Who has the Authority to Interpret Scripture?

[Guest]

Rather than discussions interpretations - the point of the thread was to discuss who has Authority to Interpret.

May I suggest: The HOLY SPIRIT has that Authority.

 

[Vic C.]

Oh my gosh! The law's purpose was to increase sin??? God gave the Decalogue so that man would sin MORE???

If Jesus fulfilled the Law, that means that the Law's fulfillment INCREASES sin in the world!!!

What on earth are you saying?

Good heavens Joe, don't freak out! I was only parroting that Paul himself said, "The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more (Romans 5:20).

I know I'm late chiming in on this, but a common synonym for "increase" is "magnify". By the Law, our sin is magnified; the Law both reflects our sins to us and magnifies them. Kind of tough to slide past sin under those conditions, heh? 8-)

 

[biblecatholic]

May I suggest: The HOLY SPIRIT has that Authority.

He does. But of all who have the Holy Spirit who has the authority? Or do all?

since you have the Holy Spirit do you infallibly interpret the scriptures?

 

[francisdesales]

I know I'm late chiming in on this, but a common synonym for "increase" is "magnify". By the Law, our sin is magnified; the Law both reflects our sins to us and magnifies them. Kind of tough to slide past sin under those conditions, heh? 8-)

Vic,

Our sin was magnified because complicity in evil is worse than ignorance in evil. Because of our "new" knowledge, to continue sinning becomes more problematic because we can no longer feign ignorance.

God did not give us the Law so we could know how evil we were, but so that we could know God's will. Knowing God's will and DISOBEYING it is a worse sin, isn't it?

Regards

 

[Guest]

May I suggest: The HOLY SPIRIT has that Authority.

He does. But of all who have the Holy Spirit who has the authority? Or do all?

since you have the Holy Spirit do you infallibly interpret the scriptures?

Who has ever suggested that they infallibility interpret the Scripture? No man can claim that.

 

[biblecatholic]

Who has ever suggested that they infallibility interpret the Scripture? No man can claim that.

If you can not interpret infallibly please give me a reason why I should believe your interpretation of Scripture vs. my interpretation of Scripture? you believe your interpretation of Scripture to be more valid than my interpretation of Scripture, and, why? By what authority do you teach?

 

[Guest]

Who has ever suggested that they infallibility interpret the Scripture? No man can claim that.

If you can not interpret infallibly please give me a reason why I should believe your interpretation of Scripture vs. my interpretation of Scripture? you believe your interpretation of Scripture to be more valid than my interpretation of Scripture, and, why? By what authority do you teach?

Again - the only One who can - the Holy Spirit. It is amazing when the Holy Spirit brings together believers into agreement.

Why would we want to rely on anyone less than the Holy Spirit?

 

[unred typo]

quote by aLoneVoice:Who has ever suggested that they infallibility interpret the Scripture? No man can claim that.

quote by biblecatholic: If you can not interpret infallibly please give me a reason why I should believe your interpretation of Scripture vs. my interpretation of Scripture? you believe your interpretation of Scripture to be more valid than my interpretation of Scripture, and, why? By what authority do you teach?

quote by aLoneVoice on Thu Oct 04, 2007:
Again - the only One who can - the Holy Spirit. It is amazing when the Holy Spirit brings together believers into agreement.

Why would we want to rely on anyone less than the Holy Spirit?

Sorry, aLoneVoice, but I agree with you. What more do we need? The book of Hebrews is a quick read that gives us a complete picture. I pulled some excerpts from it for those who don’t have the luxury to read the whole thing this morning:

1:1God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spoke in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2Has in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he has appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

13But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make your enemies your footstool?
14Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?

2:1Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2For if the word spoken by angels was steadfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompense of reward;
3How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;
4God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?

16For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
17Wherefore in all things it behooved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succor them that are tempted.
3:12Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
13But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast unto the end;
15While it is said, To day if you will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
4:14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

In the past, God spoke through prophets to the fathers who delivered it to the rest of the people, but we have angels who minister to us and the Holy Spirit who guides us and Jesus Christ, our great high priest, who ever lives to make intercession for us. We have some of his words written down for us by faithful listeners who were guided to remember just what he said. If we had nothing but his words we would be armed with all we need to believe and live pleasing to God because the Spirit of God cleanses us from all unrighteousness when we walk in love. If we had nothing but the Holy Spirit, we could live lives pleasing to God. But we have so much more, and to whom much is given, much will be required.

 

[Heidi]

Does everyone have the authority to interpret the scriptures?

