Who created Satan?

[Taniesh]

Lucifer was his name before he changed into satan. How hard is that to understand.

 

[Jim Parker]

I have quite clearly never denied that it appears in the KJV.

What you never did cannot be described a having been "quite clearly" done.
Anyway, this tempest is a cup of tea has gone far beyond the point of being tedious, so, enough already.

 

[Kidron]

-
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[JohnDB]

Lucifer has come to mean Satan... Lucifer being Latin (I think... can't remember)

Sawtawn being Hebrew for oppose at root meaning and turned into a proper name we know as Satan. Sawtawn though is only used once in the Torah as a verb....as what the Angel of the Lord did to Balaam's donkey.

Baal Zebab was a Roman God of war....one of the lesser God's they worshipped...the Jews enjoyed naming him Beelzebub (really close sounding) which means Lord of the Flies or gnats...hence a later book title.

Which goes to show...
Some really do homework and reverence to scriptures trying very diligently to not go beyond what is written and some do not.

Gotta go with those who show respect and common sense.

 

[for_his_glory]

The KJV was given to our country years ago and since then there have been many translations because they determined it was hard to understand therefore these new translations makes it simpler to comprehend. Well that says one thing; if they didn't understand it in the first place then how close are they going to get changing the Bible. And apparently that is the culprit to why there is so much confusion today. Also not understanding the King James Version is saying they are not guided by The Holy Ghost because He is the one who helps us understand what we can't about the scriptures. So instead of saying the scriptures doesn't match what I think maybe one could say my thinking don't match the scriptures then ask The Holy Spirit for discernment and understanding. It really is not as hard as everybody is making it out to be. Slow down, breath, and ask the Bible questions. Besides The Holy Spirit wants anyone to ask the right questions.

 

[Taniesh]

Thank you!!!

 

[GodsGrace]

I form the light and create darkness, I bring prosperity and create disaster; I, the LORD, do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7) NIV

I create the light and make the darkness. I send good times and bad times. I, the LORD, am the one who does these things. (Isaiah 45:7) NLT

I form light and create darkness, I make well-being and create calamity, I am the LORD, who does all these things. (Isaiah 45:7) ESV

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7) KJV

I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things. (Isaiah 45:7) NKJV

I form the light, and create darkness; I make peace, and create evil. I am Jehovah, that doeth all these things. Isaiah 45:7) ASV

Matthew Henry Commentary45:5-10 There is no God beside Jehovah. There is nothing done without him. He makes peace, put here for all good; and creates evil, not the evil of sin, but the evil of punishment. He is the Author of all that is true, holy, good, or happy; and evil, error, and misery, came into the world by his permission, through the wilful apostacy of his creatures, but are restrained and overruled to his righteous purpose. This doctrine is applied, for the comfort of those that earnestly longed, yet quietly waited, for the redemption of Israel. The redemption of sinners by the Son of God, and the pouring out the Spirit, to give success to the gospel, are chiefly here intended. We must not expect salvation without righteousness; together the Lord hath created them. Let not oppressors oppose God's designs for his people. Let not the poor oppressed murmur, as if God dealt unkindly with them. Men are but earthen pots; they are broken potsherds, and are very much made so by mutual contentions. To contend with Him is as senseless as for clay to find fault with the potter. Let us turn God's promises into prayers, beseeching him that salvation may abound among us, and let us rest assured that the Judge of all the earth will do right.

Hi IT
I have a lot of bibles here. Also some commentaries. I don't really use the commentaries unless absolutely necessary. I like to know what people I'm speaking to make of what they read in the bible. I know what Mathew Henry thinks.

What do YOU think?

Can God, an all-good and omnipotent being, create evil?
And why would He?

Above you quoted:
Let not the poor oppressed murmur, as if God dealt unkindly with them.

I think that if I felt God dealt unkindly with me, after telling me He loves me and died for me, I'd be hard pressed NOT to murmer.

What say you?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

We would not have self will if satan wasn't here. Wondering I see that you are a christian, are you asking because you want to see what I know or do you not know yourself why satan is here? and I am not asking you to cause an issue just curious.

I certainly haven't been able to figure out why satan is here.
Have you?

If someone here can explain why evil, satan, or why bad things happen to good people, I'd like to hear it.
So far, after 40 years of looking, I haven't found the reason.

What I'm saying is that we don't have an answer as to why evil, bad, satan, exist.

