Who is the "generation of the figtree?"

[jasoncran]

What is that? Shalom, my friend?

blessed is he that cometh in the name of the lord.

that is what jesus told them.

ye shall not see me till ye say blessed is he that cometh in name of the lord.

that was on the triumphul entry of jersusalem. therefore if jerusalem welcomed him why then did he say that ye shall lay desolate for in the day of thine visatation thou didst NOT welcome therefore though shall be desolate hereafter and trampled under foot then unto what i at first quoted.

 

[Lehigh3]

blessed is he that cometh in the name of the lord.

that is what jesus told them.

ye shall not see me till ye say blessed is he that cometh in name of the lord.

that was on the triumphul entry of jersusalem. therefore if jerusalem welcomed him why then did he say that ye shall lay desolate for in the day of thine visatation thou didst NOT welcome therefore though shall be desolate hereafter and trampled under foot then unto what i at first quoted.

Yes some accepted Him as son of David upon entrance to Jerusalem. But the Pharisees & leaders of the Jews, & the other Jews that rejected Him, were blinded & "missed their visitation" they said they "had no king but Caesar!"

And so they were judged - Luke 19:41-44, NKJV

I think we are saying the same thing.
Jesus Weeps over Jerusalem


41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.â€

 

[jasoncran]

Yes some accepted Him as son of David upon entrance to Jerusalem. But the Pharisees & leaders of the Jews, & the other Jews that rejected Him, were blinded & "missed their visitation" they said they "had no king but Caesar!"

And so they were judged - Luke 19:41-44, NKJV

I think we are saying the same thing.
Jesus Weeps over Jerusalem


41 Now as He drew near, He saw the city and wept over it, 42 saying, “If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. 43 For days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment around you, surround you and close you in on every side, 44 and level you, and your children within you, to the ground; and they will not leave in you one stone upon another, because you did not know the time of your visitation.â€

but that isnt the end,they or some of them will return.

its related to this question.

acts 1

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.


he didnt say that he wouldnt give them the kingdom just that he was going to do that and that wasnt for us to know.

when did jesus defend jerusalem from her enemies?

remember that cant be said its fullfilled as the time of the gentiles.

you have to understand what the time of the gentiles is in daniel and when the time of gentiles ends that jersusalem is fully in the jews hands.ie jerusalem no longer trodden under foot

now if you say that the kingdom of God was underfoot, kindly tell me when that happened? and why?

 

[EricTheBaptist]

Thank you for your input. This preterst stuff sub, none, partial just sounds goofy to me. No offense to anyone I am trying to learn why some believe different things from the same book.

In Matt:29 Immediately after those horrible days end,

the sun will be darkened,
the moon will not give light,
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the powers of heaven will be shaken.

And then at last the Son of Man will appear in the heavens, and there will be deep mourning among all the nations of the earth. And they will see the Son of Manarrive on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.31 And he will send forth his angels with the sound of a mighty trumpet blast, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the farthest ends of the earth and heaven.

32."
now learn a lesson from the fig tree. When it's buds become ternder and its leaves begin to sprout, you know without being told that summer is near. 33 Just so, when you see the events I've described beginning to happen, you can know his return is very near, right at the door. I assure you, this generation will not pass from the scene before all these things take place. 35:Heaven and Earth will disappear, but my words will remain forever.

this does not jive with the belief of preterism does it? please explain

So from what I can get from that verse. The Sun is going to go out and the Earth will then turn to 300 below zero. The Sun is a small star and is over 10,000 times bigger than the Earth, and the verse claims that stars will fall to the Earth. Completely impossible.

 

[n2thelight]

Let me try this again...............

Concerning the time of the Lord’s return, Jesus’ disciples asked him: “what will be the sign of your coming and of the close of the age?†(Matthew 24:3b ESV). Jesus then began to describe the many things that would precede His second coming – many of which are being fulfilled before our eyes. Jesus said “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many,†(Matt 24:5). Since 1900 there have been many dozens who have either claimed to be Jesus or the Christ in one form or another. Some of the most notable are Sun Myung Moon, founder of the Unification Church and David Koresh of the Branch Davidian religious sect, Ariffin Mohamed from Malaysia and Sergei Torop from Russia.

He then spoke of wars, rumors of war and nation against nation.

