Who Are The Two Witnesses?

[Shilohsfoal]

So, no, you don't have a list of how Jerusalem matches chapter 17+18.
That was all you had to say.

Your wanting me to make you a list?

lol,read a Bible.

 

[dwb001]

Your wanting me to make you a list?

lol,read a Bible.

Right and the list in the Bible does not match any description of Jerusalem that I see.
That would be why I asked for clarifying verses(or a list) that would back your position.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Right and the list in the Bible does not match any description of Jerusalem that I see.
That would be why I asked for clarifying verses(or a list) that would back your position.

I wouldn't bother spending a day making a list about Babylon. The list would be be far too long.
Im fine just quoting verse by verse how God's wrath will befall Babylon though you don't have the slightest clue as to why.

Luke 21:22-23
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

 

[dwb001]

I wouldn't bother spending a day making a list about Babylon. The list would be be far too long.
Im fine just quoting verse by verse how God's wrath will befall Babylon though you don't have the slightest clue as to why.

Luke 21:22-23
For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

Not a list about Babylon... a list of how Jerusalem is Babylon.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Not a list about Babylon... a list of how Jerusalem is Babylon.

How about this list.Jerusalem is responsible for
ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD SHED UPON EARTH.
NOT SOME
ALL.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Now let's consider that Jesus knows who is responsible for ALL the RIGHTEOUS blood shed upon earth and Jesus is never wrong.

Now I agree with Jesus,
Do you agree with Jesus or do you disagree with Jesus?

 

[dwb001]

How about this list.Jerusalem is responsible for
ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD SHED UPON EARTH.
NOT SOME
ALL.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Now let's consider that Jesus knows who is responsible for ALL the RIGHTEOUS blood shed upon earth and Jesus is never wrong.

Now I agree with Jesus,
Do you agree with Jesus or do you disagree with Jesus?

Well from the text you presented.... let's see how I agree with Jesus.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

When did ALL the blood come upon Jerusalem? With the sacrifice of Jesus. At that time all the blood of all time was in Jerusalem in the form of the Lamb of God. Or did Jesus not die for the entirety of mankind.
Jerusalem is not responsible for the shed blood, but the shed blood came to Jerusalem in the personal sacrifice of Jesus.
Not all the blood on earth was shed in Jerusalem... So your reference doesn't appear to refer to what you think it does.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Not a list about Babylon... a list of how Jerusalem is Babylon.

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Now as you know from the above verse,in Babylon is found the blood of prophets and saints and ALL the RIGHTEOUS blood shed upon earth.

NOT SOME
ALL.

Seeing the revelation of Jesus Christ is never wrong,there is but one people this could be.That is the people who are found persecuting and killing the saints when Christ comes.

Mathew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Well from the text you presented.... let's see how I agree with Jesus.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

When did ALL the blood come upon Jerusalem? With the sacrifice of Jesus. At that time all the blood of all time was in Jerusalem in the form of the Lamb of God. Or did Jesus not die for the entirety of mankind.
Jerusalem is not responsible for the shed blood, but the shed blood came to Jerusalem in the personal sacrifice of Jesus.
Not all the blood on earth was shed in Jerusalem... So your reference doesn't appear to refer to what you think it does.

If that the case then the that blood is found in Babylon .

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.


Where the blood of Christ was poured out.

 

[dwb001]

Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.

Now as you know from the above verse,in Babylon is found the blood of prophets and saints and ALL the RIGHTEOUS blood shed upon earth.

NOT SOME
ALL.

Seeing the revelation of Jesus Christ is never wrong,there is but one people this could be.That is the people who are found persecuting and killing the saints when Christ comes.

Mathew 10:23
When you are persecuted in one place, flee to another. Truly I tell you, you will not finish going through the towns of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

So you have a tentative link for one point of connection. A rather shaky one in my opinion.
What about all of chapter 17+18?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

So you have a tentative link for one point of connection. A rather shaky one in my opinion.
What about all of chapter 17+18?

You believe the word of God is shaky?

Christ is never wrong .
If Babylon were not Jerusalem ,then Jerusalem wouldn't be responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth

The only way Jerusalem could be responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth as Christ said,is if the above verse is about Jerusalem.

 

[dwb001]

You believe the word of God is shaky?

No, I believe your understanding of God's word is shaky.

Christ is never wrong .
If Babylon were not Jerusalem ,then Jerusalem wouldn't be responsible for ALL the righteous blood shed upon earth.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


Revelation 18:24
And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth

The only way Jerusalem could be responsible for all the righteous blood shed upon earth as Christ said,is if the above verse is about Jerusalem.

Matthew 23:35 as quoted by you would be a foreshadow of the sacrifice of Christ. Jerusalem is not responsible. That is where all blood was covered by the Blood.

Rev 18:24 has different wording... not "upon you may come" but rather "in her was found". In me is the blood of my father... and his father... and his.... These different introductions to the idea of "all blood" are important. "In" and "upon" change the rest of the sentence. Maybe look at that.

 

[Randy]

How about this list.Jerusalem is responsible for
ALL THE RIGHTEOUS BLOOD SHED UPON EARTH.
NOT SOME
ALL.

Mathew 23:35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

Now let's consider that Jesus knows who is responsible for ALL the RIGHTEOUS blood shed upon earth and Jesus is never wrong.

Now I agree with Jesus,
Do you agree with Jesus or do you disagree with Jesus?

Thats what Jesus spoke to the Pharisees not a City. We know this future beast will make war with the saints. We know saints were killed in the 1st century by the Romans so its not "all" as history shows.

