Why Christians Fail to Receive Healing

[lesjude]

You missed the context of those OP verses entirely. Put them back in the chapter that they came from. Read them within the surrounding verses. Look at what the entire chapter is talking about, instead of cherry picking them to support your ideas.

Which ones? If you are saying a Christian cannot be demonized you are incorrect. When they are cast out healing of both physical and mental illness happens which we have seen many times. It does say "those who believe" will cast them out in Mark 16:17-18. We do. EDITED

 

[lesjude]

As I recall, his disciples could not cast out a demon. Jesus informed them that this could not be accomplished without first fasting and praying. In short, they could have had faith to move mountains, but without fasting they would never accomplish their goal.

I don't pretend to know all the ins and outs of spiritual matters, but I can tell you it's a dangerous thing to think you have all the answers.

True. The ones I have I have, have lived for 35 years and am pressing in for more.

Unfortunately, all the apostles were martyred save one, so we have no such evidence of them dying by anything other than "natural causes". However, I can cite the OT where David was praying for his infant to live. God said no, it was his punishment and no amount of prayer could have changed that, yet another example of what I'm talking about.

Under the law David should have been put to death along with Bathsheba. He received grace. God clearly told him what would happen in this specific case and why. NT Christians are under grace not law. If we are chastened for sin then repentance bring TOTAL forgiveness and total healing.

I also remember Jesus healing a blind man. If you only went by the example of David's infant dying, you might assume the man in question sinned as well or his parents which was the reason he was blind. Jesus said neither. He said that he had been made blind specifically for the very purpose of being healed that very second in order to show God's glory.

God did NOT make him blind. Satan did. God was glorified by healing and Satan defeated. Healing is promised in the NT for the same reasons.

So what if his parents had had "faith" to heal but got no response for some 30 or 40 years? What would someone like you tell them? Would you have told them that they don't have enough faith? If so, they would no doubt begin to wonder if they had enough faith for salvation as well and perhaps lost faith altogether.

The Jews had lost the truth of divine healing for their apostasy. The parents could not believe. The church today has lost that truth as well or most of that truth. The parents did not have faith for salvation because they denied Christ. The son received salvation because of his healing which defeated the religious forces and Satan again.
I have ministered to many people that were in total ignorance of what was available to them by simple faith. Most were quite interested, were not offended by my explanation of what Jesus would do, and received what they were told. In fact most were healed/set free as I said in the OP. Pride and religiosity were the issues for most of the ones who did not. Some went on to exercise faith for healing and more of God's promises for themselves and some we never heard from again. edited

 

[Vanguard]

This will be my last post in this thread (to the applause of many I am sure).

If you refuse to use verses within context (what they are really referring to by chapter in the Bible) then I am done with you. Anyone and everyone can and do pick verses out of the Bible and then say "blah blah blah" is what that means or applies to. There is no discussion for you or those like you who continue to do that. One last example...you referenced Mark 16:17-18 and stated that "those who believe" will cast them [sickness, demons, whatever] out.

Now pay attention...

The entire chapter of Mark 16 is the resurrection story. When Mary runs back to the Disciples and tells them that Jesus is alive [resurrected] they refuse to believe it. In verse 14, Jesus appears before them and scolds them for not believing. In verse 15 He tells them to go into the world and spread the gospel (the story of His resurrection and the path to salvation). In verse 16 He tells them the plan for salvation. In verses 17 and 18 (what you took out of context) it is the 11 Disciples that will be speaking in tongues, picking up snakes, can drink poison and be unharmed, that will cure sickness, etc. Jesus is referring to those 11 believers, not the entire body of Christianity. Those 11 will perform those miracles so that others may believe in the resurrection of Jesus. That's it, end of story. No mention of future generations.

That is hermeneutics 101. That is using verses within context. That is what you need to be doing instead of what is in your OP.

I'm out.

 

[wonby1]

The Jews had lost the truth of divine healing for their apostasy. The parents could not believe. The church today has lost that truth as well or most of that truth. The parents did not have faith for salvation because they denied Christ. The son received salvation because of his healing which defeated the religious forces and Satan again.
I have ministered to many people that were in total ignorance of what was available to them by simple faith. Most were quite interested, were not offended by my explanation of what Jesus would do, and received what they were told. In fact most were healed/set free as I said in the OP. Pride and religiosity were the issues for most of the ones who did not. Some went on to exercise faith for healing and more of God's promises for themselves and some we never heard from again. Seldom were we ever "fussed" at.

I understand what you are trying to say, and agree. After all, Jesus could not heal in his own town because they could not see past the boy that grew up there. However, to discount the examples I have provided is also a mistake.

 

[lesjude]

This will be my last post in this thread (to the applause of many I am sure).

If you refuse to use verses within context (what they are really referring to by chapter in the Bible) then I am done with you. Anyone and everyone can and do pick verses out of the Bible and then say "blah blah blah" is what that means or applies to. There is no hope for you or those like you who continue to do that. One last example...you referenced Mark 16:17-18 and stated that "those who believe" will cast them [sickness, demons, whatever] out.

