When does a believer receive eternal life?

[Winter Tapioca]

Whatever you believe, regardless if it is true or not, will be who you are. When it is time for your soul to bare itself to Christ, what beliefs will you have that is true; for only the true is of any value.

My concern is that you do not think that you need to do anything else to be saved. But we still need to carry our cross daily. That is to repent our sins and ask for forgiveness, like Christ did, carrying his cross, for all sins on earth.

Luke 9:23-24
And he (Jesus) said to all, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it."

To lose one's own life (old man to sin) is to carry one's own cross daily. To carry the burdens of being wrong, humbled, repentance, making amends, doing right, etc.

Do you realize that as you judge freegrace there and predict what will happen when it comes time for her soul to bear itself to Christ, that you too shall have your time in that same way?

Yeshua bin Joseph, Yeshua, son of Joseph, Emmanuel, God with us, brought forth the truth of God over 2000 years ago. Between then and now we learn there are men's names for which their legacy attaches to denominational confines , like Methodists, Calvinists, and others, who thought themselves able to teach beyond what Jesus did. And lay upon the world for all time their mortal name as responsible.

Now, in denominational churches we have rules for belief. And banishment for non-compliance. When the truth of Christ was so simple in the beginning. And yet was obscured by the tiny paltry mortal egocentrism of man who thought, and still think, they can add to it. And in so doing, live by name only forever.
That too shall stand bare before God a nd answer for it.

 

[Hermit]

Do you realize that as you judge freegrace there and predict what will happen when it comes time for her soul to bear itself to Christ, that you too shall have your time in that same way?...

Yes.

...Yeshua bin Joseph, Yeshua, son of Joseph, Emmanuel, God with us, brought forth the truth of God over 2000 years ago. Between then and now we learn there are men's names for which their legacy attaches to denominational confines , like Methodists, Calvinists, and others, who thought themselves able to teach beyond what Jesus did. And lay upon the world for all time their mortal name as responsible.

Now, in denominational churches we have rules for belief. And banishment for non-compliance. When the truth of Christ was so simple in the beginning. And yet was obscured by the tiny paltry mortal egocentrism of man who thought, and still think, they can add to it. And in so doing, live by name only forever.
That too shall stand bare before God a nd answer for it.

Yes, I agree, that is why I let it go, so for each to believe what and how.
After a response, or two, to a post is not what the other wants to hear, I let it go.

 

[Hermit]

My concern is the very subtle, tricky lie of satan to get believers into a maintenance program for their salvation.......religion. It's a 'good' life, full of many 'good' works and even quitting many overt sins. But it is all for naught in the end because their MOTIVE was wrong. And Is a life of EVIL in Gods eyes. Looks like a good life to many of us, but God calls it filthy rags.

Heb 5:14~~New American Standard Bible
But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice(constant practice) have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

The good and evil in this verse is divine good(working through the Spirit) and evil( human good working through the flesh.)

We don't follow His plan for our lives to maintain salvation or do extra credit to get salvation........We follow His plan for our lives to glorify Him in His grace of saving a sinner like me.

It is easy for us to see that lying is not good and not lying is good. But it is very difficult for us to see if we are feeding the poor through our flesh(maintaining or gaining salvation through our 'good' works) or through the filling of the Spirit.

Try and see it like this:

I am told to no longer wash my hands before eating a meal. There is no need to do that because I am cleansed. Yet I know my hands are dirty by sin. It sounds as if someone is afraid to be exposed, vulnerable, humbled, and seek to be cleansed of sin.

I am saying what have you to lose by washing your hands before a meal. Yet you are saying I will surely die and go to hell if I cleaned my hands from any sin of the day. But I am not afraid to be exposed, vulnerable, humbled or seek to be cleansed of sin.

Who stands to inherit the earth, the proud and invincible, or the humble and meek.

 

[JLB]

There are only 3 possibilities regarding when a believer receives eternal life:
1. when they first believe
2. some time during their life on earth
3. at the end of their life, when they enter eternity

Some argue that 1 Peter 1:9 indicates that eternal life is received at the end of their life. "for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls."

