When is the Sabbath?

[donadams]

Forbidden? Can you quote the Scripture that tells us in your own words that God or Jesus forbids us to follow the law?

Christ fulfilled the law all Jewish practices are abrogated, they pointed to the coming of Christ so to continue in them would in effect be denying Christ!

And reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant Matt 5:18 heb 9:19 Jn 1:29 1 cor 5:7-8

 

[donadams]

Forbidden? Can you quote the Scripture that tells us in your own words that God or Jesus forbids us to follow the law?

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic Law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors.”


Pope Benedict XIV in Ex Quo:

"The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law *were abrogated* by the coming of Christ and that they can no longer be observed without sin after the promulgation of the Gospel. "

Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel [30] - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "*was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.*" [35]

30. *On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death*, [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head of His Church. "

 

[WalterandDebbie]

The law was fulfilled by Christ and all Jewish practices are abrogated for the new covenant practices and feasts

Christ said He did not come to destroy the law but to fulfill it, and Paul said God forbid, but we establish the law, Great peace have they which love thy law: And nothing shall offend them.

 

[LeviR]

Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel [30] - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "*was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.*" [35]

30. *On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death*, [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head of His Church. "

That’s actually very good. He seems to recognize that the Redeemer died. That would be the same Redeemer who was then raised from the dead. He went from being dead to being alive.
And that by his death and resurrection brought into force the New Covenant which is the only covenant that has the power to save anyone. Which has the power to redeem others from being dead in the grave as he was. Redeemed from death and the grave by resurrection from the dead.
A transfer from the law to the gospel. From the law that only the Jews were under, to the gospel by which all might be saved.
He becomes the only Head of the Church. The Chief-Born from the dead, and Lord of all. His God being excluded.

 

[donadams]

That’s actually very good. He seems to recognize that the Redeemer died. That would be the same Redeemer who was then raised from the dead. He went from being dead to being alive.
And that by his death and resurrection brought into force the New Covenant which is the only covenant that has the power to save anyone. Which has the power to redeem others from being dead in the grave as he was. Redeemed from death and the grave by resurrection from the dead.
A transfer from the law to the gospel. From the law that only the Jews were under, to the gospel by which all might be saved.
He becomes the only Head of the Church. The Chief-Born from the dead, and Lord of all. His God being excluded.

What is the initiation into this new covenant

 

[LeviR]

What is the initiation into this new covenant

Immersion in water

 

[WalterandDebbie]

Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel [30] - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "*was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.*" [35]

30. *On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death*, [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head of His Church. "

That’s actually very good. He seems to recognize that the Redeemer died. That would be the same Redeemer who was then raised from the dead. He went from being dead to being alive.
And that by his death and resurrection brought into force the New Covenant which is the only covenant that has the power to save anyone. Which has the power to redeem others from being dead in the grave as he was. Redeemed from death and the grave by resurrection from the dead.
A transfer from the law to the gospel. From the law that only the Jews were under, to the gospel by which all might be saved.
He becomes the only Head of the Church. The Chief-Born from the dead, and Lord of all. His God being excluded.

Wrong Forum Catholicism and Calvinism

 

[donadams]

Immersion in water

Where does scripture say immersion is required?

 

[LeviR]

Where does scripture say immersion is required?

Where the Pharisees who refused to be baptized are said to have rejected the will of God for themselves.
Not good to reject the will of God.

 

[donadams]

Where the Pharisees who refused to be baptized are said to have rejected the will of God for themselves.
Not good to reject the will of God.

scripture sats baptism is required never says immersion is required

 

[LeviR]

scripture sats baptism is required never says immersion is required

Baptism means immersion.

 

[LeviR]

scripture sats baptism is required never says immersion is required

Which John’s baptism, they went down into the water and came up out of it again. It symbolizes death, burial and resurrection.
When a person dies, he is put into the grave. The grave is not put on him.

 

[donadams]

Baptism means immersion.