So far, no answer.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

To give mankind a choice.

Serve God.
or
Serve Satan.

A person that chooses to serve God who they can not see, yet live their life being guided by a heart that knows and loves Him, and obeys Him... is priceless to Him.

God who created everything and can have anything... want's to be loved by a person's choice, not because He makes you love Him.

He is love.

He desires true love.

If you could see Him, it would be easy to "say", you love Him, because of the majesty and splendor of His greatness and beauty... being overwhelmed by what we see.

Likewise, just the opposite is true concerning Satan, if we could see just how hideous he is, and how evil and hatred has caused him to evolve into the being he is today, from the beautiful glorious angelic being he once was, we would naturally wouldn't want anything to do with him.

God has set this plan for those whom He foreknew, to choose Him, to Love him, and serve Him by faith, and to be conformed to the image of His Son, in this life, so... in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. Ephesians 2:7

JLB

Yes. Have heard this many times and I know what you mean.

So you can accept that God makes us go through what we go through and allows evil to exist just so He knows if we pick Him or satan?

Does that sound like an all-good being to you?

Not to me. He sounds very harsh, in fact. Putting us through all this just to give us a choice!

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

No. Satan is a real being, it's just that "his" name is not Lucifer.

I agree.
But, so, because of some versions we've come to know him as Lucifer. No big deal. Personally I like satan better, or the evil one, or the adversary, or the enemy.

W

 

[GodsGrace]

-
God created Satan and Angels sinless, and with free will.
They chose to use their free will to sin, and became "fallen" thereby.....Just like Adam & Eve.
So, we cant Blame God for what choices Lucifer and Adam and fallen angels make.
To know Right but to choose WRONG creates evil.
So, the evil is in their choice to transgress, and not because that they were created evil.
They chose to transgress and then "evil is found IN THEM"

How is evil in their choice?
You just said God created satan and his angels sinless and with free will.
They used free will to sin.
Where did the sin come from if God created them sinless?

Again, if Lucifer and Adam and Eve had a CHOICE - what were they choosing between?
Good and evil
Where did evil come from if God is all-good?

W

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, and King James said "easter".
And King James said "calvary".
And King James said "flight of the Phoenix".
And who knows what else King James said and killed over.

Doesn't matter.
If people want to call Lucifer "satan" or satan "Lucifer", so what?
The question that should be discussed is "does it matter"?

I agree. It does not matter.
All the discussion regarding the name Lucifer is irrelevant. The question the O.P. is asking is:
Who Created Satan?

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

We are always safe if we are walking in the Holy Spirit of God.
It's when we drift into the world that we are not safe.

No "Like" button.
I agree.
We are in the world, but not of the world.
When we follow the ways of the world we are always in danger of falling into satan's traps.
God is to be kept close at all times.

W

 

[Kidron]

How is evil in their choice?
You just said God created satan and his angels sinless and with free will.
They used free will to sin.
Where did the sin come from if God created them sinless?

Again, if Lucifer and Adam and Eve had a CHOICE - what were they choosing between?
Good and evil
Where did evil come from if God is all-good?

W

-
They were choosing to go against God's authority and His righteousness.
They violated both by "free will".
And this violation is TITLED ......"evil".
Evil is what its called when you choose to "go against" God, in both of those regards.
All "sin" is,.... all "evil" is,.... is what its CALLED when choice to rebel against God's authority and His righteousness is chosen by your free will.
See, to accept and abide by God's will is "good", and to chose to rebel against it it "evil"......"light".....vs....."dark".
= Terminology.
Evil is simply the <>DESIRE<> to do wrong, that is defined as rebelling against what God says is "right".

 

[for_his_glory]

Then you didn't read for_his_glory's post #71, which further explains my post #62. I just left out the detail.


It's in Strong's so it must be true. The problem is, Strong's is based on the KJV and it is the KJV which is the source of the error and confusion.

It is worth noting here that the NASB, ESV, NRSV, HCSB, NIV, and YLT do not have "Lucifer" and, as I stated previously, Lucifer is found only once in the KJV. This is significant--one single verse, in very few versions, that uses the Latin "Lucifer". That in itself isn't wrong but it really begs the question as to why the KJV kept a Latin word in an English translation. At some point, someone equated Lucifer with Satan but there is absolutely zero warrant for doing so.

