When does a believer receive eternal life?

[Edward]

Have you achieved sinlessness, answer nope
or do you still sin? answer yup
do i repent YUP Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

We agree on this, Sister?!

 

[reba]

 

[ezra]

I guess it is for me, because I got a pretty big check in my spirit on this. I mean, wow, what if He came back...as a thief in the night when I wasn't looking for Him, and hadn't did the prodigal son thing and repented yet...? Uh-oh. I can't take that chance Brother. I don't want to be left behind at the rapture. Or be the plumber in heaven, lol

none of us do we strive to enter. we have responsibilities. i was just reading 2 peter 1 his divine power has given us everything we need for a Godly life.. so we really have no excuse

 

[Edward]

Those who have added their works to His salvation and have never fully trusted in His Work alone. They are good people, nice people and they are folks who have said," I need to ADD to Your finished work to be saved." He knows the sinner who has believed/trusted TOTALLY on The Lords work. He will never know those who take the wide path of doing their own good for their salvation.........even if they 'sprinkle' in a little Jesus.

Sorry Brother, but I don't buy that. Not for me. I am not adding works to salvation. That's a ridiculous assumption on your part!

I'm simply building up my treasures in heaven...

Aren't you?

 

[Edward]

none of us do we strive to enter. we have responsibilities. i was just reading 2 peter 1 his divine power has given us everything we need for a Godly life.. so we really have no excuse

Exactly. It doesn't say sit on the couch. It says, Arise! Shine! :yes

 

[reba]

Luk 19:12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.
Luk 19:13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.
Luk 19:14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.
Luk 19:15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.
Luk 19:16 Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds.
Luk 19:17 And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities.
Luk 19:18 And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds.
Luk 19:19 And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities.
Luk 19:20 And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin:
Luk 19:21 For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow.
Luk 19:22 And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow:
Luk 19:23 Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury?
Luk 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luk 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)
Luk 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.
Luk 19:27 But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me.

 

[JLB]

Have you achieved sinlessness, answer nope
or do you still sin? answer yup
do i repent YUP Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

REBA!!!!!



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

in one post you make very valid points what true eternal security is.. then on the other hand you say its ok if the continue in said sin pattern

I have NEVER SAID 'its ok if the continue in said sin patter'. EVER. So please cease from these extremely FALSE statements.

.. so which is eternal security is knowing your secure in Christ then on the other hand simply because they are living in willful sin.

Why is "willful sin" an issue in the security of the believer? Are we saved by God, or by our avoidance of sin? It seems your view is the latter. If that is so, then your view is really nothing more than earning salvation. That's what the Pharisees thought.

.there saved .i really need to just pull away from this post ..i have read so many false accusations that simply are not what scripture teaches us.

You just now made a very FALSE accusation about what I've supposedly posted.

you discounted 2nd Corinthians 5:17 a new creation in Christ...

You're really on a roll now. This is another FALSE claim. I dealt with the verse, and explained what it means.

And I gave a number of verses that encourage, command us to live lives worthy of our calling. Why were they ignored?

Being a new creature in Christ doesn't automatically mean we will live like one. That's why we are encouraged and urged to walk worthy.

But you've dismissed my point altogether.

 

[FreeGrace]

Have you achieved sinlessness, answer nope
or do you still sin? answer yup

OK, right.

But, in post #387, you quoted Rom 6:7-23 and then said this:
"This read to me as we are free from sin. "

So, could you explain how, from those verses, you are free from sin if you still sin?

do i repent YUP Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"You've just moved the goal posts. Jesus didn't add that condition in His statement about recipients of eternal life NEVER PERISHING.

But your comment INCLUDES a condition: "abiding in Him". If that is true, then John 10:28 is NOT true. Are you comfortable with that?"

So we're allowed to not abide in Him

Stop right there. I never said any such thing. So why make this false insinuation?

Truth: no one is "allowed to not abide in Him".
Truth: all believers are COMMANDED to abide in Him.

See the difference?

[/QUOTE]JLB posted the scripture which says no murderer has eternal life within him[/QUOTE]
Did Jesus die for the sin of murder or not? If He did, how can murder remove eternal life from someone?

And...if eternal life can be removed, etc, then how could Jesus say those He gives eternal life shall never perish, since that couldn't be true?

...and we know that if we're guilty of any one that we're guilty of all...so...has no eternal life within him...doesn't mean what that says? I can't believe that.

Please consider carefully what you're posting. Taking what is posted right here means no one will go to heaven.

