Who is Mystery Babylon ?

[Stormcrow]

It is an inner matter, as all spiritual matters are.

This is as ridiculous an assertion as is Elijah's point that Mystery Babylon is the RCC, because it ignores all the other attributes presented as evidenced regarding its identity. Do yourself a favor: get a concordance and look up all the references in the OT that use the same language to describe Jerusalem and Israel's idolatry. That's where the answer to this issue is found.

 

[Lehigh3]

of course stormcrow & francesdesales are correct!
Rev.17,

"One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me, "Come, I will show you the punishment of the great prostitute, who sits on many waters. 2With her the kings of the earth committed adultery and the inhabitants of the earth were intoxicated with the wine of her adulteries."
3Then the angel carried me away in the Spirit into a desert. There I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet beast that was covered with blasphemous names and had seven heads and ten horns. 4The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries. 5This title was written on her forehead:
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of those who bore testimony to Jesus.
When I saw her, I was greatly astonished. 7Then the angel said to me: "Why are you astonished? I will explain to you the mystery of the woman and of the beast she rides, which has the seven heads and ten horns. 8The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come.
9"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for a little while. 11The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction."
The women is Jerusalem. The beast is Rome (which contains the 7 hills), on which the women sits. The picture is stating that Jerusalem was in bed with Rome, thus the label of a prostitute.
Anyway, the label:
"MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS
AND OF THE ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH"

 

[smaller]

This is as ridiculous an assertion as is Elijah's point that Mystery Babylon is the RCC, because it ignores all the other attributes presented as evidenced regarding its identity. Do yourself a favor: get a concordance and look up all the references in the OT that use the same language to describe Jerusalem and Israel's idolatry. That's where the answer to this issue is found.

Ah, another physical city dude. So what else is new?

Jes so ya know, Jerusalem already has a 'spiritual' name and it ain't Mystery Babylon.

All Gods people are called out of M. Babylon, and I presume you ain't in the physical city of Jerusalem, as few believers are.

But that sentiment runs pretty hot, specially in the anti-semetic crowds.

s

 

[Lehigh3]

Ah, another physical city dude. So what else is new?

Jes so ya know, Jerusalem already has a 'spiritual' name and it ain't Mystery Babylon.

All Gods people are called out of M. Babylon, and I presume you ain't in the physical city of Jerusalem, as few believers are.

But that sentiment runs pretty hot, specially in the anti-semetic crowds.

s

You simply have to come up with a maturer & more educated answer than the anti semitic droll.

 

[jasoncran]

Ah, another physical city dude. So what else is new?

Jes so ya know, Jerusalem already has a 'spiritual' name and it ain't Mystery Babylon.

All Gods people are called out of M. Babylon, and I presume you ain't in the physical city of Jerusalem, as few believers are.

But that sentiment runs pretty hot, specially in the anti-semetic crowds.

s

its not anti-semitic to say that. jews then did fornicate and commit adultery with false religions surely that vision of tammuz worship in the temple wasnt anti-semitic.


why would God call jerusalem in revalation spiritual sodom and gommorah? that says some harsh things in context. if you dont like it take it up with GOD.

 

[Elijah674]

its not anti-semitic to say that. jews then did fornicate and commit adultery with false religions surely that vision of tammuz worship in the temple wasnt anti-semitic.


why would God call jerusalem in revalation spiritual sodom and gommorah? that says some harsh things in context. if you dont like it take it up with GOD.

How about quoting the above verse?? (K.J. or Douay)

Show one place that the Doctrin's of Israel are [ever] called false Doctrines or of babylon! Even note Matt. 23:3 Command of Christ! + Isa. 5:1-4, Psalms 77:13, Exod. 25:8-9. (and that sure ain't satan's church's of Rev. 17:1-5)

Then find one doctrine of rome that is not pagan, OR that is not THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as Inspiration has it.

