Bible Study Who's On The Narrow Road?

[JLB]

Scripture shows the status of the fallen believer:

1 Corinthians 5:5
To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

How people are led to see this matter obviously varies. I chalk that up to what they themselves are "led" to see, as obviously a LOT of believers can't see what is obvious to me.

This scripture is referring to "one" specific individual, and does not refer to all believers.

This believer who fell into sexual immorality with his fathers wife.

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
1 Corinthians 5:1-5


The person was delivered to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, which may have been a slow death by cancer or some similar disease, so that he would think about his coming death and repent, so as to be saved in the day of Christ.

This is the exception and is not true of all believers,

Satan had to be given access to this individual, as he had no right to destroy his flesh unless the Church, along with Paul granted him to do so.

...when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh,


JLB

 

[smaller]

This scripture is referring to "one" specific individual, and does not refer to all believers.

2 Timothy 3:16
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

In addition to Matt. 4:4, Luke 4:4. None of us can isolate ourselves from ANY scripture, applying it to "an individual" or "someone else" instead. What happened to that fallen believer can and DOES happen to many many.

This believer who fell into sexual immorality with his fathers wife.

Pick any sin you please. I'd consider the same action is in play. Such are given to Satan for the destruction of their flesh, SO THAT the spirit may be saved. What is MOST obvious is the involvement of Satan, NOT just the person. We can look at any believer fallen in SIN and find Satan involved also, just as with the example given and with warnings, MANY to us not to fall into Satan's clutches by entering the field of his domain and slaveship in the flesh.

I would go further to say any man who doesn't recognize that adultery in mind is a sin and is in fact SATANIC in origin already has one foot in Satan's domain of the spiritually blinded. Matt. 5:28. Most see this as "just themselves" or as "natural." It's not. It's internal temptation by the tempter, who RESISTS Gods Laws in the minds of man. Mark 4:15.

 

[JLB]

Pick any sin you please. I'd consider the same action is in play. Such are given to Satan for the destruction of their flesh, SO THAT the spirit may be saved. What is MOST obvious is the involvement of Satan, NOT just the person. We can look at any believer fallen in SIN and find Satan involved also, just as with the example given and with warnings, MANY to us not to fall into Satan's clutches by entering the field of his domain and slaveship.

Again, this was a specific instance where Paul instructed them to deliver this person to Satan, for the destruction of his flesh.

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.


Paul wanted to make an example of this individual to the Church at Corinth, because of their prideful attitude.

such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you.


This is not something that happened to every person who sinned, but was an isolated case involving this son who had fallen into sexual immorality with his father's wife.

Again, Satan didn't have access to destroy this man's flesh, until Paul and the Church turned this young man over to him, for the destruction of His flesh.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18



JLB

 

[smaller]

Again, this was a specific instance where Paul instructed them to deliver this person to Satan, for the destruction of his flesh.

The body is dead because of sin. No believer escapes this conclusion.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

When the "external actions" of sin in any believer get's out of hand, they are to be treated to the exact same treatment as the previous person in the scripture example. Satan is NOT to show his ugly face, openly, in the Body of Christ on earth. This does NOT mean the others are not sinners, but they keep the ADVERSARY in "checkmate."

It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! 2 And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you. 3 For I indeed, as absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged (as though I were present) him who has so done this deed. 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when you are gathered together, along with my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,5 deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Paul wanted to make an example of this individual to the Church at Corinth, because of their prideful attitude.

Call it what you will. Sin is of the devil in any case of sin. 1 John 3:8. Believers who sin in word or deed are openly slaves of Satan who can not control the adversary in their own flesh.

such sexual immorality as is not even named among the Gentiles—that a man has his father’s wife! And you are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he who has done this deed might be taken away from among you.

This is not something that happened to every person who sinned, but was an isolated case involving this son who had fallen into sexual immorality with his father's wife.

Like I said before, take your pick of sins. Same measure applies. It's all Satanic slavery.

Again, Satan didn't have access to destroy this man's flesh, until Paul and the Church turned this young man over to him, for the destruction of His flesh.

You and I disagree about the role of Satan and his enslavement of man and his likewise factual internal temptations. You think yourself immune. I think that is a deception of the tempter, making people falsely think that Satan is not involved with any sin, starting from thought, to word to deed.

