Who created Satan?

[dirtfarmer]

dirtfarmer here

Lucifer- the bright shining one, the anointed cherub, the highest of God's created order, was created as a doxology, to praise God. Scripture states that he was perfect in all his ways until iniquity was found in him. The iniquity found in him was that he wanted to be like the most High God.

When God created Adam to rule over his earthly creation, he, Lucifer, saw his chance to become like the most High and devised a plan to usurp the authority of Adam and become the ruler of this world.

As I understand Psalm 103:20-21, the angels were created with self-determination. So they had the ability to choose to obey or rebel, Jude-6, but God did not provide salvation for them. Jesus, God's only begotten, was made a little lower that the angels that he might taste death for man but not the angels and therefore provide salvation for us.

God has said that sin is "missing the mark", a deficiency, a lacking in man, not an addition to. So, sin is not living up to God's standard. So could we say that Satan is self-made by not living up to God's standard, through his self-determination?

 

[Jim Parker]

God has said that sin is "missing the mark", a deficiency, a lacking in man, not an addition to. So, sin is not living up to God's standard.

Seems right to me. God created man in His image and likeness. Sin is failing to act in a manner that reflects God's image and likeness, thereby "falling short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23) which glory God has chosen to give to man. (John 17:22)
We were made to be like God. Sin is failing to be like God Who is patient, kind, gracious, generous, gentle, loving......

God has said that sin is "missing the mark", a deficiency, a lacking in man, not an addition to. So, sin is not living up to God's standard. So could we say that Satan is self-made by not living up to God's standard, through his self-determination?

God has said that sin is "missing the mark", a deficiency, a lacking in man, not an addition to. So, sin is not living up to God's standard.

Seems right to me. God created man in His image and likeness. Sin is failing to act in a manner that reflects God's image and likeness, thereby "falling short of the glory of God" (Rom 3:23) which glory God has chosen to give to man. (John 17:22)
We were made to be like God. Sin is failing to be like God Who is patient, kind, gracious, generous, gentle, loving......

So,we could we say that Satan is self-made by not living up to God's standard, through his self-determination?

Satan wanted to be God and got thrown out of heaven. Man was made in God's image and likeness and Satan deceived him by telling him he (man) could be like God. (Man was created like God but wasn't omniscient ad, therefore, wasn't equipped to know men's hearts to discern good and evil.)

iakov the fool

 

[WIP]

The iniquity found in him was that he wanted to be like the most High God.

I'm wondering if the word "like" doesn't belong in this statement. After all do we not all want to be like Jesus? I do. There's a difference between being like Jesus (God) and being Jesus (God). My understanding has been that Satan wanted to not only be like God but to be God himself and not subject to God.

 

[Jim Parker]

My understanding has been that Satan wanted to not only be like God but to be God himself and not subject to God.

I believe that is exactly the case.
It is also the basis of all sin; wanting to be our own god.

 

[WIP]

I believe that is exactly the case.
It is also the basis of all sin; wanting to be our own god.

I agree with that.

 

[joseph lentz]

How about reading the scriptures I posted, and commenting on what they say.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
13 For you have said in your heart:
‘I will ascend into heaven,
I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;
I will also sit on the mount of the congregation
On the farthest sides of the north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will be like the Most High.’
15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,
To the lowest depths of the Pit.
Isaiah 14:12-15

• “How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!

Lucifer was at one time in heaven, but "fell" and is referred to as a "fallen" angel.

• For you have said in your heart: ‘I will ascend into heaven,I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.’

Lucifer had authority in God's kingdom, as he had a throne, that he desired to be elevated or exalted.

To me, this speaks of "self promotion" to a position of greater authority than God has authorized.

This reminds me of the rebellion in the wilderness over who would be "High Priest".

The Lord had chosen Aaron to be high Priest, but Korah and his group had plans of their own.

The rod of Aaron budded, signifying who God had chosen to be high Priest, and the earth opened and swallowed up Korah and his group alive, so that they went straight into hell alive.



Please read all of Numbers 16 for the full context.

This is the fate that awaits Satan and his angels, as well as those who follow this pattern of rebellion.