And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of sorrows, (Matthew 24:6-8).

Only in the twentieth century have we seen the entire world at war not just once but twice. The projected death toll for the Second World War alone is upwards of fifty million people – a number unheard of before in human history. The past century could easily be classified as wars, rumors of wars, nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom.

There are many signs of the Lord’s second coming just as there were for his first coming and the Lord rebuked the leaders of his day for not picking up on the revealed signs that were evident of his first coming.

Birth Contractions

Jesus likened all of the events mentioned above to birth pains by saying: “All these are but the beginning of the birth pains,†(Matthew 24:8). Just like for a woman in labor, the contractions will get closer and closer until finally the child is born, so it is if we were to consider today’s events in terms of giving birth, we might say that prophetically all that is left is to push the baby out. All that the Lord had said so far (discussed above) was a response to the disciples’ question “what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?â€

The Fig Tree is the Sign of His Coming
Jesus then gave an important sign to look for concerning his coming: the fig tree. The sign of his coming and the end of the age is the fig tree:

Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near–at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place, (Matthew 24:32-34, emphasis mine).

The Fig Tree Is Israel

There are two obvious questions concerning this parable: who or what is the fig tree and how long is a generation? The answer to the first question is unmistakably Israel. God clearly compares Israel with a fig tree. The following verses are given in chronological order.

I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstfruits on the fig tree in its first season, (Hosea 9:10, emphasis mine).

Here God compares Israel to grapes and the fathers to fruits of the fig tree. Then in Joel He speaks of “my land†as being comparable to “my fig tree†again showing that Israel (both ethnically/nationally and geographically) is symbolized as a fig tree.

For a nation has come up against My land, strong, and without number; His teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he has the fangs of a fierce lion. He has laid waste My vine, And ruined My fig tree; He has stripped it bare and thrown it away; Its branches are made white, (Joel 1:6-7, emphasis mine).

Next God shows Jeremiah a vision of baskets of good figs and bad figs. Note that both the good and the bad are representative of Israel (Judah). The “good†are taken out of the land, that is, out of danger, and the “bad†are left to be judged.[1]

One basket had very good figs, like the figs that are first ripe; and the other basket had very bad figs which could not be eaten, they were so bad. Then the LORD said to me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?†And I said, “Figs, the good figs, very good; and the bad, very bad, which cannot be eaten, they are so bad.†“Thus says the LORD, the God of Israel: “Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge those who are carried away captive from Judah, whom I have sent out of this place for their own good, into the land of the Chaldeans. “And as the bad figs which cannot be eaten, they are so bad’–surely thus says the LORD–â€so will I give up Zedekiah the king of Judah, his princes, the residue of Jerusalem who remain in this land, and those who dwell in the land of Egypt, (Jer 24:2, 3, 5, 8 emphasis mine).

Jesus continues the correlation of Israel with a fig tree during the final stage of His ministry. Keep in mind that Jesus had been ministering in Israel for about three years when He gave this parable. Just like the illustration of God seeking good fruit from His vineyard and finding none in Isaiah 5:1-7, so too Jesus, had come in person expecting to find some good fruit and found little or none.

He also spoke this parable: A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none. Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, ‘Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?’ But he answered and said to him, ‘Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it. And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down,’ (Luke 13:6-9, emphasis mine).

That Jesus had Israel in mind is confirmed at the end of the chapter when Jesus laments over Jerusalem because of their unwillingness to receive their Messiah and declares that their house is left desolate. Furthermore, the Jewish leaders of Jerusalem could in no way say “blessed is He…†so long as they were not living in the land of Israel (during the time of their exile).

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!’ (Luke 13:34-35).

Which Generation?

So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near – at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place, (Matthew 24:33-34, emphasis mine).

The generation spoken of here must be the generation that would see all of the things that Jesus spoke of when the disciples questioned Him and specifically it would be the generation that would see the “fig tree buddingâ€. Since we have seen that the fig tree was Israel in both the prophets and according to Jesus, then “this generation†must be the one that began at the commencement of the new state of Israel.[12]

The Fig Tree Has Budded

Thus we see Israel was a dried tree for about 1900 years and then miraculously the branch put forth leaves in one day on May 14, 1948. Jesus told us that when this happens His return is at the doors. He said that the generation that saw this would by no means pass away.

