Who is Mystery Babylon ?

[francisdesales]

Couple of things real quick:

Revelation wasn't written in 96AD. It was written between 65 and 68AD, probably closer to 68AD.

That may be so. There are legitimate arguments for both dates - but the earlier date makes my point even more clearly, since certainly, no king was following the Church in 68 AD or fornicating with her, past tense...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Just more of romes jesuite stuff! Are you in membership?;)
--Elijah
​

What, no colored and highlighted rants with vague biblical verses tossed in???

You still have no answer for Paul's positive mention of the Roman Church - a faith that was known throughout the world. And if we go with the earlier Revelation date, gosh, that's less than 10 years separating John's writing and Paul's writing about the Church at Rome.

Maybe you should consider that you are mistaken, rather than continuing to kick at the goad...

 

[jasoncran]

seriously.what makes one think the bible is inerrant, elijah, if the rcc was so corrupt? the bible wasn't put together till after 400 ad.

 

[Stormcrow]

Just more of romes jesuite stuff! Are you in membership? --Elijah

Actually, if you knew anything about the Council of Trent, you would know that it was a Jesuit Priest - Francisco Ribera - who was commissioned by the RCC to reinterpret Revelation, giving the church the "futurist" view you hold so dear.

What you believe then, in essence, is the worst of two eschatological views combined into one: Luther's view that the Pope was the antichrist and the RCC the apostate church, and Ribera's view that everything in Revelation was meant for future fulfillment.

So if anyone is a follower of the much maligned Jesuits here, it would be you.

Think about that for awhile, Father ELIJAH.

 

[Stormcrow]

I'm really just curious about one other thing from the Catholic-bashing crowd here:

What's your solution to the Catholic problem? If you believe the RCC is the fountainhead of evil and the institution through which "THE ANTICHRIST" comes, what are you going to do about it?

To what logical conclusion should we assume you'll follow your whacked-out eschatology? Should we round up Catholics and head them off to concentration camps? Should we kill all the church's priests? Should we line them and their sympathizers up in front of firing squads and perform medical experiments on them?

You're "dictator for a day." Tell us what you would do about Catholics and the RCC given your intense hatred of them.

 

[Hitch]

I'm really just curious about one other thing from the Catholic-bashing crowd here:

What's your solution to the Catholic problem? If you believe the RCC is the fountainhead of evil and the institution through which "THE ANTICHRIST" comes, what are you going to do about it?

To what logical conclusion should we assume you'll follow your whacked-out eschatology? Should we round up Catholics and head them off to concentration camps? Should we kill all the church's priests? Should we line them and their sympathizers up in front of firing squads and perform medical experiments on them?

You're "dictator for a day." Tell us what you would do about Catholics and the RCC given your intense hatred of them.

Twenty-four hours of Family Radio.

 

[Elijah674]

Re: Who is Mystery Babylon ?

Originally Posted by Stormcrow
I'm really just curious about one other thing from the Catholic-bashing crowd here:

What's your solution to the Catholic problem? If you believe the RCC is the fountainhead of evil and the institution through which "THE ANTICHRIST" comes, what are you going to do about it?

To what logical conclusion should we assume you'll follow your whacked-out eschatology? Should we round up Catholics and head them off to concentration camps? Should we kill all the church's priests? Should we line them and their sympathizers up in front of firing squads and perform medical experiments on them?

You're "dictator for a day." Tell us what you would do about Catholics and the RCC given your intense hatred of them.

And Hitch??



Twenty-four hours of Family Radio.

Some are just plain SLOW!!!:yes We see the Word of God in Rev. 17:1-5 finding that ALL EX/DAUGHTERS have Came back to Their [MOM!] (rome + pope)

And this question of a round/up & SLAUGHTER?? The above ones are THE WHOLE WORLD WONDERING AFTER THE BEAST! So who is

you'ins???????? Just a REMNANT(Rev. 12:17) who are to be once again 666 threatened with 'buying & selling' at first and then comes the DEATH DECREE from ALL OF these 'c'hristians of Rev. 17:1-5​

OK: Who are these executioners working for? Christ never forces worship, just ALL OF these satanic ones who now make up the LAST Rev. 3:9 synagogue of satan LAODICEAN CHURCH.

