Who is the "generation of the figtree?"

[Drew]

2nd post re Zech 14:

A point about method: I am fully aware that merely showing a strong correlation between Zechariah 14 and Matthew 24 - that they likely describe the same scenario - does not specifically support my argument that Zechariah 14 has already happened. Both texts could refer to the same cluster of future events rather than the same cluster of events in Jesus own time. This is why I will go beyond showing a mere correlation between these texts and provide evidence that the common scenario they describe has already come to pass.

Consider where Jesus is situated when he makes the well-known Matthew 24 (and parallels) discourse. He is sitting on the very spot where God takes His stand in Zechariah 14:4 – the Mount of Olives. This is already a compelling hint that as He sits on this very significant spot, He is fulfilling this from Zechariah 14:

In that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which is in front of Jerusalem on the east;

Note how material from Zechariah 14 coheres perfectly well with such a reading. In verses 1 and 2, Jerusalem is indeed seized and plundered and in verse 5, the reader is urged to flee. And, of course, the Romans did attack and sack Jerusalem with some of Jesus’ followers fleeing the carnage.

No doubt, some readers will object that certain statements by Jesus in Matthew 24 are an allusion to Jesus’ 2nd coming. I suggest, instead that these statements are actually allusions to his imminent (e.g. in the very near future) vindication and enthronement. Jesus will be vindicated as a prophet when, in 70 AD, His many prophecies of coming judgement against Israel’s leaders will come true. Once more, people take language like “they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky†(Matthew 24:30) literally and imagine that Jesus is talking about a 2nd coming event which has not yet happened. Again, such an interpretation fails to account for how the “coming on the clouds†image is used in scripture. As argued elsewhere, this image comes from Daniel 7, where it is used to denote vindication after suffering and enthronement, not literal travel from heaven to earth. Jesus knows His Old Testament. The allusion to Daniel 7 in Matthew 24:30 is no accident – Jesus is calling up an image of vindication and enthronement and applying it to himself.

.....more to come.

 

[Drew]

Last post re Zechariah 14:

I have already offered that Matthew 24 echoes Zechariah 14 in the matter of a predicted sack of Jerusalem and a warning to flee. However, the connections are much stronger than this. What is the broader context of the Matthew 24 teaching? Jesus has just entered Jerusalem to waving palm branches. He has cleared the temple, demonstrating authority over it. In the Jewish worldview, it is precisely the Messianic King who has authority over the temple. And where are kings to be enthroned? In Jerusalem. Jesus is engaging in precisely those behaviours which indicate He is claiming Kingship. And what does Zechariah 14 have to say about what happens as God fights the enemy in the apocalyptic scenario:

“The Lord will be King over the whole earth†(v. 9)

I trust the point is clear. At the end of His ministry, Jesus engages in the very behaviours that entail a kingship claim and prophecies coming judgement against Jerusalem. And Zechariah 14 echoes this precisely – Jerusalem is besieged and God becomes King. If Zechariah 14 still lies in the future, then we have the very challenging task of explaining precisely why Jesus seems to be claiming Kingship, and yet that claim will not be made good for > 2000 years, since God “becomes king†in the context of the fulfillment of Zechariah 14.

Jesus quotes from Zechariah 13 when, in Matthew 26, He predicts that the disciples will abandon him as he goes to the cross:

I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered

What does this tell us? It strengthens the argument that Jesus is fulfilling the Zechariah 14:4 prophecy when he sits on the Mount of Olive and predicts judgement on Jerusalem. The Matthew 26:31 text shows that Jesus sees himself in the role of Zechariah’s shepherd. The shepherd image in the Old Testament is often applied to God. And in Zechariah 14, we have God becoming king. These are compelling reasons to think that Jesus sees Himself as playing the role of the divine kingly ruler of Zechariah 14.

On top of all these arguments, we have Zechariah 14:16-19. In those verses, the pagan nations – the Gentile stream to Jerusalem to worship. This has strong echoes of this covenant promise made to Abraham. There is little doubt that Paul, in Romans if not elsewhere, sees Jesus’ action on the cross as the very event whereby this covenant promise is fulfilled – the Gentiles are brought into the family of God:

21Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction? 23And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, 24even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles.
25As He says also in Hosea,
"I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,'
AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'"
26"AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,'
THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."

