[_ Old Earth _] Where Did the Idea of a Flat Earth Originate?

[Brother Mike]

I never said the Bible is a figure of speech nor did I say it was a book of poems. It is, however, a book that happens to contain figures of speech as well as poems as parts of its writings.


It's called common sense and using it to understand context, to understand what the author's point is. The Bible uses such figures of speech and symbolism throughout.


Again, figures of speech, some of which are simply the writers speaking from our point of view on earth. Perhaps it's best to leave theology and biblical interpretation to the theologians and scholars.

Isa 40:22 He who is sitting on the circle of the earth, And its inhabitants are as grasshoppers, He who is stretching out as a thin thing the heavens, And spreadeth them as a tent to dwell in. (YLT)

Isa 40:22 It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in: (KJV)

Isa 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in; (ESV)


Science tells us we're on a ball and it's moving. That was figured out centuries ago, by Christians no less. The idea of a non-moving earth is an old, pagan one, not a modern, Christian one.


God is everywhere.


And just why do you think we can only see about 5,000 miles below? If the earth was flat, we should be able to see the edges, but we can't. The reason is because the earth isn't flat.

It's the same reason why even if you were up 2000 feet on the east coast of North America with a telescope or pair of binoculars, you wouldn't be able to see Africa or the UK.


What about explorers and ships that have reached the North Pole? Not a single one has ever reported seeing the edge of the earth.

As for east/west flights, would you agree that two planes leaving from the same city, one going east and one going west, will eventually meet up? Do you believe that people have sailed around the world to end up where they began?


The Bible does not teach that the earth is flat and there is no conspiracy, for the very common sense reason I have given.

The Bible does tell you the Earth is flat, fixed at the corners. No matter how much theology you use, CHUG will remain a Male Hebrew Noun and not give it's shape. It is not the description of Earth, but a place God is where people look like grasshoppers.

Isa 40:22 It was made by the one who sits on his throne above the earth and beyond the sky; the people below look as tiny as ants. He stretched out the sky like a curtain, like a tent in which to live. GNB

Isa 40:22 God is enthroned above the earth, and those who live on it are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the sky like a canopy and spreads it out like a tent to live in. GW

Isa 40:22 It is God Who sits above the circle (the horizon) of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; it is He Who stretches out the heavens like [gauze] curtains and spreads them out like a tent to dwell in, AMP

Isa 40:22 It is he who is seated over the arch of the earth, and the people in it are as small as locusts; by him the heavens are stretched out like an arch, and made ready like a tent for a living-place. BBE
chûg
BDB Definition:
1) circle, circuit, compass (Translated as 3 places)
2) (BDB) vault (of the heavens) (Hebrew definition)

Part of Speech: noun masculine

1) No plane has crossed center point of the North Or South Pole. NOT ONE.
2) You don't understand Ecc 1:5 or Psalm 19. You can travel east or west indefinitely.
3) You believe the Spinning ball placed in your class room over scriptures? You believe in evolution also I suppose. It's from the same freemasonry sciences.
4) Admiral Byrd Navy expedition found 5,000 miles past Center South pole that should not be there. He gave his findings on CBS and it was live broadcast to the public as they attempted to fly across only making it 2,300 miles before turning back to McMurdo.
5) They were only able to travel 1,700 miles North pole before turning back. All this is well documented.
6) You can't see further than about 5 miles over water depending on atmospheric conditions with the Human eye. You can zoom further than 54 miles though aided optically. Globe earthers think they have bionic eyes, and they don't.

Nothing in scripture denotes a spinning ball, a ball, but a stationary Earth that never moves. Even the creation account should tell you that the earth is a flat plane when God divided the water from the water putting a firmament in the middle. He did not make a ball and throw it through space at 483,000 mph.

You have Zero evidence but from the beast system governments and their magical Gravity, Time, and Probability to explain things to you. Every experiment you can do, every observations will show you the Earth is as God made it.

The Horizon will always meet your eye level no matter the Height. That is because, it's not a ball. Even NASA's Own video of the max of 89 miles us show zero curved earth. NASA removed that video for good reasons. I have it on my channel.

 

[Runner]

Ah, seasons. I had thought about this before and forgot to post on it. Right now, it is -25°C where I am and where I have a sister-in-law who is visiting from Brisbane, where it is currently +23°C. I also notice that the sun is significantly lower in the sky during winter, resulting in very short days of sunlight compared to spring and summer.

And I wouldn't be surprised if it is all rather consistent year-round at the equator.

I, too, am curious as to how that all works with a flat earth.

