When you lose all faith

[Ace1234]

I never meant to lose all faith. I was a dedicated christian most of my life, though my faith evolved over the years. I attended bible college, did missions, taught Sunday School during my 20's to about 31. I stopped all of that when I stopped being or say I started having heavy conflicts with my very fundamental church. I left, but didn't quit on the faith, in fact I spent much time over the next 15 years in deep study, trying to figure out what true faith was. Still, much of my life was just being me, hard worker and family man. My faith was there during these years with moments of deep search.

About 8 years ago my wife was in a car wreck that left her somewhat disabled, two years after that I was stricken with a nerve disease. I was told it would progress and eventually get bad, the last two years it's become brutal. The illness I have is considered the most painful on the "medical pain scale".

Lost jobs, med insurance, then Doctors, meds, etc.. Our family was upper middle class. To get help medicare requires you basically go into poverty, which took us about two years after savings.... You can fill in the pieces, lot's of heartbreak. This week my wife and son had to move out to go live with her sister and I live in a foreclosed home waiting for my notice to get out. I barely get by, have gone hungry. What lil I make is selling 25 years of stuff on Ebay.

I don't want to turn this into a sob story. I'm sure like most when I was hit with my nerve disease I turned to God, tried to be a perfect christian in hopes God would help with just life. That lasted about a year when I realised I was just trying to trade goodness for help, simply wanting to use God when things were bad, but we know that is common. I went searching again trying to figure out God and faith. Many issues have always bothered me about God, such as suffering, pain, eternal torture...why is this world filled with so much cruelty. God could stop it, but for most it's just silence. Even long ago in missions, tribes that converted to christianity I saw kids suffer terribly, hunger, no shelter, meds,..nothing. I was always taught God would supply basic needs, but saw these loving christians suffer and die terribly from lack of needs. I have never been able to reconcile this.

Over the last five years I've searched, studied, prayed, trying to understand. I thought somehow things for my family would work out, but they didn't. I never blamed God, I know many have it worse, but I wanted to make sense of it...I cant. I think I became very bitter, but my search ended up leaving me almost an atheist. I honestly don't know what I believe. Not that I'm a Mother Teresa, but having read her works she almost declared outright athiesm before she died. I guess when you hold and watch 1000's of kids die in your arms that can happen.
I am much like her in that sense.

I am and have been very suicidal. I think last night was close. The illness is brutal and I barely got by when I had med insurance and I was on the strongest narcotics. Understand I don't want to die, I just can't live. As bad as the pain is I think the emotional turmoil is worse, losing my family, utter poverty. Even now I have no power and plugged into the neighbors shed with dropcords all over the house and cook on a wood stove, right in the middle of a nice neighborhood and hardly anyone has a clue.

I wish I could grasp some faith, but it ever eludes me. Why is God so silent during suffering? Sure, I know the many and common responses, doctrinal arguments, etc....it still doesn't add up.

I would just like a lil faith. Even though I'm rather hard now to most things, I would like to die with faith. I question if I die not believing how would God see me if he exists, the person I once was or the person I am now.

 

[Mike]

Wow, brother. I don't know what to say about this. You've been (and continue to go) through so much. I've never heard that Mother Theresa came to question her faith. I'd have to read up on that myself.

I'm very sorry to hear about what you face. I have a friend who has MS. He's no longer employable, and he carries no health insurance. He can't get into a group plan, and getting it himself would mean paying premiums he could never afford. The irony is that his faith is stronger now more than ever. He's an inspiration to me in that regard. I can't necessarily blame you for questioning everything, having never been there myself. But I pray you get to a similar place in your walk, and let Him carry you.

I know you said you didn't intend this to be a "sob story", but my heart breaks for you. Somehow, some way He's with you each day. I believe that.

 

[Lewis]

Yes you are suffering, and this is also the first time that I have heard that about mother Theresa. I was like 6 feet or so away from her the last time that she was in the USA, she looked right into my eyes, and I saw and felt nothing but love from this women that I loved. But anyway yes you are suffering and I don't have the answer. And many times when someone is suffering like you are it is hard to get them to look to God. Because many times God won't move when you want Him to.
And to be honest sometimes God will not do anything to help you. And that is just being plain honest. But if He decides to move for you He will. I'll tell you something though, at this point God is all that you have.

