Who is the "generation of the figtree?"

[Stormcrow]

Luke 21:29-32
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. KJV

What generation "shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled"? The generation who: "when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand"

When ye see what "things come to pass"? The things that Jesus just listed in the verses prior to the above Parable of the Fig Tree" verses.

Many confuse who Jesus is speaking of. While He is speaking to those seated at His feet, He is speaking of the endtime generation. What Jesus spoke to their ears was written down for our eyes some 2000 years later. Below we will publish those verses that Jesus was referring to when He said "So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand."

But first it must be observed that the words "ye" and "you" in the above "So likewise ye, when ye see" are plural words, not singular. In other words, Jesus was not speaking to "thee" and "thy," which are singular pronouns in the King James Bible, but He was speaking in the plural to us as well as those seated before Christ. Actually, Jesus was in the company of only four men when He delivered Mark chapter 13: "Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately" (Mk 13:3b). But what He said to them was for all Christians that were to be living when those things came to pass.

In other words, "this generation" is the generation that shall see "these things," and it is not the generation that He was addressing, for they never saw those things. It was us, the final generation; we shall see "these things" and our generation "shall not pass, till all these things be done."

So let me see if I understand what you're saying: the "ye" and "your own selves" in verse 30 refers to the disciples seated at His feet, but the "ye" and "you" in verses 31 and 32 refer to us???



Any way you slice it, this has to be one of the most absurd stretches I have ever read in the attempt to prop up a completely vapid doctrine.

Oy!

Actually, Jesus was in the company of only four men when He delivered Mark chapter 13

One more thing: His use of the plural "you" doesn't need to include "us"! He was talking to four of them!!!!
Let me see if I can recall my 1st grade reading...more than one is PLURAL!!! Four is more than one, so four is......wait for it...........PLURAL!!!

So yes, why would He address more than one of them - but less than five of them - but more than three of them IN THE SINGULAR?!?!?!?!? :o

Is there any other passage in the Bible - so plainly and simply stated - that suffers this same kind of liberal, relativistic approach to interpretation???

 

[Stormcrow]

When God decides to make it so, there will be no question as to when, how, who and why it happens.

He told us when it would happen:

{39} "For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'" Matthew 23:39 (NASB)
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Given that He told the disciples to mind their own business when it came to restoring the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:7), it seems as though if Christ is ever to leave the right hand of the father to return in bodily form to rule this earth would depend on if and when the Jews recognize Him as Messiah.

But I have to ask: given many of the problems we see in churches today, and in the name-calling and vitriol that frequently happens in forums such as this between "Christians", I simply don't see any compelling reason - based on the examples many Christians set - that would draw Jews out of Synagogues and into Churches, God's grace notwithstanding.

In other words, is there anything in the life of an average Christian that makes a Jew desire the life we live in Christ? If not, we have a serious problem.

 

[jasoncran]

1948 doesn't count, IMO. They became a political, secular state that hardly resembles or represents the Biblical nation of Israel at all. It was a resolution by the United Nations that eventually helped to establish, what was called at the time, a Jewish state. But... today's Israel is more secular than the USA.

Sometimes I wonder, are they really fighting to retain the land God originally gave them are are they just fighting to preserve the original boundaries as they were in 1948? Either one is fine with me. But I just don't want to substitute one motive for another.

When God decides to make it so, there will be no question as to when, how, who and why it happens.

most jews dont practice judiasm. many are athiests or some type of mix. besides. what isreal is today isnt what she will be in the day God does do what he said he would do. thus my reference often to the two stick prophecies. more jews live in america then an isreal and wont move to isreal but they support her.

i wouldnt move there. why? i like peace!

 

[n2thelight]

most jews dont practice judiasm. many are athiests or some type of mix. besides. what isreal is today isnt what she will be in the day God does do what he said he would do. thus my reference often to the two stick prophecies. more jews live in america then an isreal and wont move to isreal but they support her.

i wouldnt move there. why? i like peace!

That's it,right there,the two sticks have not yet been joined back together,when Christ returns,they will be...Our generation will see this,the generation in 70ad could not have.....

