Who are the 144,000?

[Kathi]

Who do you think the 144,000 are who are mentioned in Revelation 7:4?
And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

SINGERS !

Revelation 14:3
Amplified Bible (AMP)

3 And they sang a new song before the throne [of God] and before the four living creatures and before the elders [of the heavenly Sanhedrin]. No one could learn [to sing] that song except the 144,000 who had been ransomed (purchased, redeemed) from the earth.

 

[tacdon]

The 144,000 are virgin Jewish males from the 12 tribes of Israel.

Revelation 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

 

[Kathi]

These are the "first fruits" of redeemed Israel.12,000 from every tribe.

 

[tacdon]

They are virgin Jewish males.

 

[Kathi]

So all of the Jews who are redeemed are all male or do these tribes just consist of these virgin males?

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

These are the "first fruits" of redeemed Israel.12,000 from every tribe.

So all of the Jews who are redeemed are all male or do these tribes just consist of these virgin males?

Is it written that they are "first fruits" ?

Jews who are Redeemed may be man or woman or child. Only the 144,000 are specified (and might be a translation error btw).

"From each tribe. " i.e. a part of each tribe. All the tribes had men and women and children numbered among them. (I think)

 

[tacdon]

Is it written that they are "first fruits" ?

Jews who are Redeemed may be man or woman or child. Only the 144,000 are specified (and might be a translation error btw).

"From each tribe. " i.e. a part of each tribe. All the tribes had men and women and children numbered among them. (I think)

No, the bible is specific about who these 144,000 are.


Revelation 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God

It says they were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

 

[Kathi]

Is it written that they are "first fruits" ?

Jews who are Redeemed may be man or woman or child. Only the 144,000 are specified (and might be a translation error btw).

"From each tribe. " i.e. a part of each tribe. All the tribes had men and women and children numbered among them. (I think)

tacdon said that they were virgin Jewish 'males'.So I was asking.

 

[Kathi]

No, the bible is specific about who these 144,000 are.


Revelation 14:4-5
4 These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

5 And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God

It says they were not defiled with women; for they are virgins.

Males?females? both? Men can be virgins too

 

[tacdon]

Males?females? both? Men can be virgins too

They are males not females. It says they were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. It means they did not have sex with women. Which means they are males.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

No, the bible is specific about who these 144,000 are.

.

so you mean YES then, not NO. as I said only the 144,000 are specified. >> i.e. other Jews may be redeemed also, men, women, children and not just virgins specified in the 144,000.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

They are males not females. It says they were not defiled with women, for they are virgins. It means they did not have sex with women. Which means they are males.

Not referring to what is written, but just to the logic here..... actually, Scripture says that if a woman is defiled with another woman , they will be cut off from God's people. So, just "they were not defiled with women" itself does not restrict it to males.

 

[tacdon]

Not referring to what is written, but just to the logic here..... actually, Scripture says that if a woman is defiled with another woman , they will be cut off from God's people. So, just "they were not defiled with women" itself does not restrict it to males.

It is just talking about males. A lesbian would not be one of the 144,000. These will be decent people, not sexually immoral lesbians.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

(interjection) some commentaries* point out that "virgin" doesn't mean unmarried in the context but similar to >>>
Revelation 14:4
Amplified Bible (AMP)

4 These are they who have not defiled themselves by relations with women, for they are [pure as] virgins. These are they who follow the Lamb wherever He goes. These are they who have been ransomed (purchased, redeemed) from among men as the firstfruits for God and the Lamb.

*http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Rev/Their-Identity-Qualifications

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

It is just talking about males. A lesbian would not be one of the 144,000. These will be decent people, not sexually immoral lesbians.

you missed the question entirely. a woman who did not defile herself with women would be decent. so saying that they did not defile themselves with women does not itself mean they are men, as women can also "not defile themselves"

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

tacdon said that they were virgin Jewish 'males'.So I was asking.

I was asking about "first fruits" --- then just a minute ago found it in Revelation 14:4.

 

[tacdon]

you missed the question entirely. a woman who did not defile herself with women would be decent. so saying that they did not defile themselves with women does not itself mean they are men, as women can also "not defile themselves"

I see what your saying now. I don't agree with what you are saying.

 

[His_nee (Jeff)]

I see what your saying now. I don't agree with what you are saying.

What do you think I am saying ? (I agree with Scripture entirely - I think you do to)

 

[tacdon]

you missed the question entirely. a woman who did not defile herself with women would be decent. so saying that they did not defile themselves with women does not itself mean they are men, as women can also "not defile themselves"

From what I understand you think the verse could also be talking about women being among the 144,000.

To me it is clear the verse is talking about men.