Proper intention of valid baptism:

The initiation into the new covenant of grace unto the salvation of souls, “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”. Nicene creed

Brought to life. Jn 14:6 eph 2:1 quickened.

Believers baptism is not valid and not found in scripture.
Adult only baptism is not found in scripture.

Proper form of valid baptism:

Valid Christian baptism requires flowing water over the forehead three times.

With the words:

I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit! Matt 28:19

Immersion, pouring, or sprinkling 3 time with pure water are the valid matter of baptism.

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; (baptism)

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Examples
Sprinkle, sprinkled, sprinkling:

Blood:
Ex 24:6
Ex 24:8
Ex 29:16
Lev 1:5
2 kings 16:13
2 chron 29:22
1 pet 1:2

Water:
Num 8:7
Num 19:18

Sprinkle: refers to baptismal regeneration!
Isa 52:15
Ez 36:25
Heb 10:22

Immersion is not found in scripture!

 

[donadams]

Most people who oppose catholic dogma actually believe about 90%


Dogma / De Fide or “thee faith” (found 31 times in the New Testament) eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

Truths revealed by Christ, taught by His apostolic church! (Matt 28:19)
(The rule of faith)

The faith that binds all Christians! Matt 16:18-19 & 18:18

Christ and His church are one and teach one truth faith! Acts 9:4 eph 5:32 / Jn 8:12 - Matt 5:14
Matt 17:5 - acts 3:22 Matt 18:18
Truth: Jn 14:6 - 1 Tim 3:15


174. Baptism is a true Sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
175. The materia remota of the Sacrament of Baptism is true and natural water.
176. Baptism confers the grace of justification.
177. Baptism effects the remission of all punishments of sin, both the eternal and the temporal.
178. Even if it be unworthily received, valid Baptism imprints on the soul of the recipient an
indelible spiritual mark, the Baptismal Character, and for this reason, the Sacrament cannot
be repeated.
179. Baptism by water (Baptismus fluminis) is, since the promulgation of the Gospel, necessary
for all men without exception, for salvation.
180. Baptism can be validly administered by anyone.
181. Baptism can be received by any person in the wayfaring state who is not already baptised.
182. The Baptism of young children is valid and licit.

 

[LeviR]

Proper intention of valid baptism:

The initiation into the new covenant of grace unto the salvation of souls, “one baptism for the forgiveness of sins”. Nicene creed

Brought to life. Jn 14:6 eph 2:1 quickened.

Believers baptism is not valid and not found in scripture.
Adult only baptism is not found in scripture.

Proper form of valid baptism:

Valid Christian baptism requires flowing water over the forehead three times.

With the words:

I baptize you in the name of the father and of the son and of the Holy Spirit! Matt 28:19

Immersion, pouring, or sprinkling 3 time with pure water are the valid matter of baptism.

Ez 36:25 I will sprinkle you with clean water and you shall be made white as snow.

Isa 52:15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; (baptism)

1 pet 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. (Baptism)

Heb 10:22
Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Examples
Sprinkle, sprinkled, sprinkling:

Blood:
Ex 24:6
Ex 24:8
Ex 29:16
Lev 1:5
2 kings 16:13
2 chron 29:22
1 pet 1:2

Water:
Num 8:7
Num 19:18

Sprinkle: refers to baptismal regeneration!
Isa 52:15
Ez 36:25
Heb 10:22

Immersion is not found in scripture!

The Greek word transliterated as Baptize mean to immerse or dip in water. It does not mean sprinkle with water.
I am are talking about the word itself and what it means.

 

[Gary K]

How Do we get this authority to decide for ourselves?

Are we not supposed to be subject to Christ?

We must be taught!