 

[n2thelight]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]May 14th 1948 Israel became a nation once more with a homeland. The fig tree blossomed. The fig tree that appeared to be dead, dry, withered and hopeless, suddenly springs back to life, putting forth branches, sprouting leaves, blossoming, producing fruit, and putting down deep roots. The fig tree blossomed. Just like Jesus said would happen. Israel must be born again if you would, nationally, and it happened in 1948.[/FONT]



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[taromina2003]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]May 14th 1948 Israel became a nation once more with a homeland. The fig tree blossomed. The fig tree that appeared to be dead, dry, withered and hopeless, suddenly springs back to life, putting forth branches, sprouting leaves, blossoming, producing fruit, and putting down deep roots. The fig tree blossomed. Just like Jesus said would happen. Israel must be born again if you would, nationally, and it happened in 1948.[/FONT]​

I believe this too.

 

[Lehigh3]

I believe this too.

Christian zionists believe that more than the Jewish zionists. Go figure!

And I would like to see where Jesus said that too.

It's not true. What's true is what God told Israel in Deut.28. You do well to read it.

God left the temple made with hands in AD70. "And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched. They shall be an abhorrence to all flesh." (Isa.66:24)

God's prophetic judgment sounds pretty final to me there!

 

[Stormcrow]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]May 14th 1948 Israel became a nation once more with a homeland. The fig tree blossomed. The fig tree that appeared to be dead, dry, withered and hopeless, suddenly springs back to life, putting forth branches, sprouting leaves, blossoming, producing fruit, and putting down deep roots. The fig tree blossomed. Just like Jesus said would happen. Israel must be born again if you would, nationally, and it happened in 1948.[/FONT]​

Please! Once and for all stop this silliness with the fig tree! The fig tree (AND ALL THE TREES) parable is in reference to Jerusalem's DESOLATION, NOT HER RESTORATION! READ IT IN CONTEXT!!!

Israel must be born again if you would, nationally

Jesus died to save individuals, NOT nations! "Corporate salvation" is what Liberation Theology teaches, and it's a lie straight out of the Marxist/Humanist playbook - you know, that "religion is the 'opiate of the people'" thing???

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[Stormcrow]

the two sticks have not yet been joined back together

I wonder if the apostle Paul would agree with that view.

{12} For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; Romans 10:12 (NASB)

{28}There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 (NASB)

{9} Do not lie to one another, since you laid aside the old self with its evil practices, {10} and have put on the new self who is being renewed to a true knowledge according to the image of the One who created him— {11} a renewal in which there is no distinction between Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all. Colossians 3:9-11 (NASB)

There's your "two sticks" joined together in Christ. Already happened for those who believe! :yes

 

[Vic C.]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times,New York]May 14th 1948 Israel became a nation once more with a homeland. The fig tree blossomed. The fig tree that appeared to be dead, dry, withered and hopeless, suddenly springs back to life, putting forth branches, sprouting leaves, blossoming, producing fruit, and putting down deep roots. The fig tree blossomed. Just like Jesus said would happen. Israel must be born again if you would, nationally, and it happened in 1948.[/FONT]



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I don't mind you posting that at all, but you need to provide the link/reference.

Thanks

...
Jesus died to save individuals, NOT nations! "Corporate salvation" is what Liberation Theology teaches, and it's a lie straight out of the Marxist/Humanist playbook - you know, that "religion is the 'opiate of the people'" thing???

2
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Corporate salvation may have been once, but it is no more. It stopped soon after the crucifixion/resurrection.

 

[warfrog]

the generation of the fig tree is the mention of the generation of man both wicked and His (saints) living together.

when death is destroyed in the lake of fire and the new heaven, new earth, New Jerusalem are presented with God the Father coming to dwell among men then that generation will have passed, for the former things have passed away, and the wicked no longer are with His, that generation will no longer exist.

"Now learn this parable from the fig tree; When its branch has already become tender and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. So you also, when you see all these things, know that it is near--at the doors! Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass till all these things take place. Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away"

verse 33 is telling you that all of the things Jesus just spoke about will occur, and when they do, know that summer is almost at hand, even at the doors, it isnt here after all these things He just mentioned but it is very very close.

verse 34 is telling you that this generation will not pass away until all of the things Christ just mentioned take place, until then it will not pass away, then the Lord goes even further and tells us Heaven and Earth will pass away, but His words will not, He is speaking of the saints who live through Christ, the Word, and shall be eternal through Him s He is eternal through Him, for He and God are One.

If you look at the other scriptures regarding when heaven and earth pass away you will know that until death is judged, wich accordng to 1 Corinthians 15:22-28 is the last enemy destroyed, and Rev 20:14-15 show that happening, which we are then given the vision of the old passing away and the new created where further in Rev 21 we are told no sin, wickedness exist again, then it is clear that the generation of the fig tree is spoken as the generation since the foundation, where wicked men and His men have existed alongside each other, that is the generation that shall not pass until all of those events spoken of by Christ are complete, that begins in Rev 21, that is when that generation has passed away.