Paul sees that the promised grafting in of the Gentile occurs through the work of the cross. And Zechariah 14 paints precisely such a picture: Following a victory of God over the enemies of the people in verses 9-15 (a victory which, no doubt, Paul would see was won at Calvary by none other than Jesus), the Gentiles stream in to worship the living God (16-19). All these connections strongly endorse the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled.

 

[Lehigh3]

by Drew,

Paul sees that the promised grafting in of the Gentile occurs through the work of the cross. And Zechariah 14 paints precisely such a picture: Following a victory of God over the enemies of the people in verses 9-15 (a victory which, no doubt, Paul would see was won at Calvary by none other than Jesus), the Gentiles stream in to worship the living God (16-19). All these connections strongly endorse the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled.

While I agree that Zech.14 has already been fulfilled- it is still beyond Calvary that Zech.14 fulfills.
This is Christ's second coming. Note how all the nations will battle against Jerusalem in the day of the Lord- & the Mt. Olives to be split in 2. These are the same as the tale of the "2 Jerusalems" by Paul God is separating the Jews after the flesh from the faithful Jews. Note how in that day there will be no light (v.6) same as Mark 13:24-25 & the coming of the Son of man.

Note how the feast of tabernacles is fulfilled in Zech.14.

It was in Sept. AD70 that Titus took the temple. Same time as the feast of Tabernacles when "the tabernacle of God is with men" - in the new heavens & earth - the new Jerusalem.

 

[n2thelight]

This is circular reasoning. You are importing the assumption that the "end" at issue is the second coming of Jesus. This teaching from Jesus works perfectly well with the notion that this prophecy was fulfilled in first century, if the "end" at issue is the end of a particular chapter in God's unfolding history, namely the end of Israel as a "special" nation, and not the second coming.

As Ive said many times the problem is not that I don't believe these things happened,however they shall happen again....

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The end of the world did not happen in AD 70 I don't care how much one tries to make it so.....

Ecclesiastes 1:9
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

How long had Israel not been a nation before becoming one again in 1948?You all really think this is not meaningful

A preterist view in my opinion limits

the Word of God,in that what is written within can't pretain to them,with the exception of salvation....What comes after that,you just wait to die?


Hebrews 5:12 "For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat."

Paul is saying that by this time you ought to be teachers of the Word, but instead you need teachers to teach you again. You haven't gone beyond even the first baby steps in your Christian life, and you are still as a milk sucking baby in your growth. Just like a tiny infant is incapable of taking strong meat, you are incapable of understanding any strong meat of the Word. All you want to do is sit around and have others spoon feed you with the milk of Salvation, and you never get into depth of the understanding of the full plan of God.

What is new, people are no different today then they were in Paul's day, most Christians never want to get any deeper then the milk of salvation, given over and over, salvation and baptism, baptism and salvation, even when every person in that church is saved, and has heard it for decades. Friend, that is a milk sucking, diapered congregation of baby Christians that Paul is referring to here. The meat of the Word comes when you start studying and teaching chapter by chapter, and verse by verse for understanding.

Hebrews 5:13 "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."

Paul is saying that if all you know is salvation and baptism you are unskilled in the Word. Paul is calling you a babe in Christ. You are passing out pabulum to the congregation, rather then the true communion of Christ, which is the Word of God.

Hebrews 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

The strong meat of the Word, of God's full plan is for them that are mature in God's Word. Babies are cute, and loveable, but it is a tragedy when a person stays at the mentality of a child all his life. There is no trust in them, nor is their stability. You will be considered strange when you become forty or fifty years old, and still wearing diapers, and sucking on a bottle of milk. That is exactly as a Christian is that has not risen above salvation and baptism, when they claim to be a Christian for many years.

The full meat of the Word is for those Christians that are using their gray matter, the common sense that God has given them. The are using "their senses exercised to discern both good and evil".That means that they are in the Word, and studying it for the exact meaning of what God is saying to them. That is how you come to full age in the Word as a Christian, and come to the point whereby you can discern between good and evil. What is of God, and what is not of God, but of the devil.

I mean why study the Word if everything in it has happened already?

 

[Lehigh3]

1 Corinthians 10:11
Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

The end of the world did not happen in AD 70 I don't care how much one tries to make it so....

