When does a believer receive eternal life?

[reba]

This is a great testimony to the power of God in your life. Thanks.

But remember that King David committed rape and murder as a mature believer, not some young buck feeling his oats.

We need to keep all this in perspective.

He repented

 

[ezra]

Not true. Scripture has all the answers. And the answers don't contradict each other.

i have yet to contradict scripture .i used the term willful sin as in no repentance i believe in eternal security but not to the point you do. there is a responsibility on our part
2 Peter 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge; 6 and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness; 7 and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble: 11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. " if we lack these things "
Proverbs 26:11
11 As a dog returns to his own vomit,
So a fool repeats his folly.
they was never saved in the beginning if one fails to return back most likely never saved i stand on a know so salvation not some think so hope so maybe so not sure

all through the Bible we been told how we should conduct ourselves {do we ever fail ?} yes we get in the flesh

 

[ezra]

But remember that King David committed rape and murder as a mature believer, not some young buck feeling his oats.

We need to keep all this in perspective.
He repented

as a true christian should the spirit of God dealt with his heart .i am not the judge of anyone salvation . but i dont buy this doing as we please after salvation Paul addressed that n Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? 3 Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, "so we also might walk in newness of life "

 

[th1b.taylor]

as a true christian should the spirit of God dealt with his heart .i am not the judge of anyone salvation . but i dont buy this doing as we please after salvation Paul addressed that n Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? 3 Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, "so we also might walk in newness of life "

I've spoken some with FreeGrace and our believes, our foundation appears to run along the same path, I have just grown so tired of the NOSAS group jumping of the Alter and sinning against me and, thus, against God. Brother, there are three basic positions that, on this issue, fall well within the Pail of Orthodoxy, all three being backed with good scripture references. They are the Pretrib of whom I am. All of them supportable with the scripture, Midtrib and the posttrib believers. As nearl as my study has shown that Two of the three positions must in order the ¿opposing? position,must ignore but that is a risky business in

 

[ezra]

I've spoken some with FreeGrace and our believes, our foundation appears to run along the same path, I have just grown so tired of the NOSAS group jumping of the Alter and sinning against me and, thus, against God. Brother, there are three basic positions that, on this issue, fall well within the Pail of Orthodoxy, all three being backed with good scripture references. They are the Pretrib of whom I am. All of them supportable with the scripture, Midtrib and the posttrib believers. As nearl as my study has shown that Two of the three positions must in order the ¿opposing? position,must ignore but that is a risky business in

not sure i understand your post

 

[th1b.taylor]

as a true christian should the spirit of God dealt with his heart .i am not the judge of anyone salvation . but i dont buy this doing as we please after salvation Paul addressed that n Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? 3 Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, "so we also might walk in newness of life "

I've spoken some with FreeGrace and our believes, our foundation appears to run along the same path, I have just grown so tired of the NOSAS group jumping of the Alter and sinning against me and, thus, against God. Brother, there are three basic positions that, on this issue, fall well within the Pail of Orthodoxy, all three being backed with good scripture references. They are the Pretrib of whom I am. All of them supportable with the scripture, Midtrib and the posttrib believers. As near as my study has shown that Two of the three positions must, in order the ¿opposing? position, but that is a risky business in in view of the truth that more than once, or as I have noted it, God has high-lighted His command to neither add nor to subtract from the Word of God, making it essential to learn how the verses could appear to contradict one another, in Christ they do nothing f the sort, not for me.

Amd after He ran me through the scriptures He left me with Pretrib and now I'm stuck here and I have not many that believe this is a license to sin and those that do,, ARE NOT SAVED, but neither are we saved unto fear. God says 365 times, one for every day of the year to fear not in one form or another.

 

[ezra]

I've spoken some with FreeGrace and our believes, our foundation appears to run along the same path, I have just grown so tired of the NOSAS group jumping of the Alter and sinning against me and, thus, against God. Brother, there are three basic positions that, on this issue, fall well within the Pail of Orthodoxy, all three being backed with good scripture references. They are the Pretrib of whom I am. All of them supportable with the scripture, Midtrib and the posttrib believers. As near as my study has shown that Two of the three positions must, in order the ¿opposing? position, but that is a risky business in in view of the truth that more than once, or as I have noted it, God has high-lighted His command to neither add nor to subtract from the Word of God, making it essential to learn how the verses could appear to contradict one another, in Christ they do nothing f the sort, not for me.