Matthew 11:25-27 tells us who has the authority to understand scripture; little children who've received the Holy Spirit, not those who are deemed "wise and learned" by the world's standards. ;-) That means that unless you come to Jesus like a child, he will not reveal himself to you. ;-)

 

[francisdesales]

Matthew 11:25-27 tells us who has the authority to understand scripture; little children who've received the Holy Spirit, not those who are deemed "wise and learned" by the world's standards. ;-) That means that unless you come to Jesus like a child, he will not reveal himself to you. ;-)

Where does the Scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit gives EVERYONE the ability to infallibly interpret the Scriptures????

Paul HIMSELF says that the Church (the various people) have been given various gifts. NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE "EYES", says Paul. "Can the Body hear with only eyes"? Read 1 Cor 12. In Ephesians, Paul AGAIN tells Christians that God has given DIFFERENT gifts, charisms, to different people within the Church.

It is UN-SCRIPTURAL to believe that EVERYONE can infallibly interpret Scriptures, or even understand it all. Thus, God gave certain people the ability to teach.

Regards

 

[Heidi]

Matthew 11:25-27 tells us who has the authority to understand scripture; little children who've received the Holy Spirit, not those who are deemed "wise and learned" by the world's standards. ;-) That means that unless you come to Jesus like a child, he will not reveal himself to you. ;-)

Where does the Scriptures tell us that the Holy Spirit gives EVERYONE the ability to infallibly interpret the Scriptures????

Paul HIMSELF says that the Church (the various people) have been given various gifts. NOT ALL PEOPLE ARE "EYES", says Paul. "Can the Body hear with only eyes"? Read 1 Cor 12. In Ephesians, Paul AGAIN tells Christians that God has given DIFFERENT gifts, charisms, to different people within the Church.

It is UN-SCRIPTURAL to believe that EVERYONE can infallibly interpret Scriptures, or even understand it all. Thus, God gave certain people the ability to teach.

Regards

Where did my post say "everyone"? :o It said, unless you come to Christ as a child, God will not reveal scripture to you as Jesus himself tells us. He also tells us that few will find the narrow road. So put them together and what do you get? You get; few people will come to Jesus as a child, so few people will understand scripture.

Then look at the prophets and see what kind of men they were; they were not scholars, or men of influence in society. In fact, they were outcasts like John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Amos, and of the NT; Peter and the rest of the disciples as well, simple people who held no worldly influuence or pomp and circumstance. "He who humbles himself will be exalted and he who exalts himself will be humbled." So read 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 to see why God chooses the lowly and despised things of the world to reveal who he is to the people. And if you're bent on arguing with those passages, I will not continue to respond. :roll:

 

[Vic C.]

Sidebar:

God did not give us the Law so we could know how evil we were, but so that we could know God's will. Knowing God's will and DISOBEYING it is a worse sin, isn't it?

Regards

I get the suspicion you don't believe the law convicts. Yes, He gave the law to the Israelites so they may know His will for them. I'd would go a step further and say He sent His Son to us with an infinite knowledge of the true nature of the Law. He showed, by this law, just how evil they were. He used it against them and in effect, magnified their transgressions.

James does a fine job of revealing this as well, in his letter, especially in chapter two.

Knowing God's will and DISOBEYING it is a worse sin, isn't it?

Since I'm no longer RC and don't feel sin is graded on a curve, I only believe what scripture has revealed:

The only sin that goes unforgiven is the unpardonable sin. Otherwise, you break one law, you break them all.

James 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

It's ok if we still disagree. ;-)

 

[unred typo]

Heidi wrote:
It said, unless you come to Christ as a child, God will not reveal scripture to you as Jesus himself tells us. He also tells us that few will find the narrow road. So put them together and what do you get? You get; few people will come to Jesus as a child, so few people will understand scripture.

Jesus didn’t say you couldn’t understand scripture unless you come to him as a child, Heidi. He said:

“ Verily I say unto you, Except you be converted, and become as little children, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.†Matthew 18:3

What gives you the right to change “not enter into the kingdom of heaven†into “God will not revel scripture to you�

 

[francisdesales]

Where did my post say "everyone"? :o It said, unless you come to Christ as a child, God will not reveal scripture to you as Jesus himself tells us.

It certainly does NOT say that! :P

At that time Jesus answered and said, I praise thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and understanding and hast revealed them unto children. Even so, Father, for thus it was pleasing in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father, and no one has known the Son but the Father, neither has anyone known the Father except the Son and [he] unto whom the Son will reveal [him] Mat 11: 25-27

As usual, you invent something that is just not there. Where does Jesus say ANYTHING about Scriptures? Where does it say that "being like a child" will enable one to interpret the Bible? You imply that being childlike, the Spirit will pull up a chair next to you and tell you what it all means?