Well, the translation is actually "ends of the ages" And Paul just said IT DID COME UPON THEM (hello! upon Paul & his audience OBVIOUSLY!)

How long had Israel not been a nation before becoming one again in 1948?You all really think this is not meaningful

A preterist view in my opinion limits

the Word of God,in that what is written within can't pretain to them,with the exception of salvation....What comes after that,you just wait to die?

The Preterist view is taken directly from the word of God without adding or subtracting or twisting it. God fulfilled the Old Covenant promises to Israel. Christ was the end of the Law to those Jews who believed (in that generation) He was the Mediator of the New Covenant.

I mean why study the Word if everything in it has happened already?

Why not, who reads the Bible for just prophecies? Your quotes above are not all about prophecies either!

Answer:
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]The Purpose of Scripture
I hope that no one believes that the purpose of Scripture is simply for prophecy. In fact, Paul tells us that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (II Tim 43:16,17) This means that not only the prophetic Scripture is profitable to these ends, but all other Scripture, as well.
This means that prophetic Scriptures have greater usefulness than simply foretelling events. For example, the prophecies of the Cross of Christ are no less relevant to us after its completion, than before; yea, they are much more relevant after fulfillment ! Such is the case with the fulfillment of all the other "words spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets, since the world began."


The Enduring Fulfillments
Also, there are a number of passages which have a legacy of greater and enduring fulfillment. One example is: Isaiah 9:7. Ezekiel 47 talks about a trickle of "healing waters" which started out from the threshold of the Messianic Temple in the Last Days. After it has gone a thousand cubits it becomes ankle deep. Another thousand and it is knee deep. Then, waist-deep. And finally, over our heads, un-crossable, overflowing its banks, baptizing the whole world. It is the dominion mandate. It is taking every thought captive. It is penetrating and saturating every culture on this globe for Christ and His Kingdom. It is not cultural surrender, escapism, defeatism, non-involvement. We are here for the long term. Our children and grandchildren will suffer if we do not make a difference for righteousness sake. We must get involved in making the world a better place (not just physically, but spiritually and culturally). What else could "seek His Kingdom and His righteousness first" mean? Rev. 21 and 22 pick up on that theme of the "healing waters" and show how we now have that process going on. You and I are a part of that process. Rev. 21 and 22 show that the "nations bring their wealth into the Kingdom" and are "healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life." Life goes on. The world doesn't end. But it is healed and brings its cultural and spiritual wealth into the church. Jesus' parables about the mustard seed which starts out small but grows into a tree that all the birds of the air can nest in and be nourished with. It is not a time to retreat to the hills to hide from the antichrist. It is time to fill the earth with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea.
[/FONT]

 

[Mtwildman]

This Generation Jesus speeks of is the generation at the time of the period of time he is speeking of. Time of the end!

Daniel 8:17 (KJV)
17 So he came near where I stood: and when he came, I was afraid, and fell upon my face: but he said unto me, Understand, O son of man: for at the time of the end shall be the vision.


Matthew 24:32-34 (KJV)
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.


Mark 13:28-30 (KJV)
28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:
29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.
30 Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.


Luke 21:29-32 (KJV)
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

2 Timothy 3:16 (KJV)
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All this that Jesus has spoken is for instruction to all that read and understand. He is speeking to the faithful believer.

Luke 8:9-10 (KJV)
9 And his disciples asked him, saying, What might this parable be?
10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

John 8:43 (KJV)
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.

 

[Stormcrow]

This Generation Jesus speeks of is the generation at the time of the period of time he is speeking of. Time of the end!

The end of what? That's the question that needs to be addressed.

The answer is not as simple as most think.

 

[Lehigh3]

And beginning of the "age to come" where when we die we become like the angels in heaven!

The "ends of the ages" brought the means & extremes of the old covenant & new covenant ages.

Unlike some would like to imagine, the Law did not pass at the cross. The Bible says otherwise.
Jesus said not one jot would fail from the Law until all was fulfilled. And the time of the fulfillment of all that was written was AD 70 (Luke 21:20-22)

 

[n2thelight]

Well, the translation is actually "ends of the ages" And Paul just said IT DID COME UPON THEM (hello! upon Paul & his audience OBVIOUSLY!)
The Preterist view is taken directly from the word of God without adding or subtracting or twisting it. God fulfilled the Old Covenant promises to Israel. Christ was the end of the Law to those Jews who believed (in that generation) He was the Mediator of the New Covenant.
Why not, who reads the Bible for just prophecies? Your quotes above are not all about prophecies either!