The psychology of this, as well as Young Earth Creationism, is fascinating to me. In both instances, we start with an interpretation of the biblical text that is made in a vacuum and is in no way mandatory and then treat it as though it were the only possible interpretation. This interpretation happens to be at complete odds with what our five senses, our intellects and the best evidence from every branch of science tell us. In order to sustain the biblical interpretation we have adopted, we must reject what our five senses, our intellects and the best evidence from every branch of science tell us - as though they couldn't possibly help inform a correct interpretation of the Bible and even though we believe our five senses and intellects are God-given and the universe is orderly and susceptible to investigation and explanation because God created it that way. But more than this, we must prove the best evidence from every branch of science is wrong with bogus science and conspiracy theories of our own that a reasonably intelligent 6-year-old could see through in a heartbeat.

It's always been my thesis that no one - truly no one - actually believes the earth is flat or 6,000 years old, except for the same type of person who genuinely believes he is Napoleon. Being the "quirky outsider" is an appealing niche in life for a certain type of person. I am a battle-scarred veteran of the UFO community, the JFK assassination community, the Near Death Experience community, the Psychical Research community, the Shroud of Turin community and just about every other Weirdness community you could imagine. I am generally sympathetic to all species of believers within these communities. Even within these fringe communities, however, there is some small segment that corresponds to the Flat Earthers and Young Earth Creationists and makes everyone else cringe. No one really believes Jackie shot JFK, but there are loons who revel in insisting they do. They are the Weirdest of the Weird, and they love it. The Flat Earthers and Young Earth Creationists are not merely garden-variety loons but have the added psychological benefit of claiming the moral high ground of being the true Bible believers, the only ones who really take God at His word.

I would respect Flat Earthers and Young Earth Creationists more if they wouldn't even attempt to defend their positions. Yes, we agree, our five senses, intellects and the best evidence from every branch of science tell us the earth is spherical and billions of years old. Yes, we agree, the vast majority of Bible scholars do not believe our position is mandated by or even supported by the biblical text. We don't care. We believe because it is absurd. We take it on faith the earth is flat because that's what we think the Bible says, and that's all there is to it. An approach like the one being taken here, as though these were serious open questions, just makes the "believers" look like fools.

My Virtual Flat Earth Paradigm in particular was not entirely facetious. If someone paid me to mount the best lawyerly defense I possibly could for the Flat Earth Theory, I would sincerely tell my clients: "OK, guys, we need to convince the jury that reality is something entirely different from what their senses, their intellects and the best evidence from every branch of science tell them. Forget about convincing them the earth is flat - we'll work on that after we convince them reality is something entirely different from what 99.99999999999% of humanity believes it to be. By the way, none of you happens to believe he's Napoleon, do you?"

 

[jasonc]

I am a young earth creationist and I know a few others.my pastor is one.

Napoleon complex I think not

 

[Runner]

I am a young earth creationist and I know a few others.my pastor is one.

Napoleon complex I think not

OK, fair enough. I would place YEC at least a couple of notches above the FE, but it has long been and remains my thesis that no one genuinely believes the earth is 6,000 years old. I don't think Ken Ham believes it. I think folks who are sincere about FE and YEC, like folks who are sincere about Scientology, somehow compartmentalize these notions in some mental room they visit when they leave their intellects behind, ideally when surrounded by fellow YEC, FE or Scientologists. These notions, it seems to me, aren't really beliefs but more like ... I don't know, flags to be rallied around or something. I do believe that certain things can be known intuitively, as opposed to rationally, but it is difficult to believe something intuitively when rational analysis tells you it's dead wrong. Things like the shape and age of the earth don't strike me as the sort of things one knows intuitively - they are the epitome of the sorts of things one determines rationally. I don't mean to be insulting; I don't question the sincerity of you or your pastor, I just question whether anyone can truly believe the YEC or FE position. But maybe I'm wrong, or just not spiritual enough, or haven't had enough practice.

"Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said. "One can't believe impossible things."
"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was younger, I always did it for half an hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."​

 

[jasonc]

Okay you are presuming much.i know a state biologist ,a nuclear engineer who don't buy evolution ,that's the biologist,the engineer is a a yecer.

The man who made the mrI possible is a young earth creationist . historical science is irevelent to what is observable .

I don't need to know how the fish got here to study or know his behavior

 

[Brother Mike]

I am a young earth creationist and I know a few others.my pastor is one.