Yes, Abiding in Him. You know, this is the sort of thing that...I hope I am wrong about, and that you are right! Because I'm not exactly the type of guy who has made all right decisions in his life, so this sort of brings on my own fear and trembling.[/QUOTE]
What exactly is there to fear? Your salvation, or fear of God's discipline, which will be painful and make you very uncomfortable, whether anyone else sees that or not?

It seems to me that you're afraid of losing salvation. If that's your fear, then you are NOT trusting in Christ to save you. In fact, you're trusting (hoping/wishing) in your own efforts to save you.

What if that is right, and I had believed like you do? Then I may just be cast aside as a withered branch to be burnt because no fruit. I don't want to be the guy with 1 talent that buried it in the ground, then had it taken from him and got fired. Even if I were still saved...I don't want to be the plumber again in heaven!

Then quit fearing loss of salvation and fear God's discipline. Good works are to be rewarded. Strive to be rewarded.

I'm going to press forward in most cautiousness to be safe...and to not have to be the plumber again, lol. I may not be an Elijah, but I am not going to be a Jonah.

What you're going to be is yourself. No one else.

...and it wouldn't be calling Jesus a liar if a man took the more cautious road of increased obedience and abiding in the Spirit either. That's a far out notion.

The lie is to believe that salvation can be lost, which makes Jesus a liar for teaching that those given eternal life shall never perish.

He didn't say "maybe not perish", or "probably won't perish", or any other wishywashy thing.

He flat out said SHALL NEVER PERISH.

People either believe that or not. Those that do not believe that salvation can be lost and some recipients will perish, in direct opposition to what Jesus said.

That's what I would fear; contradicting what Jesus said. And those who think salvation can be lost are doing just that.

 

[reba]

But, in post #387, you quoted Rom 6:7-23 and then said this:
"This read to me as we are free from sin. "

So, could you explain how, from those verses, you are free from sin if you still sin?

from sin not as in free to sin i dont have better words.. it seems simple to me..

OK, right.

But, in post #387, you quoted Rom 6:7-23 and then said this:

Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?

My act? no His grace yes
this statement " Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?" leads me to ask you, the same style of questions i have answered for you , is there salvation with out repentance ?

 

[chessman]

do i repent YUP Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Ironically; it's impossible to 'pay the last cent' of one day's worth of sin debt on our own.

The "you" that Jesus was speaking to in this passage you quoted were hypocrites who did NOT believe in Jesus nor have "eternal life" given to them:

Luke 12:56-59 (NASB)

56 You hypocrites! You know how to analyze the appearance of the earth and the sky, but why do you not analyze this present time?
57 “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right? 58 For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I say to you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last cent.”
Luke 13 (NASB)
Call to Repent
1 Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. ...
​

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When do you think people receive the free gift of "eternal life" and on what basis of Scripture?

 

[Mike]

People have differences in interpreting scripture while honestly seeking His Truth in them. Apparently, this extends to our Statement of Faith.

Several members have used it to interpret our position on OSAS based on the stated belief that believers are "unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ".

Do not make the mistake of assuming we have an OSAS position here on CFnet. We have no official position for or against. The staff has as much diversity in this respect as the members at large do. We all believe this, which might explain this statement. Whether we can and do lose our salvation by walking away from the Lord, He will continue to love us.

Please cease using our SoF to claim ownership of our position. DO NOT respond to this post, and DO NOT use it to make our SoF the topic of conversation. I'm only making this point for clarification.

 

[ezra]

I have NEVER SAID 'its ok if the continue in said sin patter'. EVER. So please cease from these extremely FALSE statements.


Why is "willful sin" an issue in the security of the believer? Are we saved by God, or by our avoidance of sin? It seems your view is the latter. If that is so, then your view is really nothing more than earning salvation. That's what the Pharisees thought.


You just now made a very FALSE accusation about what I've supposedly posted.


You're really on a roll now. This is another FALSE claim. I dealt with the verse, and explained what it means.

And I gave a number of verses that encourage, command us to live lives worthy of our calling. Why were they ignored?

Being a new creature in Christ doesn't automatically mean we will live like one. That's why we are encouraged and urged to walk worthy.

But you've dismissed my point altogether.

very well --you have all the answers

 

[th1b.taylor]

Rom 6:7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
Rom 6:8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
Rom 6:10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
Rom 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


This read to me as we are free from sin ... i have read posts in this thread that say is other words we (christians) are to sin.

I would add to that, only 1 item. I know where the notes and the scripture address' are but I certainly recall the lesson is based on Romans 6:22 & 23. We all know That Romans 3 has two Key Verses, ten and 23. it goes something Like this, from memory: 10 There are none righteous, not one. 23 For all have fallen short of the Glory of God.