--Elijah

 

[jasoncran]

How about quoting the above verse?? (K.J. or Douay)

Show one place that the Doctrin's of Israel are [ever] called false Doctrines or of babylon! Even note Matt. 23:3 Command of Christ! + Isa. 5:1-4, Psalms 77:13, Exod. 25:8-9. (and that sure ain't satan's church's of Rev. 17:1-5)

Then find one doctrine of rome that is not pagan, OR that is not THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as Inspiration has it.

--Elijah

easily.

revalation 11:8

And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified


dead giveway there and here on tammuz in the temple as women weeped for tammuz.


Ezekiel 8


1And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
7And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
13He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
17Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. 18Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them

 

[Stormcrow]

Show one place that the Doctrin's of Israel are [ever] called false Doctrines or of babylon!

This isn't about the "Doctrin's of Israel" (whatever those are. I assume you mean the Mosaic Covenant .

This issue is really very simple to understand.

Was Jesus sent to the Jews of His day as the "New Covenant" or not?

Did the Jews of His day reject Jesus as Messiah and, in so doing, reject the New Covenant God tried to make with them or not?

Did God promise what would happen to them if they broke His covenant and acted with hostility toward Him (Leviticus 26) or not?

In rejecting Christ - the only covenant for the salvation of man that God would henceforth honor - did the Jews of Jesus' day not say, at His trial, that they had "no king but Caesar?" Wouldn't that be the definition of idolatry in God's eyes???

I really don't understand why people can't see this!

So here's a little light reading assignment. Read these passages in order:

Leviticus 26:14-32. This is the chapter dealing with the penalties of the Mosaic Covenant for breaking God's Law.

Isaiah 42:6-7. this is the promise of Christ's first coming as the New Covenant. Note this phrase: "I will appoint You as a covenant to the people, As a light to the nations..." Christ Himself was to be the New Covenant!

Then read this: Matthew 26: 26-29. Christ confirms the covenant with "the many" and commemorates it with His last Passover Seder, giving new meaning to it.

Next read this: Isaiah 53. Nothing more should have to be stated about this chapter!

Next, read the following parables and understand He was telling the Chief Priests, Scribes, and Pharisees they were going to lose the kingdom God had given them:

Parable of the two sons: Matt. 21:28-32
Parable of the landowner: Matt. 21:33-46
Parable of the marriage feast: Matt. 22:1-14

Next, read Matthew 23, focusing on verses 34-39.

And finally, read Matthew 23:34-39 in the context of Jerusalem's idolatry for rejecting Christ as indicated in Revelation 17 and 18, paying particular attention to this verse:

{24} "And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." Revelation 18:24 (NASB)

And what did Christ say in Matthew 23 again???

{35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Matthew 23:35 (NASB)

John couldn't have made the identity of Mystery Babylon any clearer than he did unless he had just simply written "it's Jerusalem!"

It doesn't get any plainer or simpler than this!

 

[Stormcrow]

But that sentiment runs pretty hot, specially in the anti-semetic crowds.

Ironically, not one member here has written of any hatred of the Jews. What happened to them regarding the events of Revelation is completely in the past. It's over.

You, however, continue to spew anti-Catholic venom with every screed you post. So tell me: who's the hater here?

 

[jasoncran]

yup this catholic really hates christ. mat maher a catholic singing christ is risen. death oh where is they sting.
[video=youtube;E2KNvuscKRA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E2KNvuscKRA[/video]

imagane that.

and with lyrics[video=youtube;jW6LOsslU2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jW6LOsslU2M&NR=1[/video]

 

[savedbygrace57]

Mystery Babylon is also the Mystery of Iniquity that Paul mentions here.

2 Thess 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

It began with cain and his self righteous works religion opposed to God revealed Religion in and through Jesus Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Who is Mystery Babylon ?

