The 144,000 will be those who follow Jesus (Christians) The children as defined in Rev are those that obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus. Since Jesus is called Christ it is reasonable to assume the descendants of the first Hebrew believers are known in this day and age as Christians. God simply chooses 12,000 from each tribe as only God knows the genealogy of us all and such a choice by God I think reflects Gods promise to Abraham that his offspring would inherit forever the land shown to Him. But they (the 144,000) will be our brothers in Christ Jesus. All are one in Jesus as in one family.
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
-
-
-
Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
-
Who are the 144,000?
- Thread starter Kathi
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #42
Usually only the Jehovah Witness take this view of the 144,000.
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
You may well be right.
From what Scripture says, they won't be Christians. Not in the contemporary use or meaning of the word anyway.
- Thread starter
- #44
They are of God's choosing.I can't argue with that
I think they will be Christians who are natural Jews. or better said messianic Jews
- Thread starter
- #47
From what I understand they will have to be Jews who are virgin men.
- Thread starter
- #48
Interesting...
Well I am not a Jehovah witness. What do you call one who follows Jesus wherever He goes? I call them a Christian. I doubt the 144k will be ashamed of that name..
Randy
Yeah, I'd call that a Christian too.
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
Yes, but the title or name "Christian" is used in the world to mean anyone in any group that calls itself "Christian" . In the world, i.e., it doesn't mean they follow Christ Jesus or obey HIm or honor the Scriptures or are forgiven or are born again.--- they just have to have paid their dues to be in the club titled "Christian" where they live or where they were born or where they grew up. The difference in the two groups is the difference between light and darkness, life and death, truth and lies.
Obadiah
Member
- Dec 14, 2012
- 6,568
- 1,488
So what should we call ourselves today then? The term may be misused, but Ive never heard of a better one that the general english speaking population has heard of and understands so that communication isn't hindered. Is there one that won't get just as misused?
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
I'm "honest". When you get to the point that you gain say that truthfully, it's a good start. (and very , very rare)
"Martyr" is also a good indicator that someone is really following Jesus and not just playing make-believe.
this is totally distinct , btw, from "martyr complex" which is not Christ-like but is used to try to act or look like a martyr without being one.
but really, don't think about it ---- it will develop over time as God trains you to live His Life called out from the world's way.
other people will see what is going on - they will see whose life is being lived, and they will know and say long before you know yourself.
there are very few groups that people talk about and say "they are honest" or "they are not selfish" .... and with good reason - because it is so rare.
let alone the command of Christ Jesus "lay down your lives for one another" and "make sure other's needs are met before your own" in the body. then others outside might truthfully say LOOK > they are disciples of Jesus, as they really do love one another and not pretend to.
by sheer grace, and in God's Time, in Christ Jesus, may it be so even more tomorrow than today. amen.
Rev defines the children in this manner. Those that obey Gods commands and hold to the testimony of Jesus.
Jesus baptizes with the Holy Spirit. In order to belong to Jesus one must have their heart circumcised by the Holy Spirit. (Christ in Us) The Holy Spirit brings glory to the Son in accordance to the will of God the Father. That is the Father glorifies the Son and in the Son the Father is glorified. Those that deny Jesus follow another spirit that is also in this world (anti-chirst) ref 1John
Those 144,000 will be evangelizing in those last moments of these last days. The same gospel message that Jesus preached to Israel first. Sanctified by faith in Christ Jesus. Promotes Holiness and righteousness, Love towards one another ruled by a faithful High Priest appointed to the line of David. Jesus who is Christ the Lord and the Son of living God.
If the offspring of those early believers (all Jews-Hebrews, Children of Abraham, Israelites) remained in the faith they are called Christians in this day and age as Jesus is called Christ. The world calls those that adhere to Judaism Jews in this day and age and that faith rejects Jesus as Lord and Christ which certainly means they don't believe in Jesus's resurrection. How can one have the Spirit of Christ in them and not know Jesus lives?
So I believe the 144k will be proclaiming faith in Jesus as Christ the Lord and believe in Jesus's resurrection. In other words Christians.
E
elijah23
Guest
I think the number is symbolic.
- Thread starter
- #57
To each their own.When I read the Bible in a literal sense and do not spiritualize it I do not take it as symbolic.
