Who nailed Him ?

[smaller]

You're standing in a crowd. Someone throws a grenade into the crowd. You have an opportunity to dive for cover. But, instead, you dive on top of the grenade. It explodes, killing only you. You saved the crowd.

Do you think it would be anything less than ludicrous for authorities to say you weren't murdered because you gave your life freely?

Jesus was murdered, by the children of Satan. And, the offenders were judged and executed in 70AD.

Far be it from me to question this potential anti-Semitic drivel.

s

 

[Hammer]

Far be it from me to question this potential anti-Semitic drivel.

s

You are seeking to kill Me... You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning. - Jesus

You should take up your charge of anti-semetic drivel with Jesus. I'm just concerned with avoiding anti-Christian drivel.

 

[smaller]

You are seeking to kill Me... You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning. - Jesus

You should take up your charge of anti-semetic drivel with Jesus. I'm just concerned with avoiding anti-Christian drivel.

Let's just cut to the chase.

Were those Jews Satan or not? (OR children of the devil, by being Jews, if you prefer.) Satan and his own are all of 'one' evil kingdom so 'Satan or children/his own' doesn't matter term wise.

???

s

 

[Pard]

The Romans did the physical act of nailing, though it was not the Romans who sentenced Him to death. The Jews sentenced Him to death and the Romans, in fear of an uprising, allowed the Jewish sentence to carry through. Clearly the Romans should not have allowed the execution to happen, Jesus was not guilty of anything and Pilate knew this. Pilate acknowledged that Jesus was innocent and then allowed the Jews to do with Him as they wished. This is important because it places an equal (albeit different type) amount of blame on both parties. The Jews killed an innocent man and the Romans, as the authority in the land, did not exercise their duty to stop an injustice from happening.

I think that it is revealing to the nature and ability of conviction and conversion that the first person to proclaim Christ as who He truly is was a Roman soldier. The grace of God came first to the Jews and then to the Gentiles, but to the Jews it comes very stubbornly, whereas the gentiles have a much easier time coming to Christ.

 

[Hammer]

The Romans did the physical act of nailing, though it was not the Romans who sentenced Him to death. The Jews sentenced Him to death and the Romans, in fear of an uprising, allowed the Jewish sentence to carry through.

Men of Israel... this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross... and put Him to death. - Peter

Clearly the Romans should not have allowed the execution to happen, Jesus was not guilty of anything and Pilate knew this.

Pilate was trying to prevent thousands of innocent people from dying. Pilate didn't want a Jewish rebellion on his hands. Jesus also helped Pilate to follow through on the execution by telling Pilate that the Jews are guilty of a greater sin. Pilate heroically tried to save Jesus. In the end, he chose what he saw as the lessor of two evils that he was stuck between.

 

[Pard]

Thank you for summarizing my post! Although I do not wish to be attached to the very post-modern concept of "less of two evils". Evil is evil and should be avoided always. It doesn't matter if it is "less" than another evil, is one sin "less" than another in God's eyes? Surely not! Sin is sin, and evil is evil. Pilate was wrong not to defend Jesus through to the end, that's all there is to it. He did a very bad thing by allowing an innocent man to die, even if the innocent man eased his conscience by saying it was OK. Pilate had the duty to stand up against injustice. It doesn't matter if a million Jews were going to riot, he would not have been at fault for their rioting, but he is at fault, in part, for Jesus' execution.

The equal blame for Jesus' execution, between Jew and Gentile, is REQUIRED for an equal atonement! Please don't try to destroy my atonement just because you want to take Cartman's view and blame the Jews entirely.

 

[smaller]

Thank you for summarizing my post! Although I do not wish to be attached to the very post-modern concept of "less of two evils". Evil is evil and should be avoided always. It doesn't matter if it is "less" than another evil, is one sin "less" than another in God's eyes? Surely not! Sin is sin, and evil is evil. Pilate was wrong not to defend Jesus through to the end, that's all there is to it. He did a very bad thing by allowing an innocent man to die, even if the innocent man eased his conscience by saying it was OK. Pilate had the duty to stand up against injustice. It doesn't matter if a million Jews were going to riot, he would not have been at fault for their rioting, but he is at fault, in part, for Jesus' execution.