Originally Posted by Elijah674
How about quoting the above verse?? (K.J. or Douay)

Show one place that the Doctrin's of Israel are [ever] called false Doctrines or of babylon! Even note Matt. 23:3 Command of Christ! + Isa. 5:1-4, Psalms 77:13, Exod. 25:8-9. (and that sure ain't satan's church's of Rev. 17:1-5)

Then find one doctrine of rome that is not pagan, OR that is not THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as Inspiration has it.

--Elijah

And you say.. [easily.]

revalation 11:8

And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified


dead giveway there and here on tammuz in the temple as women weeped for tammuz.


Ezekiel 8


1And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
7And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
13He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
17Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. 18Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them




________

Me again!
You best read slower! In all of that Truth, where does Inspiration say that Christ's Virgin Doctrine's are of babylon???????

See Isa. 5:1-5 for the problem! (verse 3 is crucial! + verse 7's HOUSE) Never is Christ's VIRGIN DOCTRINAL HOUSE CALLED babylon.

And yes, Matt. 10:15 finds some that were inside the house (leadership) to be judged by far the worse than even S. & G., but THEY ARE NOT S.& G. nor are their DOCTRINES 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH'! And rome's ARE!

Even note Christ's Words of Matt. 23:3 for the problem as He (Christ) documented! Do as they teach, huh? but not as the DO, for they say, and DO NOT, is the bottom/line!

--Elijah
​

 

[jasoncran]

Re: Who is Mystery Babylon ?

Originally Posted by Elijah674
How about quoting the above verse?? (K.J. or Douay)

Show one place that the Doctrin's of Israel are [ever] called false Doctrines or of babylon! Even note Matt. 23:3 Command of Christ! + Isa. 5:1-4, Psalms 77:13, Exod. 25:8-9. (and that sure ain't satan's church's of Rev. 17:1-5)

Then find one doctrine of rome that is not pagan, OR that is not THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH as Inspiration has it.

--Elijah

And you say.. [easily.]

revalation 11:8

And their dead bodies [shall lie] in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified


dead giveway there and here on tammuz in the temple as women weeped for tammuz.


Ezekiel 8


1And it came to pass in the sixth year, in the sixth month, in the fifth day of the month, as I sat in mine house, and the elders of Judah sat before me, that the hand of the Lord GOD fell there upon me.
2Then I beheld, and lo a likeness as the appearance of fire: from the appearance of his loins even downward, fire; and from his loins even upward, as the appearance of brightness, as the colour of amber.
3And he put forth the form of an hand, and took me by a lock of mine head; and the spirit lifted me up between the earth and the heaven, and brought me in the visions of God to Jerusalem, to the door of the inner gate that looketh toward the north; where was the seat of the image of jealousy, which provoketh to jealousy.
4And, behold, the glory of the God of Israel was there, according to the vision that I saw in the plain.
5Then said he unto me, Son of man, lift up thine eyes now the way toward the north. So I lifted up mine eyes the way toward the north, and behold northward at the gate of the altar this image of jealousy in the entry.
6He said furthermore unto me, Son of man, seest thou what they do? even the great abominations that the house of Israel committeth here, that I should go far off from my sanctuary? but turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations.
7And he brought me to the door of the court; and when I looked, behold a hole in the wall.
8Then said he unto me, Son of man, dig now in the wall: and when I had digged in the wall, behold a door.
9And he said unto me, Go in, and behold the wicked abominations that they do here.
10So I went in and saw; and behold every form of creeping things, and abominable beasts, and all the idols of the house of Israel, pourtrayed upon the wall round about.
11And there stood before them seventy men of the ancients of the house of Israel, and in the midst of them stood Jaazaniah the son of Shaphan, with every man his censer in his hand; and a thick cloud of incense went up.
12Then said he unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen what the ancients of the house of Israel do in the dark, every man in the chambers of his imagery? for they say, the LORD seeth us not; the LORD hath forsaken the earth.
13He said also unto me, Turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations that they do.
14Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the LORD's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.
15Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? turn thee yet again, and thou shalt see greater abominations than these.
16And he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.
17Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. 18Therefore will I also deal in fury: mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: and though they cry in mine ears with a loud voice, yet will I not hear them




________

Me again!
You best read slower! In all of that Truth, where does Inspiration say that Christ's Virgin Doctrine's are of babylon???????