Footnotes: An interesting circumstantial confirmation of the 1948 date is found concerning the birth of Abraham. According to biblical chronology (reading from the Massoretic text) he was born 1,948 years after creation (Anno Mundi). While that calculation is based on the year of creation and not the Gregorian calendar, the same number is striking. Furthermore, the date of Abraham receiving the covenant in Genesis 15 was given 2,018 years anno mundi. Given that the birth of Abraham, the father of the nation, and the rebirth of the nation both occurred in the same year (on their respective calendars), is it possible that AD 2,018 (on the Gregorian calendar) will also be significant?

These dates seem to be confirmed extra-biblically by virtue of several discoveries: a massive Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun is expected between 2012-2014; there will be a series of four total lunar eclipses (tetrad) between 2014-2015 all of which fall on biblical feast days (as discovered by Mark Biltz) which potentially spells trouble for Israel.

One of the best studies Ive read on this subject

http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/2010/December11/1186.html

 

[Stormcrow]

Jesus then began to describe the many things that would precede His second coming – many of which are being fulfilled before our eyes.

ALL of them fulfilled before 70 AD.

Jesus said “For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many,”

Josephus recounts that many of these came before 70 AD, one of them, a notorious Egyptian "false Messiah" is mentioned in the book of Acts! Paul is mistaken for him!

He then spoke of wars, rumors of war and nation against nation.

The Roman war in Britain against the Boudican Revolt, among others. Read Tacitus for more.

The Fig Tree is the Sign of His Coming

The fig tree is nothing more than a simile, a parable, and it's not even viewed uniquely in Luke's gospel!

{29} Then He told them a parable: "Behold the fig tree and all the trees; Luke 21:29 (NASB)

The fig tree is NOT Israel in the Olivet Discourse, and if it is, then Israel must be Birch, Ash, Oak, Elm, Maple, and Box Elder, too!!!

The parable of the trees is a parable of the sign for Jerusalem's impending desolation! Christ's return outlined in the OD is His return in judgment on the land and the people: the judgment of the generation that rejected and had Him crucified! NOTHING MORE!!!

As to the rest, it's bunk!

These dates seem to be confirmed extra-biblically by virtue of several discoveries: a massive Coronal Mass Ejection from the sun is expected between 2012-2014; there will be a series of four total lunar eclipses (tetrad) between 2014-2015 all of which fall on biblical feast days (as discovered by Mark Biltz) which potentially spells trouble for Israel.

One of the best studies Ive read on this subject

This last paragraph is just more "date-setting" heresy of the kind promoted by Harold Camping, Hal Lindsey and Jack van Impe. It's absolute nonsense.

What are you going to do when 2015 comes and goes and Christ hasn't returned? What about 2030? 2040? What will people do in 2099 on the eve of the new century? Throw yet another "end of the world" panic???

 

[n2thelight]

Jesus then began to describe the many things that would precede His second coming – many of which are being fulfilled before our eyes.

ALL of them fulfilled before 70 AD.

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

The fact that there was a war,and the fact that wars are still going on should tell you that Christ has not returned.....


Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'Behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it not."

1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ just told me to not believe anything you said about Him returning

This last paragraph is just more "date-setting" heresy of the kind promoted by Harold Camping, Hal Lindsey and Jack van Impe. It's absolute nonsense.

What are you going to do when 2015 comes and goes and Christ hasn't returned? What about 2030? 2040? What will people do in 2099 on the eve of the new century? Throw yet another "end of the world" panic???

I don't date set and I follow NO man,but we are to know the season,period,guess you think the world as we know it will just continue on forever....

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."

Are people still dying?

 

[Elijah674]

Jesus then began to describe the many things that would precede His second coming – many of which are being fulfilled before our eyes.

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

The fact that there was a war,and the fact that wars are still going on should tell you that Christ has not returned.....


Matthew 24:8 "All these are the beginning of sorrows."

Matthew 24:23 "Then if any man shall say unto you, 'Lo, here is Christ,' or 'there,' believe it not."

Matthew 24:26 "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, 'Behold, He is in the desert;' go not forth: 'Behold, He is in the secret chambers;' believe it not."

1 Thessalonians 5:3
For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

Christ just told me to not believe anything you said about Him returning


I don't date set and I follow NO man,but we are to know the season,period,guess you think the world as we know it will just continue on forever....