Answer:
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]The Purpose of Scripture [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]I hope that no one believes that the purpose of Scripture is simply for prophecy. In fact, Paul tells us that "All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works." (II Tim 43:16,17) This means that not only the prophetic Scripture is profitable to these ends, but all other Scripture, as well. [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]This means that prophetic Scriptures have greater usefulness than simply foretelling events. For example, the prophecies of the Cross of Christ are no less relevant to us after its completion, than before; yea, they are much more relevant after fulfillment ! Such is the case with the fulfillment of all the other "words spoken by the mouths of all the holy prophets, since the world began." [/FONT]


[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]The Enduring Fulfillments [/FONT]
[FONT=ARIAL,HELVETICA,SANS-SERIF]Also, there are a number of passages which have a legacy of greater and enduring fulfillment. One example is: Isaiah 9:7. Ezekiel 47 talks about a trickle of "healing waters" which started out from the threshold of the Messianic Temple in the Last Days. After it has gone a thousand cubits it becomes ankle deep. Another thousand and it is knee deep. Then, waist-deep. And finally, over our heads, un-crossable, overflowing its banks, baptizing the whole world. It is the dominion mandate. It is taking every thought captive. It is penetrating and saturating every culture on this globe for Christ and His Kingdom. It is not cultural surrender, escapism, defeatism, non-involvement. We are here for the long term. Our children and grandchildren will suffer if we do not make a difference for righteousness sake. We must get involved in making the world a better place (not just physically, but spiritually and culturally). What else could "seek His Kingdom and His righteousness first" mean? Rev. 21 and 22 pick up on that theme of the "healing waters" and show how we now have that process going on. You and I are a part of that process. Rev. 21 and 22 show that the "nations bring their wealth into the Kingdom" and are "healed by the leaves of the Tree of Life." Life goes on. The world doesn't end. But it is healed and brings its cultural and spiritual wealth into the church. Jesus' parables about the mustard seed which starts out small but grows into a tree that all the birds of the air can nest in and be nourished with. It is not a time to retreat to the hills to hide from the antichrist. It is time to fill the earth with the knowledge of God as the waters cover the sea. [/FONT]

Here's the bottom line and I know Ive said it a few times,but had the end of the age happened we would not now be in flesh bodies.....You all said that we are now in the kingdom of God,however scripture says that flesh and blood cannot enter that kingdom,which is why Paul stated we would all be changed....

I Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption."

I mean do you really understand the below scripture,I don't think so,for if you did it would be imposible for you to say Christ has already came....

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

When does this change take place?

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Now if the last trump has sounded why are we still in flesh bodies?Please don't tell me it's only when we die that we are changed because Paul just said that we would not all sleep(die)

The change is from flesh to spirit,period...Now if Paul said we would not all sleep(die)can you please tell me why all in ad 70 has died?

There are only two ways in which this change can take place,and that's at death or either the last trump......

There is no way whatsoever that Christ came because had He did,the age of the flesh would have ended at that time..............

 

[Stormcrow]

but had the end of the age happened we would not now be in flesh bodies

The apostles all disagree with you.

{26} Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26 (NASB)

{40} "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. Matthew 13:40 (NASB)

{49} "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, Matthew 13:49 (NASB)

{3} As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:3 (NASB)

{20} teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Matthew 28:20 (NASB)

{7} The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

The end of what age???

{24} "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. Daniel 9:24 (NASB)

The end of these 70 sabbath years: 490 years in all. God's plan to bring forth Messiah through the Jewish people was consummated with Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection. The Old Covenant was completely and irrevocably eliminated in 70AD, with the destruction of the Temple.

That was "the end" to which every writer of the New Testament was pointing.

Simply because people choose to believe the lies and heresies that point to some future "consummation" of God's plan does not make them true.

 

[n2thelight]

The apostles all disagree with you.

