Why are my Christian neighbours not Christian?

[Corn Pop]

Anyone can be a christian, its as easy as saying i am a christian. Thats why there is a clear difference between a fan of Christ and a follower of Christ. Jesus knows his Church.

 

[reba]

Anyone can be a christian, its as easy as saying i am a christian. Thats why there is a clear difference between a fan of Christ and a follower of Christ. Jesus knows his Church.

Cant delete this one Kiwidan

 

[JoJoe]

People need accept its a relationship with Jesus Christ and not a status or tradition. It would make things so much easier.

 

[evenifigoalone]

People need accept its a relationship with Jesus Christ and not a status or tradition. It would make things so much easier.

True. Though, at the same time, if one is in a relationship with Jesus it will show in their lives. James talks about works being evidence of salvation, and we are told we will know Jesus's followers by their fruit.
That said, it is a bit more complicated than just that, since Christians can fall out of a right standing with God and back into bad and sinful habits. (Whether they are out of salvation or not depends on your doctrine.) So I also tend to think that whether someone is truly "saved" or not is not really something I can judge.

 

[The_Epsicle]

True. Though, at the same time, if one is in a relationship with Jesus it will show in their lives. James talks about works being evidence of salvation, and we are told we will know Jesus's followers by their fruit.
That said, it is a bit more complicated than just that, since Christians can fall out of a right standing with God and back into bad and sinful habits. (Whether they are out of salvation or not depends on your doctrine.) So I also tend to think that whether someone is truly "saved" or not is not really something I can judge.

Whether someone is truly saved is not for us to say, however when we see Christians acting in ways that are not Christlike we should warn them as brothers. Sinful behavior can only end in death and we should warn brothers and sisters who have fallen back into those habits to come back, it isn't just a right we have to judge our brothers in this way but it is a duty that should not be ignored. Again this isn't to say we are declaring them condemned, but we are reminding them that they are called to live as Christ did.

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”" - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

"If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength is small. Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it, and will he not repay man according to his work?" - Proverbs 24:10-12

"My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." - James 5:19-20

"If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand." - Ezekiel 33:8

 

[JoJoe]

True. Though, at the same time, if one is in a relationship with Jesus it will show in their lives. James talks about works being evidence of salvation, and we are told we will know Jesus's followers by their fruit.
That said, it is a bit more complicated than just that, since Christians can fall out of a right standing with God and back into bad and sinful habits. (Whether they are out of salvation or not depends on your doctrine.) So I also tend to think that whether someone is truly "saved" or not is not really something I can judge.

I was talking more on the unbeliever point of view. The problem with the outlook of religion at all is that there is more then one. To me that is one of the things that discredit us as a people of God. Of course we shouldn't judge, and it doesn't mean we are when we let them know the truth. Love never fails and as long as we do it with Love in mind then there is no judgement. It would be only for there own benefit.

Can you think of an easier way to not follow Jesus then claiming to be one.
Personally I know how it is to fall... More times then I would like to admit to be honest. I can say this though; even though I went to church as a youth I never saw; or heard. I was asleep, and for the first time I can do these things. God knows I am ready, I will never step away from him again. I always claimed Christian on paper, checking that box. Now I am glad I can check the no religion box.

 

[SaraBeth]

People need accept its a relationship with Jesus Christ and not a status or tradition. It would make things so much easier.

I agree here! I hear people say oh that Jesus religion. It's not a religion it's a way of life. We chose what life to live and we chose to live our lives through Jesus Christ. Faith in the Lord will lead us the right way

 

[Kenny_ms]

As much as I'd like to disagree with Brother Mike. and I hate to bring this verse up again because people don't seem to like it, but this is exactly where it belongs:

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Is this or is this not what the bible says to do in a case like this?

 

[evenifigoalone]

As much as I'd like to disagree with Brother Mike. and I hate to bring this verse up again because people don't seem to like it, but this is exactly where it belongs:

1 Corinthians 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Is this or is this not what the bible says to do in a case like this?

True, though to be fair I would say the verse is talking about extreme cases where the person in question is undeniably in the wrong. We do little things every day that adds to our sin, and Jesus said that lusting after someone is the same as committing adultery...doesn't mean we need to quit associating with those who do struggle with that, because a good deal of strong Christians do.
Otherwise we would never be able to go to church and fellowship, I think. We are all guilty of at least one of these things secretly, I would guess, since sin starts in the heart rather than in actions.
But going back to my example of the one committing adultery in his heart, compare that to someone who has done the actual act and is not sorry and still calls themselves a Christian. I would argue that the verse would be referring to the latter and not the former.

 

[SaraBeth]

I agree Kenny! If we associate ourself with the people that have this behavior we will, over time start acting like this. My momma explained something to me. She told me it's like a glass of water. We have all our goodness and peace in the glass of water. We allow one drop of food coloring into our water, meaning maybe someone who drinks and parties, then over a short amount of time it spreads.

Even if we don't think they influence us the wrong way, they do. It's that small little idea in our mind every time we are around them. Oh it's just one drink, one party, one lie, one sin.