 

[WIP]

A couple years ago I was at a revival and got the opportunity to see a fellow display the joy and love of Christ like I'd never seen it before. He was extremely inspirational. What he shared in his testimony was amazing. He had an exciting and wonderful delivery and you couldn't help but feel inspired just to hear his message.

One thing that made his message even more motivating and encouraging was to see him deliver it in person. The reason is because he had no arms and no legs! He had enough stubs to walk....sort of....and no arms or hands at all. I couldn't even begin to imagine how difficult his life must be but he had such zeal for the Lord it was awesome to see.

Is God here for our purpose or are we here for His? Even Jesus asked God to be released from his torment and fate but he still fulfilled God's purpose. You are not alone and are in great company.

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven:

I cannot say I understand what you're going through but I do understand that it must be difficult but so long as you are focusing on your own pain and suffering you are taking your focus away from God. Your own pain and suffering may be your idol.

 

[Timf]

I would just like a lil faith. Even though I'm rather hard now to most things, I would like to die with faith. I question if I die not believing how would God see me if he exists, the person I once was or the person I am now.

Isaiah 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

Sometimes the Lord can pick a particularly difficult path for us. Often in this "furnace of affliction, we get broken. Often it is our attachment to church or worldly systems that get broken such that we finally become "free agents". It is from such freedom that we can truly come to Christ and trust in Him.

There is a book called "The Practice of the Presence of God" by Brother Lawrence. The copyright expired hundreds of years ago so you should be able to find it free on the web. This book is not a source of razor sharp doctrine, but an example of a heartfelt connection to God.

At the end of your life you will get to stand in front of your Savior and say, "I finally got your message". "It is not what we can get (secularism), it is not what we do (all other religions), it is what you have already done for us (paid for our sins)".

It is coming to Jesus in this simple truth that opens the door to humility and gratitude that is the conduit to receive His grace. (James 4)

Here is something I wrote that may help

God as a Blacksmith

A man once told his friend, "I don't feel as if God keeps His promises."

"Why do you say that?" his friend asked.

"I have been feeling pretty bad lately. Things haven't been going well. But the Bible says, And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose."

The friend answered, "It doesn't say that all things work together for us to "feel" good. It helps to also consider the following verse, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren."

The friend continued, "If you think of God as a blacksmith and that He picks us up with His tongs, it is pretty easy to imagine Him looking at each of us and declaring that we don't look anything like His Son. Then He might plunge us into the furnace fire and pump the bellows until we have finally become workable. He would then take us to the anvil and after repeated pounding with a heavy hammer, start the process all over again."

The man said, I think I want to change from thinking of God as a blacksmith to God as a potter. If I surrender more of myself to Him, He won't have to work so hard on me.

 

[Ace1234]

I cannot say I understand what you're going through but I do understand that it must be difficult but so long as you are focusing on your own pain and suffering you are taking your focus away from God. Your own pain and suffering may be your idol.

I have to disagree with that, not only for myself, but others that suffer in severe pain. Those that have the disease I have, it's compared to being on fire. We can't shower, because water hurts too bad, have to wear baggy clothes. I've walked in on the deaths of so many friends that have this disease and all were strong people. It's not that we make an idol out of pain, but go turn a iron on hot and place it on your skin and see how long you can stand it....imagine more that 50% or more of your body like that, including your privates, that's how doctors compare it. Those that are lucky and have insurance or see specialist live daily connected to morphine pumps and in constant pain management. The medical profession deemed it the "suicide disease" because about 30-50% of people kill themselves after stage 3. I've seen some of the strongest people I know end it, just to get out of pain. None of these I've known that have ended it were weak, they fought for years, most in utter poverty and alone, they were the strongest people I've known.

Most, like me, keep the faith and believe and try for years, we would like to think they're is a purpose, a plan, but we can't find one. I'm not sure what God's plan would be to have people suffer 24/7 in pain.

It's like the slave that said he prayed for years that God would make him free, then said he decided better to use his own two feet.

I think for some the best hope for life can only be in the life to come.