And your question? It is all answered there in His above verses! Christ in Matt. 6:24 has [ONLY TWO] Masters, it is either all Christ or all satan, one or the other! And what does it take to be in satan's camp? Just being in the BROADWAY of Matt. 7 or (AND) Rev. 17:1-5 Anti/Christ is a mystery only for all of these false doctrine babbling ones, yet still UNITED IN satans camp!

God has DOCUMENTED what is now taking place to 'bring these ones to accept the catholic pope as the world's leader' as satan's representative. (and most do so already) God says 'WHAT MORE COULD I DO THAN WHAT I HAVE 'LOVINGLY' DONE??? Isa. 5:1-4' And verse 5 finds that the only thing left is to 'REMOVE HIS HEDGE' of Earth's Protection.

Matt. 24 has been 'taught IN TRUTH' and most have been hearing it Preached for years, and 'THE TIME' has now CAME FOR verse 21's EXCELLERATING TIME of 'GREAT TRIBULATION!' And it is now that the two groups will quickly form! (latter Rain Time of Acts 3:19) Already one can wittness the two groups 'seperating'! 2 Thess. 2:1-4

All of the above Broadway + Rev. 17:1-5 ones have mostly ALREADY SEALED THEIR FATE AS PROPHESIED. And this time of all hell (so to speak) breaking loose is for the ones of earth who have not had the opportunity to know Truth, to now have this opportunity to do so. God IS LOVE! And it is when CHRIST COST'S US OUR LIFE that His Family will stand out & up! Rev. 12:17 And that was why God gave INCREASED KNOWLEDGE to Finish up His work. Dan. 12:4

--Elijah

PS: And you will not have long now to AWAKEN, if you are not already past/tense?
​

​

 

[francisdesales]

Some are just plain SLOW!!!:yes

And others willingly cause hatred and discontent...

We see the Word of God in Rev. 17:1-5 finding that ALL EX/DAUGHTERS have Came back to Their [MOM!] (rome + pope)

Like I said. Willingly causing hatred and discontent. First, Rev 17 doesn't say anything about "ex-daughters". You insert that in there. Secondly, again, YOU are the one adding "rome and pope". The Bible never makes such a connection. Only you and those who want to destroy the Body, the Temple of the Holy Spirit, invent such garbage.

Explicitly, the Pope nor the Catholic Church are not mentioned in these verses. Not even implicitly can we tie Rev 17 to the Church. I have already explained that historically, it was not possible.

NO KING FOLLOWED THE CATHOLIC CHURCH IN THE FIRST CENTURY. End of story.

Now, today, no doubt, haters will attempt to make the connection, despite this simple evidence, reading their own silly interpretations into Rev 17, conveniently ignoring history and common sense. Hey, I even understand WHY you do it. You must villify the Church as much as possible to "justify" your own Numbers 16 position. But once a person dispassionately looks at the evidence, there is no way this selfish interpretation will hold. Conversion is necessary - and that means one must change. As much as your "theology" makes you feel good, it does not withstand any realistic scrutiny. It is just another tradition of men that leads people out of the Church. 2

 

[Stormcrow]

Methinks there's a deep-seated psychosis in there somewhere.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Babylon is the religion of man Rev 13:

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Its a collection of all false religions, be they many, that opposes the True Religion of the Church of God, created by the blood of Christ. Its all the false religious systems that are contrary to God and His Gospel. Its the religious world that teaches salvation by works, the works of men's hands, typified by Cain, and the power of man's will !

 

[Sinthesis]

What do you suppose "Babylon" represented to the Jewish/Christian population at the time Jesus' Revelation was given to John?

 

[Stormcrow]

Its a collection of all false religions, be they many, that opposes the True Religion of the Church of God, created by the blood of Christ. Its all the false religious systems that are contrary to God and His Gospel. Its the religious world that teaches salvation by works, the works of men's hands, typified by Cain, and the power of man's will !

And, of course, you can provide verses to support these baseless assertions?

 

[savedbygrace57]

And, of course, you can provide verses to support these baseless assertions?

I will give you a passage, but I am not going to spend time with you going into detail.

Rev 17:


1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

 

[savedbygrace57]

The one basic tenet that is always the same in world wide religion of Babylon, is that man's salvation ultimately depends upon and is determined by man himself. This was present with Cain, and with the Tower of Babel.

