Who has the Authority to Interpret Scripture?

[francisdesales]

aj - what were the official RCC "opinions" (shall we say?) in regards to Hus and Wycliffe?

Who cares? It is not a matter that the Church is considered infallible in, anyways...

What's next, getting upset because the Pope didn't beat the spread on the Patriot/Browns game???

What I find amazing is that YOU consider yourself more infallible than ANY Pope ever did... At your beck and call, you expect the Church to change its faith and beliefs on a number of issues held for hundreds and hundreds of years...

Isn't it amazing that God left all of these infallible interpreters that contradict each other?

 

[francisdesales]

The greatest tool of cult leaders is to make their followers think they're too stupid to understand the bible. And it works beautifully. The cult leaders claim they were sent from God and are the only ones in the world who can interpret the bible correctly. Brainwashing can only happen when those who are brainwashed are told they must not think for themselves.

Is THAT how you came to worship a book with pages, rather than Jesus who came in the flesh? It's good to hear this confession. Admitting this is the first step on helping you to understand what God's Word actually says.

Regards

 

[Guest]

aj - what were the official RCC "opinions" (shall we say?) in regards to Hus and Wycliffe?

Who cares? It is not a matter that the Church is considered infallible in, anyways...

I care because of a quote that Aj made. I do not understand that avoidance. Historically, Rome did not want the ordiniary people to have copies of the Scriptures. The Church felt that Latin was the only proper language, and that "english" was gutter language unfitting for the Scriptures.

What I find amazing is that YOU consider yourself more infallible than ANY Pope ever did... At your beck and call, you expect the Church to change its faith and beliefs on a number of issues held for hundreds and hundreds of years...

Isn't it amazing that God left all of these infallible interpreters that contradict each other?

Really? At my beck and call?!? Shhesshhhh...

There are those who have become victims of Satan and follow lies - from false religions to false teachers.

 

[Heidi]

aj - what were the official RCC "opinions" (shall we say?) in regards to Hus and Wycliffe?

Who cares? It is not a matter that the Church is considered infallible in, anyways...

What's next, getting upset because the Pope didn't beat the spread on the Patriot/Browns game???

What I find amazing is that YOU consider yourself more infallible than ANY Pope ever did... At your beck and call, you expect the Church to change its faith and beliefs on a number of issues held for hundreds and hundreds of years...

Isn't it amazing that God left all of these infallible interpreters that contradict each other?

You have your beliefs because you think they're right, do you not? Or do you have your beliefs because you think they're wrong? :o So you must think you're infallible & are doing the very thing you accuse Alone of doing. ;-)

Therefore personal attacks are a waste of time because they don't address issue.

 

[francisdesales]

You have your beliefs because you think they're right, do you not?

Not at all. I accept what the Church says, in Scritpures and through the Church Fathers. Before I became Christian, I came to believe that the apostles were telling the truth and that what they said was historically correct. As such, if they thought that they witnessed a miraculous event and it was proven by subsequent miracles through them, I am inclined to believe that what they wrote and taught was also correct. I submit assent to their teachings because I believe their witness.

Part of their teaching is of an infallible Church that God would CONTINUE to guide to all truth. I accept this as PART of the ENTIRE teaching given to the Apostles. I don't "pick and choose" what I decide to believe. Either it is all or nothing. I try to avoid the mistake Adam and Even did in the garden - decide for THEMSELVES what is good and what is evil. I believe, then, that the Catholic Church, based on the witness of those who followed the apostles, is God's manner of calling to mankind in a unified way.

Once I accept that, I accept THEIR ruling on the teachings of Christ, not what I think in contradistinction to this authority. Part of being Catholic HINGES on this - that God continues to guide the Church. By following the teachings of the Church, I am following God's will. Not my own. That is a major difference between you and I. You follow yourself, just as Adam and Eve did, and I follow what I believe is the Body of Christ manifested here on earth.

Therefore personal attacks are a waste of time because they don't address issue.

Then why do you constantly attack other people? I am not the only one to say this, Heidi.

Regards

 

[Guest]

You have your beliefs because you think they're right, do you not?

Not at all. I accept what the Church says, in Scritpures and through the Church Fathers. Before I became Christian, I came to believe that the apostles were telling the truth and that what they said was historically correct. As such, if they thought that they witnessed a miraculous event and it was proven by subsequent miracles through them, I am inclined to believe that what they wrote and taught was also correct. I submit assent to their teachings because I believe their witness.

Part of their teaching is of an infallible Church that God would CONTINUE to guide to all truth. I accept this as PART of the ENTIRE teaching given to the Apostles. I don't "pick and choose" what I decide to believe. Either it is all or nothing. I try to avoid the mistake Adam and Even did in the garden - decide for THEMSELVES what is good and what is evil. I believe, then, that the Catholic Church, based on the witness of those who followed the apostles, is God's manner of calling to mankind in a unified way.