 

[Lehigh3]

No, sorry, that interpretation (if that's what it's suppose to be) is someone's imagination on paper - & it's not the Bible!

David Chilton (1996)
"Some have sought to get around the force of this text by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die out until all these things took place. Is that true? I challenge you: Get out your concordance and look up every New Testament occurrence of the word generation (in Greek, genea) and see if it ever means 'race' in any other context. Here are all the references for the Gospels: Matthew 1:17; 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12, 38; 9:19; 13:30; Luke 1:48, 50; 7:31; 9:41; 11:29, 30, 31, 32, 50, 51; 18:8; 17:25; 21:32. Not one of these references is speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time. It always refers to contemporaries. (In fact, those who say it means "race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word suddenly changes its meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24! We can smile at such a transparent error, but we should also remember that this is very serious. We are dealing with the Word of the living God.)." (The Great Tribulation, p. 3)

 

[warfrog]

No, sorry, that interpretation (if that's what it's suppose to be) is someone's imagination on paper - & it's not the Bible!

David Chilton (1996)
"Some have sought to get around the force of this text by saying that the word generation here really means race, and that Jesus was simply saying that the Jewish race would not die out until all these things took place. Is that true? I challenge you: Get out your concordance and look up every New Testament occurrence of the word generation (in Greek, genea) and see if it ever means 'race' in any other context. Here are all the references for the Gospels: Matthew 1:17; 11:16; 12:39, 41, 42, 45; 16:4; 17:17; 23:36; 24:34; Mark 8:12, 38; 9:19; 13:30; Luke 1:48, 50; 7:31; 9:41; 11:29, 30, 31, 32, 50, 51; 18:8; 17:25; 21:32. Not one of these references is speaking of the entire Jewish race over thousands of years; all use the word in its normal sense of the sum total of those living at the same time. It always refers to contemporaries. (In fact, those who say it means "race" tend to acknowledge this fact, but explain that the word suddenly changes its meaning when Jesus uses it in Matthew 24! We can smile at such a transparent error, but we should also remember that this is very serious. We are dealing with the Word of the living God.)." (The Great Tribulation, p. 3)

You say that my interpretation is wrong and then reply with another mans comments on race?

I do not speak of race, i speak of the generation of wicked and saints being together as Jesus was also speaking of, look at the parable, everything Jesus spoke of must occur in order for th generation of the fig tree to pass away, what is the end of the fig tree? There is no end, it exist forever and ever. Amen, however the generation does not, but will exist until everything spoken of occurs, the wicked will always be with the saints until heaven and earth pass away and even further the saints will always be, they are eternal through the Word, but the wicked are not and will be destroyed completely from ever existing with the saints as the earth and heaven pass away, when the last enemy is judged, death, then it will no longer occur ever again that the wicked will dwell among the saints, that generation will have passed away.

 

[Lehigh3]

You say that my interpretation is wrong and then reply with another mans comments on race?

I do not speak of race, i speak of the generation of wicked and saints being together as Jesus was also speaking of, look at the parable, everything Jesus spoke of must occur in order for th generation of the fig tree to pass away, what is the end of the fig tree? There is no end, it exist forever and ever. Amen, however the generation does not, but will exist until everything spoken of occurs, the wicked will always be with the saints until heaven and earth pass away and even further the saints will always be, they are eternal through the Word, but the wicked are not and will be destroyed completely from ever existing with the saints as the earth and heaven pass away, when the last enemy is judged, death, then it will no longer occur ever again that the wicked will dwell among the saints, that generation will have passed away.

"Everything spoken of, etc..." ???
I'm sorry, I cannot fathom what you are trying to say or describe.:
Do you think you can try to articulate an interpretation of the Parable of the Fig Tree, a little better, as the Preterist link (post #2) does?

 

[warfrog]

"Everything spoken of, etc..." ???
I'm sorry, I cannot fathom what you are trying to say or describe.:
Do you think you can try to articulate an interpretation of the Parable of the Fig Tree, a little better, as the Preterist link (post #2) does?

Jesus is teaching on the Mount of Olives, He speaks of many things just prior to the parable
The temples destruction isnt even part of what Jesus was speaking of, He spoke of that while they were at the temple, now He is on the mount of Olives and begins telling them of events that must occur.