There is no question to me that sin is DEMONIC. 1 John 3:8.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

You are also welcome to claim you are sinless. I don't buy that story from anyone, and consider that also to be demonic deception.

 

[JLB]

The body is dead because of sin. No believer escapes this conclusion.

Romans 8:10
And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

When the "external actions" of sin in any believer get's out of hand, they are to be treated to the exact same treatment as the previous person in the scripture example. Satan is NOT to show his ugly face, openly, in the Body of Christ on earth. This does NOT mean the others are not sinners, but they keep the ADVERSARY in "checkmate."

Your trying to change the subject.

...this was a specific instance where Paul instructed them to deliver this person to Satan, for the destruction of his flesh.

Call it what you will. Sin is of the devil in any case of sin. 1 John 3:8. Believers who sin in word or deed are openly slaves of Satan who can not control the adversary in their own flesh.

Sin is not the same thing as the devil.

He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil. 1 John 3:8

He who sins is of the devil.


JLB

 

[JLB]

You are also welcome to claim you are sinless. I don't buy that story from anyone, and consider that also to be demonic deception.

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18


Do you believe this scripture?



JLB

 

[smaller]

We know that whoever is born of God does not sin; but he who has been born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one does not touch him. 1 John 5:18

Do you believe this scripture?

Of course. Paul described the sin that dwelt in his flesh as "NO MORE I." Romans 7:17-21. Reiterated TWICE therein for "emphasis." He did not claim it was him. But neither did he claim to be SINLESS, by his own statements of fact. Paul was certainly no lying hypocrite, as the scriptures show us:

Romans 7:
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Do you see the adverse relationship there with SIN and LAW? I certainly do. We can see it again in Romans 7:13, proving that indwelling sin can not OBEY, but only DISOBEYS, by the command of the LAW and it's inverse relationship with the LAW. This essentially FORCES us into Gods Mercy and Grace in Christ, because we do not have a leg to stand on.

Romans 7:
14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Do you read that as "I used to be." If so, you might want to check to see who is inserting that thought?

Romans 7:
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.

Do you read that as "that I USED to do?" Or as it says, "that do I?"

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Again, do you read that as "evil, I used to do" or as Paul said it, THAT I DO?

All of these statements are statements of fact, from Paul, about what? About what "NO MORE I" that do it, DOES.

This brings Paul to understand his "wretched man" condition of HARD LINE FACT in Romans 7:24, and from this Paul understands that in the flesh, the sin that dwells in his flesh, and the evil present with him, IS for no uncertain fact under the PERMANENT CONDEMNATION of God in Christ. Romans 8:3.

This is what it means to be "sinner" saved by GRACE ALONE. And also why "legalists" and "works for salvation" claims don't have a CLUE.

1 Timothy 1:
15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Not, "I used to be."

 

[ezrider]

Where do people find Christ, on the broad way or in the narrow?

Do people find themselves trying to walk the narrow way in order to find Christ?
or
Do people look for Christ on the broad way, and when the find Him, do they trust that He will take them by the narrow way?

 

[JLB]

Of course. Paul described the sin that dwelt in his flesh as "NO MORE I." Romans 7:17-21. Reiterated TWICE therein for "emphasis." He did not claim it was him. But neither did he claim to be SINLESS, by his own statements of fact. Paul was certainly no lying hypocrite, as the scriptures show us:

Yes sin. Not Satan.

Romans 7:
8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.

Do you see the adverse relationship there with SIN and LAW? I certainly do. We can see it again in Romans 7:13, proving that indwelling sin can not OBEY, but only DISOBEYS, by the command of the LAW and it's inverse relationship with the LAW. This essentially FORCES us into Gods Mercy and Grace in Christ, because we do not have a leg to stand on.

But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:18


Paul encouraged the churches to live before God as being alive from the dead.

• To depart from Iniquity.

19 Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” 2 Timothy 2:19


To walk according to the Spirit.

I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Galatians 5:16-18


Those who live to practice the works of the flesh, will not inherit the kingdom of God, but will be cast into hell with the devil and his angels.

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery,fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Galatians 5:19-21


All the twisting of scriptures will not change this truth.



JLB

 

[JLB]

Romans 7:
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Again, do you read that as "evil, I used to do" or as Paul said it, THAT I DO?

