When does a believer receive eternal life?

[for_his_glory]

This isn't up to us. It is God who sealed those having believed IN HIM with the Holy Spirit. Eph 1:13

And anyone having believed and been sealed IN HIM has the Holy Spirit as a deposit which GUARANTEES our inheritance as God's possession. Eph 1:14

Therefore, no one can either remove themselves from union with Christ or be removed from union with Christ.

The verse about being severed or alienated from Christ in Gal refers to fellowship. Fellowship is severed when the believer grieves (Eph 5:18) or quenches (1 Thess 5:19) the Holy Spirit.

The believer has nothing to do with being sealed. It's done TO them. We don't participate. We only receive the Spirit.


The Holy Spirit is placed in the believer as a GUARANTEE of their inheritance as God's possession. Eph 1:14

Therefore, the believer cannot e removed from Christ.


This agricultural metaphor has nothing to do with being removed from being in union with Christ.

In fact, when Jesus used this metaphor, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit hadn't even occurred yet. Jesus said He was coming after Jesus left earth.

If we lose faith and never gain it back like many have who once had it this grieves the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 4:30, and quenches the Holy Spirit in us, 1 Thessalonians 5:19 because it is the power of God that keeps us through faith. We can allow the seal of the Holy Spirit put on us to be broken if we lose faith and turn back to this evil world.

2 Peter 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; 6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; 7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. 8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

 

[chessman]

Ephesians 4:29-32 No rotten word must proceed from your mouth, but only something good for the building up of the need, in order that it may give grace to those who hear, and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. All bitterness, and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech, must be removed from you, together with all wickedness. Become kind toward one another, compassionate, forgiving one another, just as also God in Christ has forgiven you.
​

If a believer in Christ can lose eternal life by uttering rotten/bitter words even though they believe in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, it seems contradictory to the way Christ has forgiven all us sinners while still in our trespasses and sin.

Luckily for all believers who still need some work on our graceful speech to others, Paul doesn't say grieving the Holy Spirit defeats His work and Christ's forgiveness.

 

[FreeGrace]

John 3:18 The one who believes in him is not judged, but the one who does not believe has already been judged, because he has not believed in the name of the one and only Son of God.

At the judgment, there will be two kinds of people (not three); one kind that believes in Him and one kind that has not believed in Him. Not a third kind that believed in Him for a while.

This is an excellent point, and John 3:18 needs to be emphasized every time someone tries to create 3 kinds of people at the judgment.

Those who believe in Christ, and those who NEVER BELIEVED in Christ. No 3rd option, as some would like to have it.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Ephesians 4:29-32 No rotten word must proceed from your mouth, but only something good for the building up of the need, in order that it may give grace to those who hear, and do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. All bitterness, and rage, and wrath, and clamor, and abusive speech, must be removed from you, together with all wickedness. Become kind toward one another, compassionate, forgiving one another, just as also God in Christ has forgiven you.
​

If a believer in Christ can lose eternal life by uttering rotten/bitter words even though they believe in Christ for the forgiveness of their sins, it seems contradictory to the way Christ has forgiven all us sinners while still in our trespasses and sin.

Luckily for all believers who still need some work on our graceful speech to others, Paul doesn't say grieving the Holy Spirit defeats His work and Christ's forgiveness.

Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


If a believer in Christ can lose their eternal salvation by uttering rotten words, imagine the fate of those who use rotten words on Christian discussion boards.
It would mean that while it is God's grace that saves us, not any work of our own, that we can say something that renounces what Jesus Christ died for.
The contradiction of course is in that false argument that we can do something to lose our salvation is, while we cannot work to be saved, God wasted his time calling his elect to him knowing those chosen could work to revoke his will, and His Word, that is the saving grace of his only begotten Sonship. Jesus.

Is anyone here fluent in Latin? If yes, would someone kindly translate this? "Symbolum Niceæum Pristinum sans Filioque".

This may be of help in this discussion. I think it may assist in understanding the counter argument that is often made in the world concerning that which counters actual truth of Jesus Christ's sacrifice and Gospel. Maybe it sounds familiar to those who have visited forums before.

"The Orthodox Church claims to be the one true church of Christ, and seeks to trace its origin back to the original apostles through an unbroken chain of apostolic succession. Orthodox thinkers debate the spiritual status of Roman Catholics and Protestants, and a few still consider them heretics. Like Catholics and Protestants, however, Orthodox believers affirm the Trinity, the Bible as the Word of God, Jesus as God the Son, and many other biblical doctrines. However, in doctrine, they have much more in common with Roman Catholics than they do with Protestant Christians.