We aren't of this world, we live on this world. This place is full of worldly sin, it's in the bible not to fall in line with drunks, fornicators, the world.

 

[SaraBeth]

True, though to be fair I would say the verse is talking about extreme cases where the person in question is undeniably in the wrong. We do little things every day that adds to our sin, and Jesus said that lusting after someone is the same as committing adultery...doesn't mean we need to quit associating with those who do struggle with that, because a good deal of strong Christians do.
Otherwise we would never be able to go to church and fellowship, I think. We are all guilty of at least one of these things secretly, I would guess.
But going back to my example of the one committing adultery in his heart, compare that to someone who has done the actual act and is not sorry and still calls themselves a Christian. I would argue that the verse would be referring to the latter and not the former.

Oh yes I agree, we all sin. Some more the others I'm sure but not to judge. Just because someone might struggle doesn't mean to cast them out. I've struggled a lot and I'm glad I wasn't cast out. But if people are clearly just doing whatever they want with no regards then those are the ones to stay away from in my opinion.

 

[Kenny_ms]

True, though to be fair I would say the verse is talking about extreme cases where the person in question is undeniably in the wrong. We do little things every day that adds to our sin, and Jesus said that lusting after someone is the same as committing adultery...doesn't mean we need to quit associating with those who do struggle with that, because a good deal of strong Christians do.
Otherwise we would never be able to go to church and fellowship, I think. We are all guilty of at least one of these things secretly, I would guess, since sin starts in the heart rather than in actions.
But going back to my example of the one committing adultery in his heart, compare that to someone who has done the actual act and is not sorry and still calls themselves a Christian. I would argue that the verse would be referring to the latter and not the former.

I agree 100%. I guess I was assuming these people were what the verse is referring to, maybe not. If those in the Church stopped associating for things like you mention or even out right sin, but sin we quickly repent of and get back on track, then there would be no association at all.

I agree Kenny! If we associate ourself with the people that have this behavior we will, over time start acting like this. My momma explained something to me. She told me it's like a glass of water. We have all our goodness and peace in the glass of water. We allow one drop of food coloring into our water, meaning maybe someone who drinks and parties, then over a short amount of time it spreads.

Even if we don't think they influence us the wrong way, they do. It's that small little idea in our mind every time we are around them. Oh it's just one drink, one party, one lie, one sin.

We aren't of this world, we live on this world. This place is full of worldly sin, it's in the bible not to fall in line with drunks, fornicators, the world.

Yes, and not only are they the food coloring in our water but to not associate with them might tell them something, might not since they have tendencies to live in their own little made up world. Not sure if we should tell them why or not. If they are a neighbor, a friendly reply to their hello and things like that are probably in order, but I'm sure you wouldn't ignore them in cases like that.

There are lots of folks like that, they have deceived themselves and found a way to pretend they have the best of both worlds but I think deep down inside, they know better. Very dangerous thing to do.

 

[The_Epsicle]

We had an incident in my church a few years ago were we called the Elders and voted to excommunicate my Sunday School teacher because he was an alcoholic, it was an ugly situation but it had to be done because he was just not listening. When the Pastor finally told him that he would not be allowed to teach sunday school, attend communion, attend any church functions besides the Divine Service, or be recognized as a member of the Synod that hit him hard and he cleaned up, he was re-communicated a few months later. Excommunication is a very sad thing, but if you love someone you will realize that by not enforcing consequences for poor behavior you are encouraging poor behavior, and at the point we were at in my church, it became an issue of protecting the Church.

 

[iLOVE]

We are hypocrites, we admit that we cannot keep the Law of God but we rely on the saving Grace of Jesus Christ to take the punishment for our unlawfulness. As a Christian we are called to pass judgement on the Church and not on unbelievers, but even so I cannot pass judgement on these people without knowing them and I cannot tell you their train of thought. What you can do is respond to them like they are any other human because that's what they are even if they claim Christ.

We are all hypocrites...AMEN

 

[brother Paul]

We are hypocrites, we admit that we cannot keep the Law of God but we rely on the saving Grace of Jesus Christ to take the punishment for our unlawfulness. As a Christian we are called to pass judgement on the Church and not on unbelievers, but even so I cannot pass judgement on these people without knowing them and I cannot tell you their train of thought. What you can do is respond to them like they are any other human because that's what they are even if they claim Christ.

A hypocrite is someone who professes to be something they are not OR who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs...therefore we are not all hypocrites....I profess my unworthiness (no holier than thou here)....I cannot earn or deserve what Christ has done for me but He has....thus NOT a hypocrite...I do not judge unbelievers I plead with them, reason with them, pray for them...how is that a hypocrite?

 

[iLOVE]

A hypocrite is someone who professes to be something they are not OR who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs...therefore we are not all hypocrites....I profess my unworthiness (no holier than thou here)....I cannot earn or deserve what Christ has done for me but He has....thus NOT a hypocrite...I do not judge unbelievers I plead with them, reason with them, pray for them...how is that a hypocrite?

A hypocrite sometimes places standards on others which they do not keep themselves. Self- righteousness!