All of these statements are statements of fact, from Paul, about what? About what "NO MORE I" that do it, DOES.

Paul like all of us, had to learn the principle of the law of sin in our flesh, and the desires of the inward which delights in God and His law.

The choice is up to you, to walk according to the flesh, or walk according to the Spirit.

Paul found out he did not have to live a defeated sinful life.

21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man.23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! Romans 7:21-24

Paul
describes his struggle with these issues in Romans 7, which all of us can identify with.

So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Here is what Paul discovered:

You will only serve sin by being led by the flesh, and it's lustful desires.

Romans 8, is where Paul lays out the blueprint for his victory and ours, as we witness first hand him teaching the Church in Rome how to overcome the sinful desires of the flesh.

In verse 1 Paul makes it clear, that those Christians who continue who walk according to the flesh are not free from damnation.

Those who walk according to the Spirit, are not under condemnation.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

• 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Romans 8:5-6

Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. Romans 8:12

13 For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


Read these words for yourself: if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.


There is the answer.
There is the victory.

We are debtors... not to the flesh to live according to the flesh.

We are to crucify the flesh, and by the Spirit put to death the deeds of the body, so that we are not a slave to sin that dwells in our flesh, that we would do what it wants, rather than what the Spirit within us wants.

• Being filled with God's Spirit, and setting our mind on the things of the Spirit, is how we crucify the sinful desires of the flesh.

• Worshiping God, and praying in the Spirit, singing spiritual hymns to the Lord and spending time in His presence, and asking Him to fill us with His Spirit.

• Reading and meditating on God's word, and turning away from the ungodly sights and sounds of this world, is the way to keep the flesh in a crucified state.

• Letting your eyes gaze and ungodly images and listening to ungodly sounds only stimulates the flesh and it's lustful desires.

If you have not received the baptism of the Holy Spirit, then ask the Lord to Baptize you with the Holy Spirit.

9 “So I say to you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10 For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. 11 If a son asks for bread from any father among you, will he give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent instead of a fish? 12 Or if he asks for an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?13 If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask Him!” Luke 11:9-13



JLB

 

[smaller]

All the twisting of scriptures will not change this truth.
JLB

Nor will any dodge balling evade the facts of sin dwelling in the flesh or evil present with Paul or with us. Romans 7:17-21.

People who even "remotely" think these are not facts or that these workings "cooperate" with God in Christ have a very long road of scriptural confusions ahead of them.

 

[JLB]

Nor will any dodge balling evade the facts of sin dwelling in the flesh or evil present with Paul or with us. Romans 7:17-21.

I haven't seen anyone as of yet, deny the fact that we have sin dwelling in our flesh.

It's what we do about it that matters.

You either walk according to the desires of the sinful flesh, by gratifying it's sinful passions.

or

You crucify the flesh, and walk according to the Spirit, like Paul did... deny the flesh from manifesting it's sinful deeds.


What ever you are struggling with, the answer is Jesus, and the power of His Spirit to set you free.


12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief.16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, to God who alone is wise, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.
1 Timothy 1:12-17


Paul placed himself at the top of the list, as the chief of all the sinners that Christ came into the world to save.


JLB

 

[smaller]

I haven't seen anyone as of yet, deny the fact that we have sin dwelling in our flesh.

It's what we do about it that matters.

Whatever we 'do about it' doesn't change what those things do, which is the point.

So, topically, if Jesus brings LIFE, then what does indwelling sin and evil present bring?

That would be 'death and destruction.'

So, all we have to do is see what path someone is on, is to see as they (or we ourselves) measure unto others.

I think the answer is quite obvious, where most stand.

The Golden Rule fell from the churches and their members, long long ago. Honesty about being sinners, shortly thereafter.

 

[JLB]

Whatever we 'do about it' doesn't change what those things do, which is the point.

It most certainly does change whether the sin within your flesh, is allowed to express itself, or the Spirit of God within, expresses the righteousness of God's Kingdom.

Those who yield to sin will becomes it's slave, and in the end doing what sin want's to do.

12 Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts. 13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:12-14


Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

Sin is there, we all know it, however we are not to let sin reign or dominate us, that we should obey it.


Paul makes this clear, before he describes his challenges with sin in his flesh in the next chapter.

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14


It's right there for you to read, in black and white.


The enemy has deceived you into thinking you can't help but to sin, and are helpless against sin expressing it's evil desires through your life.


