Why America is MIA in the End Times

[Kathi]

Here is something to think about, but I'm going into hiding after I post it so please don't me. It's only something to think about and sorry for the length!!!

Revelation 13

Earth Beast with Two Horns like a Lamb, Prediction of another Church and State system in America.

Revelation 13:11 - And I beheld another beast (political power) coming up out of the earth; (Note this beast comes up out of the earth, not seas like previous beasts. Earth represents unpopulated area springs up like plant.) and he had two horns like a lamb (Note: no crowns on horns, this earth beast with lamb like horns has no King. A lamb represents Jesus in Scripture, this earth beast with lamb like horns is a Christian nation, USA) and he spake (Legislates into law) as a dragon. (Satan ways of force, by legislation)

Earth Beast speaks like the dragon (Satan) to speak it to legislate into power. Dragon is Wroth with the woman and makes war on Remnant of God’s people. Rev 12:17

Revelation 13:12 - And he (USA) exerciseth all the power of the first beast (First sea beast was a Papal church and state domination) before him, (meaning previous sea beast) and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first sea beast, (Act of worshiping of the Papal church and State domination) whose deadly wound was healed. A deadly wound was inflicted on the Papal power in 1798 as Napoleon sent his general Berthier into Rome and captured Pius VI. Napoleon decreed the Papal power dead and decreed no more Popes to be elected. After 1798 the Papal church state system ended temporarily, in 1929 Mussolini returned Rome to the Pope's, Since Rome is gaining its power back it lost prior to 1798 The Papal power is ascending back to power.

Revelation 13:13 - And he (USA) doeth great wonders, (Miracles) so that he maketh fire (nuclear weapons and explosions) come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. (Revelation 9:7-10 describing army tanks and Black Hawk helicopters)

Revelation 13:14 - And he (USA) deceiveth them that dwell on the earth, by the means of those miracles (Protestant churches in USA working Miracles) which he had power to do in the sight of the sea beast: (Papal power) saying to them that dwell on the earth , that they should make an image (reflection of past Papal Church and State, Force Religion.) to the sea beast, (sea beast previously mentioned, Papal church and state system) which had the wound by a sword, (1798 Papal power temporary ended ) and did live. (Papal power regained, world influence returns)

Image beast is a copy of the sea beast, this takes place when another Christian church and state system forms, public monies given to church activities as occured in Europe.

Image beast a mirror image of the leopard like Sea Beast of Revelation 13 is another church and state system that develops only Christian's dictate the rules world wide. Rev 17:12-14 as 10 kings Protestant leadership give their authority to the Papacy at the end.

Revelation 13:15 - And he (USA) had power (Influence Legislation) to give life (Establish former persecution) unto the image to the beast, (USA Church and State) that the image to the beast (Protestant USA Church and State) should both speak, (Legislation) and cause that as many as would not worship the image (Protestant church and state system with enforced worship in America) should be killed. This predicts a dramatic change in America. Persecution of God’s people for refusing to go along with forced laws of worship. Revelation 17 unites with 10 kings to make war on Gods chosen people.

Revelation 13:16 - And he (USA Church and State power) causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark (mark of Beast, or mark of papal Rome’s power in their right hand, or foreheads: (Note: God also puts a seal in His people's forehead but its not visible, Revelation 14:1)

Revelation 13:17 - And that no man might buy or sell, (USA boycott all refusing to worship the national and world church and state system) save he that had the mark, or the name of he beast, or the number of his name (total count reaches 666 man.

Revelation 13:18 - Here is wisdom, let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: (Papal Power) for it is the number of a man and his number is six hundred threescore and six: 666.

Sounds pretty good to me.At least you are headed in the right direction for these verses.The future........

 

[reba]

Then what satisfaction do you get in going to Got Questions?

ET is not the only subject got questions deals with..

 

[Kathi]

ET is not the only subject got questions deals with..

That is true.

 

[reba]

Having never read a preterist site this might be interesing.. ...Thanks

 

[reba]

So far i am not empressed with the site I will read some more...