{26} Otherwise, He would have needed to suffer often since the foundation of the world; but now once at the consummation of the ages He has been manifested to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. Hebrews 9:26 (NASB)

{40} "So just as the tares are gathered up and burned with fire, so shall it be at the end of the age. Matthew 13:40 (NASB)

n2thelight
So why are the tares still with the wheat?

{49} "So it will be at the end of the age; the angels will come forth and take out the wicked from among the righteous, Matthew 13:49 (NASB)

n2thelight
Why are the wicked still here?

{3} As He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?" Matthew 24:3 (NASB)

{20} teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age." Matthew 28:20 (NASB)

{7} The end of all things is near; therefore, be of sound judgment and sober spirit for the purpose of prayer. 1 Peter 4:7 (NASB)

The end of what age???

{24} "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place. Daniel 9:24 (NASB)

The end of these 70 sabbath years: 490 years in all. God's plan to bring forth Messiah through the Jewish people was consummated with Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection. The Old Covenant was completely and irrevocably eliminated in 70AD, with the destruction of the Temple.

That was "the end" to which every writer of the New Testament was pointing.

Simply because people choose to believe the lies and heresies that point to some future "consummation" of God's plan does not make them true.

I posted straight scripture,what part did you not understand?

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

When does this change take place?

I Corinthians 15:52 "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

Now if the last trump has sounded why are we still in flesh bodies?Please don't tell me it's only when we die that we are changed because Paul just said that we would not all sleep(die)

The change is from flesh to spirit,period...Now if Paul said we would not all sleep(die)can you please tell me why all in ad 70 has died?

There are only two ways in which this change can take place,and that's at death or either the last trump......

There is no way whatsoever that Christ came because had He did,the age of the flesh would have ended at that time..............

 

[Stormcrow]

I Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,"

When does this change take place?

At the end of the age!

{1} "Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.

{2} "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:1-2 (NASB)

{13} "But as for you [Daniel], go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age." Daniel 12:13 (NASB)

The resurrection was never for New Testament believers!!! It was for Daniel and His people, the Jews who died under the Old Covenant! Do YOU understand???

Those who die in the New Covenant go straight to the Father where we get our eternal, incorruptible spiritual bodies!

WE DO NOT LAY IN THE GRAVE WAITING FOR THE DAY OF RESURRECTION SO THAT WE CAN BE UNITED WITH THE FATHER!!! WE GO STRAIGHT TO THE FATHER THE MOMENT WE PASS FROM THIS LIFE!!!

Do you understand the purpose and nature of Sheol vs. Gehenna? Of Hades (Hell) vs. Tartarus???

The resurrection emptied Sheol and the grave of those who died before Christ came! That's when the tombs were opened when Christ arose from the dead and people saw the resurrected OT saints walking around in Jerusalem!

When Christ came in judgment against Jerusalem, those left in the grave and those who died during the judgment were judged and the unrighteous were sent straight to the Lake of Fire (Gehenna!)

Now when people die they go straight to judgment or - in the case of believers - straight into the presence of the Father WHERE THEY HAVE BEEN SINCE THE MOMENT THEY WERE SAVED!!!

{4} But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, {5} even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), {6} and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, Ephesians 2:4-6 (NASB)

The believer needs no resurrection BECAUSE WE ARE ALREADY WITH CHRIST IN THE HEAVENLIES, AND WHEN WE PASS FROM THIS LIFE WE GET OUR NEW BODIES THE MOMENT WE DIE!!!

The proof that every book of the NT was written before 70AD lies in the fact that the apostles - who were still operating with one foot in the Old Covenant and one in the New Covenant - WERE STILL LOOKING FORWARD TO THE RESURRECTION THAT WAS COMING AT THE END OF THE AGE: THE END OF THE AGE OF THE LAW!!!

That age ended with the fiery judgment of Jerusalem and the destruction of the Temple: vengeance for the Covenant exacted upon THAT GENERATION, EXACTLY as Christ foretold!


That's the truth. Those are the facts. Do with them as you will.

 

[Stormcrow]

the age of the flesh would have ended at that time

Please point me to the passage that describes the "age of the flesh."

 

[n2thelight]

Please point me to the passage that describes the "age of the flesh."