Napoleon complex I think not

Yes, your a young earth creationist. Darwin was in fact a Freemason, so was Newton, so was every person on the Apollo missions.
View attachment 10590

It's not a far stretch considering that up until 1950's Einsteins theory of special relativity was seriously contested. He had to come up with something that held it all together. Up until 1950's, Flat Earth was extremely relevant, even in the papers. Thank NASA for squashing that until 2015.

Just like the false evolution they teach in school that came from the Freemasons and governments hiding God, so the Earth also had to be a ball like many other balls that have life on them. We are a cosmic nothing, and man has to look to other man to get answers. Had they come clean with what the Navy found on both poles, what they found above (Operation Fish Bowl)

The Earth is actually according to scripture just like the creation account is in scripture.

You can't prove a spinning ball earth from our perspective, and NASA's earth pictures are all what they call "COMPOSITE" images. There is no picture of Earth from space, not one.

Scripture is right. Not moving, fixed in place, flat plane drawn with a line, not around. There is no curvature rate, no rocket that has ever taken orbit in space no video of it and the numerous video's on NASA messing up the CGI on the Fake Station (Iss space station)

No moon landings, it's a light for the night and see through.

Mike.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

From my experience, there will not be enough proof out there to convince you. People are either open to the Biblically endorsed extra-biblical text or they just write it off due to the fact that the content paints a very extraordinary picture of history.

We believe Plato, Aristotle, Socrates, but not Enoch. Why? Because his story line is not traditional and it is extraordinary. It does not, however, contradict the canonized Bible.

I don't know why, we as humans, refuse to understand that it is pretty arrogant to believe that life on this earth has always been just like it is today.

Well, I'm told we have 6 copies of Socrates.
So if you believe it, then you'll believe anything.
I don't believe anything.
If I did, I'd be putting down the Bible like so many others around here do.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Hi Allen Wayne / AKA as Rollo Tamasi,

The Bible is a science book also, unless you do not believe in creation as the Word tells it. If a man follows Christ in the NT, Christ confirms the events of the OT creation, the flood, Enoch, David, man and women and marriage. Hours in a day. That the earth hangs in space with no support except by God's doing. How mountains and valleys are created, evaporation and rain. I'm busy now, but I will share scripture later. Do you believe the witness of Christ in the NT? or do you believe other theories?

Later
Christ in us,
Douglas Summers

I believe God uses the Earth as a footstool

 

[Brother Mike]

Well, I'm told we have 6 copies of Socrates.
So if you believe it, then you'll believe anything.
I don't believe anything.
If I did, I'd be putting down the Bible like so many others around here do.

Folks pick Science of the Freemasons, over the Word of the Living God. I made a PDF with all the scriptures concerning Earth.

NOT ONE SCRIPTURE denotes anything round, spinning or flying 483,000 mph through space. Planes don't even land if the Earth is spinning 940 mph in North America. They would be destroyed instantly.

My Mini Book which Pastors have requested, and one wrote his own book based on the info in my mini book sold on Amazon.

Bible Earth: Earth according to scriptures, Winds, corners explained.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B--BD9lsZ13DS2VJd1dlTTRTVUk/view

Photo evidence the Moon in fact gives off her own light, just as scripture says.

Mike.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I believe God uses the Earth as a footstool

I

I believe God uses the Earth as a footstool

Isaiah 66:1-2. There are two books "Many infallible Truths" and "Scientific Creationism" By Henry M. Morris. It will help give you a deeper prospective of creation by God. I hope you will read them.

 

[Jacks Bratt]

Well, I'm told we have 6 copies of Socrates.
So if you believe it, then you'll believe anything.
I don't believe anything.
If I did, I'd be putting down the Bible like so many others around here do.

When you say "you don't believe anything" do you mean that you don't believe the Bible?

 

[Barbarian]

Folks pick Science of the Freemasons, over the Word of the Living God. I made a PDF with all the scriptures concerning Earth.

NOT ONE SCRIPTURE denotes anything round, spinning or flying 483,000 mph through space. Planes don't even land if the Earth is spinning 940 mph in North America. They would be destroyed instantly.

And a jet airliner is going hundreds of miles an hour, but if you jump up in the aisle, you aren't destroyed when you hit the floor again, even if it's going 500 miles an hour. If you know why, you know why airplanes can land on the spinning Earth without getting destroyed.

On the other hand, flat Earth believers can't explain why a Foucault pendulum, works or why the Coriolis effect works. Because they would be impossible on a stationary flat Earth.

 

[Brother Mike]

And a jet airliner is going hundreds of miles an hour, but if you jump up in the aisle, you aren't destroyed when you hit the floor again, even if it's going 500 miles an hour. If you know why, you know why airplanes can land on the spinning Earth without getting destroyed.