Amd after He ran me through the scriptures He left me with Pretrib and now I'm stuck here and I have not many that believe this is a license to sin and those that do,, ARE NOT SAVED, but neither are we saved unto fear. God says 365 times, one for every day of the year to fear not in one form or another.

ok but what if i lean toward mid trib never the less not sure how this ties in to the o.p i just read my Bible/scriptures try do best i can with out man telling me what i should believe

 

[FreeGrace]

I said:
"No. But the Bible is clear about the lack of works involved in salvation. So we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that repentance is turning from sin, since everyone continues to sin anyway."

Your answer is no yet it appears you find fault with my post shown in your reply to this quote.

I was clarifying my answer. For clarity.

FreeGrace said "Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?"

I see a reference to John 10:28 as if it stands alone the same then can be said of Luke 13:3

All declarative statements are stand-alone. They don't need modifiers.

Re: Luke 13:3, sure. I explained the Greek word translated "repent".

The point of my question had to do with one's personal action of repenting. It seems some people think their action of believing saves. I don't. I believe what the Bible says about "God our Savior". He saves. And we know who He saves from 1 Cor 1:21. "He is pleased to save those who believe."

 

[FreeGrace]

He repented

And King David was already saved when he raped and murdered. And then under conviction, changed his mind about what he did.

 

[FreeGrace]

i have yet to contradict scripture .i used the term willful sin as in no repentance i believe in eternal security but not to the point you do. there is a responsibility on our part

I merely take Jesus completely at His word. When He said that those He gives eternal life shall never perish, I believe exactly that.

iow, I take eternal security to the SAME POINT that Jesus did. Not a micron less.

2 Peter 1 Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained a like precious faith with us in the righteousness of our God and the Saviour Jesus Christ: 2 Grace to you and peace be multiplied in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord; 3 seeing that his divine power hath granted unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that called us by his own glory and virtue; 4 whereby he hath granted unto us his precious and exceeding great promises; that through these ye may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world by lust. 5 Yea, and for this very cause adding on your part all diligence, in your faith supply virtue; and in your virtue knowledge; 6 and in your knowledge self-control; and in your self-control patience; and in your patience godliness; 7 and in your godliness brotherly kindness; and in your brotherly kindness love. 8 For if these things are yours and abound, they make you to be not idle nor unfruitful unto the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For he that lacketh these things is blind, seeing only what is near, having forgotten the cleansing from his old sins. 10 Wherefore, brethren, give the more diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never stumble: 11 for thus shall be richly supplied unto you the entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. " if we lack these things "
Proverbs 26:11
11 As a dog returns to his own vomit,
So a fool repeats his folly.
they was never saved in the beginning if one fails to return back most likely never saved i stand on a know so salvation not some think so hope so maybe so not sure

all through the Bible we been told how we should conduct ourselves {do we ever fail ?} yes we get in the flesh

All great verses, and none teach that we have a responsibility to maintain our own salvation. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[ezra]

The point of my question had to do with one's personal action of repenting. It seems some people think their action of believing saves. I don't. I believe what the Bible says about "God our Savior". He saves. And we know who He saves from 1 Cor 1:21. "He is pleased to save those who believe."

the only action our part is praying or one could say responding to his call.. repenting is a action to turn from

 

[FreeGrace]

as a true christian should the spirit of God dealt with his heart .i am not the judge of anyone salvation . but i dont buy this doing as we please after salvation

I agree. No believer should "do as he pleases". But Scripture does not teach that one who does such things will lose salvation. That puts salvation in the hands of the believer and makes the believer's works or efforts key in his/her salvation.

Paul addressed that n Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. We who died to sin, how shall we any longer live therein? 3 Or are ye ignorant that all we who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were buried therefore with him through baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, "so we also might walk in newness of life "

The red words don't mean "stay saved" or restore salvation. It means living the way we're supposed to live.

 

[ezra]

All great verses, and none teach that we have a responsibility to maintain our own salvation. Jesus is the author and finisher of our faith

the maintaining is to live the life walk the walk we have law vs grace the law is holy but does not save it only tells us right and wrong .Grace is a wonderful thing. we also have to throw mercy in there mercy is asking God to forgive us Grace is the the forgiveness even though we are not worth to be technical jesus never used the words eternal security .he said eternal life . i have stated many time i lean toward eternal security . i just simply do not believe in living how we want after salvation and saying we are saved .its not in the scripture . i have studied this out and my belief is by my study and convictions .

 

[ezra]

I agree. No believer should "do as he pleases". But Scripture does not teach that one who does such things will lose salvation. That puts salvation in the hands of the believer and makes the believer's works or efforts key in his/her salvation.