Sadly, the doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church. Rather, Orthodoxy emphasizes theosis (literally, “divinization”), the gradual process by which Christians become more and more like Christ. What many in the Orthodox tradition fail to understand is that “divinization” is the progressive result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation itself. Other Orthodox distinctives that are in conflict with the Bible include:

The equal authority of church tradition and Scripture
Discouragement of individuals interpreting the Bible apart from tradition
The perpetual virginity of Mary
Prayer for the dead
Baptism of infants without reference to individual responsibility and faith
The possibility of receiving salvation after death
The possibility of losing salvation......"

Sourced from,
What is the Eastern Orthodox Church and what are the beliefs of Orthodox Christians?

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"It's given WHEN one believes. Unless there is evidence that eternal life is given some specific time AFTER one initially believes.

But John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13 say those who believe HAVE, as in possess, eternal life.

But you've failed to provide an answer to your view of the 3 possibilities, I don't expect there will be any evidence provided in regard to this question of when one actually receives eternal life.

I consider them to be God's possession, from Eph 1:13-14, since they have been sealed in Christ by the indwelling Holy Spirit from HAVING BELIEVED, and the Holy Spirit GUARANTEES their inheritance for the day of redemption.

And John 10:28 refutes your claim about those who cease to believe still being saved. Jesus said those He gives eternal life shall never perish. That's good enough for me."

I don't wish to interfere but feel the need to comment; Matthew 22:1-14 is the Parable of the Wedding Feast. In the feast we see the Bride and the Groom. But that is not a full room, no matter where the cut-off point is, there will be many Guests at the Banquet.

Responding to any post is not an interference. Not sure your point here about "not a full room".

Now we know by reasoning, using all of scripture and letting it's light shine on these fourteen verses, that none will enter into Heaven that will, after the joining of the Bride to the Groom, be expelled. I rather believe Jesus and his bride will rule the Earth for a thousand years before the Final Resurrection, the Resurrection unto Death, the resurrection of the Dead in Christ to stand the Great White Throne Judgment.

Just something to consider, I feel it reflects on where this discussion leads to.

With further explanation, I may be able to grasp where your point may lead. Thanks.

 

[FreeGrace]

Apologies, his soul. I don't see the avatars of people here and there's no gender column in the profile block beside posts.

When there is no avatar, there is either the sign for male, or for female.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

If we lose faith and never gain it back ......

For those types God foresaw them as well. And delivered comfort to those in Holiness who are grieved by the loss of what they thought were sisters and brothers in the Word.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

Thank God brother Paul delivered God given assurance for those in His Sonship. Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

When there is no avatar, there is either the sign for male, or for female.

Not on my side of the page.

 

[FreeGrace]

I said this:
"Salvation involves 3 tenses, past, present, and future.

Past tense Salvation: I have been saved from the penalty of sin. Justification
Present tense Salvation: I am being saved from the power of sin. Sanctification
Future tense Salvation: I will be saved from the presence of sin. Glorification"

That's what I thought after I thought about this. So all three in the original post are true.

Actually, what I said above has NO relevance to the OP. Different subjects. Our salvation involves justification, sanctification and glorification, none of which relate to WHEN one receives the gift of eternal life.

And none of these tenses even speaks to WHEN one receives the gift of eternal life.

From John 3:15,16, 5:24, 6:47 and 1 John 5:13, eternal life is a present possession WHEN one believes.

There are no verses that teach that eternal life are given at any specific point AFTER one initially believes. So we know it's WHEN one believes.

 

[FreeGrace]

29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or lands, for My name’s sake, shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life. Matthew 19:29

• shall receive a hundredfold, and inherit eternal life.

Have you left your house, or immediate family or wife and kids, or land for Christ's sake?

At what point does your theology teach that a person inherits eternal life.

• At the moment they believe?
• Some point in their life?
• At the resurrection of life?

JLB

My theology is what Jesus taught about WHEN possesses eternal life. It's WHEN one believes in Christ. Jesus taught this in John 3:15,16, 5:24 and 6:47. And John the apostle taught it in 1 John 5:13.

Whoever believes HAS eternal life. That means they possess it. That means it was given to them. John 10:28 informs us that it is Jesus Christ Himself who gives eternal life.

And He then said of those He gives eternal life, that they shall never perish.

I will never reject what Jesus taught about eternal security.

Therefore, I will always reject the opposition to eternal security.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Have you left your house, or immediate family or wife and kids, or land for Christ's sake?