See Isa. 5:1-5 for the problem! (verse 3 is crucial! + verse 7's HOUSE) Never is Christ's VIRGIN DOCTRINAL HOUSE CALLED babylon.

And yes, Matt. 10:15 finds some that were inside the house (leadership) to be judged by far the worse than even S. & G., but THEY ARE NOT S.& G. nor are their DOCTRINES 'THE ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH'! And rome's ARE!

Even note Christ's Words of Matt. 23:3 for the problem as He (Christ) documented! Do as they teach, huh? but not as the DO, for they say, and DO NOT, is the bottom/line!

--Elijah
​

you miss the point, that is to the jews of then and only then.

DID the catholic church you hate exist in the time of revalation? was there a pope then? if not how then would they now that the rcc is the one? or if so how then or why then dont you distrust your bible. egw wasnt alive then nor even born. yet she uses a variation of the VULGATE a CATHOLIC BIBLE as the kjv and tyndale borrowed from that list of books that are canon. so then which bible is corrupted both the vulgate and the one that augustine made?

if you remove the apochypra then you have the exact same bible!!!!!!!!!!!!!!from agustines bible. agian both jerome and agustine were evil catholics according to you. one cant just ignore the first audience of any bible book otherwise GOD IS CRUEL as he just let them be in ignorance!

 

[smaller]

its not anti-semitic to say that. jews then did fornicate and commit adultery with false religions surely that vision of tammuz worship in the temple wasnt anti-semitic.

Oh please Jason. What believer or unbeliever hasn't fornicated at a minimum in their minds? One sinner calling another class of people sinners and then making same M. Babylon is what it is.

why would God call jerusalem in revalation spiritual sodom and gommorah? that says some harsh things in context. if you dont like it take it up with GOD.

It's Sodom and Egypt and they are spiritual terms just as M. Babylon is a spiritual term.

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The matter of M. Babylon has nothing to do with the physical city of Jerusalem. It is just as shown above, a spiritual matter as previously noted.

In the vein of harlotry in general, we are all harlots in our sin. That's also why the city is associated with a woman.

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Does anyone in their 'right' mind think they can travel to the city of Jerusalem (or ROME,) find a forehead on that physical city and see the name above inscribed there upon?

Obviously NOT. Which again relegates this matter and all matters of Revelation to spiritual understandings. Most are not equipped to have a studied conversation about any of those terms, and particularly so when they can only look at physical cities or other 'sects' of Christianity. It's a much more broad based observation than just that.

enjoy!

s

 

[smaller]

Mystery Babylon is also the Mystery of Iniquity that Paul mentions here.

2 Thess 2:7

For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

It began with cain and his self righteous works religion opposed to God revealed Religion in and through Jesus Christ the Lamb slain from the foundation Rev 13:8.

Brilliant!

I don't agree with many of your positions but you are spot on so to speak with that observation.

Let's face some facts about M. Babylon.

The 'battles' the 'whole earth' are engaged in are factually with the powers of darkness and spiritual wickedness. This matter has 'encompassed' the 'whole earth' and all the inhabitants thereof and CONFUSED us all. That is why believers in general can't have a coherent discussion about these subjects. We all suffer from the effects of SIN, the working therein 'in us all' is hatred of our neighbors.

Such hatred of neighbors in any Christian only means that they too continue to reside 'in their minds and hearts' in M. Babylon and have not 'come out of her' in the Victory of our Lord who Is Love.

s

 

[reba]

What church, put the doctrine of the trinity in writing?

 

[smaller]

Ironically, not one member here has written of any hatred of the Jews. What happened to them regarding the events of Revelation is completely in the past. It's over.