If salvation and eternal life are synonymous, and most would agree that they are, then we can't really view anyone as saved during their life on earth, if "end of your faith" is synonymous with "end of your life". But it should be quite obvious that the 2 phrases are not equivalent at all.

So Arminians cannot view themselves as saved during their life. And one cannot lose what one does not possess. So the argument about losing salvation becomes irrelevant.

Are there any verses that indicate that eternal life is given during some point after initially believing in Christ? No, there are not. So we can eliminate #2 and #3 straight off.

So, that leaves #1, when they first believe.

So, what does the Bible say about it?

John 3:15 - that everyone who believes (present tense) may have (subjunctive) eternal life in him.

This verse indicates from the subjunctive that not everyone will believe, but of those who do, they will have eternal life in them.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (present tense) in him shall not perish but HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me HAS (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes (present tense) HAS (present tense) eternal life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given (aorist tense) us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe (present tense) in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

What is clear from these verses is that those who believe possess eternal life. 1 John 5:11 clearly indicates that eternal life is something already given, by the aorist tense, which is generally a past completed action.

Finally, Jesus tells us that it is He who gives eternal life: John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So, it's clear from Scripture that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one initially believes. Not some time after that.

Therefore, one is eternally saved WHEN one believes in Christ.

Believe is the condition for eternal life, which is found in Christ Jesus.

Those who believe [commit, trust and obey] are reconciled to God and are one with Christ, being joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

and again


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

The biblical definition of eternal life is knowing Him.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Those who claim to know Him, [have eternal life] yet disobey Him, the very definition of "believe", are said to be liars.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


His sheep who become lost, and wander from Him, have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7


One of His sheep can indeed become lost, in which they no longer are in a position of being "found" or saved.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.



JLB

 

[FreeGrace]

Free Grace, you and I see and read things differently. That is because we carry different beliefs which influence and filter what we see and read. That is how it is with everyone we meet. At this time, there is no point in me repeating what I have already explained because you are seeing it differently.

As an example of what I mean; Christ had the same problem even with his disciples because Christ was referencing life from a spiritual perspective and his disciples were still referencing life from a flesh perspective.

I am not saying that you are too, but we do see things differently based on our collective beliefs.

So, are both of us correct in our beliefs? Only one, or neither?

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm not explaining any scripture away, but trying to show it is a promise from God that all who will remain in Christ and Christ in them receive the promise of eternal life as long as they remain in Christ.

No, NONE of the verses say any of that. What they DO say is that whoever believes HAS eternal life. There was no "caveat" about having to "remain in Chrit and receiving the promise of eternal life "as long as they remain in Christ".

In fact, there is no such wording anywhere in Scripture.

It was a promise in the beginning of salvation and will be kept until the day Christ returns.

So then, the verses that plainly say that whoever believes HAS (as in currently possesses) eternal life don't really mean that???!!!

The verses are clear enough. They are not about a future "promise" of eternal life, but a direct statement of currently possessing eternal life WHEN one believes.

 

[FreeGrace]

Do you realize that as you judge freegrace there and predict what will happen when it comes time for her soul to bear itself to Christ, that you too shall have your time in that same way?

"her soul"???

Please look just above my handle and see the "male" sign, a circle with arrow pointing up.

 

[FreeGrace]

Believe is the condition for eternal life, which is found in Christ Jesus.

Those who believe [commit, trust and obey] are reconciled to God and are one with Christ, being joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

and again


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

The biblical definition of eternal life is knowing Him.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Those who claim to know Him, [have eternal life] yet disobey Him, the very definition of "believe", are said to be liars.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


His sheep who become lost, and wander from Him, have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7


One of His sheep can indeed become lost, in which they no longer are in a position of being "found" or saved.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.
JLB

Rather than more long posts, please just note your view of the 3 possibilities:
There are only 3 possibilities regarding when a believer receives eternal life:
1. when they first believe
2. some time during their life on earth
3. at the end of their life, when they enter eternity

I was unable to ascertain your view as to when one actually receives eternal life. So, please, just note whether you agree with #1, 2, or 3.

Thank you.