Isa 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star, son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! (ESV)

Now, if you had read post #71, you would know that this is likely referring to Venus.


Or, as is the case, the passage in Isa. 14 is simply speaking of the pride of the king of Babylon and how he will be brought low, and you are reading Satan into that passage when he isn't there.

In part of what I posted in #71 was - In the original Hebrew day star, son of the dawn is used, but not for that of Satan, but for the king of Babylon. Isaiah is using this metaphor "O Lucifer, son of the morning", though not the greatest light (Jesus) to illustrate the apparent power of the Babylonian king which then faded.

Just as Satan, or whatever one wants to call this fallen spirit angel, God allowed Satan by giving him the authority of tempting the king of Babylon and the king of Tyre this is the same power he will give the beast out of the sea (sea meaning people) which is a Satanic religious system that gives power to the beast out of the earth being the son of perdition/false prophet, Rev 13. Satan has been allowed the power of temptation over men like that of Job in Job 1:1-12 or giving authority to give the kingdoms of the world by tempting Jesus in Matthew 4:1-11.

 

[th1b.taylor]

I certainly haven't been able to figure out why satan is here.
Have you?

If someone here can explain why evil, satan, or why bad things happen to good people, I'd like to hear it.
So far, after 40 years of looking, I haven't found the reason.

What I'm saying is that we don't have an answer as to why evil, bad, satan, exist.

So far, no answer.

Wondering

Hi Fran,
The closest I've come must be discerned from the reading through of the Bible and no single scripture lends itself to explain that God is allowing us to be tested. God avoided creating robots, a thing any studying person is capable of today but He created both Natural (to us) and Spiritual Beings that for them, us, to know who they are, requires testing. My favorite scriptures for understanding this are the entire book of Job. Job was not tested that God might know but rather that Job might know who he is and how far he will go to follow in service to God, our Father in Heaven.

 

[GodsGrace]

-
They were choosing to go against God's authority and His righteousness.
They violated both by "free will".
And this violation is TITLED ......"evil".
Evil is what its called when you choose to "go against" God, in both of those regards.
All "sin" is,.... all "evil" is,.... is what its CALLED when choice to rebel against God's authority and His righteousness is chosen by your free will.
See, to accept and abide by God's will is "good", and to chose to rebel against it it "evil"......"light".....vs....."dark".
= Terminology.
Evil is simply the <>DESIRE<> to do wrong, that is defined as rebelling against what God says is "right".

I know what evil is Kidron.
What I'm asking is:
Where did it come from?
See?

How do I rebel against something if I'm all good? Oh, I'm NOT all good? I'm a little bad? Where did the bad come from if God is all good how does He create bad? OR where did the bad come from?

Go back far enough and you won't get an answer.
I've stopped looking.

Wondering

 

[GodsGrace]

Hi Fran,
The closest I've come must be discerned from the reading through of the Bible and no single scripture lends itself to explain that God is allowing us to be tested. God avoided creating robots, a thing any studying person is capable of today but He created both Natural (to us) and Spiritual Beings that for them, us, to know who they are, requires testing. My favorite scriptures for understanding this are the entire book of Job. Job was not tested that God might know but rather that Job might know who he is and how far he will go to follow in service to God, our Father in Heaven.

Best answer Bill Taylor.
You get the prize.

Why?
Because, as you've stated, we don't know why we are being "tested", or whatever one would wish to call it. We don't know why evil is here, or why God allows it.

We only know that we have to accept it, as Job did, and that we could know how far we will go in serving our Lord.

Job 38:4

Wondering

 

[th1b.taylor]

Best answer Bill Taylor.
You get the prize.

Wondering

But I refuse any award short of Eternity with the LORD, but thank you. I look back, especially, to the knockout women I married because they were Easy and the tests they caused me to endure were such an education. When it came time and God presented me with a woman my own age, she has been nothing short of te greatest blessing, ever!

But I am not angry at any of them that put me in the trash bin, that was where God needed me to be until He stepped in. If we can be as patient as Job, as faithful as Job, and as true as Job, God does bless because we can be faithful and true.

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you serious.

Serious about what, God not giving this fallen angel a proper name or what I listed in the different Bible versions as that was meant only to show the variations translations of Isaiah 14:12 and nothing more than that. It truly does not matter what one calls this fallen angel as it is still the one adversary that God gives permission to tempt others, but it's mans freewill of what he will chose to do when he is tempted.