You, however, continue to spew anti-Catholic venom with every screed you post. So tell me: who's the hater here?

Anti-catholic? Surely you jest. I believe every single catholic, even of the RCC variety is saved to the uttermost from sin by the death and Life of Christ regardless of the errors of sin.

And I extend that understanding to all my fellow believers, providing the benefit of the doubt, as I would have extended to me.

So please put away the falsehood you are attempting to pin on me as it does not exist.

Discussions of these or even doctrinal matters are one thing. When those discussions transition to believers condemning believers, such people are and remain captives of M. Babylon and they don't even know it. I do not practice the latter with anyone

enjoy!

smaller

 

[jasoncran]

Oh please Jason. What believer or unbeliever hasn't fornicated at a minimum in their minds? One sinner calling another class of people sinners and then making same M. Babylon is what it is.

It's Sodom and Egypt and they are spiritual terms just as M. Babylon is a spiritual term.

Revelation 11:8
And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

The matter of M. Babylon has nothing to do with the physical city of Jerusalem. It is just as shown above, a spiritual matter as previously noted.

In the vein of harlotry in general, we are all harlots in our sin. That's also why the city is associated with a woman.

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Does anyone in their 'right' mind think they can travel to the city of Jerusalem (or ROME,) find a forehead on that physical city and see the name above inscribed there upon?

Obviously NOT. Which again relegates this matter and all matters of Revelation to spiritual understandings. Most are not equipped to have a studied conversation about any of those terms, and particularly so when they can only look at physical cities or other 'sects' of Christianity. It's a much more broad based observation than just that.

enjoy!

s

if you ever had to actually understand why the lord called the jews in that city jerusalem you would agree . why also would the bible delineate a physical city. where the sanhedrin are located. and i am suporting what stormcrow says on what ad 70 in part said happened.

ah yes you believe in the heresy of jews and muslims and christians being united in heaven if they somehow love "GOD" enough. sorry allah isnt our God. neither while very close will the jew be acceptated if he doesnt repent and believe in the messiah.

once agian post what the jews of TODAY say on other faiths. i'll will give you a hint.as i have heard quite a few say it. GOD is in all faiths and can be reached by all faiths. while in general not all rabbis teach this but many of the "jews" accept this. what does that mean?would God bless that? NO.while i cant say that is true on all jews but from my conversations with jews in my family being so liberal and also others that is large possibility. i have yet to meet a real devout torah/tanakh believing jew that states jews alone have GOD.

 

[smaller]

if you ever had to actually understand why the lord called the jews in that city jerusalem you would agree . why also would the bible delineate a physical city. where the sanhedrin are located. and i am suporting what stormcrow says on what ad 70 in part said happened.

And where does your bottom line reasoning lead you to in those conclusions? That only the Jews or their physical city have the problem? I'd say that is rather ridiculous, and it is ever more ridiculous to say that the dealings with Mystery Babylon or the workings of the mystery of iniquity passed away in 70 a.d. God scattered Israel in judgments, of that there can be no doubt. And in that HE, yes HE was dealing with them, and still does. The fact is that Israel was scattered NUMEROUS times throughout the O.T. and that was not finalized in 70 a.d. God scattered them again in Dachau and Buchenwald for example.

There also remains a gathering time still written for them. So no, none of these matters have met their conclusions in 70 a.d. Some of the writings, yes, but the game is not over yet by any means and on a much broader application.

The Jews, were, in effect a part of the instrument of Gods Use in dispersing His Word into the 'whole world.' This too is a fact. And the judgment that came to Israel WILL come upon the 'whole world.' This is yet to come.

ah yes you believe in the heresy of jews and muslims and christians being united in heaven if they somehow love "GOD" enough. sorry allah isnt our God. neither while very close will the jew be acceptated if he doesnt repent and believe in the messiah.