So, there is the Command seen through out the Four Gospels where Jesus forgives and tells the healed person to go live their lives and to sin no more. Man oh man, that says it all but how can we ever do such perfection, the Jewish People have never accomplished it and they tried for about twenty centuries longer than we have been trying to measure up.

This looks like a monumental task and I tell you, it is! It is so large that to this point 2017, all the way back to about Four-thousand-BC there have been exactly one human that did it and He was and is the Son of God. Not son or sons of God, like us, no this Son of God is the Second Person of the Triune God Head.

Where does that leave us? The key is almost to simple. I will present this in a fashion that should not be easy to misunderstand: For better than twenty-three years I hit the Bars Night Clubs and Ice Houses with my Guitar and Sound System to earn an extra hundred dollars.

Now, that is not true but neither is it a lie, I entered the place for that night in my Country Regalia and I would make it known that I was lonely that night and some Young would leave her car in the Parking Lot and go home with me. I planned to sin. Everything from the hundred dollar Shirts to the two hundred dollar or better Cowboy Boots and my one hundred and fifty dollar Stetson were geared for the sole purpose of me getting what I desired more than the money.

Today? I left the hat and the boots behind and until the MS made a wreck of my Pick Hand I played with the Worship Service Team, sang Special Music and involved myself with a Country and Western Gospel Ministry in the Texas and Louisiana Prison Systes.

On occasion I let my guard down and I catch myself in a sin but I never plan to sin these later days I, absolutely never plan any sin and then carry it out. The Holy Spirit always stops me and reminds me who I am and whose I am and as much as I love young women, I will not take God with me into sin.

In summary, I stumble but I do not fall or you could ay that Satan still tries to bring me down but because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in me, I do not fall.

 

[FreeGrace]

from sin not as in free to sin i dont have better words.. it seems simple to me..

What seems simple to some isn't so clear to others. Like John 10:28.

Could you explain the difference? It still seems as if "free from sin" means not sinning any more.

My act? no His grace yes
this statement " Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?" leads me to ask you, the same style of questions i have answered for you , is there salvation with out repentance ?

No. But the Bible is clear about the lack of works involved in salvation. So we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that repentance is turning from sin, since everyone continues to sin anyway.

The Greek word "metanoeo" is formed fromf 2 words: "to change", and "mind". So properly, repentance is a change of mind. So, repentance regarding salvation is a change of mind regarding several things:
1. change of mind regarding the need for salvation
2. change of mind regarding one's ability to save themselves (all self righteous people think they're good enough)
3. change of mind about who Jesus Christ is
4. change of mind about what Jesus Christ did for us personally

 

[FreeGrace]

Ironically; it's impossible to 'pay the last cent' of one day's worth of sin debt on our own.

The "you" that Jesus was speaking to in this passage you quoted were hypocrites who did NOT believe in Jesus nor have "eternal life" given to them:

Right. They hadn't repented.

Luke 12:56-59 (NASB)

56 You hypocrites! You know how to analyze the appearance of the earth and the sky, but why do you not analyze this present time?
57 “And why do you not even on your own initiative judge what is right? 58 For while you are going with your opponent to appear before the magistrate, on your way there make an effort to settle with him, so that he may not drag you before the judge, and the judge turn you over to the officer, and the officer throw you into prison. 59 I say to you, you will not get out of there until you have paid the very last cent.”
Luke 13 (NASB)
Call to Repent
1 Now on the same occasion there were some present who reported to Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mixed with their sacrifices. ...
​

When do you think people receive the free gift of "eternal life" and on what basis of Scripture?

I am looking forward to an answer on this question.

 

[FreeGrace]

very well --you have all the answers

Not true. Scripture has all the answers. And the answers don't contradict each other.

 

[FreeGrace]

In summary, I stumble but I do not fall or you could ay that Satan still tries to bring me down but because of the presence of the Holy Spirit in me, I do not fall.

This is a great testimony to the power of God in your life. Thanks.

But remember that King David committed rape and murder as a mature believer, not some young buck feeling his oats.

We need to keep all this in perspective.

 

[reba]

No. But the Bible is clear about the lack of works involved in salvation. So we shouldn't make the mistake of thinking that repentance is turning from sin, since everyone continues to sin anyway.

Your answer is no yet it appears you find fault with my post shown in your reply to this quote.

do i repent YUP Luk_13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

FreeGrace said "Does this mean that your act of repentance saves you from perishing?"

I see a reference to John 10:28 as if it stands alone the same then can be said of Luke 13:3