Paul continues:

15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! 16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? Romans 6:15-16

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness.



Whoever you yield yourself as a slave to obey, you are that ones slave... whether sin, which leads to death, or obedience to the Spirit which leads to righteousness.


Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous. 1 John 3:7

on the other hand:

He who sins is of the devil... 1 John 3:8



JLB

 

[smaller]

It most certainly does change whether the sin within your flesh, is allowed to express itself, or the Spirit of God within, expresses the righteousness of God's Kingdom.

There is no question that sin expresses itself in believers. Look at Paul's statements of facts about this. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19. Do you not see a sinner staring us in the face? An Apostle no less. Are we to be "less" truthful?

These facts are beyond question or denial.

Those who yield to sin will becomes it's slave, and in the end doing what sin want's to do.

I don't see Paul denying that indwelling sin and evil present did operate, openly, in his own flesh, by his own words. The distinction Paul draws is that this is an operation that is NOT HIM i.e. "no more I" that does it. But does evil present and indwelling sin do what these things do? Uh, yeah. There is no denial legitimately available.

Paul makes this clear, before he describes his challenges with sin in his flesh in the next chapter.

No ones indwelling sin and evil present "behaves." That's the point. These things ACTIVELY resist every Word of God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under law but under grace. Romans 6:14

The law remains, every jot and tittle, against evil present and indwelling sin. There is no avoiding this conclusion. The mistake is made when we 'think' these things are obedient, under Grace, lawful, etc. None of this happens. These are described as 'foreign' occupation of the flesh, "NO MORE I," as Paul stated.

When anyone struggles with sin, they fail to realize they are struggling with things that won't behave. It's not possible to make evil present behave. The only "path" out of control that we are given is "division" of ourselves from being "it." Departing from "it." But to say we don't have the warring, the battles, the reality of this internal resistance, makes us liars and hypocrites, and in that WE LOST the battles.

It's right there for you to read, in black and white.

Make whatever claims you want. I see where Paul landed. 1 Tim. 1:15. The chief of sinners, after salvation.

The enemy has deceived you into thinking you can't help but to sin, and are helpless against sin expressing it's evil desires through your life.

What you (and most) fail to perceive is that it is our enemy who sins. I don't expect our enemy will be sinless any time soon. Yes, sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

So where does that enemy lead us? Away from Gods Words. Particularly the Words that reveal and expose that enemy. But more importantly for the purposes of this thread, the enemy leads us AWAY from the GOLDEN RULE, the ROYAL LAW.

And most instead are standing smack dab in the middle of the road that leads to destruction. Sadly, those on that road can't even see it. If they did or were able to see it, they'd get themselves OFF of it. But they can't, because they are "blinded in mind" by the god of this world, who is not them.

The "GOAL" of faith is to drive the MACK TRUCK of the GOLDEN RULE between these two parties:

Acts 26:
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In the above, we see the Captor/captive relationship of the spiritually blinded. They ARE blinded by the "god of this world" just as we were prior to belief. 2 Cor. 4:4. Eph. 2:2.

Is the Golden Rule for the people? Yes. But NOT to the CAPTOR.

And this is where 'everyone' takes a bad left turn in their understandings, which puts them on the WIDE and BROAD road that leads to the destruction of people, RATHER than the quest of DIVISION of people, from their CAPTOR.

Do you understand this? I would hope everyone, every believer, would understand this.

Our task in faith is NOT to run around condemning everyone to eternal hell. But you see, people are not just people, are they? There is a CAPTOR/captive situation with every person.

WE have been "divided." Even in our BLINDNESS to this reality, we are still SAVED. We are to "reign over" the works of the CAPTOR in our own flesh, in the Dominion of God in Christ. But to say we don't have sin and evil present to "REIGN OVER" puts us back in blinded captivity to a very certain extent. When we think, as the blinded unbelievers do, that they are "just them." No, they are not. It is them and the captor. Just as it is "I" and that which I war against.

 

[chessman]

salvation is a process, which begins with a person "repenting".

Are you sure about this? 100% sure that salvation is a process that begind with a person repenting?

 

[th1b.taylor]

Are you sure about this? 100% sure that salvation is a process that begind with a person repenting?