You can try all you want to divide the God of the O.T. and the God of the N.T. but there is no division available on that count. You as a 'christian' utterly fail in their view to bow to Gods Words of the O.T. They are much better adherents thereof. They in your view utterly fail to follow the God of the N.T. And therein you condemn them. The commonality is in fact the working of M. Babylon in confusion in both parties, and also in Islam.

Gods Words were always meant to 'divide' and divide they will. They were not meant to bring peace, but a Sword of Division and a source of offense.

In that, what has really transpired is that offense is revealed in 'all.' And Gods Words have performed that working, real time, from day 1 of man.

once agian post what the jews of TODAY say on other faiths. i'll will give you a hint.as i have heard quite a few say it. GOD is in all faiths and can be reached by all faiths. while in general not all rabbis teach this but many of the "jews" accept this. what does that mean?would God bless that? NO.while i cant say that is true on all jews but from my conversations with jews in my family being so liberal and also others that is large possibility. i have yet to meet a real devout torah/tanakh believing jew that states jews alone have GOD.

If any doctrinal sect believes they have captured the entirety of God in their doctrines, they are deceivers, all. Such captivity is an imagination of personal vanity, and the holders thereof have had confusions worked in their heads, all.

Such is the captivity of M. Babylon. When God requires us not to participate in 'HER SINS' who among us can say we have NO SIN? We all have 'her sins' Jason, because 'we are sinners all.'

enjoy!

s

 

[Stormcrow]

And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. Does anyone in their 'right' mind think they can travel to the city of Jerusalem (or ROME,) find a forehead on that physical city and see the name above inscribed there upon?

Do you even understand the significance of the forehead to the Jews???

It's significance is found in the OT in several passages!!!

{3} Moses said to the people, "Remember this day in which you went out from Egypt, from the house of slavery; for by a powerful hand the LORD brought you out from this place. And nothing leavened shall be eaten. Exodus 13:3 (NASB)

{9} "And it shall serve as a sign to you on your hand, and as a reminder on your forehead, that the law of the LORD may be in your mouth; for with a powerful hand the LORD brought you out of Egypt. Exodus 13:9 (NASB)

The sign "on the forehead" was to remind the people that they were consecrated to God because of what He did for them by brining them out of Egypt!

{36} "You shall also make a plate of pure gold and shall engrave on it, like the engravings of a seal, 'Holy to the LORD.' {37} "You shall fasten it on a blue cord, and it shall be on the turban; it shall be at the front of the turban. {38} "It shall be on Aaron's forehead, and Aaron shall take away the iniquity of the holy things which the sons of Israel consecrate, with regard to all their holy gifts; and it shall always be on his forehead, that they may be accepted before the LORD. Exodus 28:36-38 (NASB)

What God told the priests to wear on the forehead was a sign that they were consecrated to God and that whatever they consecrated would likewise be consecrated to Him!!!

When the priests refused to recognize Jesus as Messiah - when they refused to consecrate Him as Lord, that is to recognize Him as sent by God - they set themselves against God and the covenant! The mark on their forehead - which had signified their consecration now signified the profane!!! That is what John is telling us in Revelation!!!

{5} "You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. {6} "These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. {7} "You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. {8} "You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. {9} "You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. Deuteronomy 6:5-9 (NASB)

Again, all these signs - on the hand and forehead - were to remind the people of whom they served and who set them free from the bondage of Egypt! When they rejected Christ - the one and self-same God who did that for them - the mark they bore on the forehead - much like Cain's - indicated to God that they no longer loved, served, or chose to be consecrated to Him!!!

In other words, refusing to bow to Christ and choosing to bow to Caesar ("We have no king but Caesar") meant they accepted the mark of a false god on their foreheads.

They turned from their true savior and accepted a false one instead! That's why those who "took the mark of the beast" on the hand or forehead were doomed! This meant they embraced the idols of pagan Rome over the deity of Christ!!!

This is the significance of the mark on the forehead!!!