 

[WIP]

Maybe you misunderstand my point. In my opinion an idol is anything that you would focus your attention on more than God himself. Here's a common example that people can easily relate to. If I focus my life on money, money becomes my idol. This can happen whether you are rich or poor. A rich person may strive to get richer and horde his money. A poor person can become so fixated on getting out from being poor that money also becomes their idol. Like the rich person the poor person spends all his/her energy on making money. The only difference is the poor won't have any to horde.<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
If I focus all my attention on my illness or pain or other things, is it possible that these too can become idols and take my focus away from God? Jesus said not to worry about tomorrow, what we will wear, what we will eat, etc. Does that apply even if I am naked or hungry?<O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Bear in mind that I don't mean to come across as insensitive. I understand that you are in pain and without a doubt it is extremely difficult to handle and there's no way for me to know what you are going through. I will pray for you. <O:p</O:p
<O:p</O:p
Consider Job. Lost all his family, lost all his wealth, became extremely ill to near death and yet held on to his faith. He was eventually rewarded by God before he died this is true. But is the story of Job about earning worldly rewards for our faith or is it about something else? Consider Jesus Christ. Falsely accused, arrested, humiliated, spit upon, mocked, beaten and tortured to near death, hung on a cross, speared, fed sour drink, left to die, and finally bore the weight of the sins of the entire world. Not only did he go through all this but he lived on death row for he knew it was coming. He pleaded with God to take the cup away from him but what? "Not my will but yours be done." Luke 22:42 NKJV Unlike Job he did not get rewarded in this life but he certainly was rewarded in life after death.

It's about persevering, fighting the good fight, and never giving up on God. My fear is that you might be considering giving up and I would not want this to happen. Seek Jesus for his strength. He is the master healer. Satan will tempt you with thoughts about not trusting God. It is not our place to tell God what he must do and when. It is our place to trust Him with completely.

 

[Gazelle]

It is when we are most tried that our faith is so important. Others, who have not the trials we experience cannot understand. Our faith truly has to be as the Bible says, "the faith of our LORD JESUS CHRIST" and not of our own. We cannot make it on our own.

Don't doubt in the dark what you knew to be true in the light.

Rely upon what you knew to be true, that God is there and cares.

There is evidence that when at the deepest point of a very dark well, when one looks up, even in noon day sun, the stars are visible to the naked eye.

I pray that God will give you relief so you may continue to serve Him in your present suffering as He heals you....

 

[TRUTH over TRADITION]

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like you could really use some help physically, financially, as well as emotionally. With that understood, is there anything specific any of us can do to be of assistance to you?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Loosing faith is tough to deal with, especially when the faith you doubt happens to deal the very foundation that you had built your life upon. My advice for anyone that is dealing with doubt is to do an evaluation of what is real and true, and base your faith going forward upon those things first and foremost. Seek out friends to lean on and open yourself up to the prospects of new relationships because that my friend can be a great benefit to you. <o:p></o:p>
As far as finding a purpose in all this suffering, the sad truth may in fact be that there is none. Time and change make victims of us all and unfortunately, suffering is a part of our existence that we up to this point have not been able to do much about. <o:p></o:p>

 

[Ace1234]

Sorry to hear about your situation. It sounds like you could really use some help physically, financially, as well as emotionally. With that understood, is there anything specific any of us can do to be of assistance to you?ffice:office" /><O:p></O:p>
Loosing faith is tough to deal with, especially when the faith you doubt happens to deal the very foundation that you had built your life upon. My advice for anyone that is dealing with doubt is to do an evaluation of what is real and true, and base your faith going forward upon those things first and foremost. Seek out friends to lean on and open yourself up to the prospects of new relationships because that my friend can be a great benefit to you. <O:p></O:p>
As far as finding a purpose in all this suffering, the sad truth may in fact be that there is none. Time and change make victims of us all and unfortunately, suffering is a part of our existence that we up to this point have not been able to do much about. <O:p></O:p>

Well, least got power back on today, so that's good, dang cold the last 5 days.

I guess the question most that suffer have is "why". Most of us are taught that we have hills and valleys, things get bad, but get better, but for many that doesn't happen. It doesn't mean people don't adjust, but even in America hundreds of thousands are simply discarded. You know, Job loses everything, but then gets back more.

The sad thing is uncurable painful diseases. I had a somewhat life when on many meds, without meds I've had no life.

My problem is I'm trapped at home, can't drive. I'm hurt that my wife and son had to leave and move far away because I couldn't provide. I know she loves me, but I know watching a strong father and businessman slowly fade has taken a toll on them both. I miss them, it's almost unbearable. Many nights I faced suicide, but I would hold my sons picture and say don't, it would hurt him so. Again, nothing I want, but pain breaks you and puts you out of your mind, I'm afraid in one of those moments I won't stop. The trials were so much easier to bare when my family was home. Just reached that point of total loss. I have no family. My mother died this past spring, she was ill, but it wasn't expected so soon.

