Why are my Christian neighbours not Christian?

[HBEtechnician]

Anyone can be a christian, its as easy as saying i am a christian. Thats why there is a clear difference between a fan of Christ and a follower of Christ. Jesus knows his Church.

Yes anyone can have the truth, but not many have purpose.

 

[evenifigoalone]

If you don't have any expectations you don't have any standards, if you don't have any standards you'll keep ending up with worse and worse people.

True, and churches are to hold their members to a standard, especially those in leadership positions. How many of them actually do, I don't know. I know at my church a couple I know have been barred from a leadership position with the youth group because they are living together but not married.
I think probably the biggest reason the Bible tells us to fellowship with other believers is to maintain some level of accountability.

 

[HBEtechnician]

People need accept its a relationship with Jesus Christ and not a status or tradition. It would make things so much easier.

You're right the key to salvation is relationship.

 

[HBEtechnician]

True. Though, at the same time, if one is in a relationship with Jesus it will show in their lives. James talks about works being evidence of salvation, and we are told we will know Jesus's followers by their fruit.
That said, it is a bit more complicated than just that, since Christians can fall out of a right standing with God and back into bad and sinful habits. (Whether they are out of salvation or not depends on your doctrine.) So I also tend to think that whether someone is truly "saved" or not is not really something I can judge.

Like I said "What is the measure of belief?" If you can't prove belief then how can you set any standard to know who has genuine belief or not.

 

[HBEtechnician]

Whether someone is truly saved is not for us to say, however when we see Christians acting in ways that are not Christlike we should warn them as brothers. Sinful behavior can only end in death and we should warn brothers and sisters who have fallen back into those habits to come back, it isn't just a right we have to judge our brothers in this way but it is a duty that should not be ignored. Again this isn't to say we are declaring them condemned, but we are reminding them that they are called to live as Christ did.

"I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people—not at all meaning the sexually immoral of this world, or the greedy and swindlers, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of sexual immorality or greed, or is an idolater, reviler, drunkard, or swindler—not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”" - 1 Corinthians 5:9-13

"If you faint in the day of adversity, your strength is small. Rescue those who are being taken away to death; hold back those who are stumbling to the slaughter. If you say, “Behold, we did not know this,” does not he who weighs the heart perceive it? Does not he who keeps watch over your soul know it, and will he not repay man according to his work?" - Proverbs 24:10-12

"My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins." - James 5:19-20

"If I say to the wicked, O wicked one, you shall surely die, and you do not speak to warn the wicked to turn from his way, that wicked person shall die in his iniquity, but his blood I will require at your hand." - Ezekiel 33:8

But Jesus ate with such people.

 

[HBEtechnician]

I was talking more on the unbeliever point of view. The problem with the outlook of religion at all is that there is more then one. To me that is one of the things that discredit us as a people of God. Of course we shouldn't judge, and it doesn't mean we are when we let them know the truth. Love never fails and as long as we do it with Love in mind then there is no judgement. It would be only for there own benefit.

Can you think of an easier way to not follow Jesus then claiming to be one.
Personally I know how it is to fall... More times then I would like to admit to be honest. I can say this though; even though I went to church as a youth I never saw; or heard. I was asleep, and for the first time I can do these things. God knows I am ready, I will never step away from him again. I always claimed Christian on paper, checking that box. Now I am glad I can check the no religion box.

I still follow Jesus, because he is life's process to resurrect me from the death of tasting good and evil.

 

[HBEtechnician]

Google definition:
hy·poc·ri·sy
həˈpäkrəsē/
noun

1. the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform; pretense.

I am sure that others may have a slightly different idea of hypocrisy but this is what I was referring to, to all unbelievers we appear to be hypocrites since we have the Law(moral standards) but we cannot follow the Law(because we've all sinned) and I say that we don't push aside this definition, but rather we should embrace it!

"For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin." - Romans 7:15-25 ESV

If we agree with the Law that it is Holy and good but we do not follow it to the letter, we appear to be hypocrites to outsiders. With the recent focus on homosexuality I've decided that I will no longer view this as an insult but I will take it on as my identity. I am a hypocrite since I believe the Law is good and I cannot keep it, but I am saved through the love and sacrifice of Jesus Christ who died to save hypocrites like me. So yes, I am calling every Christian a hypocrite because every Christian is a hypocrite as far as the Law is concerned:

"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us." - 1 John 1:8 ESV

To say that my definition is judgemental and not loving I'll remind everyone that as Christians we are called to judge our brothers according to 1 Corinthians 5:12. If there is a single Christian here who follows the Law perfectly and does not sin then I will concede that you are not a hypocrite, however since Jesus isn't here I feel safe to say we're all hypocrites as far as the Law is concerned.