Once I accept that, I accept THEIR ruling on the teachings of Christ, not what I think in contradistinction to this authority. Part of being Catholic HINGES on this - that God continues to guide the Church. By following the teachings of the Church, I am following God's will. Not my own. That is a major difference between you and I. You follow yourself, just as Adam and Eve did, and I follow what I believe is the Body of Christ manifested here on earth.

A lot of "I" and very little Holy Spirit.

 

[francisdesales]

[quote="aLoneVoice]

A lot of "I" and very little Holy Spirit.[/quote]

Are you judging me or is this another of your wonderful examples of "I don't stir up dissension"?

 

[Guest]

[

It is what it is Francisdesales - a lot of "I".

Nowhere it that testimony does one read about the Spirit leading you, guiding you, or directing you. But there is sure a lot of "I".

 

[francisdesales]

[

It is what it is Francisdesales - a lot of "I".

Nowhere it that testimony does one read about the Spirit leading you, guiding you, or directing you. But there is sure a lot of "I".

Oh, excuse me, I forgot that if I say "I am led by the Spirit", I MUST be being led by Him... And if I don't say it, then He has "left the building". I am still part of the Church, the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so the Spirit, to some degree, still leads me, whether I mention it or not.

This is just another fine example of your nitpicking and not defending what you believe and why you believe in it. The topic is "who has the authority to interpret Scriptures". What does that have to do with my personal walk in Christ? I never have made the claim that I have personal authority to interpret Scriptures. I follow the Church's interpretation, as I have not been granted the charism of infallible interpretation.

You, on the other hand, judge everyone else based on your own supposed infallible interpretation of Scriptures. Have you proven that YOU PERSONALLY have authority to interpret Scriptures without error? Have you proven that you have been sent by God?

Whatever. I'm not worried about what you think about me, God will be my judge, not you.

However, know that all Christians can say with Paul

I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20

Just because I didn't say it doesn't mean that I don't believe it.

 

[Guest]

Oh, excuse me, I forgot that if I say "I am led by the Spirit", I MUST be being led by Him... And if I don't say it, then He has "left the building". I am still part of the Church, the Temple of the Holy Spirit, so the Spirit, to some degree, still leads me, whether I mention it or not.

This is just another fine example of your nitpicking and not defending what you believe and why you believe in it. The topic is "who has the authority to interpret Scriptures". What does that have to do with my personal walk in Christ? I never have made the claim that I have personal authority to interpret Scriptures. I follow the Church's interpretation, as I have not been granted the charism of infallible interpretation.

You, on the other hand, judge everyone else based on your own supposed infallible interpretation of Scriptures. Have you proven that YOU PERSONALLY have authority to interpret Scriptures without error? Have you proven that you have been sent by God?

Whatever. I'm not worried about what you think about me, God will be my judge, not you.

However, know that all Christians can say with Paul

I am crucified with Christ; nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ lives in me, and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. Gal 2:20

Just because I didn't say it doesn't mean that I don't believe it.

Francis - I have answered the question, allow me to repeat my answer.

To the question: Who has the Authority to Interpret Scripture?

Answer: The Holy Spirit. That is the Holy Spirit's role. To guide and to teach.

I am not claiming that I am infalliable. It is YOU who are claiming that you follow an infalliable denomination.

 

[francisdesales]

Francis - I have answered the question, allow me to repeat my answer.

To the question: Who has the Authority to Interpret Scripture?

Answer: The Holy Spirit. That is the Holy Spirit's role. To guide and to teach.

I am not claiming that I am infalliable. It is YOU who are claiming that you follow an infalliable denomination.

Where does the Holy Spirit dwell, Alone? In the Church, the BODY of Christ.

It is YOU who are claiming that you follow an infalliable denomination.

I am merely doing what the Scriptures tell me to do. The Church is the Temple of the Holy Spirit. She has been given authority to interpret Scriptures based on the Spirit's presence within her. Anyone who interprets Scriptures OUTSIDE of this Church, this Body, the Temple of the Spirit, is obviously claiming for themselves the Spirit.

Thus, your stance, in effect, says that you are infallible AGAINST where the Spirit dwells, the Church. When you interpret the Scriptures in contradistinction against the Church's interpretations, you deny the Scriptures themselves and set yourself up as an infallible interpreter.

Where does the Bible give YOU PERSONALLY this authority? Sounds like another "tradition of men"

Regards

 

[Guest]

1 Cor. 6:19

This refers to the individual.

 

[francisdesales]

1 Cor. 6:19

This refers to the individual.

The context refers to the Body of Christ, made up of individual believers. There are not 100 Holy Spirits running around independently of each other, telling each believer different ways of interpreting Scriptures.

There is clearly only ONE Temple, not thousands, in this context - the Body of Believers. The Body of believers is the Church united as one man in Christ.