Hello Chessman,
I am. I was saved 1/1/90 singing the New Year in for the drunks. But had I not been repenting (turning the other direction) the Holy Spirit would not have indwelt me. I am just slower than Molasses because it took me better than 23 years to repent of all my sins.

 

[Tony Hyman]

It certainly is, a black hole my friend. I just got home from the hospital having an upper and lower endoscopy. There was a threat of cancer, but the tests showed no cancer or other problems. Now I have to gain back some of the 55 lbs. I lost.

Praise the Lord Chopper.He has by His Grace and Mercy spared you yet another day from cancer.I also had that fear some time back but my weight loss turned out to be be diabetes.I take my medication as prescribed and my weight is normal now .I still go for 6 monthly checkups .I am pleased to still be able to be of useful service to the Lord according to His will and most grateful.That is why we must daily offer ourselves as a "living sacrifice"(Rom 12:1) to God, no matter were we find ourselves.Our days and opportunity are only so long and not a minute more, to help with the "harvest.which is plentiful" (Mt 9:27)

 

[Edward]

There is no question that sin expresses itself in believers. Look at Paul's statements of facts about this. Romans 7:7-13, Romans 7:15, Romans 7:19. Do you not see a sinner staring us in the face? An Apostle no less. Are we to be "less" truthful?

These facts are beyond question or denial.


I don't see Paul denying that indwelling sin and evil present did operate, openly, in his own flesh, by his own words. The distinction Paul draws is that this is an operation that is NOT HIM i.e. "no more I" that does it. But does evil present and indwelling sin do what these things do? Uh, yeah. There is no denial legitimately available.


No ones indwelling sin and evil present "behaves." That's the point. These things ACTIVELY resist every Word of God.


The law remains, every jot and tittle, against evil present and indwelling sin. There is no avoiding this conclusion. The mistake is made when we 'think' these things are obedient, under Grace, lawful, etc. None of this happens. These are described as 'foreign' occupation of the flesh, "NO MORE I," as Paul stated.

When anyone struggles with sin, they fail to realize they are struggling with things that won't behave. It's not possible to make evil present behave. The only "path" out of control that we are given is "division" of ourselves from being "it." Departing from "it." But to say we don't have the warring, the battles, the reality of this internal resistance, makes us liars and hypocrites, and in that WE LOST the battles.



Make whatever claims you want. I see where Paul landed. 1 Tim. 1:15. The chief of sinners, after salvation.


What you (and most) fail to perceive is that it is our enemy who sins. I don't expect our enemy will be sinless any time soon. Yes, sin is of the devil. 1 John 3:8.

So where does that enemy lead us? Away from Gods Words. Particularly the Words that reveal and expose that enemy. But more importantly for the purposes of this thread, the enemy leads us AWAY from the GOLDEN RULE, the ROYAL LAW.

And most instead are standing smack dab in the middle of the road that leads to destruction. Sadly, those on that road can't even see it. If they did or were able to see it, they'd get themselves OFF of it. But they can't, because they are "blinded in mind" by the god of this world, who is not them.

The "GOAL" of faith is to drive the MACK TRUCK of the GOLDEN RULE between these two parties:

Acts 26:
17 Delivering thee from the people, and from the Gentiles, unto whom now I send thee,
18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

In the above, we see the Captor/captive relationship of the spiritually blinded. They ARE blinded by the "god of this world" just as we were prior to belief. 2 Cor. 4:4. Eph. 2:2.

Is the Golden Rule for the people? Yes. But NOT to the CAPTOR.

And this is where 'everyone' takes a bad left turn in their understandings, which puts them on the WIDE and BROAD road that leads to the destruction of people, RATHER than the quest of DIVISION of people, from their CAPTOR.

Do you understand this? I would hope everyone, every believer, would understand this.

Our task in faith is NOT to run around condemning everyone to eternal hell. But you see, people are not just people, are they? There is a CAPTOR/captive situation with every person.

WE have been "divided." Even in our BLINDNESS to this reality, we are still SAVED. We are to "reign over" the works of the CAPTOR in our own flesh, in the Dominion of God in Christ. But to say we don't have sin and evil present to "REIGN OVER" puts us back in blinded captivity to a very certain extent. When we think, as the blinded unbelievers do, that they are "just them." No, they are not. It is them and the captor. Just as it is "I" and that which I war against.

