Who are What is the Gospel

[jaybo]

The gospel is the good news that God has reconciled all people to Himself through the atoning sacrifice of His Son.

 

[jaybo]

Post repeated by accident...

 

[Iconoclast]

The gospel is the good news that God has reconciled all people to Himself through the atoning sacrifice of His Son.

All kinds of people, yes.
All people ever born, no.

 

[Highway54]

I have a living hope in the Lord Jesus Christ, unlike you as God has declared truth plainly.As long as Isa 44:6 is in the bible it is you who are devoid of hope.
6 Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

6 Thus said Jehovah, king of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah of Hosts: `I [am] the first, and I the last, And besides Me there is no God.
The Lord Jesus Christ is the first and the last, The King, the Redeemer
rev1
because of the word of God, and because of the testimony of Jesus Christ;

10 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's-day, and I heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, saying,

11 `I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last;'

Jesus the God/Man is Jehovah God.
All will confess this truth on the final day, even those who are cast into second death.

I believe Jesus' words to satan sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .

 

[jaybo]

All kinds of people, yes.
All people ever born, no.

According to you, which people have not been reconciled? The Bible says that the world has been reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us.

 

[Iconoclast]

According to you, which people have not been reconciled? The Bible says that the world has been reconciled to God.

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us.

Hello Jaybo,
When it comes to most all the words associated with the cross, they speak of a Perfect completed work.
Jesus said "it is finished". When we think this through we get clarity on the words.
Let's take the word redemption.
The scripture says Jesus accomplished redemption. He obtained it.
He did not obtain a potential redemption but rather an ACTUAL redemption.
He did not try to obtain it, and fail. He did not do the best that He could but come up short.
He did not build a bridge half way to heaven and we have to finish the bridge. It goes all the way there.
It is not a potential redemption, but actual.
Heb.9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place,
having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Now plug in the word propitiation. To turn away the wrath. That is also actual not potential.
It is finished.
Jesus is the only propitiation for sinners worldwide.
That does not mean every sinner is going to have God's wrath removed from them. It means any believer ,anywhere in the world will know Jesus is their propitiation.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Now Jaybo, let's look at the fine verse you offered;

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us.

You correctly highlight the key portion...but read what you posted;
The scope is world wide
The result is...NOT COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM

Is this true for every believer ,YES.
Is this true for the ungodly at the white Throne as they are cast into second death?
No.They are told depart from me...unreconciled.

 

[Iconoclast]

I believe Jesus' words to satan sir:
(Matthew 4:10) . . .Jesus said to him: “Go away, Satan! For it is written: ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’. . .

That verse speaks to you as it instructs Satan who to worship....The lord Jesus Christ...isa.44:6 is still in the bible
Satan like you seem to think Jesus was only a man and he was clearly mistaken.
It makes us wonder if satan would address Jesus this way, if satan believed he was really Michael the archangel made into a perfect man? satan would have had that memo already, don't you think?
Satan and all who deny Jesus is God manifest in flesh, will learn for all time the truth as they are cast into conscious eternal torment into the second death.

 

[Highway54]

That verse speaks to you as it instructs Satan who to worship....The lord Jesus Christ...isa.44:6 is still in the bible
Satan like you seem to think Jesus was only a man and he was clearly mistaken.
It makes us wonder if satan would address Jesus this way, if satan believed he was really Michael the archangel made into a perfect man? satan would have had that memo already, don't you think?
Satan and all who deny Jesus is God manifest in flesh, will learn for all time the truth as they are cast into conscious eternal torment into the second death.

What did the verse Jesus was quoting say sir?

 

[Robert Pate]

Hello Jaybo,
When it comes to most all the words associated with the cross, they speak of a Perfect completed work.
Jesus said "it is finished". When we think this through we get clarity on the words.
Let's take the word redemption.
The scripture says Jesus accomplished redemption. He obtained it.
He did not obtain a potential redemption but rather an ACTUAL redemption.
He did not try to obtain it, and fail. He did not do the best that He could but come up short.
He did not build a bridge half way to heaven and we have to finish the bridge. It goes all the way there.
It is not a potential redemption, but actual.
Heb.9:12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place,
having obtained eternal redemption for us.
Now plug in the word propitiation. To turn away the wrath. That is also actual not potential.
It is finished.
Jesus is the only propitiation for sinners worldwide.
That does not mean every sinner is going to have God's wrath removed from them. It means any believer ,anywhere in the world will know Jesus is their propitiation.

6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us. Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.

7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.

Now Jaybo, let's look at the fine verse you offered;

2 Corinthians 5:18-19, "All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and has given us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting the message of reconciliation to us.