Jesus mentions NOTHING about Bible interpretation in this passage, but about trusting in God when the Jews saw the signs!

Take off those "I worship the Bible" goggles that force you to see "Bible" in every passage and try to read what is written in context.

He also tells us that few will find the narrow road. So put them together and what do you get? You get; few people will come to Jesus as a child, so few people will understand scripture.

:P

Let's read those verses in context!!!

Enter ye in at the narrow gate, for the way that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and those who follow it are many; because narrow [is] the gate, and confined [is] the way which leads unto life, and there are few that find it. Keep yourselves also from the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits Mat 7;13-16

I would suggest you re-consider the sources of where you get your false teachings from. The "narrow" road has nothing to do with being child-like in trusting God. NOR does the "narrow" road discuss Scriptures, either! Again, everything is bible, bible, bible. These conversations are further proof that you see your god, the bible, in every passage, even those that do not mention the Bible...

Then look at the prophets and see what kind of men they were; they were not scholars, or men of influence in society. In fact, they were outcasts like John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Amos, and of the NT; Peter and the rest of the disciples as well, simple people who held no worldly influuence or pomp and circumstance.

Yes, God works with such people, but that doesn't mean only the lowly of the community will be given the Spirit to interpret the Scriptures! God works through clay vessels so that His work is manifest. It doesn't mean that BECAUSE someone is childish or an outcast, that person will be given the gift of the Spirit to INTERPRET SCRIPTURES! Is there a verse that says that? I am not aware of it...

"He who humbles himself will be exalted and he who exalts himself will be humbled." So read 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 to see why God chooses the lowly and despised things of the world to reveal who he is to the people. And if you're bent on arguing with those passages, I will not continue to respond. :roll:

[/quote]

Oh, by acting childish, that means that the "spirit" must be working in you to interpret Scriptures infallibly...

I get it now... ;-)

 

[Heidi]

Where did my post say "everyone"? :o It said, unless you come to Christ as a child, God will not reveal scripture to you as Jesus himself tells us.

It certainly does NOT say that! :P

At that time Jesus answered and said, I praise thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and understanding and hast revealed them unto children. Even so, Father, for thus it was pleasing in thy sight. All things are delivered unto me of my Father, and no one has known the Son but the Father, neither has anyone known the Father except the Son and [he] unto whom the Son will reveal [him] Mat 11: 25-27

As usual, you invent something that is just not there. Where does Jesus say ANYTHING about Scriptures? Where does it say that "being like a child" will enable one to interpret the Bible? You imply that being childlike, the Spirit will pull up a chair next to you and tell you what it all means?

Jesus mentions NOTHING about Bible interpretation in this passage, but about trusting in God when the Jews saw the signs!

Take off those "I worship the Bible" goggles that force you to see "Bible" in every passage and try to read what is written in context.

He also tells us that few will find the narrow road. So put them together and what do you get? You get; few people will come to Jesus as a child, so few people will understand scripture.

:P

Let's read those verses in context!!!

Enter ye in at the narrow gate, for the way that leads to destruction is wide and spacious, and those who follow it are many; because narrow [is] the gate, and confined [is] the way which leads unto life, and there are few that find it. Keep yourselves also from the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Ye shall know them by their fruits Mat 7;13-16

I would suggest you re-consider the sources of where you get your false teachings from. The "narrow" road has nothing to do with being child-like in trusting God. NOR does the "narrow" road discuss Scriptures, either! Again, everything is bible, bible, bible. These conversations are further proof that you see your god, the bible, in every passage, even those that do not mention the Bible...

Then look at the prophets and see what kind of men they were; they were not scholars, or men of influence in society. In fact, they were outcasts like John the Baptist, Jeremiah, Amos, and of the NT; Peter and the rest of the disciples as well, simple people who held no worldly influuence or pomp and circumstance.

Yes, God works with such people, but that doesn't mean only the lowly of the community will be given the Spirit to interpret the Scriptures! God works through clay vessels so that His work is manifest. It doesn't mean that BECAUSE someone is childish or an outcast, that person will be given the gift of the Spirit to INTERPRET SCRIPTURES! Is there a verse that says that? I am not aware of it...

"He who humbles himself will be exalted and he who exalts himself will be humbled." So read 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 to see why God chooses the lowly and despised things of the world to reveal who he is to the people. And if you're bent on arguing with those passages, I will not continue to respond. :roll:

Oh, by acting childish, that means that the "spirit" must be working in you to interpret Scriptures infallibly...

I get it now... ;-)[/quote]

Again, you are in error: Matthew 18:2, "Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Matthew 11:25-27, "I praise you good Father, Lord ofh eaven and earth, for hiding these things from the wise and learned and revealing them to little children. For this was your good pelasure."

