Who created Satan?

[joseph lentz]

No, no, no! The scriptures interpret themselves and only a foolish person will try to interpret the Word of God. The only understanding, any man has of God is what God has revealed to us. Please get down off you white charger and stop looking for a Straw Man to run down. You will make musch fewer enemies and you might pick up a few point.

Sorry I offend you,but I speak the truth. People believe what they do about Satan mostly because it was what they grew up being taught and never studied for themselves.There is a lot of symbolism in the Bible.Some we take physically,some spiritually.The Spirit shows us the difference.

 

[joseph lentz]

And please, all of this has what to do with Job 1:6? There are other scripture I might have used but will you stop dancing and walk with me?

I can't make it any clearer,sorry
But what it all boils down to......you could not make Heaven your home without Satan trying and perfecting you by your overcoming trials and temptations. He is only a tool God uses for the perfection of the Saints.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Sorry I offend you,but I speak the truth. People believe what they do about Satan mostly because it was what they grew up being taught and never studied for themselves.There is a lot of symbolism in the Bible.Some we take physically,some spiritually.The Spirit shows us the difference.

Not if they, seriously, study the Word of God and if they do not, I, personally, worry about them being saved because no love of studying about God, then I see no desire for righteousness, rotten fruit.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I can't make it any clearer,sorry
But what it all boils down to......you could not make Heaven your home without Satan trying and perfecting you by your overcoming trials and temptations. He is only a tool God uses for the perfection of the Saints.

That is not what I am discussing with you, so why are you digging rabbit holes? Perhaps you need to back up to my first post in response to one of yours?

 

[joseph lentz]

Not if they, seriously, study the Word of God and if they do not, I, personally, worry about them being saved because no love of studying about God, then I see no desire for righteousness, rotten fruit.

Amen

 

[joseph lentz]

No one said Lucifer is Satan. (Eze 28 & Isa 14) Lucifer conspired with one third of the Angels to toss God over and God cast him down from Heaven and he became Satan, right then. And bro. this forum requires we discuss scripture, not our thoughts.

Is this the one? ok,here we go. Lucifer was a "man"of flesh and blood as you and me. He was a King of the Country Tyre here on Earth...........As for Satan,the Devil,he has never been in Heaven either. Look at my post on Rev, 12.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Is this the one? ok,here we go. Lucifer was a "man"of flesh and blood as you and me. He was a King of the Country Tyre here on Earth...........As for Satan,the Devil,he has never been in Heaven either. Look at my post on Rev, 12.

Completely incorrect and I am being nice! Tyre comes well over two thousand years after Adam and Eve are tossed from the Garden and without Satan, that old dragon, we would all still be there and living forever. Do you see why I said the scriptures interpret themselves now? I've been studying for the past 26 year and I'm still a baby at this but you are running under your own power as nearly as I can see.

 

[dirtfarmer]

Is this the one? ok,here we go. Lucifer was a "man"of flesh and blood as you and me. He was a King of the Country Tyre here on Earth...........As for Satan,the Devil,he has never been in Heaven either. Look at my post on Rev, 12.

hello joseph lentz, dirtfarmer here

Please answer this question. You say Lucifer was a "man of flesh and blood as you and I, but in Ezekiel 28:13 it is stated : " Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God" then it is revealed what covering was. So, my question to you is: When was the king of Tyrus in the garden of
Eden? He must have survived several centuries before he became the king of Tyrus?

 

[joseph lentz]

Completely incorrect and I am being nice! Tyre comes well over two thousand years after Adam and Eve are tossed from the Garden and without Satan, that old dragon, we would all still be there and living forever. Do you see why I said the scriptures interpret themselves now? I've been studying for the past 26 year and I'm still a baby at this but you are running under your own power as nearly as I can see.

Sorry you feel that way Brother,I will make this my last reply on the subject.
As far as we all still being in the Garden,,,,,Have you ever tried to put 1000 people in an elevator? That is what the world would be today,because no one died until sin entered in.God not only knew Man would fall,He wanted them to....they had to.
We were created destined for Heaven,but flesh and blood can not get there,and there has to be a way to make us Spiritual.
And it only happens through trials and tribulation.

 

[joseph lentz]

hello joseph lentz, dirtfarmer here

Please answer this question. You say Lucifer was a "man of flesh and blood as you and I, but in Ezekiel 28:13 it is stated : " Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God" then it is revealed what covering was. So, my question to you is: When was the king of Tyrus in the garden of
Eden? He must have survived several centuries before he became the king of Tyrus?

Hi there,
As you study,you will find a Spiritual application to the Garden. Yes there was a physical Garden Adam was in. But also a Spiritual one. A state of innocence.A Baby is brought into the world pure,innocent.But when knows right from wrong and chooses sin,he can not go back to that previous state again.Same applies with Lucifer.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Sorry you feel that way Brother,I will make this my last reply on the subject.
As far as we all still being in the Garden,,,,,Have you ever tried to put 1000 people in an elevator? That is what the world would be today,because no one died until sin entered in.God not only knew Man would fall,He wanted them to....they had to.
We were created destined for Heaven,but flesh and blood can not get there,and there has to be a way to make us Spiritual.
And it only happens through trials and tribulation.

You are free to go off on any wild tangent, as you have, but it must be reinforced with scripture and the scripture address before you try preaching a False Gospel. But if you ever expect to be taken seriously you must begin to, actually read the Bible to learn what and where it says a thing.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Hi there,
As you study,you will find a Spiritual application to the Garden. Yes there was a physical Garden Adam was in. But also a Spiritual one. A state of innocence.A Baby is brought into the world pure,innocent.But when knows right from wrong and chooses sin,he can not go back to that previous state again.Same applies with Lucifer.

