Who Are The Two Witnesses?

[Randy]

The beast that ascends out of the pit hates Babylon.
But Babylon loves the beast out of the sea.Thats all she has ever wanted.She even rejected God so that she could have her own king like the other nations.

At least a remnant of Israel will make it out of Babylon.A very small remnant..

God took effort to let us know the beast hates this wealthy city and will so completely destroy that city with fire it will never be inhabited again. God didn't make any effort to reveal to us that Babylon loves the beast.

 

[Randy]

It's a shame you don't know scripture half as well as you think you do. Those who are fleeing Judea on the day of the Lord are fleeing the abomination that causes desolation.

I didn't want to state anything along these lines to you as well because of the TOS and to remain polite.

I know the people are fleeing from the surrounding invading armies and that in REV the trampling will be for the 42 months of the reign of the beast. I am aware the "man" of lawlessness seats himself in the temple proclaiming himself to be God as Paul wrote. That is a man and not someone who once was and will be again and is currently bound in the abyss until the keys are given to Satan to release that one called the Angel of the abyss. So far at least 2000 years and waiting. Clearly not a man. Satan does not give his authority to a man but to another fallen angel in his same league. God has given more detail in who and about the beast out of the Sea. The beast out of the earth is a man. The false prophet (a man) acts in behalf of the "angel" who was freed by Satan in the days of the sounding of the 5th trump call of God. Both as we know are defeated by Jesus and the armies of heaven who follow Him and are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. Again 2 not 3 beasts.

Jerusalem is not the Babylon as depicted in the book of Revelation.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

God took effort to let us know the beast hates this wealthy city and will so completely destroy that city with fire it will never be inhabited again. God didn't make any effort to reveal to us that Babylon loves the beast.

Well,I said you wouldn't understand it .

Babylon worships it's king.
Lucifer ,king of Babylon.They will look down on the corpse of that man and say,this is the man that shook kingdoms.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

I didn't want to state anything along these lines to you as well because of the TOS and to remain polite.

I know the people are fleeing from the surrounding invading armies and that in REV the trampling will be for the 42 months of the reign of the beast. I am aware the "man" of lawlessness seats himself in the temple proclaiming himself to be God as Paul wrote. That is a man and not someone who once was and will be again and is currently bound in the abyss until the keys are given to Satan to release that one called the Angel of the abyss. So far at least 2000 years and waiting. Clearly not a man. Satan does not give his authority to a man but to another fallen angel in his same league. God has given more detail in who and about the beast out of the Sea. The beast out of the earth is a man. The false prophet (a man) acts in behalf of the "angel" who was freed by Satan in the days of the sounding of the 5th trump call of God. Both as we know are defeated by Jesus and the armies of heaven who follow Him and are captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire. Again 2 not 3 beasts.

Jerusalem is not the Babylon as depicted in the book of Revelation.

People don't flee from a man sitting in a chair.Come on ,use a little common sense here and forget what you leaders have taught you.
Daniel wrote the armed forces will place the abomination that causes desolation.The armed forces don't place men sitting in chairs in cities to desolate them.They have weapons that do that.
The abomination that causes Jerusalems desolation which is placed by the armed forces is what causes the earthquake in Jerusalem.It also causes a cloud to ascend into heaven from Jerusalem .The cloud is described by John as the heavens departing from the earth as a scroll being rolled together.
John had made a perfect description of a nuclear cloud rising from Jerusalem.

Well,at least Jerusalem will be cleaned from it's filth then.It will have been purged with fire.

 

[eddif]

God took effort to let us know the beast hates this wealthy city and will so completely destroy that city with fire it will never be inhabited again. God didn't make any effort to reveal to us that Babylon loves the beastI will try to wade through this mud. Being a redneck may help. Hopefully there are a few bushes along the muddy path to grasp. Maybe even a burning bush to help mental clarity,

You are correct to look at the effort of God.

It is just hard to know which city is hated when.

People tend to love involvement with the world system. Satan offered Jesus the kingdoms of the world. Some people wake up to realize they may get the riches only they are in the ditches along the path to a bad end. As sanity returns they despise what they loved, and turn to the God of eternity.

Lot leaving Sodom (no matter how well watered and prosperous for a while) might be a parallel to what the prodigal son did.

Jesus in us is the way though and not our works.

I thinks my old boots are ruined from the mud. The feet shod with the gospel of peace are better. The wretched man has to be crucified daily.

Redneck parables are really strange at times.
All mixed up with old Jerusalem turned bad and Leaving Babylon and heading for the New Jerusalem.

Put on the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Shilohsfoal]

God took effort to let us know the beast hates this wealthy city and will so completely destroy that city with fire it will never be inhabited again. God didn't make any effort to reveal to us that Babylon loves the beast.

Simple question.

Why does God give to Babylon the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath?