The equal blame for Jesus' execution, between Jew and Gentile, is REQUIRED for an equal atonement! Please don't try to destroy my atonement just because you want to take Cartman's view and blame the Jews entirely.

All of the participants were in fact doing GODS WILL and exactly ZERO of them could have changed the matters.

The Life and Time of Jesus was planned in intimate detail long in advance by God Himself.

Exactly none of those events were the random actions of 'freewill agents' as some suppose, nor did God look into the future to see what all those random freewill agents were going to do and decide and then 'insert' a few details therein:

Acts 4:
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.


There was not one jot or tittle left to 'chance' or 'change' in the hands of any of them.


s

 

[Hammer]

Thank you for summarizing my post! Although I do not wish to be attached to the very post-modern concept of "less of two evils". Evil is evil and should be avoided always. It doesn't matter if it is "less" than another evil, is one sin "less" than another in God's eyes? Surely not! Sin is sin, and evil is evil. Pilate was wrong not to defend Jesus through to the end, that's all there is to it. He did a very bad thing by allowing an innocent man to die, even if the innocent man eased his conscience by saying it was OK. Pilate had the duty to stand up against injustice. It doesn't matter if a million Jews were going to riot, he would not have been at fault for their rioting, but he is at fault, in part, for Jesus' execution.

The equal blame for Jesus' execution, between Jew and Gentile, is REQUIRED for an equal atonement! Please don't try to destroy my atonement just because you want to take Cartman's view and blame the Jews entirely.

You are arguing against God, not against me. The Bible blames the Jews for killing Jesus, not gentiles. And, Jesus said the Jews were guilty of a greater sin than Pilate.

John 19:11b he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,

Choosing between two evils is only a sin if there's a third choice. Pilate didn't have a third choice, as his great labors to save Jesus proved. Pilate also had the duty to keep the peace with the Jews. It does matter if a million Jews rioted. And when the Jews did rebel within a generation lator, not only did a more than a million riot, but about a million were hellishly killed.

 

[smaller]

You are arguing against God, not against me. The Bible blames the Jews for killing Jesus, not gentiles. And, Jesus said the Jews were guilty of a greater sin than Pilate.

John 19:11b he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.

1 Thessalonians 2:14 For you, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God in Christ Jesus that are in Judea, for you also endured the same sufferings at the hands of your own countrymen, even as they did from the Jews, 15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,

Their blinding was both intentional and done by God.

So, who is there to charge?

?

 

[reba]

God sent Him to the Cross

The Jewish leaders of the day used the Romans to do the dirty work

He GAVE His life we are all guilty

Yet He lays it out here..
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Their whole way of (temple) life was ended, by the end of that generation.

 

[Hammer]

Their blinding was both intentional and done by God.

So, who is there to charge?

?

God is in charge. And, the Jews are guilty of murdering Jesus. Why do you believe the Bible when it says God hardened the Jews, but you don't believe the Bible when it blames the Jews for killing Jesus?

Romans 11:18 So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires. 19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who resists His will?†20 On the contrary, who are you, O man, who answers back to God? The thing molded will not say to the molder, “Why did you make me like this,†will it? 21 Or does not the potter have a right over the clay, to make from the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for common use? 22 What if God, although willing to demonstrate His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction?

 

[Hammer]

God sent Him to the Cross

The Jewish leaders of the day used the Romans to do the dirty work

He GAVE His life we are all guilty

Yet He lays it out here..
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Their whole way of (temple) life was ended, by the end of that generation.

From where do you get that we're all guilty of killing Jesus? Peter said the Jews nailed Jesus to the cross, using Roman hands. Why didn't Peter say the Jews, the Romans, and everyone killed Jesus? By what logic are you sins washed away by Christ's sacrifice, if His sacrifice makes you guilty of murder? And, how does accepting a free gift make you guilty of stealing that gift?

Why do you blame the jewish "leaders"? Peter said the Jews nailed Jesus to the cross. Why didn't Peter say the Jewish leaders nailed Jesus to the cross? Why does Paul refer to Jews in the context of countrymen as the killers of Jesus, rather than jewish leaders? And, by what logic do leaders not represent their own people?

