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Who is this Christ at the right hand of God?

Anth said:
Free

I appreciate your thought - however, I am at a loss.

We don't even know who saved us???

We don't even know who was that cried out God "not My will be done..."

We don't know know who it is that is sitting next God???

What kind of religion is this?? What kind of Savior is that - whom is not even known by those who claim his name...

I am especially bothered by these same people condemning others for not believing whatever it is that they believe - but then not even knowing what it is that they believe. OUCH!!!! :crying

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...
Yes, we do know who saved us. God did through Jesus. Jesus is truly God and truly man; the God-man. That is all there is to it. You keep trying to split the mystery of the Incarnation and it can't be done.
 
Pretty deep, but it's not all that difficult if one pays attention to what's written there in Hebrews. The Scripture means what it says, and it still means Jesus is fully God too, per Hebrews 1.

Heb 2:9-10
9 But we see Jesus, Who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that He by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
10 For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and by Whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
(KJV)

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
(KJV)

What kind of body was our Lord Jesus in prior to His being born in the flesh through Mary's womb?

The Only Begotten Son Title is about Christ's conception in the flesh through woman's womb, for what purpose? To die on the cross, partaking of flesh and blood that through death He might destroy the devil and the power of death, and release us from bondage. He was fully God before, and while in the flesh, and being raised to sit on the right hand of The Father shows He still is. So the "made a little lower than the angels" MUST include that "for the suffering of death" part! That is how He was made (born in the flesh) to be a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, for that was about His conception in the flesh through Mary, so as to die on the cross. What angel had done that? None.


Heb 2:16-18
16 For verily He took not on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham.
17 Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His brethren, that He might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18 For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succour them that are tempted.
(KJV)

What's the idea there? God The Son came in the flesh to suffer like us, yet because He is God, He only was able to suffer and die in the flesh and be without sin, having the Power to save all those born in the flesh that believe on Him. So the 'made' idea in Heb.2 is about that flesh work of being born like us and dying on the cross, and not His True Nature as part of The Godhead Eternal Everlasting.
 
Free

I appreciate your objection - yet it seems that the decision has already been made in the statement

Two natures in one person....

The issue is - who is the one person - and who got left out??

Best,
Anth
 
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death,
Click to expand...

Vet

Thanks for this interesting text which focuses on the fact that Jesus had to be a genuine man in order to save mankind - in contrast to the common medieval teaching that he had to be God in order to save...

I love the word of God because it always exposes the fables of tradition and asserts itself.

Best,
Anth
 
Anth said:
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death,
Click to expand...

Vet

Thanks for this interesting text which focuses on the fact that Jesus had to be a genuine man in order to save mankind - in contrast to the common medieval teaching that he had to be God in order to save...

I love the word of God because it always exposes the fables of tradition and asserts itself.

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...

Are you intending to ONLY take out of the Scripture what you want personally? The Bible NEVER shows that Jesus lost His Divine Godhead Nature while He was in the flesh. Instead, The Bible shows He was still God while born in the flesh, because that's the only way ANYONE could be born in the flesh and be totally without sin!

Heb 4:15
15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
(KJV)

Gal 3:22
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(KJV)

Now if you don't believe that Christ Jesus was God in the flesh, then do you even claim His sacrifice on the cross for your Salvation?
 
Anth said:
Free

I appreciate your thought - however, I am at a loss.

We don't even know who saved us???

We don't even know who was that cried out God "not My will be done..."

We don't know know who it is that is sitting next God???

What kind of religion is this?? What kind of Savior is that - whom is not even known by those who claim his name...

I am especially bothered by these same people condemning others for not believing whatever it is that they believe - but then not even knowing what it is that they believe. OUCH!!!! :crying

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...

LOL You're the only one who doesn't seem to know who saved us.
 
glorydaz said:
Anth said:
Free

I appreciate your thought - however, I am at a loss.

We don't even know who saved us???

We don't even know who was that cried out God "not My will be done..."

We don't know know who it is that is sitting next God???

What kind of religion is this?? What kind of Savior is that - whom is not even known by those who claim his name...

I am especially bothered by these same people condemning others for not believing whatever it is that they believe - but then not even knowing what it is that they believe. OUCH!!!! :crying

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...

LOL You're the only one who doesn't seem to know who saved us.
Click to expand...
:yes
 
Cool. :thumb

It seems there's a difference of opinion about the Trinity. Please don't allow this difference of belief to get out of hand.
 
Rick

I think everything is good in this thread...