So how do you think that Jesus reveals himself to children? Through the code of Hamurabi? :o Or perhaps Jesus says that scripture is a lie and don't listen to His or God's words? :o Or better yet, how about little children make up their own Jesus that has nothing to do with the Jesus of the bible? :

So sorry, francis, but since you deny scripture to keep your beliefs, then your belifs don't ome from the Word of God but from your imagination instead, which makes them imaginary beliefs. ;-)

 

[unred typo]

Heidi, does Mommy know you're on the computer?

 

[dadof10]

Why? Why would your personal "home Church" be any more authoritative than some other persons home church?

I was talking about dedication to one's Church, not its authority.

OK. I guess I was mistaken. I misunderstood "For which Church should we seek this council from? Obviously you should be faithful to your home Church."

So who in your opinion has the AUTHORITY to interpret Scripture?

 

[dadof10]

May I suggest: The HOLY SPIRIT has that Authority.

Lone,

I think we would all agree with the above statement. Where we disagree is how the Spirit works. Catholics believe He works primarily (not exclusively) through the Church He founded. We have the Church to "guide...to all truth", not merely subjective personal interpretation of Scripture.

How, in practice, do you reconcile two honest, Spirit-filled people who both read the same Scriptures, yet come to the exact OPPOSITE conclusions on important matters of faith and morals?

If you have one Pastor "guided by the Spirit" who claims we can NOT lose our salvation, and another claiming we CAN, how are we to know, and therefore believe, the Truth?

Jesus set up His Church for this exact reason, to guard and proclaim the Truth. He gave her the gift of infallibility, which is HOW the Spirit works.

God Bless,

Mark

 

[francisdesales]

Again, you are in error: Matthew 18:2, "Unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Again? Where have you shown me wrong the first time? Tossing John 1:1-2 and telling me that this proves the Bible alone is the sole source of Christian doctrine???

God Almighty, I pray that you help this person...

So how do you think that Jesus reveals himself to children? Through the code of Hamurabi?

Through their parents.

Or perhaps Jesus says that scripture is a lie and don't listen to His or God's words?

Where on earth do you get this stuff from? Where did I EVER say anything that remotely resembles that I think Scripture is a lie? Because I tell you that you cannot interpret Scriptures, based on the texts you toss at me that are supposed to prove "Sola Scriptura"?

Please, READ THEM, Heidi. Even a child could figure out that John 1 is NOT talking about a book! For heavens sake, again, I ask you

Is the bible God? WAS THE BIBLE WITH GOD IN THE BEGINNING?

And you are mad at me because I don't swallow that ...whatever you want to call it...? You have the GALL to accuse ME of not being able to read the Scriptures?

So sorry, francis, but since you deny scripture to keep your beliefs, then your belifs don't ome from the Word of God but from your imagination instead, which makes them imaginary beliefs. ;-)

Rather than read me the riot act, go back and sit down and read John 1:1-2. Think of what you are proposing....

The bible is God...?

Oh boy...

 

[francisdesales]

I get the suspicion you don't believe the law convicts. Yes, He gave the law to the Israelites so they may know His will for them. I'd would go a step further and say He sent His Son to us with an infinite knowledge of the true nature of the Law. He showed, by this law, just how evil they were. He used it against them and in effect, magnified their transgressions.

Sorry, Vic, I just noticed this post and it got buried among the others.

I do believe that the Law convicts in that it gives knowledge to what sin is. A self-examination will tell a person that they are breaking the law in particular categories. Before the Law was revealed, man did not conduct such a self-exam because they were unaware of anything more than the conscience, which is not as strongly "worded" as the written Law.

I agree with what you follow up with in that paragraph. I do not agree with other posters that the reason why God gave the Law was to show man how terrible he was and how he could not obey it.

Since I'm no longer RC and don't feel sin is graded on a curve, I only believe what scripture has revealed:

The only sin that goes unforgiven is the unpardonable sin. Otherwise, you break one law, you break them all.

Well, do you remember this?

If any man see his brother sin a sin [which is] not unto death, he shall ask [God], and he shall give him life [that is], unto those that do not sin unto death. There is sin unto death, for which I do not say that you should pray. All unrighteousness is sin, but there is a sin not unto death 1 John 5:16-17

Upon this explicit passage, the Church tells us that there are different "levels" of sin - mortal (deadly) and venial (not deadly). We can figure this out implicitly also by reading Paul and how he lists particular sins that give up our inheritance to the Kingdom, such as 1 Cor 6:9-10.

It's ok if we still disagree. ;-)

Of course, brother. I respect your free will and your conscience to determine the path you must take to God. I also appreciate your allowing me the same.

Regards