 

[JLB]

I'm not explaining any scripture away, but trying to show it is a promise from God that all who will remain in Christ and Christ in them receive the promise of eternal life as long as they remain in Christ. It was a promise in the beginning of salvation and will be kept until the day Christ returns. Many that claim Christ we also denounce Christ when the son of perdition (false prophet) comes and deceives the nations and many will take its mark believing the lying wonders and false teachings.

Amen remain in Christ.

Those who are "in Christ" are joined to the eternal life that is only found in Christ.

Those who are removed from Christ, are no longer joined with Him and are no longer one spirit with Him.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

Those who become disconnected from Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:8



JLB

 

[JLB]

Rather than more long posts, please just note your view of the 3 possibilities:
There are only 3 possibilities regarding when a believer receives eternal life:
1. when they first believe
2. some time during their life on earth
3. at the end of their life, when they enter eternity

I was unable to ascertain your view as to when one actually receives eternal life. So, please, just note whether you agree with #1, 2, or 3.

Thank you.

His sheep who become lost are no longer "found" or saved.


Case closed.



Believe is the condition for eternal life, which is found in Christ Jesus.

Those who believe [commit, trust and obey] are reconciled to God and are one with Christ, being joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

• But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him. 1 Corinthians 6:17

and again


21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23

• you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled

The biblical definition of eternal life is knowing Him.

• And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. John 17:3

Those who claim to know Him, [have eternal life] yet disobey Him, the very definition of "believe", are said to be liars.


He who says, “I know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 1 John 2:4


His sheep who become lost, and wander from Him, have returned to being sinners in need of repentance.

4 “What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? 5 And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. 6 And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, ‘Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ 7 I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance.
Luke 15:4-7


Lost = Sinner who is need of repentance; dead to God, in need of salvation, reconciliation to God.
Found = Someone is is reconciled to God; saved.

I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:7


One of His sheep can indeed become lost, in which they no longer are in a position of being "found" or saved.

19 Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, 20 let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20

The truth is clear, that a Christian can indeed become lost by wandering from the truth, and be considered as a sinner in need of repentance, or be lost; lose their soul in eternal death.

Thus the need to continue to believe/obey the call to follow Him so as not to become lost.


JLB

 

[Hermit]

So, are both of us correct in our beliefs? Only one, or neither?

You believe you are correct. I believe I am. Perhaps neither of us are correct.
All I know is that I love Christ, and my daily honest self-appraisal, call for any repentance, is an act of love for me.
To be able to be exposed, by honest, and ask forgiveness is all part of being unconditional in Christ for me.
To be asked not to do so is like telling me to stop loving Christ or God.
I rather die loving Christ by baring myself to Him than to take everything for granted and not bother with living the way of Truth and honesty.
Sorry, but I will not betray my love.

 

[Runner]

Those who believe [commit, trust and obey] are reconciled to God and are one with Christ, being joined to Him and are one spirit with Him.

You make the same point that I did - i.e., to "believe" in Jesus is not necessarily something that occurs at a fixed point in time, once and for all, case closed, as the OSAS folks believe.

Allow me to introduce the thread to Dr. David R. Dilling. Dr. Dilling has an A.B. degree in Bible, Philosophy, and Greek from Wheaton College; M.Div. and Th.M. degrees from Grace Theological Seminary; and an M.A. in History of Philosophy and a Ph.D. in Philosophy and Education from Purdue University. Dr. Dilling taught Philosophy and Greek at Grace College and Seminary, as well as Educational Philosophy at Purdue University, and served as Administrator of the Christian Academy in Indianapolis.

In short, Dr. Dilling is a Christian scholar and knows a bit about Greek. I quote from his book, The Gospel of John (2008), pp. 15-16. You will see that he says precisely what that dummy Runner, who knows nothing about Greek, suggested several posts ago:

The Gospel of John is preeminently a gospel of belief. He wrote, he said, "so that we might believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing we might have life in His name" (John 20:31). While this evangelistic purpose is so clearly stated, the book, nevertheless, was also written to, and received by, the already believing Church. Thus, at least part of the purpose must be seen as an occasion to confirm the believers in their faith. This is consistent with John's frequent use of the present tense of the verb "believe." In Greek, the significance of tense is much more related to kind of action than to time of action. This concept is somewhat difficult for English speakers since we virtually equate tense with time. The present tense in Greek, however, is much more suggestive of continuing action than the time at which such action takes place. For this reason, translators frequently use a progressive English form to translate a Greek present (for example, "he is running" rather than "he runs"). John's use of the present tense of "believe" here and throughout the Gospel indicates this dynamic aspect of faith. Belief, that is, is not something which is done "once for all" but is a continuing experience of life. For the Apostle, faith produces life - eternal life. But it is also true that such saving faith is persistent. It is to "the ones who continue to believe in his name" that he gives the authority to become the children of God. "The one who continues to live and continues to believe in Me," Jesus said, "will never die" (John 11:26).​

In short, "belief," like "running," is a continuing action. Contrary to what the OSAS folks are claiming I am suggesting, I am not suggesting that one "believes" in 2017, immediately obtains the "results" in the form of salvation, and then "loses" those results by failing to continue to believe until his death in 2067. Consistent with Dr. Dilling's explanation of the Greek, I am suggesting that one does not believe in the sense John is talking about unless one completes the action begun in 2017 by continuing to believe to the end.

As I have stated, I have no emotional or theological dog in this fight. I merely follow the evidence where it leads. What I see is:

• The OSAS folks rely almost exclusively on a strained interpretation of mostly Johannine verses that - at least if Dr. Dilling is correct - is simply wrong.
• The OSAS folks simply ignore a very large number of verses stating pretty clearly that continuing to believe is essential to salvation.
• The OSAS folks simply ignore that the early Christian fathers clearly taught that continuing to believe is essential to salvation.
• It appears to me that the OSAS approach is to force-fit the doctrine they want to believe into Scripture, rather than letting Scripture determine what the doctrine should be.

I was born again through an OSAS ministry (Campus Crusade). I have sympathy for the OSAS position. It makes the gospel the "extremely good news." It is very liberating. I don't think OSAS believers are destined for Hell merely because they hold the OSAS position. But intellectual honesty and the evidence compel me to conclude that their position is much, much weaker than OSNAS.

 

[JLB]

• The OSAS folks rely almost exclusively on a strained interpretation of mostly Johannine verses that - at least if Dr. Dilling is correct - is simply wrong.

• The OSAS folks simply ignore a very large number of verses stating pretty clearly that continuing to believe is essential to salvation.

• The OSAS folks simply ignore that the early Christian fathers clearly taught that continuing to believe is essential to salvation.

• It appears to me that the OSAS approach is to force-fit the doctrine they want to believe into Scripture, rather than letting Scripture determine what the doctrine should be.

 

[JLB]

You believe you are correct. I believe I am. Perhaps neither of us are correct.
All I know is that I love Christ, and my daily honest self-appraisal, call for any repentance, is an act of love for me.
To be able to be exposed, by honest, and ask forgiveness is all part of being unconditional in Christ for me.
To be asked not to do so is like telling me to stop loving Christ or God.
I rather die loving Christ by baring myself to Him than to take everything for granted and not bother with living the way of Truth and honesty.
Sorry, but I will not betray my love.

 

[JLB]

There are only 3 possibilities regarding when a believer receives eternal life:
1. when they first believe
2. some time during their life on earth
3. at the end of their life, when they enter eternity

Some argue that 1 Peter 1:9 indicates that eternal life is received at the end of their life. "for you are receiving the end result of your faith, the salvation of your souls."

If salvation and eternal life are synonymous, and most would agree that they are, then we can't really view anyone as saved during their life on earth, if "end of your faith" is synonymous with "end of your life". But it should be quite obvious that the 2 phrases are not equivalent at all.

So Arminians cannot view themselves as saved during their life. And one cannot lose what one does not possess. So the argument about losing salvation becomes irrelevant.

Are there any verses that indicate that eternal life is given during some point after initially believing in Christ? No, there are not. So we can eliminate #2 and #3 straight off.

So, that leaves #1, when they first believe.

So, what does the Bible say about it?

John 3:15 - that everyone who believes (present tense) may have (subjunctive) eternal life in him.

This verse indicates from the subjunctive that not everyone will believe, but of those who do, they will have eternal life in them.

John 3:16 - For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes (present tense) in him shall not perish but HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

John 5:24 - “Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes (present tense) him who sent me HAS (present tense) eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life.