Come on now,you can't see it...Guess that's why Christ spoke in parables

Paul says (listen now)we will not all sleep(die)but we all shall be changed...When?At the last trump....Now since that's when Christ Kingdom will be here on earth and since flesh and blood cannot enter that kingdom,common sense should tell you that the age of the flesh is over at that point......

Now since all the apostles died, along with everyone else from 70ad ,that trumpet could not have sounded then....simple,so simple.....

 

[Stormcrow]

Paul says (listen now)we will not all sleep(die)but we all shall be changed...When?At the last trump....Now since that's when Christ Kingdom will be here on earth and since flesh and blood cannot enter that kingdom,common sense should tell you that the age of the flesh is over at that point......

Now since all the apostles died, along with everyone else from 70ad ,that trumpet could not have sounded then....simple,so simple.....

Every one of those statements you made is based on an assumption. You've pulled one verse out of context and are building dogma around that one verse!

On the other hand, there are DOZENS of verses that say Christ's Kingdom is not of this world, that His coming in judgment on Jerusalem to execute vengeance for the covenant HAPPENED at the last trump, and that the RESURRECTIONS (one of which is recorded in Matthew!) happened with the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple!

On top of that, there are at least 10 verses alone in the NT from different writers that all point to His imminent return during their lifetimes!!!

Why would they write that if He didn't tell them to expect His coming?

Why would they believe it if they didn't think He was faithful to His word?

Why don't you???

 

[Stormcrow]

Come on now,you can't see it...Guess that's why Christ spoke in parables

BTW, your sneering condescension is uncalled for. 2

 

[Vic C.]

Lets concentrate and STAY on topic please.

 

[n2thelight]

The generation that saw Israel become a nation again,is the generation that Christ was talking about.....

 

[Stormcrow]

The generation that saw Israel become a nation again,is the generation that Christ was talking about.....

Then He must have been talking about that same generation when He said all this:

{16} "But to what shall I compare this generation? It is like children sitting in the market places, who call out to the other children, Matthew 11:16 (NASB)

{39} But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; {40} for just as JONAH WAS THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE BELLY OF THE SEA MONSTER, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. Matthew 12:39-40 (NASB)

{41} "The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here. Matthew 12:41 (NASB)

{42} "The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here. Matthew 12:42 (NASB)

{45} "Then it goes and takes along with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there; and the last state of that man becomes worse than the first. That is the way it will also be with this evil generation." Matthew 12:45 (NASB)

{4} "An evil and adulterous generation seeks after a sign; and a sign will not be given it, except the sign of Jonah." And He left them and went away. Matthew 16:4 (NASB)

{17} And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him here to Me." Matthew 17:17 (NASB)

{35} so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. {36} "Truly I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation. Matthew 23:35-36 (NASB)

{34} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

{12} Sighing deeply in His spirit, He *said, "Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation." Mark 8:12 (NASB)

{38} "For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels." Mark 8:38 (NASB)

{19} And He *answered them and *said, "O unbelieving generation, how long shall I be with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring him to Me!" Mark 9:19 (NASB)

{30} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Mark 13:30 (NASB)

{31} "To what then shall I compare the men of this generation, and what are they like? Luke 7:31 (NASB)

{41} And Jesus answered and said, "You unbelieving and perverted generation, how long shall I be with you and put up with you? Bring your son here." Luke 9:41 (NASB)

{29} As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, "This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah. Luke 11:29 (NASB)

{50} so that the blood of all the prophets, shed since the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation, {51} from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the house of God; yes, I tell you, it shall be charged against this generation.' Luke 11:50-51 (NASB)

{25} "But first He must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Luke 17:25 (NASB)

{32} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. Luke 21:32 (NASB)

{40} And with many other words he solemnly testified and kept on exhorting them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation!" Acts 2:40 (NASB)

{15} so that you will prove yourselves to be blameless and innocent, children of God above reproach in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you appear as lights in the world, Philippians 2:15 (NASB)

Yep. He didn't appear to mean His generation at all. I'm glad that's settled.

 

[n2thelight]

34} "Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place. Matthew 24:34 (NASB)

{12} Sighing deeply in His spirit, He *said, "Why does this generation seek for a sign? Truly I say to you, no sign will be given to this generation." Mark 8:12 (NASB)

So either they got a sign or they didn't,which is it?