Yes there are some metaphors but they teach us very real lessons.

Lucifer was an angel in heaven, and is a son of God, as are all angels.

God is the Father of spirits, and the creator of heaven and earth and all that is within them.


Sons of God that become disobedient, can indeed end up being cast into hell.



JLB

Lucifer was not Satan......Satan was never in Heaven

 

[joseph lentz]

Lucifer was an Earthly king.
Satan is a tool created by God to perfect the soul.
When man fell,he could not enter Heaven being corrupt,and the only way to become perfect(for lack of better word) would be to overcome,and one cannot unless he is tried.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Lucifer was not Satan......Satan was never in Heaven

No one said Lucifer is Satan. (Eze 28 & Isa 14) Lucifer conspired with one third of the Angels to toss God over and God cast him down from Heaven and he became Satan, right then. And bro. this forum requires we discuss scripture, not our thoughts.

 

[JLB]

Lucifer was an Earthly king.
Satan is a tool created by God to perfect the soul.
When man fell,he could not enter Heaven being corrupt,and the only way to become perfect(for lack of better word) would be to overcome,and one cannot unless he is tried.

Lucifer in Heaven.

“How you are fallen from heaven,
O Lucifer, son of the morning!
How you are cut down to the ground,
You who weakened the nations!
Isaiah 14:12


Satan in Heaven.


3 And another sign appeared in heaven: behold, a great, fiery red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and seven diadems on his heads. 4 His tail drew a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to give birth, to devour her Child as soon as it was born. 5 She bore a male Child who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron. And her Child was caught up to God and His throne. 6 Then the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God, that they should feed her there one thousand two hundred and sixty days. 7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan, who deceives the whole world; he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. Revelation 12:3-9



JLB

 

[JLB]

No one said Lucifer is Satan. (Eze 28 & Isa 14) Lucifer conspired with one third of the Angels to toss God over and God cast him down from Heaven and he became Satan, right then. And bro. this forum requires we discuss scripture, not our thoughts.

Yes sir. Lucifer became Satan.



JLB

 

[joseph lentz]

No one said Lucifer is Satan. (Eze 28 & Isa 14) Lucifer conspired with one third of the Angels to toss God over and God cast him down from Heaven and he became Satan, right then. And bro. this forum requires we discuss scripture, not our thoughts.

Interpretations of scriptures" are" thoughts:
So you are going to tell me,that God made a mistake in Heaven?
So you are going to tell me,That GOD,who is ALL knowing,DID NOT know what Satan was thinking or up to,that He had no idea,that old slewfoot was sneaking around behind his back,whispering and enlisting a whole third of Angelic Beings,
to overthrow him?
So you are telling me,that GOD who is ALL powerful,whom could destroy the Universe with the flicker of an eyelash,was not powerful enough to take care of the problem,so much,that he had to call Michael and an Army to take care of the problem.
Maybe God was just asleep that day or out of Town.

 

[joseph lentz]

Rev.12
Verse 1 The woman is the Church
Verse 2 The Child was Christ(The Firstborn)
Verse 3 The third part of stars were the religious leaders who wanted to kill him.
Verse 5 The child was born(can be noone other than Christ from description.)
Verse 7 And there was a war in Heaven.........Paul tells us we fight not against flesh and blood,but principalities in high places(The Mind). Paul speaks of a constant warfare in the mind. Christ was tempted the same as us,only more so.The war in Heaven,in Rev,12,was the war in Christ Mind,When he said on the cross,"It is finished",Satan was cast out. There is no place for him in Christ mind anymore.
Verse 13 And he has made war with the Church since.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Interpretations of scriptures" are" thoughts:

Know for a certainty that I have read all of your post before I typed a letter of this reply. You are coming on with another gospel and that is not true, there is no such thing. Your reply is aggressively composed and if you are looking for a fight, find some young punk, I haven't fought with any of you young bucks since Nov. 27, 1969 and I regret the way I beat him to this day.

So you are going to tell me,that God made a mistake in Heaven?