Revelation 21:4 "And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away."


Are people still dying?

It sure is hard to even think that this stuff could be believed, huh?
But still, 'they' are Prophecy of what 'the Very Ellect' will find!

As the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from earth (as it is being done..look around! see Gen. 6:3) we will see about everything that satan 'winds' around, believed by the Matt. 7 Broadway ones & earth's last ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones. Rev. 17:1-5

--Elijah

 

[Sinthesis]

It sure is hard to even think that this stuff could be believed, huh?
But still, 'they' are Prophecy of what 'the Very Ellect' will find!

As the Holy Spirit is being withdrawn from earth (as it is being done..look around! see Gen. 6:3) we will see about everything that satan 'winds' around, believed by the Matt. 7 Broadway ones & earth's last ABOMINATION OF THE EARTH ones. Rev. 17:1-5

--Elijah

2 No it's not, the Holy Spirit is Gods gift to us.

Luk 11:13 - If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall [your] heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?​

What kind of depressing false gospel do you believe in?

Remember the Pharisee so enamored of his own self-righteousness as he looks down his nose at those he believes aren't as GODLY as he? Luke 18:10-14
:waving

1Th 4:7 - For God hath not called us unto uncleanness, but unto holiness.
1Th 4:8 - He therefore that despiseth, despiseth not man, but God, who hath also given unto us his holy Spirit.​

 

[Drew]

Matthew 24:6 "And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

The fact that there was a war,and the fact that wars are still going on should tell you that Christ has not returned.....

This is circular reasoning. You are importing the assumption that the "end" at issue is the second coming of Jesus. This teaching from Jesus works perfectly well with the notion that this prophecy was fulfilled in first century, if the "end" at issue is the end of a particular chapter in God's unfolding history, namely the end of Israel as a "special" nation, and not the second coming.

 

[Lehigh3]

This is circular reasoning. You are importing the assumption that the "end" at issue is the second coming of Jesus. This teaching from Jesus works perfectly well with the notion that this prophecy was fulfilled in first century, if the "end" at issue is the end of a particular chapter in God's unfolding history, namely the end of Israel as a "special" nation, and not the second coming.

Ugh. And I guess some magical "gap" theory rupturing the continuous discourse on the Mt. of Olives from all Matt. 24 through Matt.25 is so much better?!

Jesus says He returns at the end of Old Covenant Israel!

Matthew 24:1-3 NKJV,
Jesus Predicts the Destruction of the Temple

1 Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.â€The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age


3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?â€

Now, read Jesus' answers to his disciples in ALL of Matt.24 & ending with Matt.25 parables relating to the same time.

 

[n2thelight]

This is circular reasoning. You are importing the assumption that the "end" at issue is the second coming of Jesus. This teaching from Jesus works perfectly well with the notion that this prophecy was fulfilled in first century, if the "end" at issue is the end of a particular chapter in God's unfolding history, namely the end of Israel as a "special" nation, and not the second coming.

As it is written,there are only 2 dispensations,Christ coming the first time and His coming the second time,which is the end....The end of Israel as a nation,was prophecised,however also the return of Israel as a nation,with the good and the bad fig dwelling there together,with the bad taken out at that second coming,which could not had happened yet, for the simple fact that the bad figs are still there....

You all keep trying to say that He did return a second time,can you please show me where in scripture He returned after He was taken up to heaven,per the below verse

Acts 1:11
Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

When did He go to Heaven prior to this verse,in order to return He had to have went.....

 

[Drew]

As it is written,there are only 2 dispensations,Christ coming the first time and His coming the second time,which is the end....

You cannot assume this. I suggest that in Matthew 24, Jesus is not referring to his "second coming" in the sense of His visible return. He is instead talking about the end of the age of Israel.

And the fact that Jesus looks at the very temple that was destroyed in 70 AD and tells them that it will indeed be destroyed in their lifetime is powerful evidence for this view. In context, it is quite clear that the Matthew 24 treatment is a treatment of the imminent judgement that is about to befall Israel at the hands of the Romans.

