of Life.

JLB

~~-bolded,underlined and enlarged above~~Those are your words. Rev 3:5 does not say that.