The red words don't mean "stay saved" or restore salvation. It means living the way we're supposed to live.

alright it makes me no never mind { But Scripture does not teach that one who does such things will lose salvation. } i never said lose i said i doubt they was ever saved . once again my finial say a true child of God will come to his senses ..even though we been given the power to live it and walk it. we still fail all the more reason for Christ

 

[reba]

2Sa 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
reads like a repentance to me..

 

[chessman]

2Sa 12:13 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the LORD. And Nathan said unto David, The LORD also hath put away thy sin; thou shalt not die.
reads like a repentance to me..

2 Samuel 12:1 So Yahweh sent Nathan to David, and he came to him and said, “Two men were in a certain city; one was rich and the other was poor. ​

Romans 8:26 And likewise also, the Spirit helps us in our weakness, for we do not know how to pray as one ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with unexpressed groanings.​

Sounds like God intercedes for those are genuine believers who when we heard the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom also when we believed were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the down payment of our inheritance, until the redemption of the possession, to the praise of his glory.

 

[Edward]

OK, right.

But, in post #387, you quoted Rom 6:7-23 and then said this:
"This read to me as we are free from sin. "

So, could you explain how, from those verses, you are free from sin if you still sin?


Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?

I'll take a stab at this if you don't mind. When our old man is dead to us and we abide in Christ and do not take our eyes off of him like Peter did...(then he started to sink immediately!)...then we are free from sin. We are taking our marching orders from the Lord/ Holy Spirit. And He may just tell us to do something that is illegal by man's law. But since we are Spirit led and abiding in Christ, it is not sin. It may seem sinful according to mans law, and even would be sin if it were done outside of Gods will, but since we are Spirit led doing the will of God it is not imputed unto us as sin...but being obedient!

There is a few examples of this in scripture. How about when God broke Peter out of jail? That's illegal to make a jail break. Even according to God because we are supposed to follow the authority of mans law because it is God that put man's government in place etc.., But since Almighty God Himself wanted Peter out of jail...it happened and it was not sin for Peter.

Uh, they used to lie some here and there in the OT...to the enemy and according to Gods will. So it was not sin. The key here, is being in the Spirit, in Christ and not making these (illegal) decisions of our own volition. Understand the idea?

"So, could you explain how, from those verses, you are free from sin if you still sin?"...

God is bringing us to perfection, from glory to glory. As we walk in the Lord and according to His Judgments, precepts, and commandments...we are free from sin. However...(big however!)...All fall short of the glory of God, and we stumble daily. We take our eyes off of Him, for whatever reason...(we get distracted by circumstance, work, etc., and forget His presence with us. We're (to a degree) only human and we all make mistakes and sin. (That that I would do, I do not, and that that I would not do...that I do!)

So we get a check in our spirit, and if we are wise, we confess these sins and ask forgiveness and (His blood and love covers a multitude of sins) He forgives us...we are back in good standing, good graces with God again. THAT is why King David is a man after God's own heart. That man repented fast and always turned back to the Lord...like we always should.

 

[Edward]

I said this:
"You've just moved the goal posts. Jesus didn't add that condition in His statement about recipients of eternal life NEVER PERISHING.

But your comment INCLUDES a condition: "abiding in Him". If that is true, then John 10:28 is NOT true. Are you comfortable with that?"

Stop right there. I never said any such thing. So why make this false insinuation?

Truth: no one is "allowed to not abide in Him".
Truth: all believers are COMMANDED to abide in Him.

See the difference?

Instead of going over every single point here (and probably making you even angrier than you are/sound)...let me ask you something...

You are vehemently disagreeing with people and accusing multiple people of different things, assuming things about you, putting words in your mouth, twisting things, and even calling Jesus a liar...so...let me ask you, what are you defending? What point are you trying to make that you are getting so frustrated about?

Because I certainly do not want to assume anything about you...as is your wishes...so can you give me a summary of your position and what it is that you are defending? What is your intended point here?

With all due respect Brother.

 

[Edward]

Wow, I really messed that post up and had to edit edit edit out the mistakes. I was going to post something earlier and wrote it, but then decided not to, and just clicked out without posting it.
I guess it was still there, Lol.

As an aside...God bless you Mike....

 

[Edward]

none of us do we strive to enter. we have responsibilities. i was just reading 2 peter 1 his divine power has given us everything we need for a Godly life.. so we really have no excuse

That's the way I see it too. This is not creating a works based salvation, but standing up to our Christian duty. And we will have no excuse on that day just like you say.