On the other hand, flat Earth believers can't explain why a Foucault pendulum, works or why the Coriolis effect works. Because they would be impossible on a stationary flat Earth.

I gave you the video of the how the Foucault Pendulum works by a top researcher. If the earth were spinning, there would be no stationary pendulums, but they all need to be started.

If your in a plane and jump, your traveling at the same speed of the plane 540 mph cruise speed. The distanced jumped is not great enough to effect rate of change.

If you toss a ball in a car doing 60 mph, you won't notice the ball traveling 60 mph Pulse the 4 mph you threw the ball. However, if you hit the breaks hard on that car, the rate of change is greater than an objects ability to slow down with the car. The object continues at the speed of 60 mph if the car suddenly slows.

Same with a train. If you were on top of the train and jump 50 feet, you no longer would have reference contact with that train and loose momentum as the train continued on beneath you.

Planes the same way, they don't keep their reference frame to the earth as their rate of change is to great in any direction. No law of Gravity keeps the plane planted above earth as for the plane changes direction and moves through variations of air density and wind shear's from any direction.

Simple Physics. The Earth is not spinning, or no plane would land. There is nothing in the property of Gravity, air pressure, or the many changes of atmospheric density that keeps the plane perfectly to it's earth reference frame.

Now if you can make a video demonstrating something under it's own power keeping a reference frame flying above a spinning ball, I would love to see it.

However, you can't.

Your bible says the Earth is stationary. I would start to believe God.

Mike.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

When you say "you don't believe anything" do you mean that you don't believe the Bible?

The Bible is the one thing I always believe.
I always have since the day I got saved back in 1985.
It is the one constant in my life.
I may not understand it all but I believe it anyway.
I'm dedicated to God's Word.
When the Bible says the sun goes across the Earth and then hurries back to the beginning, I don't need to believe the Earth is round or flat.
I just need to believe that the sun is the one moving, not the Earth.
You can go figure out the rest.
Just don't contradict God's Word.

 

[GodsGrace]

Don't know, however, the Bible quotes it and that is Holy Spirit inspired, God breathed, word of God. Gotta be something to it. Doesn't the dead sea scrolls have some of it too? I am busy and don't have time to search right now.

Could you please just tell me if you're referring to:
The Book of the Secrets of Enoch

Thanks.

 

[GodsGrace]

I gave you the video of the how the Foucault Pendulum works by a top researcher. If the earth were spinning, there would be no stationary pendulums, but they all need to be started.

If your in a plane and jump, your traveling at the same speed of the plane 540 mph cruise speed. The distanced jumped is not great enough to effect rate of change.

If you toss a ball in a car doing 60 mph, you won't notice the ball traveling 60 mph Pulse the 4 mph you threw the ball. However, if you hit the breaks hard on that car, the rate of change is greater than an objects ability to slow down with the car. The object continues at the speed of 60 mph if the car suddenly slows.

Same with a train. If you were on top of the train and jump 50 feet, you no longer would have reference contact with that train and loose momentum as the train continued on beneath you.

Planes the same way, they don't keep their reference frame to the earth as their rate of change is to great in any direction. No law of Gravity keeps the plane planted above earth as for the plane changes direction and moves through variations of air density and wind shear's from any direction.

Simple Physics. The Earth is not spinning, or no plane would land. There is nothing in the property of Gravity, air pressure, or the many changes of atmospheric density that keeps the plane perfectly to it's earth reference frame.

Now if you can make a video demonstrating something under it's own power keeping a reference frame flying above a spinning ball, I would love to see it.

However, you can't.

Your bible says the Earth is stationary. I would start to believe God.

Mike.

Hi Mike,

People travelling in the Concorde could see the curvature of the earth.
They were travelling at 60,000 feet, if I remember correctly - I believe I do.
How would you explain this?

Wondering

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Here's a picture of the Earth from 60,000 feet.
Where's the curve?

 

[GodsGrace]

Here's a picture of the Earth from 60,000 feet.
Where's the curve?

Interesting. Thanks for posting this.
I did hear it, however, from some passengers.

Wondering

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Interesting. Thanks for posting this.
I did hear it, however, from some passengers.

Wondering

This happens.
If you believe enough, it becomes true.
I remember flying overseas and seeing a sunrise one way and a sunset the other.
Both times I was not looking way down on the Earth.
I was more or less looking straight ahead.
I wondered about that then, not knowing about believing in a flat Earth.
Now I see why I wasn't looking down.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

In the picture above, where the blue meets the black, that's where the sun should rise.