The hardest thing to do is ask for help. I was once so strong, took pride in being a great father and provider. It's hard to believe years ago we had a wonderful upper middle class life to watch my wife begging this last year from anyone just to feed us.

I wouldn't, nor would I imply I would come here to seek money, I wouldn't, but trust me they're people very close to you all that need help...seek them out.

This illness for me is systemic, effects much of my body and like many illnesses causes other health issues. My faith is but a thread, I just want my wife and son home.., but I know they can't live like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo-xQLigqDo&feature=related

 

[for_his_glory]

I can totally sympathize with the pain you are enduring as I have chronic pain in my lower back and legs. It gets so bad at times I can barely move, but I push myself through the pain as I am not allowing it to control my life. I might not be able to work anymore, but instead of dwelling on what I can not do I dwell on the things I now have time to do. I've questioned God so many times why me and his answer was that flesh is just that, flesh, and it can get sick and deteriorate, but it's all in how you handle it.

I have and still have thoughts of suicide, but when I get these thoughts and feel deep depression coming on I know this only me allowing Satan to put these thoughts in my mind so I start feeling sorry for myself. It's all in our attitude on how we are going to handle the bad things in our lives and for me I know Gods grace and mercy as I have to keep my faith level high to overcome the physical challenges. I know how God has moved in me in the past and even though I might not always feel him around me I know that he is.

I might not be able to work or do much of anything without causing the pain to increase, but now I have no distractions in my life and can do what it is that God has called me to do. I always told myself if I didn't have to work so much I could dedicate all my time to Gods ministry and that is just what I am doing now within my afflictions. Don't dwell on the things you can no longer do, but dwell on those things you could be doing. Dwell on the love of God knowing that when this flesh is no longer we will be with the Lord forever and isn't that the most important thing. Attitude will also get your family back as you and your wife figure out things with Christ being the center of your lives.

Will keep you in my prayers and just go find a quiet place and cry out to God, but also be still long enough for him to speak to your heart even if it takes hours, just be still as he will speak to you.

 

[Gazelle]

still more (good to hear God got your power on...Thank you Papa! ... what's next for you my friend? are you located in the US? It would be easier to find set resources available if we knew ...)

 

[Ace1234]

I live in NC...

Today my wife came to visit with my son...it was so good to see them, but so hard to see them go....She is trying hard, pray for her. Maybe one day we can be a family again.

 

[for_his_glory]

That's great that you two still communicate and keep that communication open to be able to talk to each other about anything and everything so all things can be resolved so all of you will be a family under the same roof soon. I know it is hard to have faith and trust in God when things go sour in our lives, but like Job that lost and gained back because of his faith so is the same with you and your family and when faith is weak, seek.

 

[tim-from-pa]

Well, least got power back on today, so that's good, dang cold the last 5 days.

I guess the question most that suffer have is "why". Most of us are taught that we have hills and valleys, things get bad, but get better, but for many that doesn't happen. It doesn't mean people don't adjust, but even in America hundreds of thousands are simply discarded. You know, Job loses everything, but then gets back more.

The sad thing is uncurable painful diseases. I had a somewhat life when on many meds, without meds I've had no life.

My problem is I'm trapped at home, can't drive. I'm hurt that my wife and son had to leave and move far away because I couldn't provide. I know she loves me, but I know watching a strong father and businessman slowly fade has taken a toll on them both. I miss them, it's almost unbearable. Many nights I faced suicide, but I would hold my sons picture and say don't, it would hurt him so. Again, nothing I want, but pain breaks you and puts you out of your mind, I'm afraid in one of those moments I won't stop. The trials were so much easier to bare when my family was home. Just reached that point of total loss. I have no family. My mother died this past spring, she was ill, but it wasn't expected so soon.

The hardest thing to do is ask for help. I was once so strong, took pride in being a great father and provider. It's hard to believe years ago we had a wonderful upper middle class life to watch my wife begging this last year from anyone just to feed us.

I wouldn't, nor would I imply I would come here to seek money, I wouldn't, but trust me they're people very close to you all that need help...seek them out.