 

[for_his_glory]

preterism sites often do that. what in glory posts about the rcc is the older from of preterism and can be found on that page.

I'm not a preterist, but It is an older form in what I do post as shadows of the old becoming our reality in that of history repeating itself as in the future events that will take place before and after that of Christ return. It's not the Catholic Church, but only that of Papal Rome authority that had the deadly wound, but is being revived again in it's diplomatic and political power.

 

[jasonc]

I'm not a preterist, but It is an older form in what I do post as shadows of the old becoming our reality in that of history repeating itself as in the future events that will take place before and after that of Christ return. It's not the Catholic Church, but only that of Papal Rome authority that had the deadly wound, but is being revived again in it's diplomatic and political power.

you are preterist in that you don't use matthew 24 to support a trib. that is the earliest form of that.some say that chapter is fulfilled in part or fully.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html
notice the naming here, partial preterist.

 

[for_his_glory]

you are preterist in that you don't use matthew 24 to support a trib. that is the earliest form of that.some say that chapter is fulfilled in part or fully.

http://www.preteristarchive.com/PartialPreterism/index.html
notice the naming here, partial preterist.

I do not support a pretrib rapture theory as when I read all of Matthew 24 it starts out as the disciples asking three question, when shall these things be, what are the signs of thy coming and of the end of the world. From vs. 4-31 Jesus explains those events that will come first. From vs. 32-35 Jesus says This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled and that heaven and earth will pass away. This present heaven which is atmosphere and this present earth has to be renewed or another would would become incorruptible in order for the new heaven and new Jerusalem to be ushered down from Heaven
where God sits on His Throne. Now, further down in vs. 36 says But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Not even Jesus knows when the Father will send Him back, but that it will be like as in the days of Noah in vs. 37. When Jesus made that statement in vs.34 about This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled He meant that very generation as it could have very well came right after He ascended since He did not know when the Father would send Him back. All those signs and warnings Jesus gave those disciples while sitting on the Mt of Olives have escalated through all the generations from the time of His ascension up to our present time and until the end of this world. Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun is darkened, the moon shall not give her light and the stars will fall and the powers of heaven shall be shaken and then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other, vs. 27-31

 

[for_his_glory]

I'm not a preterist, but It is an older form in what I do post as shadows of the old becoming our reality in that of history repeating itself as in the future events that will take place before and after that of Christ return. It's not the Catholic Church, but only that of Papal Rome authority that had the deadly wound, but is being revived again in it's diplomatic and political power.

This is one of the sites I use about Papal Rome that I found many years ago.
http://aloha.net/~mikesch/antichrist.htm
The Catholic Origins of Futurism and Preterism - Customer Portal

 

[jasonc]

im sorry that is a type of preterism, adam Clarke says similar stuff. besides if this generation was also just that generation then they didn't die. because all of it didn't come to pass. I don't take the new Jerusalem literally. if it is then well when I leave the city, where do I go? the lost and damned are outside that city.

 

[for_his_glory]

im sorry that is a type of preterism, adam Clarke says similar stuff. besides if this generation was also just that generation then they didn't die. because all of it didn't come to pass. I don't take the new Jerusalem literally. if it is then well when I leave the city, where do I go? the lost and damned are outside that city.

I've heard of Adam Clarke, but know nothing of him or what he has written. If preterism means things that will come in the future with certain parts of history repeating itself then maybe I am, IDK as I don't get into titles.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

After Jesus said the end is not yet in vs. 6 he proceeds to show them from vs.7-31 future things which will come before the Father sends Him back as the angels gather up those who are still alive or have died in Christ and have endured all these things including those things revealed to John in Revelations. No, these things did not come to pass yet in their time as Jesus had to ascend back to the Father first and then began the troubles/tribulations as many of the disciples and even those today have/will die a martyr's death until Jesus returns. These tribulations have been on the increase ever since the first Church (we who are in Christ being called a Christian,Acts 11:26) was established in the great commission of Matthew 28:18-20. If one truly thinks about it hasn't it always been Satan/dragon who gives the beast, Papal Rome, it's power, Rev 13:2, that has always persecuted those who are in Christ as even before Paul's conversion persecuted the Christians to death. Rev 13:3, 12 that deadly wound has been healed and the beast out of the earth is on the move for he knows his time is short, but yet those who lack understanding can not see what is right before them.