You not only fail to complete the rules of this forum but you are stringing scriptural truths, by themselves, together without explaining how you got there. As long as you do that you will not be able to find an intelligent conversation.

 

[Mike]

The rules of the TF apply to everyone. I'm seeing members on both sides of this issue on the past two pages share no specific scripture when refuting the claims of others. Thanks to those who have.

 

[Edward]

As a response to the original post, it sure reads as if Jesus created Lucifer...(Satan is not a name per se, but a title) Anyway;

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.../

Why wouldn't that include the Angels & Lucifer, etc.?

 

[th1b.taylor]

As a response to the original post, it sure reads as if Jesus created Lucifer...(Satan is not a name per se, but a title) Anyway;

John 1:1-3
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2 The same was in the beginning with God.

3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.../

Why wouldn't that include the Angels & Lucifer, etc.?

John 1:1-3 is exactly the scripture I always use for the base of this point in theology and I can think of no better word concerning the matter. Unfortunately, people gloss over those first three verses of John and seldom stop and obey God in meditating on them and how deep three short verses run. The Word tells us nothing was created without Jesus and that would include the angels, even the one that turned on Him and became Satan.

 

[Edward]

John 1:1-3 is exactly the scripture I always use for the base of this point in theology and I can think of no better word concerning the matter. Unfortunately, people gloss over those first three verses of John and seldom stop and obey God in meditating on them and how deep three short verses run. The Word tells us nothing was created without Jesus and that would include the angels, even the one that turned on Him and became Satan.

I glossed over it myself for a long time but finally did see what it says and the slightest bit of meditation on it was a real eye opener. 2

 

[Free]

Yes sir. Lucifer became Satan.

There is no being in the Bible with the name Lucifer. This was dealt with in the early pages of this thread. Isaiah 14:12 is written to the king of Babylon and the word translated as "Lucifer" (in very few versions, perhaps only in the KJV), is haylel or heilel, and means "shining one" or "morning star." It is a reference to Jupiter or Venus--bright morning stars.

The verse has absolutely nothing to do with Satan.

 

[th1b.taylor]

There is no being in the Bible with the name Lucifer. This was dealt with in the early pages of this thread. Isaiah 14:12 is written to the king of Babylon and the word translated as "Lucifer" (in very few versions, perhaps only in the KJV), is haylel or heilel, and means "shining one" or "morning star." It is a reference to Jupiter or Venus--bright morning stars.

The verse has absolutely nothing to do with Satan.

Most of Christianity disagrees. That will be evident in the truth that most translations say Lucifer but how could a created planet or star rule over the angels and convince a third of them to rebel with it? (Rev 12:4, Isa 14:12, & Luke 10:18)

 

[Free]

Most of Christianity disagrees. That will be evident in the truth that most translations say Lucifer

Did you study that? Let's look:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! (ESV)

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened nations!" (NASB)

"Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground." (HCSB)

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!" (NRSV)

"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" (NIV)

"How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations." (YLT)

"How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]" (AMP)

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!" (ASV)

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!" (JPS)

"How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!" (ISV)

Any other versions you want to look at?

but how could a created planet or star rule over the angels and convince a third of them to rebel with it? (Rev 12:4, Isa 14:12, & Luke 10:18)

Because you are reading into the text of Isa. 14:12 an idea that isn't there. It says absolutely nothing about angels, never mind a third of them rebelling.

Do you really think that Satan can properly be called a "light-bringer"?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Did you study that? Let's look:

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! (ESV)

"How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you who have weakened nations!" (NASB)

"Shining morning star, how you have fallen from the heavens! You destroyer of nations, you have been cut down to the ground." (HCSB)

"How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!" (NRSV)

"How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!" (NIV)

"How hast thou fallen from the heavens, O shining one, son of the dawn! Thou hast been cut down to earth, O weakener of nations." (YLT)

"How have you fallen from heaven, O light-bringer and daystar, son of the morning! How you have been cut down to the ground, you who weakened and laid low the nations [O blasphemous, satanic king of Babylon!]" (AMP)

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, that didst lay low the nations!" (ASV)

"How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!" (JPS)

"How you have fallen from heaven, Day Star, son of the Dawn! How you have been thrown down to earth, you who laid low the nation!" (ISV)

Any other versions you want to look at?


Because you are reading into the text of Isa. 14:12 an idea that isn't there. It says absolutely nothing about angels, never mind a third of them rebelling.

Do you really think that Satan can properly be called a "light-bringer"?

Okay... most notably you are not willing to deal with the other two verses. In Context the case can be made as you state it but Lucifer, the Bright Morning Star was cast out of Heaven and at the least, we know he had no good in his heart for God and a third of the other star, angels, were allied with him and all were cast down to the earth below Heaven and it is thus we get the Infamous Satan and his demons. This is one more of the foolish points Satan uses to keep God's people off their mission but this is not a salvic matter and as I always like to point out, when we all are in Heaven, Jesus will jerk the knots out of the tails of every one of us,

But Luke 10:18 And He said to them, “I was watching Satan fall from heaven like lightning. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to read on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing will injure you.

Then in Rev 12:3 Then another sign appeared in heaven: and behold, a great red dragon having seven heads and ten horns, and on his heads were seven diadems. 4 And his tail *swept away a third of the stars of heaven and threw them to the earth. And the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child.


Allegorical? Yes and it is Lucifer, who is renamed Satan, and one third of the Angels being cast down. I forget the address but Lucifer is described by the Word of God as being the Bright and Shining Morning Star. In Heaven he was a Chief Angel and I can find no reason God would not have thought, metaphorically, as star, lesser, but also stars.