It's only want that makes the law, without want you can live freely without any laws.

 

[HBEtechnician]

There's a difference between sinning and sinning willingly. We all sin but none of us should be doing so willingly.

Yep there are sins that lead to death, and for that you need Jesus.

 

[evenifigoalone]

Like I said "What is the measure of belief?" If you can't prove belief then how can you set any standard to know who has genuine belief or not.

The book of James in the Bible teaches that belief in Jesus will be accompanied by "works"--a believer will have a desire to obey God and this will be proven by their actions. That is not to say that someone isn't a Christian if they don't obey God 100% of the time...because if we were capable of perfect obedience we wouldn't have needed Jesus to die for us in the first place. Humanity would not be where it is.

That said, I do not believe it is up to other believers to decide if someone else is truly a believer or not. We are told to confront another believer who is living in sin (or maybe that's just a church policy guideline, IDR) and to break fellowship if they don't turn from it, but we are not told to define their salvation.

 

[HBEtechnician]

God can said it better than I can.

But we are all like an unclean thing,
And all our righteousnesses are like filthy rags;
We all fade as a leaf,
And our iniquities, like the wind,
Have taken us away. Isaiah 64:6 NKJV

Isaiah 64:6 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
6 We are all dirty with sin.
Even our good works are not pure.
They are like bloodstained rags.
We are all like dead leaves.
Our sins have carried us away like wind.

Thank God for our Lord and savior Jesus Christ!

I have a daughter whom I love with all my mind, heart and soul...but I couldn't say my desire would be to love her as a filthy rag.

Could you?

 

[HBEtechnician]

The book of James in the Bible teaches that belief in Jesus will be accompanied by "works"--a believer will have a desire to obey God and this will be proven by their actions. That is not to say that someone isn't a Christian if they don't obey God 100% of the time...because if we were capable of perfect obedience we wouldn't have needed Jesus to die for us in the first place. Humanity would not be where it is.

That said, I do not believe it is up to other believers to decide if someone else is truly a believer or not. We are told to confront another believer who is living in sin (or maybe that's just a church policy guideline, IDR) and to break fellowship if they don't turn from it, but we are not told to define their salvation.

I'm talking about belief itself, the basis of salvation for all Christians.

Works are irrelevant to the measure of a Christians faith, otherwise you'd be saying works are the measure of ones belief.

 

[evenifigoalone]

I'm talking about belief itself, the basis of salvation for all Christians.

Works are irrelevant to the measure of a Christians faith, otherwise you'd be saying works are the measure of ones belief.

Belief itself is simple, I think. Belief in Jesus and the gospel, His death and resurrection and why He did it. That is how Christianity was taught and spread in the early centuries before the new testament was written.
Works is relevant in a sense because faith without works is dead. But it's not that works justify faith, it's just that works are proof of faith. If someone really believes something and has faith that it's true, they will want to live by it and follow it.

 

[HBEtechnician]

Belief itself is simple, I think. Belief in Jesus and the gospel, His death and resurrection and why He did it. That is how Christianity was taught and spread in the early centuries before the new testament was written.
Works is relevant in a sense because faith without works is dead. But it's not that works justify faith, it's just that works are proof of faith. If someone really believes something and has faith that it's true, they will want to live by it and follow it.

How can something that proves something to be true not justify it at the same time.

 

[evenifigoalone]

How can something that proves something to be true not justify it at the same time.

Poor choice of wording on my part, I guess. How about, works is not a requirement to have faith, but if you have faith you will also have works as a result.

 

[HBEtechnician]

Poor choice of wording on my part, I guess. How about, works is not a requirement to have faith, but if you have faith you will also have works as a result.

I say faith is the only way to deal with a contradictive non absolute, therefore it doesn't require works in the first place to be true to its cause.

 

[WIP]

Yep there are sins that lead to death, and for that you need Jesus.

We need Jesus for all sin.

 

[HBEtechnician]

We need Jesus for all sin.

Only for death mate, and nothing else.

 

[WIP]

Only for death mate, and nothing else.

Help me understand. Could you name a sin that does not lead to death that He did not die for?

 

[HBEtechnician]

Help me understand. Could you name a sin that does not lead to death that He did not die for?

Only when you accept a human faculty (Such as anger or anxiety) as a full positive (Good) or full negative (Evil) do you die, until that time your only being tempted into sin. But if you accept all of your human faculties as either positive or negative, you void your soul for ever.

 

[WIP]

Only when you accept a human faculty (Such as anger or anxiety) as a full positive (Good) or full negative (Evil) do you die, until that time your only being tempted into sin. But if you accept all of your human faculties as either positive or negative, you void your soul for ever.

I still do not understand. Can you provide an example of a sin that does not lead to death.