 

[Stormcrow]

I will give you a passage, but I am not going to spend time with you going into detail.

Rev 17:


1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Addressed here, here, and here. Might pay to reread these.

 

[francisdesales]

Addressed here, here, and here. Might pay to reread these.

Well done, thanks for the links. I esp. liked the connection made by Josephus that you detailed viz a viz Rome and Jerusalem.

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

The one basic tenet that is always the same in world wide religion of Babylon, is that man's salvation ultimately depends upon and is determined by man himself. This was present with Cain, and with the Tower of Babel.

You are applying your own theology to the verses in question, presuming that "salvation works" has anything to do with "Babylon". For Revelation to have meaning to the audience of the first century Christian, the term "Babylon" must take on a first century meaning, not the 19th century Protestant re-interpretation of things...

What does "Babylon" mean in the OT, the background used by John? Not "works salvation".

Regards

 

[Elijah674]

Lets see? 6/17/2011. And in all of Earth there is one world/BROADWAY/wide Mother church of [all ex/protest'ants']. And that is Israel? Surely most of the Earth one can read? + watch the daily World News?? And then [[SEE]] the [[INSPIRED]] Rev. 17:1-5 verses of these ones (in the verse!) being the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH!

Even without any 'hint' of Spiritual Brains, God can leave the rest of it up to you as it all unfolds! (Rev. 18:4) Newspapers! Radio reports! World TV! And then leave it to you for who this OPEN cess/pool of documented [INSPIRATION] is talking of?? ...and on and on it goes with satan telling all who will listen that this is Israel and not rome.

And the ex/Protest'ants'?? You tell me that they are not (Rev. 17's harlot's) bed/partners of their mommy rome?:robot(Matt. 10:25-27) Have it your way! Obad. 1:16

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

I will give you a passage, but I am not going to spend time with you going into detail.

Rev 17:


1And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

6And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Do you look upon 'Mystery Babylon' with great admiration? Or are you just that much wiser than the Apostle John?

Details derail false teaching.:shocked!

 

[smaller]

Lets see? 6/17/2011. And in all of Earth there is one world/BROADWAY/wide Mother church of [all ex/protest'ants']. And that is Israel? Surely most of the Earth one can read? + watch the daily World News?? And then [[SEE]] the [[INSPIRED]] Rev. 17:1-5 verses of these ones (in the verse!) being the ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH!

Even without any 'hint' of Spiritual Brains, God can leave the rest of it up to you as it all unfolds! (Rev. 18:4) Newspapers! Radio reports! World TV! And then leave it to you for who this OPEN cess/pool of documented [INSPIRATION] is talking of?? ...and on and on it goes with satan telling all who will listen that this is Israel and not rome.

And the ex/Protest'ants'?? You tell me that they are not (Rev. 17's harlot's) bed/partners of their mommy rome?:robot(Matt. 10:25-27) Have it your way! Obad. 1:16

--Elijah

Why anyone would term their fellow believers as being in Mystery Babylon is sensational nonsense.

The fact that the term is plainly noted as MYSTERY should instantly bring some clues to the matter.

Babylon denotes confusions. God Himself made the original Babylon 'confused' when He confused the languages, which evidence is openly in play 'just about' everywhere The Word is handled. No, make that 'everywhere.' One can get certain sects to agree amongst themselves and form a sect (how many, how many?!) as in the case of the RCC or....the SDAers' but that does not mean that either camp is not confused at a minimum in their relationships with each others.

Mystery Babylon reigns in the hearts of all who do not love their neighbors as themselves, and that is the working of the mystery of iniquity within them.

All of us are called to come out of 'her.' Those who do not remain confused and sectarian, and a captive of Mystery Babylon. Yet people still look at the 'others' never able to look to themselves.

Mystery Babylon is ruled by Satan, the father of iniquity. You will never see his cities, his stables, his treasures, his servants with your eyes. They are all hidden in your own heart.

When Truth shows this fact in 'any' mans Temple, you WILL be divided therein from that working, even while in the 'midst' of same.

Philippians 2:15
That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world

The nation, Mystery Babylon is not overseas somewhere, or in another 'sect' of christianity. God has immersed all of our hearts into that matter, that we may arise therein as sons of God.

It is an inner matter, as all spiritual matters are.

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