You even quote Jesus condemning the Jews for killing and crucifying, with the hint that they would be guilty of killing Jesus. In the passage you quote, Jesus specifically identifies pharisees and scribes, neither of which are leaders. And, Jesus then condemns the "generation" and "Jerusalem", both indicating far more than just the leaders.

 

[reba]

Simply because He died for our sins.



I am not good with words but i like to talk!

The Jewsih leaders are guilty of the murder of the man Jesus having the dirty work done by the Romans. I believe God held them (jewish leaders ofthe day) responsible, and let em know it 70 ad.
God sent Him to be Thee Sacrifice for our redemption. We are responsible for our sins you for yours me for mine..Wiht out sin there would have been no need for the Cross....

Clear as mud

 

[smaller]

God sent Him to the Cross

The Jewish leaders of the day used the Romans to do the dirty work

He GAVE His life we are all guilty

Yet He lays it out here..
Mat 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
Mat 23:34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city: Mat 23:35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Mat 23:36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.
Their whole way of (temple) life was ended, by the end of that generation.

There is in fact no logical way for any of us to blame anybody for killing Jesus Christ.

He layed down His Own Life by Grand Design.

Prior temple destructions of various sorts were also a shadowing of the destruction of His Temple, His Body.

John 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

Temple destruction/captivity in Israel pointed to what was to come in Christ.

There are many showings in the Old that are shadows. Even for Babylon there are many showings in the Old that are shadows of Mystery Babylon.

Do any of us really think this speaks to literal bashing of children's heads on rocks?

Psalm 137:
8 O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be, that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us.
9 Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.


Uh, no.

s

 

[smaller]

God is in charge. And, the Jews are guilty of murdering Jesus. Why do you believe the Bible when it says God hardened the Jews, but you don't believe the Bible when it blames the Jews for killing Jesus?

The 'Bible' makes zero such claims. Some blinded ones may certainly be led to see that way.

Here is 'exactly' from Gods Own Mouth how "HE" sees Israel:

Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

Men of flesh see fleshly and can not see any other way.

We are not to judge or know any man via the flesh. There are other matters to look at.

s

 

[reba]

Why do you blame the jewish "leaders"? Peter said the Jews nailed Jesus to the cross. Why didn't Peter say the Jewish leaders nailed Jesus to the cross? Why does Paul refer to Jews in the context of countrymen as the killers of Jesus, rather than jewish leaders? And, by what logic do leaders not represent their own people?

Peter and Paul etc. were Jews.... Mary His mom was jew.... In my simple mind not every Jew in the land followed the leaders.... Nothing more than that.

So if you are an American you are responsible for the 3500 a day deaths of the abortionist?

 

[Hitch]

The 'Bible' makes zero such claims. Some blinded ones may certainly be led to see that way.

Here is 'exactly' from Gods Own Mouth how "HE" sees Israel:

Numbers 23:21
He hath not beheld iniquity in Jacob, neither hath he seen perverseness in Israel: the LORD his God is with him, and the shout of a king is among them.

Men of flesh see fleshly and can not see any other way.

We are not to judge or know any man via the flesh. There are other matters to look at.

s

You're off your nut.

 

[Hitch]

All of the participants were in fact doing GODS WILL and exactly ZERO of them could have changed the matters.

The Life and Time of Jesus was planned in intimate detail long in advance by God Himself.

Exactly none of those events were the random actions of 'freewill agents' as some suppose, nor did God look into the future to see what all those random freewill agents were going to do and decide and then 'insert' a few details therein:

Acts 4:
26 The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord, and against his Christ.
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.


There was not one jot or tittle left to 'chance' or 'change' in the hands of any of them.


s

None of which has anything to do with guilt or innocence.

 

[smaller]

You're off your nut.

Such heady one liners you have.

Look past the flesh and see the workings of EVIL therein. Instead blind men 'blame Jews.'

And of course these same never pin that same working in themselves.

Paul told every believer the factual condition of the unbelievers:

2 Corinthians 4:4
In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Every believer prior to GIVEN LIGHT had the exact same condition:

Ephesians 2:2
Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Yeah, let's just look at JEWS!

What a joke.

s

 

[smaller]

None of which has anything to do with guilt or innocence.

John 19:11
Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above