Christians must be taught or instructed, according to the sense which the perpetual consent of the Catholic Church hath held and expressed, as commanded by Christ! Matt 28:19-20 acts 1:2

Jesus Christ founded the new covenant church to teach and sanctify (baptize) all men unto eternal salvation! (Matt 28:19)

The Holy Spirit leads the apostles into all truth (Jn 16:13) they must teach us! (Matt 28:19)

Lk 1:4
Matt 5:14
Matt 6:33
Matt 28:19
Lk 10:16
Jn 20:21
Acts 16:17
Acts 8:31
Titus 1:9
Titus 2:12
Phil 4:9
Colossians 2:7
Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught…

No Christian has the authority to read scripture for yourself and decide your own doctrines or beliefs! “One faith” Eph 4:5 Thee faith once handed to the saints” Jude 1:3

Those who submit to the apostolic church know the truth! Those who reject The apostolic church are in error!

1 John 4:6
We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

Members of the communion of saints must submit to the teaching of the apostles: “the light (truth) of the world” and the pillar of truth! Matt 5:14 1 Tim 3:15

Christ is king and demands obedience in His kingdom, His truth and to His authorized ministers!

Christians must be taught!

Are you saying you're the one to teach me? Sorry, I reject Catholicism from the ground up.

 

[LeviR]

Are you saying you're the one to teach me? Sorry, I reject Catholicism from the ground up.

They got it all wrong from the beginning to the end.

 

[LeviR]

When you get it wrong from the start, everything that piles up from there is also wrong.
It’s like when you lie, you need to create more lies to cover the first lie.

 

[donadams]

Are you saying you're the one to teach me? Sorry, I reject Catholicism from the ground up.

Why reject christ this way?

 

[Humblepie]

Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, Cantate Domino, 1441: “The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and teaches that the matter pertaining to the law of the Old Testament, of the Mosaic Law, which are divided into ceremonies, sacred rites, sacrifices, and sacraments, because they were established to signify something in the future, although they were suited to divine worship at that time, after our Lord’s coming had been signified by them, ceased, and the sacraments of the New Testament began; and that whoever, even after the passion, placed hope in these matters of the law and submitted himself to them as necessary for salvation, as if faith in Christ could not save without them, sinned mortally. Yet it does not deny that after the passion of Christ up to the promulgation of the Gospel they could have been observed until they were believed to be in no way necessary for salvation; but after the promulgation of the Gospel it asserts that they cannot be observed without the loss of eternal salvation. All, therefore, who after that time (the promulgation of the Gospel) observe circumcision and the Sabbath and the other requirements of the law, it declares alien to the Christian faith and not in the least fit to participate in eternal salvation, unless someday they recover from these errors.”


Pope Benedict XIV in Ex Quo:

"The first consideration is that the ceremonies of the Mosaic Law *were abrogated* by the coming of Christ and that they can no longer be observed without sin after the promulgation of the Gospel. "

Pope Pius XII in Mystici Corporis:

"29. And first of all, by the death of our Redeemer, the New Testament took the place of the Old Law which had been abolished; then the Law of Christ together with its mysteries, enactments, institutions, and sacred rites was ratified for the whole world in the blood of Jesus Christ. For, while our Divine Savior was preaching in a restricted area - He was not sent but to the sheep that were lost of the House of Israel [30] - the Law and the Gospel were together in force; [31] but on the gibbet of His death Jesus made void the Law with its decrees [32] fastened the handwriting of the Old Testament to the Cross, [33] establishing the New Testament in His blood shed for the whole human race.[34] "To such an extent, then," says St. Leo the Great, speaking of the Cross of our Lord, "*was there effected a transfer from the Law to the Gospel, from the Synagogue to the Church, from the many sacrifices to one Victim, that, as Our Lord expired, that mystical veil which shut off the innermost part of the temple and its sacred secret was rent violently from top to bottom.*" [35]

30. *On the Cross then the Old Law died, soon to be buried and to be a bearer of death*, [36] in order to give way to the New Testament of which Christ had chosen the Apostles as qualified ministers; [37] and although He had been constituted the Head of the whole human family in the womb of the Blessed Virgin, it is by the power of the Cross that our Savior exercises fully the office itself of Head of His Church. "

I asked you to quote the BIBLE to show me where it is forbidden, and you quoted commandments of MEN.

Try quoting scripture this time.