Matthew 24:3-31

He speaks of all of those events, then He gives the parable of the fig tree and says all of it must occur first and then summer will be at the door, it wont be summer, but it will be very very near.
He also says in the parable: all of it, that He just spoke of on the Mount of Olives, must occur first for the generation to pass away, it cannot pass away until all of these things take place and occur.

In other words, the tribulation and the coming of the Son of Man must first take place and occur, when they do occur we will know that summer is at the doors! and that the generation cannot pass away until they do occur.

Jesus mentions heaven and earth passing away but His words never passing away because it signifies the blessed hope, the inheritance of the new heaven and earth, New Jerusalem and the dwelling of God the Father among His where wickedness will no longer dwell, which occurs when death has been destroyed and the earth and heaven present now passes away, in which the generation Jesus speaks of will have passed away, because wickedness no longer exist's with righteousness. "The former things have passed away"

We know through scripture that the saints are raised at His coming as He was raised, changed in the twinkling of an eye from corruption to incorruption through Him and shall be with the Lord forever and inherit Rev 21.
1 Corinthians 15:20-28 shows us that all men must literally die and all will be raised in his own order.
Christ Jesus
Christ's at His coming
The dead, which the last judged is Death in which we are told the Son will then submit Himself to the Father that God may be all in all.
That is when Rev 21 takes place in which death has now been destroyed and the heaven and earth have passed away, New Jerusalem is given as a bride adorned for her Husband and the Father's tabernacle, His dwelling place is among us, He is excepted, the former things will have all passed away, the generation will have passed away, summer occurs and the saints, Christ Jesus and the Father dwell among each other forever and ever. Amen.
His words will by no means pass away, ever.

 

[Sinthesis]

Corporate salvation may have been once, but it is no more. It stopped soon after the crucifixion/resurrection.

Corporate salvation never was. It has always been the faith of the individual in God.

 

[jasoncran]

when the nation of isreal does return to God via that verse saying as a nation. it means this.

the sanhedrin or religous leaders of the JEWS declare him to be the messiah and all those that agree with that statement repent like they did and they become saved.

that doesnt mean just because the jewish leaders say it all will agree. nor does it mean the isreal secular govt will agree just that a nation of beliviers of jewish ancestry believes as a group.

a doctrinal statement like the pope speaking ex cathedris and the catholics amening to that. i believe that occcures when isreal tries to get the messiah to return or come in their pov via the ways of the torah. that was imho the jews will be in jersusalem and the present day isreal isnt their but a shell of what Glory will be for those their that do believe when the sandhedrin proclaim that jesus christ is lord. i dont believe it will be a time of peace, or safety but in a dire situation. perhaps when isreal is like this.


zechariah 12


7The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

we dont know when this will occure therefore this former pre-tribber thinks its unlike this generation pertains to the date of 1948. though not an insignificant date fully. just a symbol hes coming and were a little closer to that date.

look and listen you futurists. jesus in the bible stated its not for us to know the times or season of the restoration. be honest and think we dont know and werent meant to!

stop following the likes of hal lindsey.

 

[Lehigh3]

jason,
Zech.12 already occurred with the coming of Christ's 1st advent - & Zech.12 continues on to speak of both judgment & deliverance through Zech.14. The siege against Judah & Jerusalem is the same great & terrible day of the Lord as in Malachi 4.
The 1/3 that would be left in Jerusalem (Zech 13:8) was the remnant of Israel.

Earthly Jerusalem would be replaced by the spiritual & holy new Jerusalem (Zech.14:10)

 

[jasoncran]

jason,
Zech.12 already occurred with the coming of Christ's 1st advent - & Zech.12 continues on to speak of both judgment & deliverance through Zech.14. The siege against Judah & Jerusalem is the same great & terrible day of the Lord as in Malachi 4.
The 1/3 that would be left in Jerusalem (Zech 13:8) was the remnant of Israel.

Earthly Jerusalem would be replaced by the spiritual & holy new Jerusalem (Zech.14:10)

when did jerusalem tell jesus barauchba be shem adonai?

ye shall not see me till ye say... he was saying that in front of the temple. the adresse was the priesthood.

did the lord defend isreal then? no he judged them.

 

[Lehigh3]

when did jerusalem tell jesus barauchba be shem adonai?

What is that? Shalom, my friend? :D

Anyhoo. Zech12-13 & 14 depict both advents. Don't forget some of Israel repented (Acts.2:36-39.)

Yes, but the 2/3 rejected Him - & faced the wrath to come. John the Baptist called them a "brood of vipers"