There is still the matter of the “parousia” – the coming of Jesus. An objector to my assertion will no doubt argue that the Matthew 24 material cannot be about the events of 70 AD since we all know that Jesus did not “come to us” in 70 AD. Well, one needs to understand that “parousia” means “presence” – the word in and of itself does not necessitate a reading where Jesus descends to us from the heavens. And the word is often used in relation to the visit of a royal person. The important point for present purposes is that “parousia” can legitimately be seen to denote enthronement, and need not connote literal travel from point A to point B.

Remember now what the disciples are waiting for. It is that Jesus be enthroned at King. Remember also what has recently happened in the Temple. Jesus has gone in and upset the tables of the vendors. Most people see this as a protest against “commercialization” of the holy temple. Although I will not argue the point here, I believe that Jesus is pronouncing symbolic judgement on the temple, enacting its imminent destruction through the agency of Rome.

Either way, Jesus’ action in the temple would have clear Messianic interpretations for any Jew familiar with the Old Testament and with recent Jewish history. It is specifically the King who is the one who has authority over the temple (think of David ordering the building of the temple and Solomon completing, not to mention other similar figures in the Jewish tradition, such as Simon Ben Kosibar). So when Jesus does His thing in the temple, his disciples will see this as a claim of kingship.

All this works together to help us see that when they ask Jesus about his “coming” (parousia), they are really asking about the time when He will be installed as King – they are not asking Him when He will return to earth in a 2nd coming (they have no concept of a second coming to begin with) And lest there be any misunderstanding, it is clear from the New Testament that Jesus is not waiting to be enthroned at a second coming – He has already been installed 2000 years ago as a sitting King. So my hypothesis about the meaning of the material in Matthew 24 is entirely consistent with the disciples’ question about the parousia – Jesus comes into His Kingship as the old age of the temple passes away.

 

[Drew]

So from what I can get from that verse. The Sun is going to go out and the Earth will then turn to 300 below zero. The Sun is a small star and is over 10,000 times bigger than the Earth, and the verse claims that stars will fall to the Earth. Completely impossible.

A huge problem in 21st century evangelicalism is the tendency to read metaphoric language as literal.

The Old Testament manifests a well-established tradition of using such "cosmic, end-of-the-world" language to, in fact, refer to socio-political change.

And this is how Jesus is using such language as well.

 

[Lehigh3]

All this works together to help us see that when they ask Jesus about his “coming” (parousia), they are really asking about the time when He will be installed as King – they are not asking Him when He will return to earth in a 2nd coming (they have no concept of a second coming to begin with) And lest there be any misunderstanding, it is clear from the New Testament that Jesus is not waiting to be enthroned at a second coming – He has already been installed 2000 years ago as a sitting King. So my hypothesis about the meaning of the material in Matthew 24 is entirely consistent with the disciples’ question about the parousia – Jesus comes into His Kingship as the old age of the temple passes away.

Wha??! The apostles asked Jesus - WHAT WERE THE SIGNS they should look for!
And He was offered to be King on an earthly throne & turned them down! John 6:15.

"as the old age of the temple fades away" Are you kidding me? The "temple" Jesus was pointing to was surely a present & MATERIAL building that would be destroyed at the end of the age- That was their question- "when shall all these things be, & what are the signs of your coming & the end of the age!"

 

[n2thelight]

Drew

There is still the matter of the “parousia†– the coming of Jesus. An objector to my assertion will no doubt argue that the Matthew 24 material cannot be about the events of 70 AD since we all know that Jesus did not “come to us†in 70 AD. Well, one needs to understand that “parousia†means “presence†– the word in and of itself does not necessitate a reading where Jesus descends to us from the heavens. And the word is often used in relation to the visit of a royal person. The important point for present purposes is that “parousia†can legitimately be seen to denote enthronement, and need not connote literal travel from point A to point B.

The below is the literal from point A. to point B. 2nd coming of Christ,from Heaven...

Zechariah 14:4 (Whole Chapter)
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

The Holy Spirit in the below verse,is the presence,if you will...


John 16:7
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Bottom line,Christ did not return in AD 70

 

[n2thelight]

Wha??! The apostles asked Jesus - WHAT WERE THE SIGNS they should look for!
And He was offered to be King on an earthly throne & turned them down! John 6:15.

"as the old age of the temple fades away" Are you kidding me? The "temple" Jesus was pointing to was surely a present & MATERIAL building that would be destroyed at the end of the age- That was their question- "when shall all these things be, & what are the signs of your coming & the end of the age!"