 

[JoJoe]

We are all hypocrites...AMEN

Now indeed none of us are perfect but, you have no right to cast this on any one else. If you want to defile yourself and proclaim what Jesus and Paul warns us about then, by all means.

1 PETER 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings.

We are warned about what we profess onto ourselves and others.

MATTHEW 15:16 And he said, Are you, like them, still without wisdom?
17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth goes on into the stomach, and is sent out as waste?
18 But the things which come out of the mouth come from the heart; and they make a man unclean.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, the taking of life, broken faith between the married, unclean desires of the flesh, taking of property, false witness, bitter words:
20 These are the things which make a man unclean; but to take food with unwashed hands does not make a man unclean.

Now to go on and say we are all hypocrites as Christians, is quite the judgement itself.

1 JOHN 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 JOHN 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

 

[SaraBeth]

Basically don't point any fingers cause you have about 3 pointing back at you. We all aren't perfect and we all sin. But pointing out everyone else's sins is being hypocritical because we all sin as well.

I've known people that say oh I believe in God, I go to church every week, do charity work, I helped out so and so. It says in the bible that we aren't supposed to boast and brag about what we do to help others. That we will be rewarded by the Lord. When we brag about it then that's our reward. To some people it's a front because they don't want people to know they are sinners like everyone else.

 

[The_Epsicle]

A hypocrite is someone who professes to be something they are not OR who claims or pretends to have certain beliefs about what is right but who behaves in a way that disagrees with those beliefs...therefore we are not all hypocrites....I profess my unworthiness (no holier than thou here)....I cannot earn or deserve what Christ has done for me but He has....thus NOT a hypocrite...I do not judge unbelievers I plead with them, reason with them, pray for them...how is that a hypocrite?

Now indeed none of us are perfect but, you have no right to cast this on any one else. If you want to defile yourself and proclaim what Jesus and Paul warns us about then, by all means.

1 PETER 2:1 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings.

We are warned about what we profess onto ourselves and others.

MATTHEW 15:16 And he said, Are you, like them, still without wisdom?
17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth goes on into the stomach, and is sent out as waste?
18 But the things which come out of the mouth come from the heart; and they make a man unclean.
19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, the taking of life, broken faith between the married, unclean desires of the flesh, taking of property, false witness, bitter words:
20 These are the things which make a man unclean; but to take food with unwashed hands does not make a man unclean.

Now to go on and say we are all hypocrites as Christians, is quite the judgement itself.

1 JOHN 4:20 If a man say, I love God, and hateth his brother, he is a liar: for he that loveth not his brother whom he hath seen, how can he love God whom he hath not seen?
1 JOHN 4:21 And this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.

Google definition:
hy·poc·ri·sy
həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

I am sure that others may have a slightly different idea of hypocrisy but this is what I was referring to, to all unbelievers we appear to be hypocrites since we have the Law(moral standards) but we cannot follow the Law(because we've all sinned) and I say that we don't push aside this definition, but rather we should embrace it!

"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - Romans 7:15-25 ESV

If we agree with the Law that it is Holy and good but we do not follow it to the letter, we appear to be hypocrites to outsiders. With the recent focus on homosexuality I've decided that I will no longer view this as an insult but I will take it on as my identity. I am a hypocrite since I believe the Law is good and I cannot keep it, but I am saved through the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ who died to save hypocrites like me. So yes, I am calling every Christian a hypocrite because every Christian is a hypocrite as far as the Law is concerned:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." - 1 John 1:8 ESV

To say that my definition is judgemental and not loving I'll remind everyone that as Christians we are called to judge our brothers according to 1 Corinthians 5:12. If there is a single Christian here who follows the Law perfectly and does not sin then I will concede that you are not a hypocrite, however since Jesus isn't here I feel safe to say we're all hypocrites as far as the Law is concerned.

 

[SaraBeth]

Google definition:
hy·poc·ri·sy
həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

I am sure that others may have a slightly different idea of hypocrisy but this is what I was referring to, to all unbelievers we appear to be hypocrites since we have the Law(moral standards) but we cannot follow the Law(because we've all sinned) and I say that we don't push aside this definition, but rather we should embrace it!

"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - Romans 7:15-25 ESV

If we agree with the Law that it is Holy and good but we do not follow it to the letter, we appear to be hypocrites to outsiders. With the recent focus on homosexuality I've decided that I will no longer view this as an insult but I will take it on as my identity. I am a hypocrite since I believe the Law is good and I cannot keep it, but I am saved through the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ who died to save hypocrites like me. So yes, I am calling every Christian a hypocrite because every Christian is a hypocrite as far as the Law is concerned:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." - 1 John 1:8 ESV

To say that my definition is judgemental and not loving I'll remind everyone that as Christians we are called to judge our brothers according to 1 Corinthians 5:12. If there is a single Christian here who follows the Law perfectly and does not sin then I will concede that you are not a hypocrite, however since Jesus isn't here I feel safe to say we're all hypocrites as far as the Law is concerned.

Well said!