See what I'm saying? Had you worded that, "Are you telling me God made a mistake in Heaven," I would have answered this post without the rebuke.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Lucifer was not Satan......Satan was never in Heaven

Have you ever read your copy of God's word through? Job explains that Satan has access to the Throne of God with regularity. And did you read the rules for this forum set before posting? Where is the scripture address' to back your absurd posts?

 

[joseph lentz]

Know for a certainty that I have read all of your post before I typed a letter of this reply. You are coming on with another gospel and that is not true, there is no such thing. Your reply is aggressively composed and if you are looking for a fight, find some young punk, I haven't fought with any of you young bucks since Nov. 27, 1969 and I regret the way I beat him to this day.
See what I'm saying? Had you worded that, "Are you telling me God made a mistake in Heaven," I would have answered this post without the rebuke.

God bless you Brother
Love ya

 

[Nathan]

Interpretations of scriptures" are" thoughts:
So you are going to tell me,that God made a mistake in Heaven?
So you are going to tell me,That GOD,who is ALL knowing,DID NOT know what Satan was thinking or up to,that He had no idea,that old slewfoot was sneaking around behind his back,whispering and enlisting a whole third of Angelic Beings,
to overthrow him?
So you are telling me,that GOD who is ALL powerful,whom could destroy the Universe with the flicker of an eyelash,was not powerful enough to take care of the problem,so much,that he had to call Michael and an Army to take care of the problem.
Maybe God was just asleep that day or out of Town.

God knew exactly what would happen. It was apart of His plan. He knew before he created the devil. It was His purpose to use him in the plan for mankind.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Rev.12
Verse 1 The woman is the Church
Verse 2 The Child was Christ(The Firstborn)
Verse 3 The third part of stars were the religious leaders who wanted to kill him.
Verse 5 The child was born(can be noone other than Christ from description.)
Verse 7 And there was a war in Heaven.........Paul tells us we fight not against flesh and blood,but principalities in high places(The Mind). Paul speaks of a constant warfare in the mind. Christ was tempted the same as us,only more so.The war in Heaven,in Rev,12,was the war in Christ Mind,When he said on the cross,"It is finished",Satan was cast out. There is no place for him in Christ mind anymore.
Verse 13 And he has made war with the Church since.

No, no, no! The scriptures interpret themselves and only a foolish person will try to interpret the Word of God. The only understanding, any man has of God is what God has revealed to us. Please get down off you white charger and stop looking for a Straw Man to run down. You will make musch fewer enemies and you might pick up a few point.

 

[joseph lentz]

Have you ever read your copy of God's word through? Job explains that Satan has access to the Throne of God with regularity.

Yes I have.And the Lord has blessed me with great insight into it. If you study Job close you will find this:
Chapter 1: Although it speaks of Job being upright,as you study,you will find that he is self-righteous.
Verse 6: Who are the Sons of God?-Believers
How do Believers come into the presents of God?-Prayer
One day the believers were praying unto God......and Jobs prayers came up also.In this instance,he "was" Satan,being prideful and full of himself,"Do what you want to me Lord I can take it". So God kicked the props out from under him.
Now study this out before you say I'm crazy,and it will take you a while. Look at Chapter 29 when you get there,notice how many I,and me he uses. And when you get almost to the end of the book,he will say,God has done this to me and finally straightens up.

 

[joseph lentz]

God knew exactly what would happen. It was apart of His plan. He knew before he created the devil. It was His purpose to use him in the plan for mankind.

EXACTLY!!!!!

 

[th1b.taylor]

Yes I have.And the Lord has blessed me with great insight into it. If you study Job close you will find this:
Chapter 1: Although it speaks of Job being upright,as you study,you will find that he is self-righteous.
Verse 6: Who are the Sons of God?-Believers
How do Believers come into the presents of God?-Prayer
One day the believers were praying unto God......and Jobs prayers came up also.In this instance,he "was" Satan,being prideful and full of himself,"Do what you want to me Lord I can take it". So God kicked the props out from under him.
Now study this out before you say I'm crazy,and it will take you a while. Look at Chapter 29 when you get there,notice how many I,and me he uses. And when you get almost to the end of the book,he will say,God has done this to me and finally straightens up.

And please, all of this has what to do with Job 1:6? There are other scripture I might have used but will you stop dancing and walk with me?