So what age are we in now?

 

[jasoncran]

ah yes we live in heaven after death and the sinners keep reproducing and the earth is never redeemed from the curse of adams fall.

on boudica. lol. that all happened in 60 ce. in eight yrs do you think the church knew of that? wars has always been part of the pax romana and roman empire.

BOUDICCA

i guess the entire jewish nation was killed off as its the end of isreal.lol

my my, theres more to the jews then land, what in the worl keeps them going despite the loss of land for thousands of years. is it the tanakh or some promise that wasnt fulfilled and the reason why the pharisees and today the jews reject christ? hmm me thinks so.

while false christs and wars isnt new , i dont see that in the context says that it would increase though the intensity of war has. surely rome has nothing on the german war machine. the jap war machine and american army and also the idea that we americans murdered many a indians for land all in the name of manifest destiny.

i believe that in the context of that saying these things will be and then the lord will come. if you take the fig tree parable as that it makes darn sense.not mention when looking what the lord said on the temple being destroyed.

 

[Drew]

Wha??! The apostles asked Jesus - WHAT WERE THE SIGNS they should look for!

And how does my post not work with this? It is perfectly sensible for Jesus to be articulating the signs of the end of the "present age" of Israel, an end which, just as Jesus said, came about within the generation to whom He was talking.

And He was offered to be King on an earthly throne & turned them down! John 6:15.

That is because the time was not right. Jesus chose the time, not the apostles. Surely you are not suggesting that Jesus was not enthroned as king of the world 2000 years ago? If you are, I will present you with so many Biblical arguments that He is already king, it will make your head spin.

"as the old age of the temple fades away" Are you kidding me? The "temple" Jesus was pointing to was surely a present & MATERIAL building that would be destroyed at the end of the age- That was their question- "when shall all these things be, & what are the signs of your coming & the end of the age!"

Not sure what your point is. I am simply honouring the text, as well as the Jewish sense of the word "parousia".

The fact that Jesus tells his listeners that their own generation would witness all these things proves that Jesus must have been talking about the fall of Israel to the Romans.

 

[Drew]

The below is the literal from point A. to point B. 2nd coming of Christ,from Heaven...

Zechariah 14:4 (Whole Chapter)
And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

If you are saying that Zechariah 14 deals with the future physical return of Jesus, I would disagree with that.

First post in a series addressing Zechariah 14:

Zechariah 14 describes an attack on Jerusalem by pagan nations, its capture and the exile of some of its inhabitants, the flight of others, the appearance of God as King and His victory over the attacking nations, the securing of Jerusalem, its “raising upâ€, the flow of Gentiles to Jerusalem to worship God as king, and finally an allusion to the clearing of traders from the temple.

I get the impression that many see this chapter as describing some apocalyptic events in the future. I do not share this view – I see the chapter as describing events that were fulfilled in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus.
First, a point about apocalyptic language. In Zechariah 14, we have images of the Mount of Olives being split in half (v. 4), strange aberrations in the day / night cycle (v 6-7), and horrific images of a plague brought against soldiers that causes their bodies to rot on the spot (v. 12).

Did the prophet in the reader to take these images literally? Not likely. Such “over the top†apocalyptic images appear in numerous Old Testament prophecies to invest much more “common-place†events with their theological significance. In short, such wild images tell the reader that something significant is happening, but the images themselves are certainly not to be taken literally. Obviously, there has been no apocalyptic event at Jerusalem with mountains being split in two and soldiers rotting away in the thousands. But this is no reason to argue that the prophecies of Zechariah 14 have yet to be fulfilled.

I suggest that the events leading up and including the crucifixion and resurrection constitute fulfillment of the Zechariah 14 prophecies. The structure of my argument will be this: First, I will focus on the Matthew 24 discourse, showing that Jesus evokes and re-enforces many of the themes of Zechariah 14. As this argument unfolds, I will, as appropriate, weave in arguments that material in both texts suggests a reference to events of Jesus’ own day, not end time events. After completing the treatment of Matthew 24 in relation to Zechariah 14, I will expand my treatment outward from Matthew 24 to embrace other Biblical material which re-enforces the notion that Zechariah 14 has already been fulfilled.

....Other posts to follow