 

[jasonc]

I've heard of Adam Clarke, but know nothing of him or what he has written. If preterism means things that will come in the future with certain parts of history repeating itself then maybe I am, IDK as I don't get into titles.

Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

After Jesus said the end is not yet in vs. 6 he proceeds to show them from vs.7-31 future things which will come before the Father sends Him back as the angels gather up those who are still alive or have died in Christ and have endured all these things including those things revealed to John in Revelations. No, these things did not come to pass yet in their time as Jesus had to ascend back to the Father first and then began the troubles/tribulations as many of the disciples and even those today have/will die a martyr's death until Jesus returns. These tribulations have been on the increase ever since the first Church (we who are in Christ being called a Christian,Acts 11:26) was established in the great commission of Matthew 28:18-20. If one truly thinks about it hasn't it always been Satan/dragon who gives the beast, Papal Rome, it's power, Rev 13:2, that has always persecuted those who are in Christ as even before Paul's conversion persecuted the Christians to death. Rev 13:3, 12 that deadly wound has been healed and the beast out of the earth is on the move for he knows his time is short, but yet those who lack understanding can not see what is right before them.

preterism has shades, so much so that Justin martyr can be considered a preterist and a futurist in that he is pre mil.the reformers believed that the rrc was the ac. I don't but that isn't what this topic is. I can address that if I so choose and not at present do I want too. I have uncle cy's doctrine to rail against.

 

[for_his_glory]

preterism has shades, so much so that Justin martyr can be considered a preterist and a futurist in that he is pre mil.the reformers believed that the rrc was the ac. I don't but that isn't what this topic is. I can address that if I so choose and not at present do I want too. I have uncle cy's doctrine to rail against.

It's all in learning how to Spiritually discern that of what you read and hear, especially when it comes to websites. For me I do not believe in a pretrib rapture, but a rapture that comes before God passes final judgment on those who have rejected Christ. I do not believe in a literal 1000 year reign by man counts days, but how God counts them. I do not believe in just one Antichrist for antichrist is anyone who is against Christ as even now there are many in the world. The antichrist, which is Satan, is the one who has created many antichrist and in the end gives power to the beast. I don't believe in a 7 year trib as scripture say we will always have tribulation up to the time of the end of this world as we know it.

Keep in mind that I use to believe in pretrib rapture, millennium reign and all that rapture theory stuff that is being taught until I quit reading the scriptures and started digging deeper in them for truth as the Holy Spirit has revealed these things to me. It's all pretty simple if you read what has actually been written without man adding to it or taking away from it. I might not know all of it as I don't think any of us can exhaust scripture, but do know that of what the Holy Spirit has revealed to me and Gods timing for me to reveal it. Again, I never ask anyone to believe what I say, but to search deeper in scripture for themselves without taking mans word for what it says.

 

[Deborah13]

Mat 24:6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

After Jesus said the end is not yet in vs. 6 he proceeds to show them from vs.7-31 future things which will come before the Father sends Him back as the angels gather up those who are still alive or have died in Christ and have endured all these things including those things revealed to John in Revelations.

Let's see what Matthew 24:31 says....
KJV
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 24:31 and he shall send his messengers [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Who are called messengers in the scriptures? Only heavenly beings? No.
KJV
Mat_11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger [aggelos] before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (speaking of John the Baptist)
Strong's #G32 -
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

What of the trumpet call? When Moses called the congregation together they used a trumpet call. In Israel, we would hear this same trumpet call on the Feast of Tabernacles every year.
After the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple the Jewish wars continued for several years. The Messianic Jews and Gentiles had fled and most did not go back. As messengers they carried the Gospel message in every directions of the wind, all across the world. That trumpet has been echoing across the world ever since gathering God's elect, His chosen, His sheep into His fold.