Now pay attention...

The entire chapter of Mark 16 is the resurrection story. When Mary runs back to the Disciples and tells them that Jesus is alive [resurrected] they refuse to believe it. In verse 14, Jesus appears before them and scolds them for not believing. In verse 15 He tells them to go into the world and spread the gospel (the story of His resurrection and the path to salvation). In verse 16 He tells them the plan for salvation. In verses 17 and 18 (what you took out of context) it is the 11 Disciples that will be speaking in tongues, picking up snakes, can drink poison and be unharmed, that will cure sickness, etc. Jesus is referring to those 11 believers, not the entire body of Christianity. Those 11 will perform those miracles so that others may believe in the resurrection of Jesus. That's it, end of story. No mention of future generations.

That is hermeneutics 101. That is using verses within context. That is what you need to be doing instead of what is in your OP.

I'm out.

We have seen all of Mark 16:17-18 except the snakes, and all of Matthew 10:7-8 except the part about the lepers. We have friends and family by marriage who see it all very frequently.EDITED

 

[reba]

One person has this view and backs it with scripture,. Another person has his view and backs it with scripture
Different views don't necessarily make anyone a liar let alone God
... that kind of trash talk weakens a sound argument of which this OP is not.

God controls His healing power we don't. He is in control we are not. Having witnessed His devine healing I find these threads to be a slap in the face to Him.


Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom_9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

We , mankind , do not control the God of all Creation.

 

[lesjude]

One person has this view and backs it with scripture,. Another person has his view and backs it with scripture
Different views don't necessarily make anyone a liar let alone God
... that kind of trash talk weakens a sound argument of which this OP is not.

God controls His healing power we don't. He is in control we are not. Having witnessed His devine healing I find these threads to be a slap in the face to Him.


Rom_9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

Rom_9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

We , mankind , do not control the God of all Creation.

Yes, and He ALWAYS keeps His word and gives His healing mercy to His elect. The Pharaohs do not get it. edited a snarky remark

 

[Guest]

Those 11 will perform those miracles so that others may believe in the resurrection of Jesus. That's it, end of story. No mention of future generations.

Uhh, why would they perform those miracles if the resurrection of Jesus would not impact future generations?? How many times is the word eternal in the Bible. I would think you would know John 3:16

 

[reba]

Rude & snarky remarks will be edited and/or infractions issued.

 

[Deborah13]

If God looked down history and picked the ones that would choose Jesus for salvation it would not be by grace but works. You are saying it is a work i.e. our choosing to receive Jesus. It is NEVER that way. If a sinner did not receive effectual grace he would NEVER choose Jesus by a free will choice. Only the elect chosen before the foundation of the earth receive effectual grace and are drawn by the Holy Spirit and the preaching of the gospel. Sinners choose to keep sinning. The Bible teaches NOTHING else.

Are you saying you believe as in salvation by Calvinism beliefs?

I see Calvinist being able to read John 3:16 in this way -

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that His chosen ones that believe in Him....Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds to others? If they are chosen in the Calvinist view of predistination, would there be the clause, if you will, of that believe in Him (as if they had a choice).

But lets stay on topic the subject has been beat to death in these threads.

 

[Deborah13]

What's the title say in Romans 10 Vanguard, in your version NASB..
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 10&version=NASB

There were no title pages in the original text but that's besides the point. If one is going to teach about faith to healed then they need to use scriptures that is at least about healing. This portion of scripture is about salvation.
Some can bounce all over the place in the Bible and make almost any teaching appear true. In fact, that is just what iesjude was saying, that WoF's teaching on the atonement is heresey. Well I agree they are pretty all over the place in order to come up with that teaching. But he has done the same thing. I'm still reading trying to find a scripture about healing that I can respond to.

 

[Guest]

There were no title pages in the original text but that's besides the point. If one is going to teach about faith to healed then they need to use scriptures that is at least about healing. This portion of scripture is about salvation.
Some can bounce all over the place in the Bible and make almost any teaching appear true. In fact, that is just what iesjude was saying, that WoF's teaching on the atonement is heresey. Well I agree they are pretty all over the place in order to come up with that teaching. But he has done the same thing. I'm still reading trying to find a scripture about healing that I can respond to.

Hi Deborah, Blessings. No I meant the title of the chapter where it says 'The Word of Faith Brings Salvation' right above the word Brethren. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans%2010&version=NASB - Vanguard stated..

Romans chapter 10 is not talking about faith healing.

Is salvation not healing?

 

[Deborah13]

First off, in 2 Corinthians 7:1 Paul is not talking about sickness or demon possession. He is pouring out his feelings throughout the entire chapter, and speaking of God comforting them through depression, fear and sorrow and showing how God's affection can lead one to repent and gain peace. The only "sickness" it could even be referred to is a mental state.