You correctly highlight the key portion...but read what you posted;
The scope is world wide
The result is...NOT COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM

Is this true for every believer ,YES.
Is this true for the ungodly at the white Throne as they are cast into second death?
No.They are told depart from me...unreconciled.

If Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God, then the whole world has been reconciled unto God, sinners and all, not just some people but everyone has been reconciled unto God. This reconciliation is not ours until it is received by faith. You will not be reconciled unto God if you do not receive the reconciliation. Those that reject the offer of reconciliation are the lost.

 

[Iconoclast]

What did the verse Jesus was quoting say sir?

When God the Son took upon himself a body of flesh in order to redeem the elect children, He made it clear that he always submitted His will to the Father.
phil2:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Russelites never understand this.

 

[Iconoclast]

If Jesus has reconciled the whole world unto God, then the whole world has been reconciled unto God, sinners and all, not just some people but everyone has been reconciled unto God. This reconciliation is not ours until it is received by faith. You will not be reconciled unto God if you do not receive the reconciliation. Those that reject the offer of reconciliation are the lost.

You are describing a gospel of works when you until you do...x,y,z,
You are describing a "potential" reconciliation.
The bible speaks of an actual reconciliation which is what the believers on here are posting about.

 

[Robert Pate]

You are describing a gospel of works when you until you do...x,y,z,
You are describing a "potential" reconciliation.
The bible speaks of an actual reconciliation which is what the believers on here are posting about.

Nothing is ours until it is received by faith. Salvation has been provided for everyone by the doing and the dying of Jesus, but nothing is ours until it is received, Hebrews 2:9. "He came unto his own and his own received him not. but as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:11-12.

 

[Iconoclast]

Nothing is ours until it is received by faith. Salvation has been provided for everyone by the doing and the dying of Jesus, but nothing is ours until it is received, Hebrews 2:9.

These are good verses, but you need to read the whole section to define verse 9

9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing
many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

11 For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.

13 And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me.

14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.

It was the elect children verse 9 was talking about.

This is the real teaching that you reject Robert.

"He came unto his own and his own received him not. but as many as received him, to them gave he the power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe upon his name" John 1:11-12.

And now of course you and all the non cals want to ignore vs13;
13 Which were born, not of blood,
nor of the will of the flesh,
nor of the will of man,
but of God.
Mans self will is bound by sin so the free will idol dies a quick death.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Now plug in the word propitiation. To turn away the wrath. That is also actual not potential.
It is finished.

Are all unbelievers under the wrath of God, or just some--those who will never eventually believe?

Jesus is the only propitiation for sinners worldwide.

For all sinners worldwide? Or instead, for some, but not all sinners worldwide?

That does not mean every sinner is going to have God's wrath removed from them.

But some sinners are going to have God's wrath removed from them? How can that be if "It is finished" meant that God's wrath was already removed from them at the time when Christ died on the cross?

It means any believer ,anywhere in the world will know Jesus is their propitiation.

Is Jesus the propitiation of believers only, and not of unbelievers?

Before someone is a believer, he/she is an unbeliever; I take it nobody is born believing. So, does Jesus become someone's propitiation only when he/she goes from being an unbeliever to being a believer--so that, up until that time of conversion, He had never yet been his/her propitiation?

The result is...NOT COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM

Is this true for every believer ,YES.
Is this true for the ungodly at the white Throne as they are cast into second death?
No.They are told depart from me...unreconciled.

What about TULIP theology's peculiar class of people, the unregenerate elect? These are unbelievers whom TULIP claims will eventually believe, and so are not the eternally reprobate (since TULIP says the eternally reprobate will never believe). Is God COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM until they become regenerate?

 

[Hopeful]

You are describing a gospel of works when you until you do...x,y,z,
You are describing a "potential" reconciliation.
The bible speaks of an actual reconciliation which is what the believers on here are posting about.

Were Hitler, Mao, Sadat, or Dahmer reconciled to God?
No.
People who hate God are not reconciled to God, because they have not taken the steps Jesus and the apostles gave us to take.

 

[Iconoclast]

HelloPM,
Thanks for your good input and questions
Let's see what scripture offers for us.

Are all unbelievers under the wrath of God, or just some--those who will never eventually believe?

All....
2 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;

2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

For all sinners worldwide? Or instead, for some, but not all sinners worldwide?

While the gospel is offered to all men who have the opportunity to hear it preached, God has never intended to save all men that have ever lived . That is a biblical falsehood.
God saves a multitude that He has Covenanted to save. A great multitude.