I do not believe that this will go on forever. Not all things have happened that are spoken of, the bodily resurrection of the dead, the final judgement, etc..

 

[Kathi]

Let's see what Matthew 24:31 says....
KJV
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 24:31 and he shall send his messengers [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Who are called messengers in the scriptures? Only heavenly beings? No.
KJV
Mat_11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger [aggelos] before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (speaking of John the Baptist)
Strong's #G32 -
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

What of the trumpet call? When Moses called the congregation together they used a trumpet call. In Israel, we would hear this same trumpet call on the Feast of Tabernacles every year.
After the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple the Jewish wars continued for several years. The Messianic Jews and Gentiles had fled and most did not go back. As messengers they carried the Gospel message in every directions of the wind, all across the world. That trumpet has been echoing across the world ever since gathering God's elect, His chosen, His sheep into His fold.

I do not believe that this will go on forever. Not all things have happened that are spoken of, the bodily resurrection of the dead, the final judgement, etc..

Where do you stand as far as the end times?What are your ideas of what is going to happen to this earth?When do you think we will go to heaven?

 

[Deborah13]

Where do you stand as far as the end times?What are your ideas of what is going to happen to this earth?When do you think we will go to heaven?

1)Where do I stand as far as end times? End times is a very big subject so I'm not sure I can answer this in a simple way. Can you give specifics such as rapture/resurrection, etc.
2)What is going to happen to this earth? Are you asking what will happen at the very end of time on this earth as we know it? If so, I believe this earth will be either destroyed or restored, not sure which. New heaven and New earth.
3)When do you think we will go to heaven? I believe we/our spirit goes to heaven/to God when we physically die. I believe sometime in the future there will be a bodily resurrection of all the dead and the living, that are in Christ. Paul says that we don't know what we will be like but we will be like Christ.

I have started all over as far as what I believe. Some of the above could be incorrect, I'm still learning. I was dispensational for over 30 yrs. but the more I have learned, especially from the OT, I have had to reexamine those beliefs.
jasonc made a statement about the unsaved outside the city, the New Jerusalem, and a light bulb went on, something that had been bothering me for 2 yrs. He has given me a place to begin to study that scripture.
There's no big hurry, if the Lord comes before I know, it is no matter. We see through a glass darkly. We only know in part but when He comes we will know as we are known.

 

[Kathi]

1)Where do I stand as far as end times? End times is a very big subject so I'm not sure I can answer this in a simple way. Can you give specifics such as rapture/resurrection, etc.
2)What is going to happen to this earth? Are you asking what will happen at the very end of time on this earth as we know it? If so, I believe this earth will be either destroyed or restored, not sure which. New heaven and New earth.
3)When do you think we will go to heaven? I believe we/our spirit goes to heaven/to God when we physically die. I believe sometime in the future there will be a bodily resurrection of all the dead and the living, that are in Christ. Paul says that we don't know what we will be like but we will be like Christ.

I have started all over as far as what I believe. Some of the above could be incorrect, I'm still learning. I was dispensational for over 30 yrs. but the more I have learned, especially from the OT, I have had to reexamine those beliefs.
jasonc made a statement about the unsaved outside the city, the New Jerusalem, and a light bulb went on, something that had been bothering me for 2 yrs. He has given me a place to begin to study that scripture.
There's no big hurry, if the Lord comes before I know, it is no matter. We see through a glass darkly. We only know in part but when He comes we will know as we are known.

So your views are amillennial?Post trib?You believe that these things will happen in the future?

 

[for_his_glory]

Let's see what Matthew 24:31 says....
KJV
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Young's Literal Translation
Mat 24:31 and he shall send his messengers [aggelos] with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his chosen from the four winds, from the ends of the heavens unto the ends thereof.

Who are called messengers in the scriptures? Only heavenly beings? No.
KJV
Mat_11:10 For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger [aggelos] before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. (speaking of John the Baptist)
Strong's #G32 -
From ἀγγέλλω aggellō (probably derived from G71; compare G34; to bring tidings); a messenger; especially an “angel”; by implication a pastor: - angel, messenger.