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Equally simple answer

Revelation 14:9-10

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

 

[Randy]

Simple question.

Why does God give to Babylon the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath?

Revelation 16:19
And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

Equally simple answer

Revelation 14:9-10

And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Note the contrast- Invaded and occupied for the entire reign of the beast (42 months) vs complete destruction never to be inhabited again
Jerusalem
But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months

Babylon
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:

“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
22 The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters,
will never be heard in you again.
No worker of any trade
will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone
will never be heard in you again.
23 The light of a lamp
will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.
Your merchants were the world’s important people.
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on

 

[Randy]

People don't flee from a man sitting in a chair.Come on ,use a little common sense here and forget what you leaders have taught you.
Daniel wrote the armed forces will place the abomination that causes desolation.The armed forces don't place men sitting in chairs in cities to desolate them.They have weapons that do that.
The abomination that causes Jerusalems desolation which is placed by the armed forces is what causes the earthquake in Jerusalem.It also causes a cloud to ascend into heaven from Jerusalem .The cloud is described by John as the heavens departing from the earth as a scroll being rolled together.
John had made a perfect description of a nuclear cloud rising from Jerusalem.

Well,at least Jerusalem will be cleaned from it's filth then.It will have been purged with fire.

This doesn't read like a nuke to me. But a cloud from God just as Jesus ascended in a cloud.

Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Nothing noted about survivors from a Nuke or intense fires but from a earthquake. I don't see survivors from a nuke in a city the size of Jerusalem.
13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

What I do reason is that earthquake split the mount of olives in two caused by the Lord. Again the same city and the same time of the end.
Zech 14
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Note the contrast- Invaded and occupied for the entire reign of the beast (42 months) vs complete destruction never to be inhabited again
Jerusalem
But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months

Babylon
Then a mighty angel picked up a boulder the size of a large millstone and threw it into the sea, and said:

“With such violence
the great city of Babylon will be thrown down,
never to be found again.
22 The music of harpists and musicians, pipers and trumpeters,
will never be heard in you again.
No worker of any trade
will ever be found in you again.
The sound of a millstone
will never be heard in you again.
23 The light of a lamp
will never shine in you again.
The voice of bridegroom and bride
will never be heard in you again.
Your merchants were the world’s important people.
By your magic spell all the nations were led astray.
24 In her was found the blood of prophets and of God’s holy people,
of all who have been slaughtered on

The gentiles occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months did not invade Jerusalem.They entered peacefully.

You may want to study those gentiles a little closer.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

This doesn't read like a nuke to me. But a cloud from God just as Jesus ascended in a cloud.

Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, “Come up here.” And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

Nothing noted about survivors from a Nuke or intense fires but from a earthquake. I don't see survivors from a nuke in a city the size of Jerusalem.
13 At that very hour there was a severe earthquake and a tenth of the city collapsed. Seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the survivors were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.

What I do reason is that earthquake split the mount of olives in two caused by the Lord. Again the same city and the same time of the end.
Zech 14
On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.

John gave a better description of the cloud ascending into heaven in revelation 6.Its seen at the time of the great earthquake which strikes Jerusalem and just before the 144000 are sealed.Here is johns witness of that cloud.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Note
Those in Judea who fled for the mountains when the abomination of desolation was placed are seen here in the mountains hiding in caves.

Jesus has stated that when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem ,that it would be a time of great tribulation,the likes of which have never been seen or shall ever be seen again.

Keep that In mind.The abomination of desolation is far worse than anything mankind has ever seen.

 

[Randy]

The gentiles occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months did not invade Jerusalem.They entered peacefully.

You may want to study those gentiles a little closer.

John gave a better description of the cloud ascending into heaven in revelation 6.Its seen at the time of the great earthquake which strikes Jerusalem and just before the 144000 are sealed.Here is johns witness of that cloud.

12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.

14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Note
Those in Judea who fled for the mountains when the abomination of desolation was placed are seen here in the mountains hiding in caves.

Jesus has stated that when the abomination of desolation is placed in Jerusalem ,that it would be a time of great tribulation,the likes of which have never been seen or shall ever be seen again.

Keep that In mind.The abomination of desolation is far worse than anything mankind has ever seen.

We are "discussing" Jerusalem. Zech 14 is about a earthquake or mount of olives splitting in Jerusalem by the Lord. Rev 11 is about a earthquake in Jerusalem.

"Every mountain and Hill" is global.

 

[Randy]

The gentiles occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months did not invade Jerusalem.They entered peacefully.

You may want to study those gentiles a little closer.

Hmm..
Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months

Just happens to be exactly the length of the reign of the beast.

 

[Randy]

The gentiles occupying Jerusalem for those 42 months did not invade Jerusalem.They entered peacefully.

You may want to study those gentiles a little closer.