John 6:47 - Very truly I tell you, the one who believes (present tense) HAS (present tense) eternal life.

1 John 5:11 - And this is the testimony: God has given (aorist tense) us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

1 John 5:13 - I write these things to you who believe (present tense) in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you HAVE (present tense) eternal life.

What is clear from these verses is that those who believe possess eternal life. 1 John 5:11 clearly indicates that eternal life is something already given, by the aorist tense, which is generally a past completed action.

Finally, Jesus tells us that it is He who gives eternal life: John 10:28 - I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand.

So, it's clear from Scripture that the gift of eternal life is given WHEN one initially believes. Not some time after that.

Therefore, one is eternally saved WHEN one believes in Christ.

Those who believe for a while then no longer believe are no longer saved.

12 Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.13 But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. Luke 8:12-13

• lest they should believe and be saved.

Believe = Saved

• who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.

Believe for a while = Saved for a while.

Those who have kept the faith will receive eternal life at the resurrection on the Day of Judgement.

God, who “will render to each one according to his deeds”:
eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;
but to those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness—indignation and wrath, Romans 2:6-8

Each one of us will be Judged according to our deeds.

• eternal life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality;

JLB

 

[chessman]

But intellectual honesty and the evidence compel me to conclude that their position is much, much weaker than OSNAS.

What do you think Dr. Dilling meant by the following statement?

But it is also true that such saving faith is persistent.

You realize that John wrote about eternal life being received/given in the aorist tense, not just present tense, right?

 

[Edward]

Tell me if this is correct...

I was saved, I am being saved, I will be saved...

 

[FreeGrace]

Amen remain in Christ.

This isn't up to us. It is God who sealed those having believed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

And anyone having believed and been sealed IN HIM has the Holy Spirit as a deposit which GUARANTEES our inheritance as God's possession. Eph 1:14

Therefore, no one can either remove themselves from union with Christ or be removed from union with Christ.

The verse about being severed or alienated from Christ in Gal refers to fellowship. Fellowship is severed when the believer grieves (Eph 5:18) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.

The believer has nothing to do with being sealed. It's done TO them. We don't participate. We only receive the Spirit.

Those who are removed from Christ, are no longer joined with Him and are no longer one spirit with Him.

The Holy Spirit is placed in the believer as a GUARANTEE of their inheritance as God's possession. Eph 1:14

Therefore, the believer cannot e removed from Christ.

Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:2

This agricultural metaphor has nothing to do with being removed from being in union with Christ.

In fact, when Jesus used this metaphor, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit hadn't even occurred yet. Jesus said He was coming after Jesus left earth.

Those who become disconnected from Him, are cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:8

John 15 is about service, not salvation.
Here's some context proving this:
4 Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
5 “I am the vine; you are the branches. If you remain in me and I in you, you will bear much fruit; apart from me you can do nothing.
6 If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
7If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you.
8 This is to my Father’s glory, that you bear much fruit, showing yourselves to be my disciples.

So, what's Jesus' point here? That His disciples should bear much fruit. This is service, not salvation.

Jesus had already established the fact that the 11 disciples were saved:
In John 10:
10 Jesus answered, “Those who have had a bath need only to wash their feet; their whole body is clean. And you are clean, though not every one of you.”
11 For he knew who was going to betray him, and that was why he said not every one was clean.

Here, Jesus clarifies that Judas was not saved. But the rest were.

Then, in v.30, Judas left the supper: "As soon as Judas had taken the bread, he went out. And it was night."

So everything written after Jn 13:30 was to the 11 remaining disciples. So ch 15 isn't about how to stay saved, but how to bear fruit.

We must remain in fellowship with Christ. Otherwise, we are all alone and unable to bear fruit.

 

[JLB]

This isn't up to us. It is God who sealed those having believed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

You are misinterpreting what seal means.

Those who believe have the King's seal of approval, the Holy Spirit.

Those who believe for a while then no longer believe are no longer believers.

Very simple.


JLB

 

[JLB]

This agricultural metaphor has nothing to do with being removed from being in union with Christ.

Being disconnected from Him results in being cast into the fire and burned.

If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:6


JLB