What of the trumpet call? When Moses called the congregation together they used a trumpet call. In Israel, we would hear this same trumpet call on the Feast of Tabernacles every year.
After the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple the Jewish wars continued for several years. The Messianic Jews and Gentiles had fled and most did not go back. As messengers they carried the Gospel message in every directions of the wind, all across the world. That trumpet has been echoing across the world ever since gathering God's elect, His chosen, His sheep into His fold.

I do not believe that this will go on forever. Not all things have happened that are spoken of, the bodily resurrection of the dead, the final judgement, etc..

Did I ever say all things things have already come to pass in Matthew 24, NO. I said these are the things Jesus is telling the disciples that will happen with correlation to those things of Revelation and if they, those who are in Christ whether they be dead or alive at His coming, and if they shall endure until the end they are the ones who are saved from Gods final wrath at the end of those things that have been told.

My question is what are we to endure and to what will be the end before Christ comes back if we are raptured out of here before some 7 year tribulation begins which once again is never mentioned in scripture. Are not we who are the Bride of Christ His messengers as per our commission in Matthew 28:18-20 is to be taking the Gospel message out into the world until Christ comes and sends His angels out to gather us up to meet Him in the clouds.

 

[Deborah13]

So your views are amillennial?Post trib?You believe that these things will happen in the future?

I haven't taken any position on the millenium.

I don't believe in (a) great tribulation as you do. I believe great tribulation came on Jerusalem and the surrounding Jewish communities with the worst being in 70AD, when the temple and city were destroyed. That this is what Matthew 24 is warning about.
I don't believe in AN or THE Antichrist that will come in the future.
I don't believe that God is going to punish the Jewish people again. The days of vengeance on them for killing the OT prophets, the Messiah, and His messengers, that Jesus speaks of in Matthew 23, has already happened in and around 70AD.
I don't believe there is a gap in the 70 Wks. prophecy. The 70 Wk was fulfilled. It began with the ministry of Christ and ended with the stoning of the Jewish disciple Stephan.
I believe the 1260 days, 1290 days, and the 1335 days fit into this time period.

 

[Deborah13]

Did I ever say all things things have already come to pass in Matthew 24, NO.

Please reread my post. I didn't say that you said that. I really try very hard not to put words in others mouths or assume that I know what they think or believe. I'll ask you.

I only pointed out about aggelos being interrupted as angelic beings, 'angels' in verse 31.
I was only stating what I see in verse 31.
That the Greek word translated in KJV as 'angels' by definition may not be speaking of angelic beings.
That the trumpet call may be the Gospel call that went out in all 4 directions across the earth.

I said these are the things Jesus is telling the disciples that will happen with correlation to those things of Revelation and if they, those who are in Christ whether they be dead or alive at His coming, and if they shall endure until the end they are the ones who are saved from Gods final wrath at the end of those things that have been told.

My question is what are we to endure and to what will be the end before Christ comes back if we are raptured out of here before some 7 year tribulation begins which once again is never mentioned in scripture.

Well I don't believe in the 'rapture' as a separate event from the resurrection so I can't help you there.
Maybe you would be interested in chewing on this for awhile.
The two witnesses in Revelation, is the Law and the Prophets, bearing witness to the Messiah, His righteousness, and His work. He said He fulfilled the Law and the Prophets, and Paul said...
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Are not we who are the Bride of Christ His messengers as per our commission in Matthew 28:18-20 is to be taking the Gospel message out into the world until Christ comes and sends His angels out to gather us up to meet Him in the clouds.

Yes, this is what I am saying, messengers [aggelos] taking the Gospel message out into the world.
That was my point, in verse 31. I don't think that this is talking about the rapture/resurrection. Because that verse doesn't say anything about being 'caught up in the clouds' I don't see why it has to be talking about the rapture/resurrection. Just that God's messengers are gathering His chosen.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels [messengers] with a great sound of a trumpet [the call of the Gospel to gather His congregation], and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.[All across the earth from every direction.]
Just as Moses called the congregation together with a trumpet call in the OT. The trumpets of the Feast of Tabernacles, too.