I agree, but when I see the word "therefore" I back up to the scriptures before the 'therefore' as well. Paul was telling them the had no part with unbelievers. Therefore,...filthness of the flesh and spirit, I see as actual flesh behaviors and an mental attitude.

Chapter 9 of John does tell a tale of healing a blind man, but that is not the theme behind the chapter. In context, Jesus healed a man who was blind from birth, gave him sight, and through that miracle He was showing the Pharisees that they were "blind" to what God was trying to accomplish through Jesus. It has nothing to do with glory.



Romans chapter 10 is not talking about faith healing. It is talking about the righteousness of man, finding salvation and HEARING (not healing) the words of Christ.

Agree with both 9 and 10

 

[Guest]

Deborah, how can you can agree with his John Chapter 9 and Romans 10 explanation after what i just posted. Now I'm confused. Does his healing not bring glory to God?? And Romans 10 IS talking about Faith healing!! It states it right there in the title! Is salvation not healing??

 

[lesjude]

Are you saying you believe as in salvation by Calvinism beliefs?

No, I believe what the Bible teaches on the issue. Calvin happens to have it right. Study it out for yourself.

I see Calvinist being able to read John 3:16 in this way -

For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that His chosen ones that believe in Him....Do you realize how ridiculous that sounds to others? If they are chosen in the Calvinist view of predistination, would there be the clause, if you will, of that believe in Him (as if they had a choice).

It actually reads this way in the Greek:
John 3:16

New King James Version (NKJV)

16 For God loved the world so He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
The ONLY sinners according to scripture who will believe are are those who are given effectual grace or the effectual call of the gospel. A sinner will NEVER make a free will choice to stop sinning by his own choice. The only ones who get effectual grace will choose Jesus. The rest hear only the general call and of course reject it.
Here it is effectual grace in Christ's words:
John 6:65-66
New King James Version (NKJV)

65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.â€
66 From that time many of His disciples went back and walked with Him no more.

But lets stay on topic the subject has been beat to death in these threads.

Yes, let's.

 

[lesjude]

Hi Deborah, Blessings. No I meant the title of the chapter where it says 'The Word of Faith Brings Salvation' right above the word Brethren. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans 10&version=NASB - Vanguard stated..



Is salvation not healing?

All please look up the NT word save-sozo in a good Bible dictionary plus see how and where it is used in the NT. It will clear up much confusion.

 

[Deborah13]

If God looked down history and picked the ones that would choose Jesus for salvation it would not be by grace but works. You are saying it is a work i.e. our choosing to receive Jesus. It is NEVER that way. If a sinner did not receive effectual grace he would NEVER choose Jesus by a free will choice. Only the elect chosen before the foundation of the earth receive effectual grace and are drawn by the Holy Spirit and the preaching of the gospel. Sinners choose to keep sinning. The Bible teaches NOTHING else.

If salvation comes to only those of effectual grace why would you be in here teaching healing to ALL when you believe that only those of effectual grace are saved so only those that believe that could have the faith to be healed anyway.
Or is it we are all saved by this effectual grace and faith so than healing faith would also be effectual should it not?

 

[lesjude]

If salvation comes to only those of effectual grace why would you be in here teaching healing to ALL when you believe that only those of effectual grace are saved so only those that believe that could have the faith to be healed anyway.
Or is it we are all saved by this effectual grace and faith so than healing faith would also be effectual should it not?

That does not mean disciples stop preaching and teaching to everyone the gospel which is faith and doing what Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 say. Jesus healed and delivered many who ended up in the pit I am quite sure. I have seen people healed who still have not received salvation. No one can ever say a professing Christian is not saved who is living in sin or has no fruit. Nor say God will not save the worst of sinners. Please read this:
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49304&p=753119#post753119

 

[Guest]

Chapter 9 of John does tell a tale of healing a blind man, but that is not the theme behind the chapter. In context, Jesus healed a man who was blind from birth, gave him sight, and through that miracle He was showing the Pharisees that they were "blind" to what God was trying to accomplish through Jesus. It has nothing to do with glory.

Beware the "false prophets."

Who do you think Jesus is praying too in order to perform miracles and healings in the first place. Where is he getting his power from? God the Father! But God the Father doesn't get any glory even though he is the one that's actually performing the miracles and healings through Jesus?? Hmmm....

Luke 23:34 - “Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing.â€

 

[Mitspa]

That does not mean disciples stop preaching and teaching to everyone the gospel which is faith and doing what Mark 16:17-18 and Matthew 10:7-8 say. Jesus healed and delivered many who ended up in the pit I am quite sure. I have seen people healed who still have not received salvation. No one can ever say a professing Christian is not saved who is living in sin or has no fruit. Nor say God will not save the worst of sinners. Please read this:
http://www.christianforums.net/showthread.php?t=49304&p=753119#post753119

What? That makes no biblical sense! and avoids the point,
which seems to be the best defense your doctrines?

In Him we have no sin and cannot sin, he who sins has not seen Him nor known Him.

As He is, so are we in this world.

Your doctrines are contrary to the gospel.