This illness for me is systemic, effects much of my body and like many illnesses causes other health issues. My faith is but a thread, I just want my wife and son home.., but I know they can't live like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zo-xQLigqDo&feature=related

You got your power back, too? You must live in the NE here where I was without power for a week! Good thing my house is solar heated while my born again counterparts once accused me of being too pagan and interested in the sun, but they were shivering while I was warm at least.

Your dilemma is the food that atheists use to want to disprove God (If He cared, why am I suffering?). But what I can tell you is that when I read the bible, my faith tells me that the focus is not the here and now, but the Kingdom to come. As a matter of fact, the apostle Paul said we (as Christians) are the most miserable if it was not for a hereafter.

Where people who lose their faith (and atheists) err is that they assume everything must be fulfilled in this life now and if there are blessings now we must be right with God. On the contrary, the bible makes no such claims (although God does promise to bless certain people, but not due to their merits, but His purpose instead). Since my prayers are not answered any more than if I prayed to a chair, I can see your point. If I had to convince an atheist of God, I could not do so, and indeed, they have a point if the promised blessings were in this life.

But the bible makes no such claim and their error is understanding how God should act from their vantage point in this life. If the bible did make such a claim, they would have a point, and I would instantly turn into one myself. But the bible does NOT, and on that point they err in making God out to be something He did not promise. See my point?

The same can be said of your suffering. Like this present world, it will one day perish. Like a lost person, they will one day perish in the lake of fire, ceasing to exist. There will one day be no sorrow, no illness, and no hell. But that's tomorrow. That does not come now.

If you believe in Christ, all your sins and suffering will be destroyed in the lake of fire while you (being tried in fire) will gain eternal life. THAT is the time when God answered everything you ever wanted. Not today yet.

 

[Ace1234]

Tim,

I understand your points towards atheist, but most atheist refuse to believe in God more due to science, not suffering. I do agree that many question such evil and suffering, often pointing to their view of a cruel God in the OT, a God that will one day put the masses in hell to be tortured. Most atheist are very humane, they hate suffering and often more in touch with people that suffer than christians. They feel humans must resolve suffering.

Yes, suffering poses serious problems for me, but far from my own. If a millions kids around the world starve, suffer and die, I ask why should I expect a pass from God not to suffer, but it sucks. My illness has cost me everything. For years I believed a "Job plan" was in the works, this would get better, our family would get by....it took 7 years, with the last two losing everything. My biggest fear is my wife has now moved on. It was great to see her, but when you spend months apart your brain rewires you for a new life. She is rebuilding, it seems to me she is moving on.

See, that's the issue as you point out, most of us are taught things get bad, but they get better, as you point out they don't for many. Why we all want the afterlife of no suffering, we can't help but question when we lose all. I didn't lose power due to the storm, I couldn't pay it, so I dang near froze for a week. Today is the first day I've ate more than oatmeal in a week. With my pain and no meds I had a tough week, but that's the point I was making about suicide.., I don't want to die, but the chance I see that such suffering could end. The other issue is I see no point in my suffering. For the first few years I made a ministry out of it, helping others with my illness. I have personnally walked in the aftermath of over 12 suicides, where I went to check on friends only to find them dead. I never thought that would be where I would get, but here I am like them. I can't help others now, so what use am I.

Even with all the pain the emotional pain of losing all I worked for and not having my family still hurts the worse.......I fear she is gone.

 

[jasoncran]

Tim,

I understand your points towards atheist, but most atheist refuse to believe in God more due to science, not suffering. I do agree that many question such evil and suffering, often pointing to their view of a cruel God in the OT, a God that will one day put the masses in hell to be tortured. Most atheist are very humane, they hate suffering and often more in touch with people that suffer than christians. They feel humans must resolve suffering.

Yes, suffering poses serious problems for me, but far from my own. If a millions kids around the world starve, suffer and die, I ask why should I expect a pass from God not to suffer, but it sucks. My illness has cost me everything. For years I believed a "Job plan" was in the works, this would get better, our family would get by....it took 7 years, with the last two losing everything. My biggest fear is my wife has now moved on. It was great to see her, but when you spend months apart your brain rewires you for a new life. She is rebuilding, it seems to me she is moving on.