My theology is what Jesus taught about WHEN possesses eternal life. It's WHEN one believes in Christ. Jesus taught this in John 3:15,16, 5:24 and 6:47. And John the apostle taught it in 1 John 5:13.

Whoever believes HAS eternal life. That means they possess it. That means it was given to them. John 10:28 informs us that it is Jesus Christ Himself who gives eternal life.

And He then said of those He gives eternal life, that they shall never perish.

I will never reject what Jesus taught about eternal security.

Therefore, I will always reject the opposition to eternal security.

To the bold part especially, AMEN!
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

 

[for_his_glory]

For those types God foresaw them as well. And delivered comfort to those in Holiness who are grieved by the loss of what they thought were sisters and brothers in the Word.
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us." 1 John 2:19

Thank God brother Paul delivered God given assurance for those in His Sonship. Romans 8:38-39
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I'm showing that many who at first confessed Christ and had such passion for Him have also lost their faith along the way which has grieved the Holy Spirit and have lost the sealing of the Holy Spirit as they have turned back to the world. I have personally known a few who stood for Christ, but something within their life caused much devastation to them and have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:30-34

 

[FreeGrace]

If we lose faith and never gain it back like many have who once had it this grieves the Holy Spirit, Ephesians 4:30, and quenches the Holy Spirit in us, 1 Thessalonians 5:19 because it is the power of God that keeps us through faith. We can allow the seal of the Holy Spirit put on us to be broken if we lose faith and turn back to this evil world.

I agreed with all that was said up until the thing about "allowing the seal of the Holy Spirit to be broken". There are no such verses that teach that. In fact, Eph 1:13-14 is clear about the sealing with the Spirit being a GUARANTEE of our inheritance for the day of redemption as God's possession. So, there it is. Clear as day.

Hebrews 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

The bottom line for me is what Jesus promised to those He gives eternal life; they shall never perish. John 10:28

Please note what is required of those He gives eternal life: nothing. The very fact that He gives eternal life to someone guarantees that they shall never perish.

I don't believe that Jesus was either kidding or lying. I trust completely in what He said.

Once given eternal life, always saved. Which obviously bothers a lot of people.

OGELAS is biblical doctrine. For some strange reason, I was not able to underline the "g" in "given".

 

[FreeGrace]

To the bold part especially, AMEN!
John 10:27-29 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand.
John 6:37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

Amen!!

 

[FreeGrace]

I'm showing that many who at first confessed Christ and had such passion for Him have also lost their faith along the way which has grieved the Holy Spirit and have lost the sealing of the Holy Spirit as they have turned back to the world.

Please share the verse that equates grieving the Spirit with losing the sealing of the Spirit. I've read through the NT hundreds of times and have never come across such a verse.

I have personally known a few who stood for Christ, but something within their life caused much devastation to them and have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:30-34

Unless they lived during the time of Christ and witnessed His miracles but attributed them to the devil, no one can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

I'm showing that many who at first confessed Christ and had such passion for Him have also lost their faith along the way which has grieved the Holy Spirit and have lost the sealing of the Holy Spirit as they have turned back to the world. I have personally known a few who stood for Christ, but something within their life caused much devastation to them and have blasphemed against the Holy Spirit, Matthew 12:30-34

Those who are in Christ are never cast out. They can think themselves leaving their faith, but God the Father still knows their name. Man is not stronger in his will than is the Father in his own. When God knows his own and calls them to himself, no one can take us from his grace. Jesus said he will never cast us out. We can imagine we cast ourselves away, but God will never let us go.

 

[JLB]

That's not at all what they said. OSAS is not a myth. Jesus died to make it a reality.

Jesus Christ died so you and I could be reconciled to God.

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


Look at the condition.

• if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel...

JLB

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Please share the verse that equates grieving the Spirit with losing the sealing of the Spirit. I've read through the NT hundreds of times and have never come across such a verse.


Unless they lived during the time of Christ and witnessed His miracles but attributed them to the devil, no one can blaspheme the Holy Spirit.

In lieu of the "like" option here,

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Jesus Christ died so you and I could be reconciled to God.

And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Colossians 1:21-23


Look at the condition.

• if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel...

JLB

Jesus didn't die to deliver conditional salvation to the world. It is false to argue he did.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Question JLB. Do you accept that believers are born again by the Holy Spirit of God? That they are indwelt, baptized into the body of Christ, and are eternally sealed by the Holy Spirit, and are unable to be separated from the love of Jesus Christ?