Regards

 

[Guest]

1 Cor. 6:19

This refers to the individual.

The context refers to the Body of Christ, made up of individual believers. There are not 100 Holy Spirits running around independently of each other, telling each believer different ways of interpreting Scriptures.

There is clearly only ONE Temple, not thousands, in this context - the Body of Believers. The Body of believers is the Church united as one man in Christ.

Regards

You cannot be more wrong, francis.

Verse 15 - Do you now know that your bodies (individual bodies) are members of Christ?

Paul goes on to say that we need to flee immorality, that we (individuals) are to be joined with Christ.

Verse 19 - "your body (again, individual) is a (note not "the)temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you (again, individual), who you have from God, and that you are not your own (again, individual)?

Verse 20 - For you (individual) have been brought with a price; therefore glorify God in your (again idividual) body.

Yes, the Holy Spirit resides in ALL born again believers. The issue is that not everyone LISTENS or SUBMITS to the Holy Spirit.

 

[francisdesales]

You cannot be more wrong, francis.

Sure I could. I could believe that everyone has the AUTHORITY to interpret Scriptures correctly. That is the OP of this thread. Can you show me from Scriptures that the typical Christian has AUTHORITY to do this?

As to the "many temples of the Holy Spirit", you are going beyond what the Scriptures say. We are as cells in the Body. It is while we are part of the Body that we possess the Spirit. We don't have the Spirit while separate from the Body, which is the implication of your statements.

There is ONE Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Church, the community of believers. We possess the Spirit as long as we abide within this Body, this community of believers. Paul is not writing to individuals in Corinth, but the ENTIRE community.

 

[Guest]

You cannot be more wrong, francis.

Sure I could. I could believe that everyone has the AUTHORITY to interpret Scriptures correctly. That is the OP of this thread. Can you show me from Scriptures that the typical Christian has AUTHORITY to do this?

As to the "many temples of the Holy Spirit", you are going beyond what the Scriptures say. We are as cells in the Body. It is while we are part of the Body that we possess the Spirit. We don't have the Spirit while separate from the Body, which is the implication of your statements.

There is ONE Temple of the Holy Spirit. The Church, the community of believers. We possess the Spirit as long as we abide within this Body, this community of believers. Paul is not writing to individuals in Corinth, but the ENTIRE community.

Where is the evidence from the passage that Paul is referring to the Church and not individuals?

 

[dadof10]

Does that answer your question? If not, I'll try again. :-D

Yes, it does. The way you phrased your post had me a little confused (not your problem, mine).

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be saying, in a nutshell, you read and interpret Scripture and use your conscience as guide. Is this about right?

If I've got it right, where does Scripture teach this concept and does Scripture even have to teach all true doctrine?

 

[Heidi]

Does that answer your question? If not, I'll try again. :-D

Yes, it does. The way you phrased your post had me a little confused (not your problem, mine).

I don't want to put words in your mouth, but you seem to be saying, in a nutshell, you read and interpret Scripture and use your conscience as guide. Is this about right?

If I've got it right, where does Scripture teach this concept and does Scripture even have to teach all true doctrine?

Do you know why the temple curtain tore in half at Christ's crucifixion? Do you know who used to be the only ones allowed to enter the temple? Can you now explain to whom the temple is now open and why?

The answer is that now all born again Christians have direct access to the temple (which is now Jesus) without having to go through priests. So 1 Corinthians 2:15 answers your question; "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment. For who has known the mind of the Lord to instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

That means that anyone who becomes born again of indwelling Holy Spirit is qualified to understand scripture because he has the mind of Christ.

So no, we don't go through priests any more to communicate with God. We go diresctly to Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit and Jesus answers us through scripture. Period. :D

 

[francisdesales]

So no, we don't go through priests any more to communicate with God. We go diresctly to Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit and Jesus answers us through scripture. Period. :D

Sure. :P :P

That is why so many people "indwelt with the Spirit" cannot agree on practically ANYTHING in the Bible... Either you are misunderstanding what Paul is writing, or there are numerous "spirits" telling you different things, because there is ONLY ONE Truth - found where? "the pillar and foundation of the truth" is the Church.

Regards

 

[Guest]

So no, we don't go through priests any more to communicate with God. We go diresctly to Jesus through the indwelling Holy Spirit and Jesus answers us through scripture. Period. :D

Sure. :P :P

That is why so many people "indwelt with the Spirit" cannot agree on practically ANYTHING in the Bible... Either you are misunderstanding what Paul is writing, or there are numerous "spirits" telling you different things, because there is ONLY ONE Truth - found where? "the pillar and foundation of the truth" is the Church.

Regards

Actually, the Truth is found with and in GOD.

Interesting how the "church" (ie: Roman Catholicism) claims to "have" the Truth, but does not ACT out the Truth - yet that is what they (the RCC) complain about against Protestants.

Oh well.. I guess it is "do as I say, not as I do".