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Where Is the Lake of Fire?

sisterchristian said:
Because I really don't think God wan'ts everyone going around plucking their eyeballs out or cutting their hands or feet off, I think what he was saying is to not make any provisions for the flesh.
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I believe the statement that Jesus makes is a literal statement to pluck ones eye out so that one doesn't fall into the sin of adultery, however, it was not a command to do such. I believe you are correct in your assessment, and that Jesus was teaching that it is more important to regard the eternal destiny than it is to regard the temporal destiny of the flesh.

If I were to make the statement to hold your nose so that the food doesn't taste so bad, has nothing to do with the actual taste of the food, but the action stops the ability of the smell to contribute to the taste.

Would plucking out the eyes literally stop one from committing adultery by "looking" at women? Yes. Would it cease the heart of one from committing adultery within ones heart? No.
 
Solo said:
Would plucking out the eyes literally stop one from committing adultery by "looking" at women? Yes. Would it cease the heart of one from committing adultery within ones heart? No.
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And that is my point exactly. Plucking out an eye does nothing but create a blind person. A person can lust after the flesh (and of women) by creating lustful images in their mind. The eye is just an organ of the body. The "heart" (or soul/spirit) is where you need to "cut away" at!
 
Orion said:
And that is my point exactly. Plucking out an eye does nothing but create a blind person. A person can lust after the flesh (and of women) by creating lustful images in their mind. The eye is just an organ of the body. The "heart" (or soul/spirit) is where you need to "cut away" at!
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The circumcision of the flesh.
 
Solo said:
The circumcision of the flesh.
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Specifically, a circumcision of the heart. Both the OT and NT mention this circumcision. This is the place to start cutting away transgressions from one's life.
 
vic C. said:
Specifically, a circumcision of the heart. Both the OT and NT mention this circumcision. This is the place to start cutting away transgressions from one's life.
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I prefer to not use the term "circumcision" when I refer to cutting away that which shouldn't be in a person's "heart". But I won't bring up my thoughts on that topic within THIS topic.

But yes, cutting away from the soul/spirit/"heart" will be far more affective than a body mutilation.
 
But back to topic, I don't see Hell as being a physical place. Even for those who believe in annihilation. It really makes no sense to give life again to a dead unbeliever, only to (once again) destroy it in fire.

The wages of sin is DEATH. When the person dies, why would they be given life again, only to die again? Or, to be continually alive in punishment for all eternity (for those who have a more protestant view of Hell)?
 
Orion said:
But back to topic, I don't see Hell as being a physical place. Even for those who believe in annihilation. It really makes no sense to give life again to a dead unbeliever, only to (once again) destroy it in fire.

The wages of sin is DEATH. When the person dies, why would they be given life again, only to die again? Or, to be continually alive in punishment for all eternity (for those who have a more protestant view of Hell)?
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There has to be a physical aspect to hell.

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

So a person can go all their blaspheming God and His Spirit. shaking their fists at what they don't believe and even speaking vanities against the Godhead... and there should be no punishment whatsoever? Would you allow your children to go unpunished for their grave misbehavior?

Wouldn't you'd think a fair and just God would at first judge and sentence before "execution"? Thus the reason for the resurrection of the unrighteous.
 
There is no sin as grievous as to cause the sinner to be punished for all eternity. Plus, the whole "believe in me or be eternally punished" idea is about as close as a person saying, with a gun to someone's head, "marry me or you loose your life." It isn't what true love is about.

Even if an enemy treats you badly, you're supposed to do good to even them. You are to forgive someone who betrays you even though they don't ask for it. Do you think God would give us such words of wisdom and ideas if God didn't have those same feelings?

Now let's turn it back to the topic of Hell. I've often heard preachers say, "if someone doesn't accept Jesus when alive, God won't drag them kicking and screaming into Heaven." Two thoughts:

1. They may see God in all His glory and WANT to go then.

2. Does it make sense to say that "God won't drag them kicking and screaming into Heaven, . . . . but drag them kicking and screaming into Hell?" I can guarantee they don't want to go there either! :-?
 
Orion said:
... Now let's turn it back to the topic of Hell. I've often heard preachers say, "if someone doesn't accept Jesus when alive, God won't drag them kicking and screaming into Heaven." Two thoughts:

1. They may see God in all His glory and WANT to go then.
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It would be too late then. Man, that would be too easy! "Let me live a life of my choosing and if there is a God, He will reveal to me all His glory and then and only the, I will accept His Son as my Messiah".

Doesn't work that way, Orion.

2. Does it make sense to say that "God won't drag them kicking and screaming into Heaven, . . . . but drag them kicking and screaming into Hell?" I can guarantee they don't want to go there either! :-?
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No one is dragged in anywhere kicking and screaming. If one hears the Gospel in life and the consequences of rejecting it onto their death, without repenting and accepting, they in effect are choosing the punishment awaiting the unrighteous.

Don't let the nonessentials obscure you from the focal point of the Cross and why there had to be a Sacrificial Lamb in the first place. It's either eternal life or eternal separation from The Source of that Life.