A future house of wickedness will be built in the land of shinar. The Babylon in Rev is an economic powerhouse. Full of wealth that trades with the world and has leverage to dictate
terms to the nations. A city that rules over the nations full of wickedness and extreme wealth. Something along the lines of Dubai but even more wealthy. The nations comply with the terms dictated by Babylon and commit adultery with this future Babylon. Jerusalem doesn't have a commodity to do so that the nations would desire and greatly need and will sell their soul to obtain. I believe that commodity will be oil which will become more scarce in future years. And a nation that can supply such commodity to the world will have leverage to dictate policies and terms. Iraq has vast oil reserves which will last longer than the surrounding nations at their current rate of production. Also as noted the beast hates that City and burns it with fire and in one day it will be destroyed never to be inhabited again.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

No, I believe your understanding of God's word is shaky.

Matthew 23:35 as quoted by you would be a foreshadow of the sacrifice of Christ. Jerusalem is not responsible. That is where all blood was covered by the Blood.

Rev 18:24 has different wording... not "upon you may come" but rather "in her was found". In me is the blood of my father... and his father... and his.... These different introductions to the idea of "all blood" are important. "In" and "upon" change the rest of the sentence. Maybe look at that.

Alot of prophets,wise men and scribes still to die in Jerusalem.Right up to the day Christ comes.

Mathew 23
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

 

[dwb001]

Alot of prophets,wise men and scribes still to die in Jerusalem.

Mathew 23
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!

38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.

39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Do you have ANY other connection between Jerusalem and Babylon?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Thats what Jesus spoke to the Pharisees not a City. We know this future beast will make war with the saints. We know saints were killed in the 1st century by the Romans so its not "all" as history shows.

A future house of wickedness will be built in the land of shinar. The Babylon in Rev is an economic powerhouse. Full of wealth that trades with the world and has leverage to dictate
terms to the nations. A city that rules over the nations full of wickedness and extreme wealth. Something along the lines of Dubai but even more wealthy. The nations comply with the terms dictated by Babylon and commit adultery with this future Babylon. Jerusalem doesn't have a commodity to do so that the nations would desire and greatly need and will sell their soul to obtain. I believe that commodity will be oil which will become more scarce in future years. And a nation that can supply such commodity to the world will have leverage to dictate policies and terms. Iraq has vast oil reserves which will last longer than the surrounding nations at their current rate of production. Also as noted the beast hates that City and burns it with fire and in one day it will be destroyed never to be inhabited again.

I'm not the one saying Jesus is incorrect.I believe Jesus .
If you wish to say Jesus is wrong then that's on you.

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


It's going to be a hot day in Jerusalem on that day.Hot hot hot.

 

[dwb001]

I'm not the one saying Jesus is incorrect.I believe Jesus .
If you wish to say Jesus is wrong then that's on you.

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


It's going to be a hot day in Jerusalem on that day.Hot hot hot.

I am saying you may be confused.
I believe what Jesus said.

But what about my question?
What OTHER matching characteristics are shared between Jerusalem and Babylon?

 

[Randy]

I'm not the one saying Jesus is incorrect.I believe Jesus .
If you wish to say Jesus is wrong then that's on you.

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.


It's going to be a hot day in Jerusalem on that day.Hot hot hot.

That judgement did/will come to pass against those Jesus spoke it to. But history shows saints are killed elsewhere and prophesy states the beast will make war with the saints and as noted in the 1st resurrection saints lost their heads for remaining faithful to Jesus. So not “all”. Just as Paul stated the gospel was preached to all nations we know that many parts of the world were beyond the reach of the Apostles In their day. So not all.
I don’t share your belief that the future city full of obscene wealth and wickedness that rules over the nations of the world will be Jerusalem. I believe that future house of wickedness will be built in the land of shinar. I believe the man of lawlessness, the master of deceit, who acts in behalf of the angel of the abyss will destroy this future Babylon in one day and with such complete destruction it will never be inhabited again. Which suggests a nuke is used but I don’t know.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That judgement did/will come to pass against those Jesus spoke it to. But history shows saints are killed elsewhere and prophesy states the beast will make war with the saints and as noted in the 1st resurrection saints lost their heads for remaining faithful to Jesus. So not “all”. Just as Paul stated the gospel was preached to all nations we know that many parts of the world were beyond the reach of the Apostles In their day. So not all.
I don’t share your belief that the future city full of obscene wealth and wickedness that rules over the nations of the world will be Jerusalem. I believe that future house of wickedness will be built in the land of shinar. I believe the man of lawlessness, the master of deceit, who acts in behalf of the angel of the abyss will destroy this future Babylon in one day and with such complete destruction it will never be inhabited again. Which suggests a nuke is used but I don’t know.

You obviously don't know who the beast is that kills the saints.Jesus talked about it all through the gospel.

Mathew 10
23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

The saints will be persecuted in every city of Israel right up to the day Christ comes.It will be more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrah than for any city in Israel.

Mathew 10
15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.


As for the man of lawlessness,he does nuke Babylon .The nuke in the Bible is called the abomination that causes desolation.He orders his armed forces to place it there.It insinerates everyone in Jerusalem who has taken the city of Jerusalem.They are consumed in an instant while they are standing on their feet.They don't even have time to fall it happens so fast.The only people who can survive are those who can walk through fire with the Lord.

Zech 14
12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the Lord will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I am saying you may be confused.
I believe what Jesus said.

But what about my question?
What OTHER matching characteristics are shared between Jerusalem and Babylon?

Maybe the fact that Jerusalem sits on seven hills and the beast from the pit attacks Jerusalem at the time of the end.
Scripture doesn't show the beast from the pit attacking any other city.Just Jerusalem.

 

[eddif]

Luke 13:34 kjv
34. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gatherher brood under her wings, and ye would not!

I think the Matthew similar passage was listed. If another person has listed Luke I support it.

eddif