But some sinners are going to have God's wrath removed from them?

Propitiation is the turning away of the wrath of God. Jesus is the only propitiation for sin . he is the substitute for believing sinners.

How can that be if "It is finished" meant that God's wrath was already removed from them at the time when Christ died on the cross?

The work of the cross is perfect and the word once here, means once for all time
Heb.10 10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Is Jesus the propitiation of believers only, and not of unbelievers?

Yes for believers only. He died for the sheep, not the goats.
The unbeliever under goes God's wrath, it is not turned away at all

Before someone is a believer, he/she is an unbeliever; I take it nobody is born believing.

Correct, we are all born dead in Adam.

So, does Jesus become someone's propitiation only when he/she goes from being an unbeliever to being a believer--so that, up until that time of conversion, He had never yet been his/her propitiation?

All the benefits of the Cross are given to us at regeneration as we receive the new heart, by the Spirit. Think about it. Jesus finished the work of redemption that the Father accepted.
The Spirit applies the redemption to us at regeneration.

What about TULIP theology's peculiar class of people, the unregenerate elect?

That term is not commonly used, but From the Divine side the number of the elect does not change. We can not add to it, or subtract from it. see here;
9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

These are unbelievers whom TULIP claims will eventually believe, and so are not the eternally reprobate (since TULIP says the eternally reprobate will never believe).

The teaching contained in tulip speaks of the elect seed being effectually drawn to Jesus.
the others not elect are passed over. God has ordained the sinners who die in Adam are reprobate yes, because their sin is not paid for, God's wrath is not turned away.

Home - Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Mebane

Loving God, one another, and the world through the gospel of Jesus Christ.

vor.org

Is God COUNTING THEIR TRESPASSES AGAINST THEM until they become regenerate?

I believe it speaks more to the final state of a man as salvation happens in real time, death to life.

 

[Paul E. Michael]

Now plug in the word propitiation. To turn away the wrath. That is also actual not potential.
It is finished.

Are all unbelievers under the wrath of God, or just some--those who will never eventually believe?

All....

So then, according to you, since you were for some period of your life an unbeliever, and all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, then you were under the wrath of God for some period of your life. So obviously, according to what you've given me, despite Jesus having by His death on the cross "turned away the wrath" in the 1st century, you were still under the wrath for some period of time in the 20th/21st century, until you converted from being an unbeliever to being a believer. If Jesus (as you say) actually turned away God's wrath from you 2,000 years ago, then why were you/how could you have been born under God's wrath?

And if you, as an unbeliever, were still under God's wrath 2,000 years after Christ died on the cross, then obviously one thing that was not finished at Calvary was the actual turning away of God's wrath from you.

 

[Iconoclast]

So then, according to you, since you were for some period of your life an unbeliever, and all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, then you were under the wrath of God for some period of your life. So obviously, according to what you've given me, despite Jesus having by His death on the cross "turned away the wrath" in the 1st century, you were still under the wrath for some period of time in the 20th/21st century, until you converted from being an unbeliever to being a believer. If Jesus (as you say) actually turned away God's wrath from you 2,000 years ago, then why were you/how could you have been born under God's wrath?

In the same way that at Jesus birth it was said by Zacharias; God spoke as if it was past tense, it was already accomplished even at the incarnation.
67 And his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying,

68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,

69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;

70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:

71 That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

When we are born in Adam ,we are spiritually dead. [children of wrath even as others]
When we are born again In Christ we are spiritually alive[ no longer children of wrath, but children of the king.]
PM...Jesus did not wait for you to be born then hop back up on the cross for you.
he died once for all.

 

[Highway54]

When God the Son took upon himself a body of flesh in order to redeem the elect children, He made it clear that he always submitted His will to the Father.
phil2:
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Russelites never understand this.

Philippians was not yet written sir. Would you like to try again, or like to know?

 

[Hopeful]

So then, according to you, since you were for some period of your life an unbeliever, and all unbelievers are under the wrath of God, then you were under the wrath of God for some period of your life. So obviously, according to what you've given me, despite Jesus having by His death on the cross "turned away the wrath" in the 1st century, you were still under the wrath for some period of time in the 20th/21st century, until you converted from being an unbeliever to being a believer. If Jesus (as you say) actually turned away God's wrath from you 2,000 years ago, then why were you/how could you have been born under God's wrath?

And if you, as an unbeliever, were still under God's wrath 2,000 years after Christ died on the cross, then obviously one thing that was not finished at Calvary was the actual turning away of God's wrath from you.

I like how you put that.
It makes it obvious that there is something WE must do to take part in what God has provided through, and in Christ Jesus.