Question:
Regarding Romans 6:14, can one sin without sin having dominion over them?

Dominion means to be Lord over. Now we know that we all sin even after being born again. But that doesn't mean that sin is Lord of our life...

 

[smaller]

Question:
Regarding Romans 6:14, can one sin without sin having dominion over them?

Indwelling sin, Paul termed "no more I." Romans 7:17-20. Does "no more I" do what it does? Assuredly. It is a very deceptive working, that "evil present" with us. IT will claim all manners of lies, of hypocrisy, it WILL insert "lust" into our minds no different than it did with Paul in Romans 7:7-13.

I had my own personal engagements with this matter very early after I was saved. After shedding every "external sin" I was then faced with the internal reality of it, just as Paul was faced with that same reality in Romans 7:7-13.

It took me a VERY VERY long time to understand this matter from the scriptures. But God in Christ gives us understandings, as we are "able" to TAKE IT ON. It is not my call who sees and who does not. I only know what "I" (or as Paul said, not I, but Christ in me) have to "deal with" with this "warring" in my members. Romans 7:23. But I have been well trained by my Maker and His Words. It is a HARD MATTER to put ourselves, in the flesh, UNDER the CONDEMNATION of God in Christ. Romans 8:3. Most of us are only interested in "all the good things" of faith, but NEVER in the condemnation that Christ ALSO demands of His disciples. In condemnation I found MORE LIFE.

Dominion means to be Lord over. Now we know that we all sin even after being born again. But that doesn't mean that sin is Lord of our life...

I can assure you that Christ is the enemy of indwelling sin, and evil present. And in this CONDEMNATION, He Is and remains our ALLY.

No one, in their flesh, can stand under HIS CONDEMNATION. No flesh man can "go there." They will be led to RUN AWAY, as fast as possible, rather than TURN and face our Makers Rightful Condemnation.

We all spend an inordinate time with self justifications. We spend no time at all understanding what this means:

Luke 14:26
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

John 12:25
He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

If any of you read this, and do this, you are standing smack dab in the middle of the WIDE ROAD that leads to destruction:

1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

So, the "lawyer" SEEKING to "justify himself" asks Jesus a question. Who is my neighbor?

Luke 10:

27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?

And in this account, Jesus speaks probably one of the most widely known Bible accounts of all time, that of the GOOD SAMARITAN.

Jesus employs THE THIEVES, also, in this account. He also employs the BLINDNESS, the NON empathy, of both priest and Levite. Who are these? Blinded RELIGIOUS people.

Luke 10
36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

When we CAN'T do this, we ourselves are blind.

Now, let's apply our understanding to the thief/thieves:

Mark 4:
15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Do you 'see' this thief? Do you see THE FALLEN, as Jesus sees them? As Paul sees them? As STOLEN from by the "god of this world" blinding them by THEFT?

2 Corinthians 4:
4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Is it not "our job" to SHOW MERCY to the captives? The "stolen from." Why then, rather, do we CONDEMN them? Pass them by? Leaving them laying there, HALF DEAD, on the side of the road?

Listen to how many were THIEVES, according to Jesus:

John 10:8
All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

And how is this so? Because ALL have been STOLEN from, just as the scriptures show us. The "sheep" can't hear because it's "internal theft." When Jesus said ALL that came before me, this also includes SHEEP in the ALL.

No "sheep" heard, until they were called out, and received what? MERCY from God in Christ.

It is US who share in His Mercy and that Mercy of Him is to be given by us, to others. NOT condemnation. IF we observe the "state of the fallen, the blinded, the prisoners, those stolen from, the captives, what do we see? We SHOULD perceive the THIEF also. Their CAPTOR. But no, we just blindly see some person. This is not how Jesus Sees.

IF we seek condemnation, then put our own flesh, with indwelling sin, and evil present with us, under the RIGHTFUL condemnation of God in Christ. Roman 8:3.

We're far more apt to show Mercy, when we see ourselves "accurately" by the Light of His Words. And we will then see others CLEARLY, and we will see them as they should be seen. As blinded by the "god of this world" CAPTIVES.

We have this huge BEAM stuck in our own eye call "hypocrisy." And it can be set in print, and believers still can't see what the beam is:

Matthew 7:5
Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Believers, to this day, will read the above and say, what is the beam? what is the beam? when the beam is staring them right in the EYE.