Peace,
Vic
 
There is no sin as grievous as to cause the sinner to be punished for all eternity. Plus, the whole "believe in me or be eternally punished" idea is about as close as a person saying, with a gun to someone's head, "marry me or you loose your life." It isn't what true love is about.
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You think it's a command but it's actually a key to the kingdom; for those who find it, it is a rare jewel.
 
vic C. said:
It would be too late then. Man, that would be too easy! "Let me live a life of my choosing and if there is a God, He will reveal to me all His glory and then and only the, I will accept His Son as my Messiah".

Doesn't work that way, Orion.
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Why is it too late? Just because the brain stops functioning, the soul (now free from the battle waged against the mind) no longer has the freedom to choose, and if they do, that's just too bad? How is that justice? Are the people's salvation, who walked with Jesus and saw his love, less than those who have to receive it all solely on blind faith??? :-? And what's so important about these stupid "vessels of dirt" that a decision has to be made while the soul is trapped in it?

vic C. said:
No one is dragged in anywhere kicking and screaming. If one hears the Gospel in life and the consequences of rejecting it onto their death, without repenting and accepting, they in effect are choosing the punishment awaiting the unrighteous.

Don't let the nonessentials obscure you from the focal point of the Cross and why there had to be a Sacrificial Lamb in the first place. It's either eternal life or eternal separation from The Source of that Life.

Peace,
Vic
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They are still ending up in a place where they don't want to be. If the choice is "eternal life", or "eternal separation" then there is no need for more punishment due to torture, . . . if current christian doctrine is true.

As for the sacrificial lamb, the lamb died and it's life was over. . . . to "pay for Israel's sin". The death of Jesus was the "final payment for sin". I say it was for more than those who believe. Jesus's own words proves this when, on the cross, he said, "Father forgive them....". These people didn't ask for it. Were they forgiven? Was the lady, caught in adultery, forgiven? She didn't ask for it either. Maybe christianity sees "forgiveness of sins" in a more ridged way than it actually is.
 
Orion said:
Huh? :-? I believe that I'll still know that they're suffering. Besides, what is the point of people in agony "before the Lamb"? Will they see Jesus while they're in agony? Is this supposed to be some kind of divine "I told you so"? :-?
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Orion, as a believer in Christ Jesus as your personal Savior, your are part of the church/body of Christ whose destiny is in the heavenlies to enjoy all the spiritual blessings of God (see Eph. ch. 1-3). IMO, we will be so involved as heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ, we will probably be unaware of events during the millennium, only as Christ allows, of course.

It is my belief that all those cast into the lake of fire will die, right then, whether the "goat" nations, or those after being judged before the great white throne. The only ones miraculously alive and suffering are the beast (anti-christ), the false prophet, and of course, the devil and his angels.
 
That strikes me as rather selfish of us. . . . . being unaware or rather uncaring about the reality of the situation where even loved ones, who lived a very good life, are in Hell due to not making the right decision when they were alive. I just can't see how I would not be able to continually morn for them. It's not like death here, were they're gone, you morn, then you eventually become accustom to them being no longer alive. At that time, you'll know they are still alive in constant agony. . . . . . . . again, according to the dominant Christian doctrine.
 
Orion said:
That strikes me as rather selfish of us. . . . . being unaware or rather uncaring about the reality of the situation where even loved ones, who lived a very good life, are in Hell due to not making the right decision when they were alive. I just can't see how I would not be able to continually morn for them. It's not like death here, were they're gone, you morn, then you eventually become accustom to them being no longer alive. At that time, you'll know they are still alive in constant agony. . . . . . . . again, according to the dominant Christian doctrine.
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Yes I have family members who' don't want to come to Christ' and I do think about them going to hell' and that hurts. To picture your mom and others burning in hell' and being tormented forever.
 
Lewis W said:
Yes I have family members who' don't want to come to Christ' and I do think about them going to hell' and that hurts. To picture your mom and others burning in hell' and being tormented forever.
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Which is why I don't see that vision of Hell being literal. Such a horrible place to be created by a loving God, knowing the torturous effect it would have on billions of His creation. It is inconsistent with anything other than our own human propensity to wish violence on those who don't do things our way. Not a characteristic of a being who loved them even while they were still in sin. After all, if you LOVE someone, even if they never reciprocate it, . . . you should never wish them harm.
 
Orion, when you think of hell, you think of the worst place possible i.e. torment, fire, darkness, alone, seperated. But you know Orion, it's far worse then you or me or anyone could ever think of, it could not fit into our consciences as how bad hell really is. So as bad as you may think of hell, it's worse.

Sometimes in life when we strugle with bills, family etc. We loose sleep because our brain is working overdrive, we are haunted by fears. Hell is a place where all of our fears become reality but the fears never cease, they haunt us forever and ever. So think about the next time you loose sleep over something, and you can see a little glimpse of what hell will be like but a lot worse.
 
And because a person doesn't accept the sacrifice of Christ, . . . . they deserve that eternity? . . . . . . . :-?

No sin is heinous enough to deserve that level of existence. There is absolutely no justice in that.

I personally don't accept that image of eternity, even for those who aren't "Christians". I still see it as the invention of man and laid at "God's doorstep" as a "this is what will happen to you if you don't follow the way I'm telling you about". Fear is a great motivator towards converts, but when you really analyze it (even to what you said about how it is even worse than I can even imagine), that "Hell notion" is unjust, unloving, vindictive, mean, . . . . .and has man written all over it.
 
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