Stan1953
Member
- Apr 18, 2014
- 797
- 26
H
His_nee (Jeff)
Guest
below quote from the above link: why Dan and Ephraim were removed: ((they compromised. with idols like chrislam))
the 144000 did not compromise.
they did not accept nor follow nor adhere to nor accept any other God.
"Dan fell into idolatry in Judges 17 and 18, and was thus removed:
Judges 18:30-31:
And the people of Dan set up the carved image for themselves, and Jonathan the son of Gershom, son of Moses, and his sons were priests to the tribe of the Danites until the day of the captivity of the land. So they set up Micah's carved image that he made, as long as the house of God was at Shiloh.
Also, Ephraim is missing as well. Hosea 4:17 explains why:
the 144000 did not compromise.
they did not accept nor follow nor adhere to nor accept any other God.
"Dan fell into idolatry in Judges 17 and 18, and was thus removed:
Judges 18:30-31:
And the people of Dan set up the carved image for themselves, and Jonathan the son of Gershom, son of Moses, and his sons were priests to the tribe of the Danites until the day of the captivity of the land. So they set up Micah's carved image that he made, as long as the house of God was at Shiloh.
Also, Ephraim is missing as well. Hosea 4:17 explains why:
Ephraim is joined to idols; leave him alone."
The Meanings of the Names:
Judah (Praise God), Reuben (behold a son), Gad (good fortune), Asher (happiness), Naphtali (my wrestling), Manasseh (God has caused me to forget), Simeon (hearing), Levi (joining), Issachar (God hath given me my hire, or man for hire), Zebulun (elevated or elevated dwelling), Joseph (adding or increaser), Benjamin (son of the right hand).
The Message of the Names:
Praise God! Behold! a son of good fortune and happiness. My wrestling God has caused me to forget. Hearing of our joining, God hath given me my hire and elevated dwelling increased by the son of the right hand.
Their (Mission Statement) reads as follows:
"Praise God for the gospel of Christ, a Son of good fortune and happiness. My struggle with sin and the Mosaic Law, God has caused me to forget. Hearing of the mystery of our grafting in with the Gentiles, God has reinstated me into an elevated position of ministry once again, and is increasing those being saved through Christ, the Son of the right hand."
These 144,000 servants become "firstfruits to God and to the Lamb," (Jesus Christ), suggesting that after the rapture the subsequent dispensation has the 144,000 as its firstfruits. This further suggests that at that time God will again administer His sovereign program through "My People Israel." These 144,000 servants likely represent the first crop of harvested souls subsequent to the Rapture of the Church. They are the first of many saved souls which were foretold to follow the sudden disappearance of the Christian Church. These saved souls are identified in Rev 7:5-8, Rev 7:9-17, and elsewhere.
From the book: Psalm 83, The Missing Prophecy Revealed by Bill Salus
Judah (Praise God), Reuben (behold a son), Gad (good fortune), Asher (happiness), Naphtali (my wrestling), Manasseh (God has caused me to forget), Simeon (hearing), Levi (joining), Issachar (God hath given me my hire, or man for hire), Zebulun (elevated or elevated dwelling), Joseph (adding or increaser), Benjamin (son of the right hand).
The Message of the Names:
Praise God! Behold! a son of good fortune and happiness. My wrestling God has caused me to forget. Hearing of our joining, God hath given me my hire and elevated dwelling increased by the son of the right hand.
Their (Mission Statement) reads as follows:
"Praise God for the gospel of Christ, a Son of good fortune and happiness. My struggle with sin and the Mosaic Law, God has caused me to forget. Hearing of the mystery of our grafting in with the Gentiles, God has reinstated me into an elevated position of ministry once again, and is increasing those being saved through Christ, the Son of the right hand."
These 144,000 servants become "firstfruits to God and to the Lamb," (Jesus Christ), suggesting that after the rapture the subsequent dispensation has the 144,000 as its firstfruits. This further suggests that at that time God will again administer His sovereign program through "My People Israel." These 144,000 servants likely represent the first crop of harvested souls subsequent to the Rapture of the Church. They are the first of many saved souls which were foretold to follow the sudden disappearance of the Christian Church. These saved souls are identified in Rev 7:5-8, Rev 7:9-17, and elsewhere.
From the book: Psalm 83, The Missing Prophecy Revealed by Bill Salus