That actually makes a greater contrast not that I accept your premise. Peaceful occupation for 42 months vs complete destruction by fire never to be inhabited again.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

We are "discussing" Jerusalem. Zech 14 is about a earthquake or mount of olives splitting in Jerusalem by the Lord. Rev 11 is about a earthquake in Jerusalem.

"Every mountain and Hill" is global.

The great earthquake in revelation 6 is on the exact same day as the earthquake in Jerusalem.
But since you say it's not in Jerusalem ,do you also say the 144000 that are sealed at that same time are global and none of them are in Israel as well?

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Hmm..
Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, with its worshipers. 2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months

Just happens to be exactly the length of the reign of the beast.

Bingo
Don't stop now.Your getting there.
Now look who's in the verse after that because these gentiles are not alone.They are accompanied by two other fellas.Tye gentiles and the two witnesses are in Jerusalem together for those 3.5 years.

Revelation 11
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.


How many horns does that second beast have?The one that has power to make fire come down from heaven.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That actually makes a greater contrast not that I accept your premise. Peaceful occupation for 42 months vs complete destruction by fire never to be inhabited again.

When the Israeli government gives those gentiles the authority to occupy Jerusalem for those 42 months ,it's a peaceful transition.In fact the king of those gentiles will flatter the Israeli government.

Dan 11:32
With flattery he will corrupt those who have violated the covenant, but the people who know their God will firmly resist him.

And this is when the persecution of the saints in Israel begins.

Daniel 11:33
Those who are wise will instruct many, though for a time they will fall by the sword or be burned or captured or plundered.

For the next 3.5 years everyone in Israel will recieve the mark of the beast.The saints who warn against it and preach the kingdom of God is near will be persecuted during this time throughout Israel fulfilling what Jesus taught in the gospel.

The complete destruction doesn't take place till the end of the 42 months.
It takes place after the king of the south (beast from the pit)attacks the gentiles occupying Jerusalem in

Daniel 11:40
At the time of the end the king of the South will engage him in battle, and the king of the North will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood.

The destruction is here

Daniel 11:44
But reports from the east and the north will alarm him, and he will set out in a great rage to destroy and annihilate many.

And the abomination that causes desolation is placed in Jerusalem here.On the day of the Lord when the heavens burn with a fervent heat and the elements shall be melted.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time Michael the great prince shall stand up, that stands over the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of tribulation, such tribulation as has not been from the time that there was a nation on the earth until that time: at that time thy people shall be delivered, even every one that is written in the book.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

That actually makes a greater contrast not that I accept your premise. Peaceful occupation for 42 months vs complete destruction by fire never to be inhabited again.

Oh PS
The two witnesses are not exactly peaceful.According to scripture they will be killing and tormenting people outside of Israel.They persecute Israel's Muslim neighbors for 3.5 years ,but it's a peaceful transition for Israel when their occupation begins.The Muslims won't like it though.

 

[Shilohsfoal]

Enlighten me.

I have a question for you Edward.
According to revelations ,the two witnesses kill and torment people for 1260 days.It does not say they preach the gospel ,heal the sick,nor raise the dead.Scripture does not show them doing anything Christlike even though their Lord was crucified in that city.

So why do many people assume these two witnesses are good when their fruit doesn't look very good?

 

[eddif]

I have a question for you Edward.
According to revelations ,the two witnesses kill and torment people for 1260 days.It does not say they preach the gospel ,heal the sick,nor raise the dead.Scripture does not show them doing anything Christlike even though their Lord was crucified in that city.

So why do many people assume these two witnesses are good when their fruit doesn't look very good?

Two witnesses about good
Two witnesses about evil areas
Two witnesses as regarding people
Two witnesses regarding location
Two witnesses for inner man
Two witnesses for outer man
Two witnesses for comparison with law
Two witnesses for grace
Two witnesses for prophetic time line
Then
There is a always the three witnesses that come along at times.

Not that complicated for God, who each day is like a thousand years. God has plenty of time to keep a day on track.

On the evidence of two or three witnesses shall a thing be established.
Deuteronomy 19:15

Oh sorry Edward, that question was for you.

Mississippi redneck
eddif

 

[Randy]

The great earthquake in revelation 6 is on the exact same day as the earthquake in Jerusalem.
But since you say it's not in Jerusalem ,do you also say the 144000 that are sealed at that same time are global and none of them are in Israel as well?

Its Global
I watched as he opened the sixth seal. There was a great earthquake. The sun turned black like sackcloth made of goat hair, the whole moon turned blood red, 13 and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as figs drop from a fig tree when shaken by a strong wind. 14 The heavens receded like a scroll being rolled up, and every mountain and island was removed from its place.

15 Then the kings of the earth, the princes, the generals, the rich, the mighty, and everyone else, both slave and free, hid in caves and among the rocks of the mountains. 16 They called to the mountains and the rocks, “Fall on us and hide us[f] from the face of him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of their[g] wrath has come, and who can withstand it?”