The phrase was used to - I am not sure the best way to put it - but sort of tongue in cheek - to show the logical outcome of a particular thought. And, thus, hopefully to generate some independent thinking. Nothing more than that.

Best,
Anth
 
LOL You're the only one who doesn't seem to know who saved us.
Click to expand...

OK then - please help this poor soul out....

Did the human person - the man Christ Jesus - the one who cried out - "not MY will be done..." - did He save us??

Or, did the divine person - God the Son - save us??

If they both did... we will see and fellowship with both Jesus' in heaven....along with the Father...

Best,
Anth
 
Rick W said:
glorydaz said:
LOL You're the only one who doesn't seem to know who saved us.
Click to expand...

DarcyLu said:
:yes
Click to expand...

Whoa there. Not so fast all.
Where did this "don't know who saved us" thing come from?
Click to expand...

It came from all his questions throughout this thread, and his saying we don't know who saved us.

He keeps asking which tells me he doesn't know...else why ask?
Of course adding that we don't know prompted my reply, since everyone else seems to know, and Anth, admittedly doesn't. I meant no more than what I said...and anything further should not be implied by my response.
 
Anth said:
LOL You're the only one who doesn't seem to know who saved us.
Click to expand...

OK then - please help this poor soul out....

Did the human person - the man Christ Jesus - the one who cried out - "not MY will be done..." - did He save us??

Or, did the divine person - God the Son - save us??

If they both did... we will see and fellowship with both Jesus' in heaven....along with the Father...

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...

We're saved by the grace of God. There is only one God.
God came in the flesh to take our sins on Himself....born on a body of flesh.
You keep trying to separate God from Jesus...it can't be done.
A pure sacrifice was needed....no human being is perfect....it had to be God in the flesh (Jesus).
1 Peter 2:24 said:
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Click to expand...
 
God came in the flesh to take our sins on Himself....born on a body of flesh.
Click to expand...

So what I am hearing is that you don't actually believe that Jesus was a genuine man - just God wrapped in some kind of human garment.

With all due respect, I can't go there. Scripture is direct and specific... starting with 1Tim2:5, ICor15:20,21, running through Heb 2, through Jn 8, through the Book of Acts, Deut, etc., etc. I - if Jesus is not a genuine, complete human being - human person - we don't have salvation.

I guess we leave it at that - I worship the man Christ Jesus as taught plainly in scripture.

Best,
Anth
 
now, what a minute, you denied that jesus had the diety and was only a man. Now you say that he has both the Nature of man and God. He was indeed both man and god.
 
Anth said:
God came in the flesh to take our sins on Himself....born on a body of flesh.
Click to expand...

So what I am hearing is that you don't actually believe that Jesus was a genuine man - just God wrapped in some kind of human garment.

With all due respect, I can't go there. Scripture is direct and specific... starting with 1Tim2:5, ICor15:20,21, running through Heb 2, through Jn 8, through the Book of Acts, Deut, etc., etc. I - if Jesus is not a genuine, complete human being - human person - we don't have salvation.

I guess we leave it at that - I worship the man Christ Jesus as taught plainly in scripture.

Best,
Anth
Click to expand...

Guess you're not hearing. I don't know what else to say.
Jesus was God come in the flesh...therefore He was both man and God.
I'm not really sure why that is so hard to figure out.
We don't have to choose either or when He was both at the same time.
 
Anth,

If you don't think a fully man/fully God person makes any sense when it comes to being able to die and save us - think about the alternative...

1. You would have a human sitting next to God in heaven surrounded by worshiping angels sharing in the glory of God. Scripture is clear that God doesn't share His glory with anyone.

2. You would have a human spirit dwelling within the spirits of all believers throughout the world.
Romans 8:10 "And if Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of Righteousness." Jesus has to be omnipresent in order to dwell with all believers.

3. You would have a human able to hear the prayers of everyone on earth at the same time, be able to recognize those prayers, know who is speaking them, and be able to answer them. Since Jesus says we can pray to him "If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it." (John 14:14) - he must be omniscient.

It seems very logical to conclude that if Jesus shares the Father's glory, is omnipresent, and is omniscient, than he can't be a regular human.
 
Jesus was God come in the flesh
Click to expand...

God coming in the flesh is not a genuine man - scripture teaches that Jesus is a genuine man. God come in the flesh is simply a person of God wrapping himself in elements of humanity - that does not equal a man (unless you know something about yourself that I don't.)

The issue is who is the "He" that you are referring to. That is where your answer is.

Best,
Anth
 
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