See, that's the issue as you point out, most of us are taught things get bad, but they get better, as you point out they don't for many. Why we all want the afterlife of no suffering, we can't help but question when we lose all. I didn't lose power due to the storm, I couldn't pay it, so I dang near froze for a week. Today is the first day I've ate more than oatmeal in a week. With my pain and no meds I had a tough week, but that's the point I was making about suicide.., I don't want to die, but the chance I see that such suffering could end. The other issue is I see no point in my suffering. For the first few years I made a ministry out of it, helping others with my illness. I have personnally walked in the aftermath of over 12 suicides, where I went to check on friends only to find them dead. I never thought that would be where I would get, but here I am like them. I can't help others now, so what use am I.

Even with all the pain the emotional pain of losing all I worked for and not having my family still hurts the worse.......I fear she is gone.

former christians that have become athiest has little to do with science. its more about anger at god or simply never really knowing him.

i have a former athiest tell me that in my church. he wanted god to bless his sinful lust and god didnt and he walked away from the church and god.years later he repented and is the opposite.

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Ace,

Your story touched me in many ways as it resonated in many parts of my own life. I honestly don't know if I'll truly understand it in this lifetime. Maybe that's why I'm so infatuated with the story of Job, because it shows how one can feel all alone. One who at first tries to maintain what he's known all his life as true, and is then inflicted even worse until he is utterly broken down. His world is in shambles, and he doesn't have the answers.

His friends try to comfort him by being with him in his quiet slumber, but he takes his frustration out on them when his period of mourning is finished, and they are so dumbfounded they don't know what to say that would comfort him. Perhaps they have even thought about why God was inflicting Job with such suffering, and though their motives are pure, they miss the biggest part and Job eventually just screams out what he's been searching for all along. Simply, he states, "Pity me!"

We all need somebody to comfort us, to have pity upon us at times. To really show us that through it all, we just need to know that somebody cares when we go through great trials of suffering. There is nothing worse than to feel your alone in a world full of people and frustrated as to why you feel like you deserve any of the suffering that we're experiencing.

Life isn't fair. It hasn't been fair from the day I was born, and it won't be fair the day I die. We live in a broken world, full of pain and suffering. We're fragile and it doesn't really take much to break us.

But like Job, we've got to get past this idea that we are earning our keep. God wants a relationship with us, he doesn't just want us going through the motions. He wants us to love him. I mean, really love him. The kind of love that when everything else is stripped away from your life. that love remains. Why? Maybe because it's the only thing that really means anything. I don't really know.

I too look at the suffering of the world, and am reminded of my own suffering. But it reminds of of how broken this world is. How fragile it truly is. And if it's all taken away, the only thing that is left is God. And if scripture is correct and God is love, then without love, what have I become if I let that hope also be stripped from me.

 

[Ace1234]

The Job story seems to give some insight, but for many confusing. Maybe God wants to strip us down to nothing to love him or break us, but often we ask how does he pick and choose..If God is no respector of person, why not break everyone down to nothing.

The other issue about Job is obvious can Satan go before God and convince him to put us through severe trials?

Often we don't look at the others in the book of Job that suffered and died, the story focuses on Job, his children were killed, servants..etc,..Certainly they wanted life and to love their families, so were they just born to be tools in Job's testing? We don't know how many exactly died in Job's test....

The bigger conflict many have is Job had everything restored and much more. That is the common teaching. Story even said his new daughters were more beautiful that the previous, but what parent would want to trade children for looks..Myself, if I would've known my kids would die because of me, I probably would've cussed God and died so they could live, but that is my love as a parent.
Don't think it means I love God less, just I wouldn't want anyone to suffer and die over me... The fact remains for many, there is never any restoration, life becomes total loss, even in America thousands die every week alone.

A few days ago, a wonderful christian man that works at the gasmart as a cashier was robbed and shot in the face, he didn't die, but is pronounced brain dead, but will not die.......had two young kids, it makes no sense. That is what is difficult, trying to make sense so you feel somehow your suffering serves some overall purpose for God, but often it doesn't, people end up alone, in poverty and pain often until they die.

It becomes more difficult as years keep passing by.

 

[stovebolts]

I understand Ace, but I'm also reminded of what is written: He who has been given much, much is expected.

As far as Job, it's like the rest of the bible. You can ask the wrong questions in the wrong places.

I think that's why when somebody asks me what it's like being a Christian, I respond by says, "I do a lot of asking, seeking and knocking". And I'm learning patience along the way.

There is a lot to celebrate in this world too, so lets not ever forget to find good wherever we can, and use the sufferings of this world to remind us all how fragile this place really is anyway.